DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum offensive linemen

Vers - u can't assign blame? .. Why not?

Last I looked it's not Mack's, Shwartz or gipsons job to MAKE THE BROWNS BETTER ,..

That task falls squarely on the shoulders of the HARVARD BOYS ...

Mack, Gipson ... Not sure the HB's had a shot with them .. SHWARTZ THOUGH ... Are u kidding me?? ..

He came back to accept the initial offer and the HB's decided to stick there noses in the air like those from H tend to do and tell him ... NAAAAA ... That offers no good anymore .. They tried to SAVE A FEW BUCKS and now we have a COMPLETE AND UTTER MESS ..

WE HAD NO BACK UP PLAN and they lost Shwartz cause they decided to DRAW A LINE IN THE SAND ,,

The RT mess is 100% ON THEM ... And I see no gray area there ..

Shwartz is playing on a 1-0 team and we have NO RIGHT TACKLE!!!!

and Shwartz took less from KC after the FO told him there initial offer was no longer valid .. This one is very BANNERESQUE in that they exhibited ZERO basic knowledge of the situation ....

We have no VIABLE RT OPTION ... We have 50 BILLION IN CAP SPACE ... But hey .. LETS DRAW A LINE IN THE SAND cause we got him where we want him ..

NICE JOB GUYS ..

And this has MONEYBALL WRITTEN ALL OVER IT!!!!

KC looked like a hot mess until Keenan Allen blew out his knee and the Chargers players felt their season was effectively over.

We signed Bailey and drafted two tackles. It sounds like we had 3 back up plans to Schwartz. We didn't lose because of our RT.

Most Harvard people have their noses too into books or whatever their focus is to have time to put their noses in the air.

Sadly the funniest part of your post to me was the "Now we have a complete and utter mess" part. We've had pretty much an utter mess since '99.

I have as much hope for the future now as I have had in recent memory. That's not really saying much, and there is plenty of time for it to go away.

We lost an over 30 center, a solid RT, and an oft injured safety. Could we use them this season? Most likely we'd be improved. Would we win more games this season with them? One, maybe two, but I still don't think we'd see the playoffs. We'd probably be over paying them, and have an inordinately large portion of our salary cap tied up in the OL. I'm also not sure Mitchell is the best fit in a power running scheme.

Your post is full of more holes than his, and his had plenty.



What does this have to do w/the Browns?




All 3 got beat out by a back-up guard.

And where did he say we lost because of our RT. I got on you about that earlier and you just did it again. Lame.




I take it you haven't talked to too many intellectuals.




Mack will play for several more years.

Schwartz is better than any RT we have.

Gipson is 26 and you are exaggerating his injury history. Btw.......Jax loves him.



Absurd logic. It's not just about this year. It's about keeping your good players and building on your strengths. Get rid of the garbage and keep the good players. I am so sick of hearing that dumb argument.




Neither is Joe Thomas. Heck, even Bitonio isn't.

Did you see a power running scheme last week? LMAO

And why in the hell would we want to switch to that anyway? The best we had was w/Shanny and his ZBS. It utilized the strengths of our offensive linemen. God forbid we develop a scheme that fits the talent we have. Shoot............that would take creativity and good coaching. Why do that when you can just say............"we gotta do it my way!"

I'm not gonna quote because it becomes a giant mess with multiple quotings.

He mentioned Schwartz being on a 1-0 team. For 3/4s of the game they looked as inept as we did. He brought up KC, so I responded to that idea.

Re no back-up plan True they are behind a guy who was a backup guard, but that doesn't mean there was no back-up plan. They strike me as planners.

He constantly "screamed" we have NO RT. I took that to mean he thought RT was a reason we lost. I didn't notice Pasztor for most of the game, which is a good thing for a lineman.

I've talked to plenty of intellectuals and got along just fine. I suppose I could see how one would feel like they were being looked down on as the conversation went over their heads. (Possibly unnecessary, but being called dumb and lame makes me grouchy)

For someone who claims not to stereotype people, you seem to be pigeon holing "intellectuals."

Mack will play for several more years? Perhaps, but at a level commensurate with his contract?

Schwartz is better than any RT we have here? Probably, but i don't think $5.5 million per year better, and I think Coleman has the potential to be a better run blocker.

Gibson and my exaggerating his injury history? He played all 16 games once out of four years.

My logic is absurd? You don't think we'd have more wins if we had those players? You also don't think we'd have the most money tied into our O-Line if we had signed those players? Where's the absurdity?

Re the power blocking scheme Hal Hunter coached a power blocking system while he was in San Diego. Hue liked to run power with Jeremy Hill.

Hue quote-"The preseason is all about hardening our knuckles as an offense because we don't get a lot of time to bang on our own guys in practice," he said. "It'll be an opportunity to go out and play some real live football and establish our identity as a power running team with the threat of making big plays downfield."
link

I saw a mess on the field, but that doesn't mean power running isn't a part of the plan and that fact may have impacted our FA decisions.

Your mind is closed. Good luck w/that.

And Grimm............it's comments like this that make me dislike you as a person:



Your insults do not make you more intelligent than I am. I do not insult your intelligence, but when you insult mine......later.

You called me Lame, absurd, and dumb. I responded with a toned down response not even directed at any particular person and qualified it with the parenthesis after. If you felt the shoe fit, I'm really not that sorry about it.

You attack people and then claim complete innocence. It's why I blocked you in the first place. You make things personal and then wonder why people respond angrily.

If you could stick to football, you'd be my favorite poster. You just can't seem to do that for long.

So, block me again so I don't have to read your crap.

Oh, I know you won't stop.....LOL

Look, I agree w/you that the FO failed to get the job done when it comes to Mack, Schwartz, and Gipson. However, there are more than likely several factors that contributed to them all leaving and none of us really know the exact reason[s] why and/or if is the same w/each guy.

Bottom line is the FO failed there, but that does not mean the FO sucks. I am hoping that they get at least 3-4 years here. I am so sick of changing regimes and constantly revamping the roster.

j/c

For what it's worth...I was watching an HBO show called 'Ballers' last night. One of the agents told a player in the draft (paraphrased) "It could be worse, it could be the Cleveland Clowns. You don't want anything to do with that Factory of Sadness."

As we discuss the failure of the Browns to sign/retain free agents, it should be remembered how this team is viewed by the rest of the NFL. Players generally don't want to play here if they have a choice. Top FA don't want to sign here, and many of the good players we drafted want out. Until we can change that perception, whoever is in the FO will be at a disadvantage when it comes to signing/retaining FA talent.

Yeah, it's funny how people can even come close to upholding this FO on the Schwartz deal.

The popular line is that they had "moved on" in regards to Schwartz. Moved on to what? Who is this RT they had waiting in the wings?

When Schwartz went to sign the deal they had already offered, they decided to play hard ball rather than honor their own offer. That IS pulling the deal no matter what anyone says.

People can't seem to see that they decided to clean house and re-build. Schwartz was just a foolish part of that process.

100% on all counts Pit ...

I keep seeing "they moved on" .. I kept thinking ... Moved on .. Moved on to what? .. To the back up RG? .. That's what we moved onto ..

We moved onto a pile of CRAP is what we moved onto ..

If that's our definition of "moving on" we better not ever move on from another player again ...

And what are we going to do if our RG goes down? .. We have no back up RG right now .. ..

VERS - Please address ALL the holes in my post ... U can't throw that out and then just ignore it ..

those two fellas we moved on from are no longer here. we should be giving the two new rookies time to grow. Schwartz is on a 1-0 team sure but they were going to be 1-0 without him so not sure what the argument is there?

The Browns are banking on Coleman at RT. He had surgery on his knee in the offseason which caused him to miss all the OTA's. They are easing him into the practice structure due to his knee. He has shown great improvement and is solidly in the equation for being a starter at some point this season. They know Pasztor is inconsistent and were never looking at him to be the long-term answer at RT.

To me our top priority in this next draft is a STUD RT. I mean is there a point in drafting a QB when we can't keep him healthy?

We need a RG too. Grecco has been allowing hits today as well.

They need time together. Hopefully Coleman can take over RT once he's up to full speed and Pasztor can maybe kick inside.

Greco had another outstanding game. On the other hand, Erving sucks ass!

I thought that Greco played really well, especially given that he is surrounded by a so-so, inexperienced guy at C, and a so-so RT.

He had an excellent game. I thought Pazstor played fairly well.

Erving is beyond pathetic.

so pissed that two weeks in a row our o-line has gotten our QB's taken out games back to back!!

I sure am glad that we pulled our offer to Schwartz.

Right now we could have Greco moved to C, Pasztur at RG, and Schwartz ar RT. That would be a really good Center right OL.

Griffin was injured on a scramble.

Yeah, but now that Erving is at his natural position, we have no worries there. All of his problems with technique, lack of strength and being out of shape are because we had him out of position.

yeah, there's one thing that nobody can dispute: Josh McCown is a tough dude and a good leader.

The injuries didn't start there.. Lets ignore that though.

The biggest problem Hue is starring at is the Loss of a whole season before it even gets off the ground ! No one believes that Cody is anywhere near ready ( that watched pre season) .. Many of us were scratching our heads at the draft pick to begin with .. Hogan just got here , so what are the REAL options ?? Chance to win some games with the schedule we have ? BLEAK ..

As usual we can start evaluating the College players we believe will becoming out , NEXT YEAR !

I think what keeps me from posting more is the excuses ( form poor performance year in and out ) that shows up on the board ..

Josh was getting destroyed out there. Gotta give it to him, he was under fire but he didn't quit.

Much respect. But dang, seeing him take a few of them hits, ouch. I think, and I won't get into it - but if we had a chance to keep Mitchell, we should've.

I think Pazstor played pretty good yesterday. Erving, on the other hand, is one of the worst centers I have ever seen.

Had we had kept Scwartz, and not to beat a dead horse (although I know I already am) would enable us to play Patzor at guard, Greco at center and I think our protection with that personnel would be x2 better.

Erving should be benched. I hope he recovers but, sadly, I'm more encouraged by them having to shift around the line in his absence. I think Erving needs another offseason to improve before I'm ready to fully say get him outta here.

John Greco, Alvin Bailey will fill new roles on Browns offensive line in wake of injury to Cameron Erving

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/09/john_greco_alvin_bailey_will_f.html

BEREA, Ohio – The Browns' new-look offensive line will have a new look on Sunday.

The latest shakeup comes in the wake of starting center Cameron Erving suffering a pulmonary contusion during Sunday's loss to the Ravens. Erving spent Sunday night in the hospital and was released on Monday morning. That means that right guard John Greco, who played some at center in 2014 after then-starter Alex Mack broke his leg, will slide over one spot.

"Greco will go over and play at center, and (Alvin) Bailey will go play guard," head coach Hue Jackson said on Monday. "I feel good about that combination. Greco has done it in games before so I think we will manage that part pretty well."

If you're concerned that maybe Greco isn't ready for this, he said back in August that playing center has always been in the back of his mind.

"It's always in the back of my mind because that's been our plan the last few years and until I get told otherwise, that's still my plan," Greco said during the team's joint practices in Tampa. "If it happens, I'll be ready."

Monday, it happened.

"Here it is," Greco said, "and I'm ready mentally. This week in practice, I'll get preparation with (quarterback) Cody (Kessler), get the snap timing and everything down and we'll get calls straight. We'll have meetings all week and everything. We'll be ready to go."

Greco, who says he regularly practices snaps with the quarterbacks, said the biggest adjustment for him will be who he's communicating with throughout the game.

"Playing next to the center my whole career and playing center, I'm dialed in mentally and I know what we have to do assignment-wise with the communication," Greco said. "It's just about getting everybody lined up. Instead of communicating with the center and right tackle, I'm communicating with both guard and both tackles. I'll be ready to do that."

As for the man who will take Greco's spot at guard, Bailey came over from Seattle during the offseason. He originally was competing for the starting job at right tackle, a job that eventually went to Austin Pasztor.

"I feel like, for me personally, I felt like this was the best opportunity for me, so that's why I made the decision to come here and be here," Bailey said at the beginning of training camp, "and I was excited that Hue Jackson was the new coach and things like that."

"Alvin's an awesome player," Greco said. "I played next to him in the spring and he and I had great chemistry. I have no doubt that he's going to come in and do an unbelievable job."

Perhaps the biggest benefit for Greco and Bailey is that they aren't being thrown into these positions and this pairing in a game. Bailey was asked to play just four snaps on Sunday against Baltimore after Erving left the game.

"When you're the backup at a position, there's times -- like Alvin didn't get a lot of reps last week at guard and he stepped in there and was able to play his butt off," Greco said. "...That's the thing, when you're the backup or you're the next guy in at a different position, you have to be ready, because they don't care. You can't say, 'I didn't get any reps there.' No one cares. It's just you've got to get the job done, and everyone has that in the back of their minds."

I was wondering what we'd do. thanks. Bailey wasn't good in the preseason, so we'll see

Was hoping we had used that wasted draft pick we spent on QB Kessler and got a nice interior lineman...Our depth is junk

Anyone know how Mack and Schwartz are doing with their new teams?

Both teams are 1-1, and they are both probably enjoying good BBQ.

How are the Rams 1-1 with 9 points through 2 weeks? Almost makes me feel good about our O. Almost...okay, not really.

Browns guard Joel Bitonio placed on injured reserve, 'good chance' he's out for season with midfoot sprain


By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
updated October 14, 2016 at 12:29 PM
LINK

BEREA, Ohio - Joel Bitonio was placed on injured reserve Friday with his midfoot sprain, and Hue Jackson said he's most likely out for the season.

"There's a good chance,'' said Jackson.

Bitonio must miss at least the next games on IR, and can't return until Dec. 18 at Buffalo for the final three games of the season.

It's not yet known if Bitonio, a third-year pro, will undergo surgery. The Browns haven't specified if the injury is of the Lisfranc variety, which can be very serious.

The Browns filled the roster spot by signing running back Dan Vitale (6-1, 239), a rookie out of Northwestern. Vitale was originally drafted by the Bucs in the sixth round, and has spent the entire season on the Buccaneers' practice squad. As a senior, he led Northwestern in receptions (33), receiving yards (355) and receiving touchdowns (four).

Bitonio is the 11th Browns player placed on IR this season, and they can designate one to return.

Candidates include Robert Griffin III, Nate Orchard and running back Glenn Winston.

Bitonio is also about the sixth starter to be lost for an extended period of time this season. The others are Desmond Bryant (torn pectoral), Griffin (fractured shoulder), Josh McCown (broken collarbone), Corey Coleman (broken hand), Orchard (ankle), and Patrick Murray (knee). The Browns also lost promising center Austin Reiter for the year to a torn ACL.

Bitonio's injury coincides with center Cam Erving returning to action Sunday in Tennessee after missing three games with a bruised lung. That moves John Greco back to guard and brings Alvin Bailey back into the starting lineup.

"He's been playing really well,'' said left Joe Thomas, who sat out Wednesday and Thursday's practice with a sore knee. "Obviously, he's one of the best guards in the NFL, in my opinion. We lose that type of guy, he's tough to replace.''

Bitonio, who missed six games last season with an ankle injury, was having a Pro Bowl-caliber season. Profootballfocus had him ranked No. 9 among all NFL guards.
Bitonio finished Sunday's 33-13 loss to the Patriots despite suffering the serious sprain.

"He's one tough guy,'' said coach Hue Jackson.

According to mangameslost.com, the Browns had 22 player games missed through Week 5 this season due to players listed as "out" on the NFL's weekly injury reports. That's tied for first in the league with the Steelers and Cowboys.

The Browns are sixth in the league in total injuries, which adds games missed by those "out" players with games missed by players on IR (37). That's 59 player games missed in total.

The top 5: Chargers (98), Ravens (83), Bears (76), Saints (72, Bills (70).