DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Oklahoma cop shoots unarmed black man

I don't think the Oklahoma or North Carolina shootings were racial. However, I do think cops need to calm it on being trigger happy. The North Carolina guy was carrying a book. So either these cops have ZERO street experience and are coming straight out of the academy or they're just not paying attention.

I think 6 months of academy training is too short. I feel it should be a year. Hell, do it the same way county sheriffs do it. Have a deputy work in prisons before they work the streets.

Apparently body cams, audio tapes, and other video footage still isn't good enough for some.

Ugh, deplorable.

Yeah.............kinda like this one:



Click on the link to watch the video of it.

You know..................we can all point to terrible acts by the "other side," but until we stop pointing fingers and decide to work together, these incidents will continue and perhaps even escalate.

I'm glad body cameras caught the attack on the officers in that instance.

Not sure what pot you're trying to stir with me, sir. Sorry to take away another needless argument you'd love to have.

The guy eating faces should have been shot

Here is the transcript of the 911 call and the timeline.

TULSA - Records show the incident that led to the fatal shooting of 40-year-old Terence Crutcher began with two anonymous calls to 911.

The time of the calls was not provided, but police released recordings of two women reporting an abandoned vehicle on North 36th Street near North Lewis Avenue

Caller to 911: "And I was like, 'Do you need help?' And he was like, ‘Come here, come here.’ And I said, ‘Well, what’s going on?’ And he’s like, ‘Come here, come here, I think it’s gonna blow up.’ And I was like, “Naw, I’m out.’ And he started tooking out, he took off running.”

Dispatch: “Oh, wow.”

Caller: “And he just left it. I think he’s smoking something.”

7:34 p.m. - Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan said Officer Betty Shelby and another officer were dispatched to a domestic violence call.

7:36 p.m. - A call came into dispatch about an abandoned vehicle at 36th St. North and Lewis Ave. It was described as a tan SUV still running in the middle of the street with the doors open.

7:41 p.m. - Dispatch recordings show Officer Shelby came across an abandoned vehicle at 2300 E. 36 St. N. and called for backup. During a press conference on Monday, Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan said Shelby informed dispatch she was not getting cooperation from the driver.

7:41:50 p.m. - Dispatch recordings show the tag number from the SUV came back clear, Officer Tyler Turnbough responded for backup.

7:42:43 p.m. - Dispatch recording has Shelby saying, "[inaudible] traffic, I've got a subject that won't show me his hands."

7:42:45 p.m. - Dispatch called for 10-63 (dangerous situation, emergency radio traffic) at 2300 E. 36 St. N.

7:42:54 p.m. - Dash camera video shows Officer S. Dunn leaving a police parking area and driving with lights and sirens. He is following another patrol unit.

7:42:17 p.m. - Dispatch recording shows Charlie 305 responding to support Shelby.

7:43 p.m. - Dash camera recording shows Officer Tyler Turnbough arriving to 2300 E. 36 St. N. Turnbough and another officer can be seen running toward a light-colored SUV. Turnbough's Taser is drawn.

At the press conference on Monday, Jordan said Turbough deployed his Taser and Officer Betty Shelby fired her gun.

7:43:50 p.m. - Dash camera from Dunn unit shows helicopter flying above.

7:43:57 p.m. - Dash camera recording shows Dunn arriving on the scene and parking behind Turnbough's vehicle. Dunn runs toward the scene.

7:44:20 p.m. - Helicopter video shows a pilot saying, "Alright, Betty Jo, where you at?" The camera hovers above two police officers with weapons drawn. Crutcher walks toward his SUV with his hands in the air.

A police spokesperson confirmed to 2 Works for You Shelby's husband is a police helicopter pilot. She could not say which of the two voices in the helicopter recording was his.

7:44:26 p.m. - Helicopter video shows a pilot voice saying, "He's got his hands up for her now." The video shows Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his hands in the air. Shelby has her gun pointed at Crutcher.

7:44:37 p.m. - Voice 1 from the helicopter video: "This guy's still walking. And [inaudible] following commands."

Voice 2: "Time for a Tazer, I think."

The helicopter camera shows two more officers running toward Crutcher and his vehicle.

7:44 p.m. - Helicopter recording Voice 1: "That's a ... got a feeling it's about to happen."

Voice 2: "That looks like a bad dude, too. Might be on something."

7:44:13 p.m. - Dash camera video from Officer Turnbough's vehicle shows a voice on the radio asking, "Which direction is he facing?" Simultaneously, Crutcher hits the ground.

"They're facing westbound. I think he may have just been Tasered."

7:44:13 p.m. - Dash camera video from Dunn's vehicle shows Crutcher going down in the glare of headlights.

7:44:20 p.m. - Dash camera video from three officers' vehicles show a female voice saying, "Shots fired."

"Adam 321, we have shots fired. We have one suspect down. We need EMSA here."

7:44:44 p.m. - Dash camera video from Turnbough's vehicle shows four officers backing away in a cluster from the SUV and Crutcher's body. A patrol car pulls in next to the SUV, then drives around the front of it. Crutcher's body can been seen on the driver's side of the SUV.

7:44:56 p.m. - Dash camera video shows Officer Dunn running back to the vehicle, then driving to the front of the SUV to block traffic. Crutcher's body can be seen when the car parks.

7:45:15 p.m. No sound, officers standing between vehicles.

7:45:20 p.m. - Dash camera video from Turnbough's vehicle shows a voice on the radio request EMSA "if we haven't already."

7:45:41 p.m. No sound, male officers appear to be comforting a female officer.

7:45:43 p.m. - Dash camera video from Turnbough's vehicle shows a female officer run from the front of the SUV toward Crutcher's body, observing from several feet away. Two officers stand several yards behind the SUV.

7:45:45 p.m. - Dash camera video from Turnbough's vehicle shows a voice on the radio announcing Charlie 305 arrived on scene.

Link

I'all ask again, do you guys think it would be a good idea for cops to work in corrections, before the streets? It works for county sheriffs. I admire young people wanting to work on the streets quickly, but I believe working in prisons prepares you for street work better. You learn how to better interact with people and how to defuse situations in a better way. To be a deputy for Franklin County, you must work a minimum of 5-7 years in corrections before working in the streets. You can still become an officer and you're even given the option of pursuing a different career path. There are a LOT of people that originally choose to become peace officers, but feel corrections is more rewarding for them. They get paid just as much as the guys working the streets.

We NEED more corrections officers anyways. Often times guys working on cell blocks are badly outnumbered and don't even have protection.

As the facts start to leak out this looks more and more like a bad shooting.

It appears he may have been high on PCP as this story, the officers report of his actions and the 911 call suggest, that doesn't mean he deserved to die. I had thought that possibly he was reaching into the vehicle when shot but now it's shown the window was up.

A second officer came up and both fired simultaneously. The second officer fired a taser. Why didn't the first officer fire a taser too? Why was deadly force assumed necessary from the beginning of this call?

He may have been walking away from the officer and not following her direction but his hands were up and he was not running nor acting in a menacing fashion in the videos I've seen. He didn't pull a weapon, he didn't have one to pull, he didn't act like he was pulling a weapon although the officer is reporting he was patting his pocket and she feared he had a weapon. I fail to understand how patting your pocket warrants death?

The kid pulling the toy gun, the guy in Missouri that reached into the vehicle to grab the officers gun, they put themselves in a position to be shot. This man, I just don't see it. Taser him first if he's not following directions but don't end his life.



TULSA - A Tulsa police official confirms the drug PCP was found in Terence Crutcher's vehicle.

Crutcher was shot by Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby Friday night during a traffic stop. Crutcher, 40, was not armed, nor was a weapon found in his vehicle.

Police are not releasing any details about the investigation, but a police official who is not authorized to speak about the case confirms PCP was inside Crutcher's car.

Scott Wood, the attorney representing Officer Betty says she believed Cruther was under the influence of narcotics, possibly PCP. Wood says Shelby made that assumption based on Crutcher's behavior before the shooting.

Link

I agree that this looks like a bad shoot (as I'm sitting here as a keyboard jockey judging things). I see no reason for deadly force to have been used.


As for the hands up & walking away thing, however, that's a bad situation. He was ignoring commands and in the cops' minds, he was definitely up to something and likely working on picking his moment to act - that almost certainly exacerbated the situation and put them on edge more than they were.

That said, there's still no reason for deadly force. They should have tased him when he was walking away, when he was away from the vehicle. High or not, PCP or not, if both officers deployed tasers, he'd have been down at least long enough to get him cuffed, and this wouldn't be a story.

Probably a good idea. Fact of the matter is that officers are scared to death for their lives right now. Way to much politically correct crap is hindering many from effectively doing their jobs. This come from a PSP Officer. Time to listen to the experts in the trenches and stop with all the BS speculation.

All people want to know is what happened before the pass judgement...


Have you ever been driving down the road when the car died? Did you veer left so you were straddling the double yellow line or did you veer right to try to get to the shoulder? This guy was dead center of the road, straddling the yellow line blocking traffic in both directions... that doesn't seem odd to you?

Now I know that as people ask questions and try to get facts on what happened the common response is going to be.. "Yea, but is that worth shooting him over?" and the response each time will be.. no, that alone is not worth shooting him over.

Right now I feel horrible for Crutcher and his friends and family, I also feel horrible for the cop who shot him, who I'm sure is going through hell right now. If it turns out the shooting was totally unjustified, I won't feel sorry for her anymore and I will hope she is punished severely..

If there is one thing we should have learned from most of these cases, it is that the immediate story that comes out is not only incomplete, it has often been incorrect. So if wanting more information before I rush to convict somebody makes me uncaring or racist, then I will have to live with that label.

Charlotte officials say they are preparing for more protests today, following a night of violent over an officer-involved fatal shooting of an African-American man Tuesday in the University City area. The officer was also African-American.

Twelve police officers were injured Tuesday night in a series of clashes, and reports were coming in early Wednesday of motorists on Interstate 85 being hurt and their vehicles damaged when protesters threw rocks, bottles and traffic cones off interstate overpasses onto traffic below.

At least 16 of the police officers needed to be hospitalized after the clashes, including one who was hit in the face with a rock. Most of the injuries were minor, officials said.

Mayor Jennifer Roberts sent out a message on Twitter early Wednesday, noting: “I will continue to work with our manager and (police) chief...We are reaching out to community to ask for calm.”

Roberts said in a press conference she had been in contact with the state governor’s office and with the White House, and said the city was going to work to get out information as quickly as possible, while also dispelling rumors.

Charlotte Mecklenberg Police Chief Kerr Putney said in a 10:30 a.m. press conference that the department was working to gather facts, including viewing video from the scene. He said the officer involved was in plain clothes, wearing a vest and was accompanied by uniformed officers when they approached the victim. It remains unclear of the killed man was pointing a gun at the officer when he was shot, Putney said.

Putney added that officer have not found a book at the scene of the shooting, contrary to social media claims that the killed suspect was holding a book.

“I can tell you we did not find a book that has been reference to,” Putney said. “We did find a weapon. The weapon was there and witnesses have corroborated it, beyond just the officers.”

Putney said the department would be staffed Wednesday in expectation of more protests in the community, which he believes will be peaceful. “We’ll be prepared for whatever we see...We’re hoping for best but will be prepared for the worst,” he said.

The destruction late Tuesday and early Wednesday included blocking all lanes of Interstate 85 and looting a Walmart on North Tryon Street at about 3:30 a.m. The store was closed early Wednesday, with wooden pallets piled in front of the doors and shopping carts blocking the driveway into the lot.

Three or more tractor trailer trucks were stopped and looted on Interstate 85, and at least two fires were started on the interstate, as the protesters burned items taken from the trucks.

Motorists were reportedly stuck on Interstate 85 for hours at the height of the protests, which ignited at a time when the nation has seen a spate of police shootings of black men, which has led to protests from Ferguson, Mo., to Tulsa to Chicago and started the Black Lives Matter movement.

Only one person has been arrested so far, police said. The neighborhood where the incident occurred was quiet Wednesday, aside from a large media presence.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article103009432.html

This is NOT protest.

This is criminal activity that should be punished through the system. These are not people looking for a solution, these are people hoping to further the problem.

It began as a peaceful protest but then the others arrived and began looting and burning.

Find out if the others were bused in and who paid for the buses, there lies the leader and cause of the problem.

Candyman,
In the story I posted yesterday about the Oklahoma shooting, it was noted that the female officer in Oklahoma was a 9 yr officer of the force and had come from a previous job as a sheriff deputy.

I really do not care where they came from or who they are.

Those who injured officers should be charged with assault and those disrespectful, ignorant and out of control jumping up and down on top of a police car for their second of craved fame with no shirts should be charged with damaging tax payer property. Those who loot the WalMart should be charged accordingly.

This is not protest and I'm tired of it being labeled such.

So Vambo, do you agree with Ben that the police made a mistake?

Without knowing the reason he was tazed and shot I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it could have been handle without the use of guns with that said I believe both sides played a role in the shooting and that it was not racially motivated. This is where educating people on how to conduct yourself when police tell you to do something. But also police need to calm down on the use of force it should be a last resort if all else fails.

This is where I am. I feel cops are just too trigger happy and it's why I suggest they work in corrections. Not every criminal is a threat to your life. Working in prisons helps you gain valuable experience.

When the bad guy pointing a gun at me says give me your wallet, I do not hand him my comb.

When the Police Officer points his firearm at me and says Freeze, show me your hands, that is exactly what I do.

What I see in most of these cases is Cop Assisted Suicides.

This could get to the point when there is a black suspect no police will take the call.

Whoa 40, those are strong words.

I disagree with that premise.

I do agree with complying. Wonder why the same thing occurs in the classroom? Students disrespecting and not doing what they're asked. The schools can do little about it.

Unfortunately, these people enter the streets and behave similarly. The outcome is a bit different.

The burning question in my mind is why does the Chelsea bomber, who is a terrorist, get shot in the shoulder and lives to tell about it and this man is dead? Makes no sense.

That would suit the BLM agenda quite well.

the guy pulled out a gun and started shooting through the glass at them,” Mazza said. “The cops were chasing him and he was shooting while he was running. "

Harder to hit a moving target?

Could be as simple as blind luck.
Pretty sure most cops are more concerned with trying to hit center mass than "try to wound". If you shoot to only "try to wound", you're going to simply miss completely and probably get shot yourself in the process.

You're playing for keeps. If you make the wrong mistake, the pillow your head rests on that night might be stainless steel in the morgue - and it is ALWAYS better for that to happen to the OTHER GUY.

Not really. Did you see the story of the BLM leader in Houston (University of Houston I think) who got mugged at gun point the other day? He was wondering why there isn't MORE of a police presence in his area.. which kind of cracked me up.

He made the comment.. "We aren't anti-cop, we are anti-bad cop." The cops they are throwing stuff at in riots aren't bad cops, the cops sitting in the cars they are jumping on aren't bad cops, the cops that got shot in Texas aren't bad cops

That may be one man's opinion but one of the overall BLM agenda items was abolishment of the police.

Police say PCP found in vehicle occupied by Terence Crutcher on Friday

Police found PCP in the vehicle used by Terence Crutcher the night he was fatally shot by an officer, a Tulsa Police Department official confirmed to the Tulsa World on Tuesday afternoon.

The attorney for the Tulsa police officer who fatally shot Crutcher had said Monday that the officer, Betty Shelby, thought he was acting like he might be under the influence of that drug.

Homicide Sgt. Dave Walker, who confirmed that a vial of PCP was found, declined to say where in the vehicle investigators recovered it, nor did he say whether officers determined that Crutcher, 40, had used it Friday evening.

The Medical Examiner’s Office is expected to provide toxicology information as part of a larger autopsy report.

Police have said Shelby shot Crutcher once in the upper right part of his chest at 36th Street North near Lewis Avenue about 7:45 p.m. Friday. Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan said during a Monday afternoon news conference that Crutcher was unarmed.

Attorney Benjamin Crump, in apparent response to the new information, said during a Tuesday afternoon news conference that “if we started to condemn everybody to death who might have some drugs in their system, all our neighborhoods would be affected. And so we know that’s not correct.”

Crump, who has represented multiple families across the country in police use-of-force cases, was among four attorneys speaking on behalf of the Crutcher family at a Tuesday afternoon news conference at the Tulsa County Courthouse. He said the allegation about Crutcher possessing drugs shouldn’t be seen as cause for Shelby to fire her gun.

“Let us not be thrown a red herring and to say because something was found in the car that is justification to shoot him,” Crump said. Police released on Monday two 911 calls made Friday reporting that an SUV had been abandoned in the middle of 36th Street North, with one anonymous caller telling a dispatcher that a man she saw there might be “smoking something.” Jordan said that day that Shelby “happened upon” the stopped vehicle while en route to an unrelated call.

Attorney Scott Wood, who represents Shelby, told the World previously that his client believed that Crutcher was under the influence of PCP, based on things she learned during drug-recognition expert training. Helicopter camera footage also showed that an unidentified officer said Crutcher “looked like a bad dude” who “could be on something” shortly before he hit the ground.

But Attorney David Riggs, speaking on behalf of the family, said the officers at the scene did not interact with Crutcher appropriately. Family members have alleged that the comment was made out of racial bias.

“You have to ask yourself what is the proper way to handle a situation where someone is acting in a strange way and perhaps not entirely in control of his emotions, mentality, mental state at that time,” Riggs said. “We can’t begin treating everyone in our society, whichever level they might be from, as someone who is a threat to the rest of us because they have a serious condition known as drug addiction.”



As previously reported, Crutcher has a criminal record that includes more than a dozen encounters with law enforcement. In at least four cases, officers employed use of force, including a Taser in 2012, according to records.

A 2012 probable cause affidavit in a misdemeanor case against Crutcher states that his father arrived at the scene in north Tulsa where Terence Crutcher was being arrested on public intoxication and obstruction complaints and told officers his son had “an ongoing problem” with PCP.

An officer used a Taser on Crutcher twice during that arrest while he was face down on the ground, based on the officer’s claim that Crutcher did not comply with at least three orders to show his hands.

The Oklahoma Department of Corrections told the World on Tuesday that Crutcher had been incarcerated on a drug-related conviction for nearly four years and was released on parole in 2011. His supervision ended in May of this year. Court records indicate that a judge issued a bench warrant for Crutcher’s arrest Sept. 1 for failure to pay fines related to his cases.

Crutcher’s attorneys say his history is not relevant, and the Tulsa Police Department has acknowledged that officers weren’t aware of his background during the encounter.

“Officers did not know anything in reference to the individual prior to the contact,” Officer Jeanne MacKenzie, a police spokeswoman, told the World on Saturday.

Dispatch audio released Monday revealed that an officer ran a background check on Crutcher’s license plate, which found nothing indicating that a warrant had been issued for his arrest.

“It’s undisputed that the officers on the scene (Friday night) had no idea what may be in Terence’s car,” family attorney Damario Solomon-Simmons said during a press conference Tuesday. “They had no idea about the previous 911 calls. At that particular moment he was shot, he was not a suspect for any crime. Period.”

MacKenzie declined to comment further on the case Tuesday, citing the pending investigations by the Tulsa County District Attorney’s Office and the U.S. Department of Justice.

Affidavits related to the search of Crutcher’s vehicle for evidence haven’t yet been filed with the Court Clerk’s Office. It’s not yet clear when the Police Department will provide reports to either investigating agency.

Tulsa World reporters Samantha Vicent, Arianna Pickard and Corey Jones contributed to this story.

We'll have to see with the toxicology report. However, if he was under the influence it would explain why he didn't stop moving.

That's why I like to wait to pass judgement as many did let all the facts be brought out then make a judgement based on all the information.

People using PCP often overestimate their abilities or think themselves impervious to harm, which can lead to accidental injuries and death. For example, someone will think they can cross a street quickly enough to avoid the traffic, only to be hit by a car.

While using PCP, people may misinterpret and distort calm situations as confrontational and respond with violence, and since they are perceiving pain inaccurately, the violence could end with serious physical injuries.

http://drugabuse.com/library/the-effects-of-pcp-use/

jc

Huge riot going on in Charlotte, NC right now. I've only been following it for 20 minutes or so but one protester got shot and died. Fox reported that as civilian on civilian crime. A CNN reporter got sucker punched on Live TV. Lots of general chaos, tear gas here and there, etc.

Haus, this is not protest. There is death and looting. The proper terminology would be riot.

1 civilian dead and 7 officers at the hospital.

Some of these goofs are dancing and I have seen women with babies on their hips. Height of ignorance to drag a child into this chaos.

Interesting.

Tense situation still, apparently 300 or so rioters, some of whom are throwing rocks, bottles, and fire crackers at police who occasionally respond by firing tear gas.

Scary dialogue between reporter and cameraman that went something like this:

"Do you want to take a look at this looting?"
*camera turns away from police line toward some other people* "No, they're going to kill us" *camera turns away*

Police line approaching, somebody throws beer bottle full of beer at police

More tear gas

I agree

The wife just walked in the room and we agreed it reminded us of the 60's only in color.