Here we go again!
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/unarmed-man...cid=amp_nbcnews

More fuel for the fire, go media!

Damn media. How dare they report on this...

I have no issue reporting on this, but when police killings is all they report on... that's when an issue arises. There are a slew of "positive" police stories, so and so saved so and so from whatever, police officer saves choking child... I mean the topics are endless it seems. But we only hear when so and so shot so and so and because such and such.

It sways the opinion/perception of the masses because, and I'll use my favorite quote:

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion... without the discomfort of thought.

The lady police officer shot him, I'm not sure why unless she thought he was reaching for something inside that vehicle. The guy had stopped the vehicle in the middle of the road and took off running according to witnesses, he even went up to one of them saying he thought the vehicle was going to blow. Two citizens called 911 and police responded to find this guy, he put up his hands but kept walking away, not responding to their order to stop.

You can hear the helicopter pilot refer to the officer as Betty Jo, because it's his wife. At least you can in the unedited version of the clip.

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/tuls...-fatal-shooting

On the surface and without a lot of the facts, just what you see does not look good for the officer. Why if they tazed him did they feel the need to shoot him? It appears to happen at the same time? She's a 9 year vet of the force and was with the Sheriff's department before that.

The media reports on a lot of things, that's why you know the stories you just mentioned. It was reported that it was an armed, off-duty cop who shot the stabbing terrorist in Minnesota. Last night on the news it was reported locally that cops found and returned a lost toddler who had wandered away from home at night...

Those things get reported, they just don't last because those aren't the things people are going to keep talking about. Things stay in the news because they are controversial, not so people can say, "Hey, good job." over and over again.

[quote=Tulsa]The lady police officer shot him, I'm not sure why unless she thought he was reaching for something inside that vehicle. The guy had stopped the vehicle in the middle of the road and took off running according to witnesses, he even went up to one of them saying he thought the vehicle was going to blow. Two citizens called 911 and police responded to find this guy, he put up his hands but kept walking away, not responding to their order to stop.

You can hear the helicopter pilot refer to the officer as Betty Jo, because it's his wife. At least you can in the unedited version of the clip.

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/tuls...-fatal-shooting

On the surface and without a lot of the facts, just what you see does not look good for the officer. Why if they tazed him did they feel the need to shoot him? It appears to happen at the same time? She's a 9 year vet of the force and was with the Sheriff's department before that. [/quote

From NY Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tulsa-fatally-shot-terence-crutcher-pcp-article-1.2799465.

My input-I saw the video and during that 1 minute I saw nothing that would justify using deadly force-a small portion is not seen around when they taser the subject because of the orientation of the video from the helicopter

The Tulsa police officer who fatally shot Terence Crutcher after his car broke down in the middle of the street thought the unarmed man was behaving erratically and that he may have been under the influence of PCP, the cop’s attorney said.

Officer Betty Shelby, who is seen on police video firing a single fatal shot at close range at Crutcher, had recently undergone drug-recognition training and believed Crutcher was high on the dissociative sedative, attorney Scott Wood told the Tulsa World.

Video of the moments leading up to the shooting, however, shows Crutcher, 40, complying with officers' orders and walking slowly towards his SUV with his hands high in the air.

its the way they report it .. I heard about this today by watching First Take where they said .. White cop shoots unarmed black man while his arms were in the air , our sympathy and prayers go out to the family.. First after watching the video which I admit doesn't look well for the police, shows a man with arms raised walking toward his SUV (doesn't seem to be what the police want him to do) then he appears to lowers his arms and reach in Vehicle at which time he's tased and shot at the same time .. To make that makes me wonder what he was doing to be shot simultaneously. Again.. When I'm pulled over it's sir or ma'am and whatever I'm asked .. I will not be walking to my vehicle and my hands will not be reaching in it. Period

Yeah, it's really the way they twist the truth to get their agenda out there. I know it's meant to get a rise out of people and sell papers/tv space/whatever, but there should at least be some responsibility involved.

I saw a video on Youtube yesterday of an African-American Starbucks manager handing out some free coffee and pastries to a group of cops that were securing an area where a bomb had gone off in New York City. I was half expecting to see a headline later in the day: "Cops take Coffee and Donuts from Black Man and Leave Without Paying"

I find it hard to believe they would walk the guy to his vehicle if they were concerned about him.. If I'm a cop I would never walk a guy to his vehicle where he might be able to get a gun.. It might also be noted I read this man pleaded no contest few years back to a carrying a concealed weapon and resisting arrest.. You think they may have known this beforehand?

So the hell what?? Quit trying to justify murder.

So now you have decided this is Murder.. The video doesn't answer that conclusively.. There are some here in Columbus saying last week's shooting of the 13 year old was unjustified and that's rediculous

Under the same circumstances, anyone other than a cop would have been charged with murder by now.

. That's the most ignorant comment ever.. Cops can sometimes justifiably shoot someone.. An average citizen can also but all police carry and sometimes use their guns... Also has been brought up other places.. White people get killed also and at a higher percentage but you rarely here about it

don't get me wrong .. It does make you wonder why they shot him but he wasn't obeying their commands so we don't know the full story

We need audio to go along with the video before we jump the gun and make up our minds. If the cops told him to go to his car then they are dead wrong. If they told him to stand still and he ignored them then he got what he asked for. The problem is that right now we don't have all the facts.

Facts? FACTS??? We don't need no stinking Facts to judge!

[/URL]

Sorry I am just stupid that way

Stupid like a Fox.

Just so we're clear, this guy has his hands up, still get shot.

over a stalled SUV?

que the "don't resist" crowd.

doesn't seem like he resisted much, meanwhile, a guy goes and stabs two people, eats their faces, and RESIST the cops...

doesn't get shot.

just to remind the board....the 911 call was because witnesses said the guy thought the car was gonna explode.

not that he was being violent.

not that he threatened to shoot anybody.

none of that.

but ok.

unarmed blacks get shot. armed whites shoot people in a church, gets taken to burger king.

nothing to see here folks, move along.

actually the audio does sound like he wasn't complying.. Like they were asking him to stand still... That's why when the other poster said I was trying yo justify murder I was like we don't know all the facts

He resisted to the point where tazers didn't even work.

do you have time to read.. Wanna count the amount of black to white in these stats?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
Safe to assume where race not mentioned, they weren't black

I wanna hear the stats.

Wow Mox, its like 2 to 1

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler#

which way ? I didn't count.. I just seen white, white, white, black , Hispanic , black , white , Hispanic

Here is where we disagree bro. I love ya, I really do but if this guy was ignoring the things the police were telling him and he got shot IT"S HIS OWN DAMN FAULT. I don't give a crap what color he is. If he is to damn stupid to behave himself he deserves what he got. No if, and or butts about it. If the cops are telling you to do something and if your to dam stupid to listen then one only needs to look in the mirror to see where they screwed up. If he followed the cops orders and they shot him any way then it's a whole other story. That's why I want to hear audio.

+1

With the bomb situations going on elsewhere in the country, could the police have thought there was a bomb in the car?

There was mention of a possible explosion. Did that make it onto the 911 call? And how was it relayed to the officers on scene?

If they thought he was going to set off a bomb in the vehicle, and they told him not to approach, I can see shooting him.

so no following = death sentence?

so how come the guy eating faces didn't get the death sentence?

Quit trying to justify murder
*sarcasm*

so how come the whites to die by cop got the death sentence... You know the overwhelming majority white guy

also, mox

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html

2.5 times more likely to get shot than white.

again, you guys have more raw kills because you're the majority.

again i've said this, if you took all the black people and moved them to china, chinese people will be shot more because they ARE the majority.

per capita rates is the standard.

also, man, you guys are really trying you're hardest to not call a spade a spade.

i get it though.

but this is why Colin and others protest.

i've said my peace. as a matter of fact, i've said the same crap over and over. at the end of the day, you guys will believe whatever the hell you want to believe.

have at it.

Taken from what I posted earlier

According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to Mac Donald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as Mac Donald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

That is very informative Mox. Eye opening I might say.

Except that's not the case at all, as many of us have already pointed out.

I don't think the Oklahoma or North Carolina shootings were racial. However, I do think cops need to calm it on being trigger happy. The North Carolina guy was carrying a book. So either these cops have ZERO street experience and are coming straight out of the academy or they're just not paying attention.

I think 6 months of academy training is too short. I feel it should be a year. Hell, do it the same way county sheriffs do it. Have a deputy work in prisons before they work the streets.

Apparently body cams, audio tapes, and other video footage still isn't good enough for some.

Ugh, deplorable.

Yeah.............kinda like this one:



Click on the link to watch the video of it.

You know..................we can all point to terrible acts by the "other side," but until we stop pointing fingers and decide to work together, these incidents will continue and perhaps even escalate.

I'm glad body cameras caught the attack on the officers in that instance.

Not sure what pot you're trying to stir with me, sir. Sorry to take away another needless argument you'd love to have.

.

The guy eating faces should have been shot

Here is the transcript of the 911 call and the timeline.

TULSA - Records show the incident that led to the fatal shooting of 40-year-old Terence Crutcher began with two anonymous calls to 911.

The time of the calls was not provided, but police released recordings of two women reporting an abandoned vehicle on North 36th Street near North Lewis Avenue

Caller to 911: "And I was like, 'Do you need help?' And he was like, ‘Come here, come here.’ And I said, ‘Well, what’s going on?’ And he’s like, ‘Come here, come here, I think it’s gonna blow up.’ And I was like, “Naw, I’m out.’ And he started tooking out, he took off running.”

Dispatch: “Oh, wow.”

Caller: “And he just left it. I think he’s smoking something.”

7:34 p.m. - Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan said Officer Betty Shelby and another officer were dispatched to a domestic violence call.

7:36 p.m. - A call came into dispatch about an abandoned vehicle at 36th St. North and Lewis Ave. It was described as a tan SUV still running in the middle of the street with the doors open.

7:41 p.m. - Dispatch recordings show Officer Shelby came across an abandoned vehicle at 2300 E. 36 St. N. and called for backup. During a press conference on Monday, Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan said Shelby informed dispatch she was not getting cooperation from the driver.

7:41:50 p.m. - Dispatch recordings show the tag number from the SUV came back clear, Officer Tyler Turnbough responded for backup.

7:42:43 p.m. - Dispatch recording has Shelby saying, "[inaudible] traffic, I've got a subject that won't show me his hands."

7:42:45 p.m. - Dispatch called for 10-63 (dangerous situation, emergency radio traffic) at 2300 E. 36 St. N.

7:42:54 p.m. - Dash camera video shows Officer S. Dunn leaving a police parking area and driving with lights and sirens. He is following another patrol unit.

7:42:17 p.m. - Dispatch recording shows Charlie 305 responding to support Shelby.

7:43 p.m. - Dash camera recording shows Officer Tyler Turnbough arriving to 2300 E. 36 St. N. Turnbough and another officer can be seen running toward a light-colored SUV. Turnbough's Taser is drawn.

At the press conference on Monday, Jordan said Turbough deployed his Taser and Officer Betty Shelby fired her gun.

7:43:50 p.m. - Dash camera from Dunn unit shows helicopter flying above.

7:43:57 p.m. - Dash camera recording shows Dunn arriving on the scene and parking behind Turnbough's vehicle. Dunn runs toward the scene.

7:44:20 p.m. - Helicopter video shows a pilot saying, "Alright, Betty Jo, where you at?" The camera hovers above two police officers with weapons drawn. Crutcher walks toward his SUV with his hands in the air.

A police spokesperson confirmed to 2 Works for You Shelby's husband is a police helicopter pilot. She could not say which of the two voices in the helicopter recording was his.

7:44:26 p.m. - Helicopter video shows a pilot voice saying, "He's got his hands up for her now." The video shows Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his hands in the air. Shelby has her gun pointed at Crutcher.

7:44:37 p.m. - Voice 1 from the helicopter video: "This guy's still walking. And [inaudible] following commands."

Voice 2: "Time for a Tazer, I think."

The helicopter camera shows two more officers running toward Crutcher and his vehicle.

7:44 p.m. - Helicopter recording Voice 1: "That's a ... got a feeling it's about to happen."

Voice 2: "That looks like a bad dude, too. Might be on something."

7:44:13 p.m. - Dash camera video from Officer Turnbough's vehicle shows a voice on the radio asking, "Which direction is he facing?" Simultaneously, Crutcher hits the ground.

"They're facing westbound. I think he may have just been Tasered."

7:44:13 p.m. - Dash camera video from Dunn's vehicle shows Crutcher going down in the glare of headlights.

7:44:20 p.m. - Dash camera video from three officers' vehicles show a female voice saying, "Shots fired."

"Adam 321, we have shots fired. We have one suspect down. We need EMSA here."

7:44:44 p.m. - Dash camera video from Turnbough's vehicle shows four officers backing away in a cluster from the SUV and Crutcher's body. A patrol car pulls in next to the SUV, then drives around the front of it. Crutcher's body can been seen on the driver's side of the SUV.

7:44:56 p.m. - Dash camera video shows Officer Dunn running back to the vehicle, then driving to the front of the SUV to block traffic. Crutcher's body can be seen when the car parks.

7:45:15 p.m. No sound, officers standing between vehicles.

7:45:20 p.m. - Dash camera video from Turnbough's vehicle shows a voice on the radio request EMSA "if we haven't already."

7:45:41 p.m. No sound, male officers appear to be comforting a female officer.

7:45:43 p.m. - Dash camera video from Turnbough's vehicle shows a female officer run from the front of the SUV toward Crutcher's body, observing from several feet away. Two officers stand several yards behind the SUV.

7:45:45 p.m. - Dash camera video from Turnbough's vehicle shows a voice on the radio announcing Charlie 305 arrived on scene.

Link

I'all ask again, do you guys think it would be a good idea for cops to work in corrections, before the streets? It works for county sheriffs. I admire young people wanting to work on the streets quickly, but I believe working in prisons prepares you for street work better. You learn how to better interact with people and how to defuse situations in a better way. To be a deputy for Franklin County, you must work a minimum of 5-7 years in corrections before working in the streets. You can still become an officer and you're even given the option of pursuing a different career path. There are a LOT of people that originally choose to become peace officers, but feel corrections is more rewarding for them. They get paid just as much as the guys working the streets.

We NEED more corrections officers anyways. Often times guys working on cell blocks are badly outnumbered and don't even have protection.

As the facts start to leak out this looks more and more like a bad shooting.

It appears he may have been high on PCP as this story, the officers report of his actions and the 911 call suggest, that doesn't mean he deserved to die. I had thought that possibly he was reaching into the vehicle when shot but now it's shown the window was up.

A second officer came up and both fired simultaneously. The second officer fired a taser. Why didn't the first officer fire a taser too? Why was deadly force assumed necessary from the beginning of this call?

He may have been walking away from the officer and not following her direction but his hands were up and he was not running nor acting in a menacing fashion in the videos I've seen. He didn't pull a weapon, he didn't have one to pull, he didn't act like he was pulling a weapon although the officer is reporting he was patting his pocket and she feared he had a weapon. I fail to understand how patting your pocket warrants death?

The kid pulling the toy gun, the guy in Missouri that reached into the vehicle to grab the officers gun, they put themselves in a position to be shot. This man, I just don't see it. Taser him first if he's not following directions but don't end his life.



TULSA - A Tulsa police official confirms the drug PCP was found in Terence Crutcher's vehicle.

Crutcher was shot by Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby Friday night during a traffic stop. Crutcher, 40, was not armed, nor was a weapon found in his vehicle.

Police are not releasing any details about the investigation, but a police official who is not authorized to speak about the case confirms PCP was inside Crutcher's car.

Scott Wood, the attorney representing Officer Betty says she believed Cruther was under the influence of narcotics, possibly PCP. Wood says Shelby made that assumption based on Crutcher's behavior before the shooting.

Link

I agree that this looks like a bad shoot (as I'm sitting here as a keyboard jockey judging things). I see no reason for deadly force to have been used.


As for the hands up & walking away thing, however, that's a bad situation. He was ignoring commands and in the cops' minds, he was definitely up to something and likely working on picking his moment to act - that almost certainly exacerbated the situation and put them on edge more than they were.

That said, there's still no reason for deadly force. They should have tased him when he was walking away, when he was away from the vehicle. High or not, PCP or not, if both officers deployed tasers, he'd have been down at least long enough to get him cuffed, and this wouldn't be a story.

Probably a good idea. Fact of the matter is that officers are scared to death for their lives right now. Way to much politically correct crap is hindering many from effectively doing their jobs. This come from a PSP Officer. Time to listen to the experts in the trenches and stop with all the BS speculation.

All people want to know is what happened before the pass judgement...


Have you ever been driving down the road when the car died? Did you veer left so you were straddling the double yellow line or did you veer right to try to get to the shoulder? This guy was dead center of the road, straddling the yellow line blocking traffic in both directions... that doesn't seem odd to you?

Now I know that as people ask questions and try to get facts on what happened the common response is going to be.. "Yea, but is that worth shooting him over?" and the response each time will be.. no, that alone is not worth shooting him over.

Right now I feel horrible for Crutcher and his friends and family, I also feel horrible for the cop who shot him, who I'm sure is going through hell right now. If it turns out the shooting was totally unjustified, I won't feel sorry for her anymore and I will hope she is punished severely..

If there is one thing we should have learned from most of these cases, it is that the immediate story that comes out is not only incomplete, it has often been incorrect. So if wanting more information before I rush to convict somebody makes me uncaring or racist, then I will have to live with that label.

Charlotte officials say they are preparing for more protests today, following a night of violent over an officer-involved fatal shooting of an African-American man Tuesday in the University City area. The officer was also African-American.

Twelve police officers were injured Tuesday night in a series of clashes, and reports were coming in early Wednesday of motorists on Interstate 85 being hurt and their vehicles damaged when protesters threw rocks, bottles and traffic cones off interstate overpasses onto traffic below.

At least 16 of the police officers needed to be hospitalized after the clashes, including one who was hit in the face with a rock. Most of the injuries were minor, officials said.

Mayor Jennifer Roberts sent out a message on Twitter early Wednesday, noting: “I will continue to work with our manager and (police) chief...We are reaching out to community to ask for calm.”

Roberts said in a press conference she had been in contact with the state governor’s office and with the White House, and said the city was going to work to get out information as quickly as possible, while also dispelling rumors.

Charlotte Mecklenberg Police Chief Kerr Putney said in a 10:30 a.m. press conference that the department was working to gather facts, including viewing video from the scene. He said the officer involved was in plain clothes, wearing a vest and was accompanied by uniformed officers when they approached the victim. It remains unclear of the killed man was pointing a gun at the officer when he was shot, Putney said.

Putney added that officer have not found a book at the scene of the shooting, contrary to social media claims that the killed suspect was holding a book.

“I can tell you we did not find a book that has been reference to,” Putney said. “We did find a weapon. The weapon was there and witnesses have corroborated it, beyond just the officers.”

Putney said the department would be staffed Wednesday in expectation of more protests in the community, which he believes will be peaceful. “We’ll be prepared for whatever we see...We’re hoping for best but will be prepared for the worst,” he said.

The destruction late Tuesday and early Wednesday included blocking all lanes of Interstate 85 and looting a Walmart on North Tryon Street at about 3:30 a.m. The store was closed early Wednesday, with wooden pallets piled in front of the doors and shopping carts blocking the driveway into the lot.

Three or more tractor trailer trucks were stopped and looted on Interstate 85, and at least two fires were started on the interstate, as the protesters burned items taken from the trucks.

Motorists were reportedly stuck on Interstate 85 for hours at the height of the protests, which ignited at a time when the nation has seen a spate of police shootings of black men, which has led to protests from Ferguson, Mo., to Tulsa to Chicago and started the Black Lives Matter movement.

Only one person has been arrested so far, police said. The neighborhood where the incident occurred was quiet Wednesday, aside from a large media presence.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article103009432.html

This is NOT protest.

This is criminal activity that should be punished through the system. These are not people looking for a solution, these are people hoping to further the problem.

It began as a peaceful protest but then the others arrived and began looting and burning.

Find out if the others were bused in and who paid for the buses, there lies the leader and cause of the problem.

Candyman,
In the story I posted yesterday about the Oklahoma shooting, it was noted that the female officer in Oklahoma was a 9 yr officer of the force and had come from a previous job as a sheriff deputy.

I really do not care where they came from or who they are.

Those who injured officers should be charged with assault and those disrespectful, ignorant and out of control jumping up and down on top of a police car for their second of craved fame with no shirts should be charged with damaging tax payer property. Those who loot the WalMart should be charged accordingly.

This is not protest and I'm tired of it being labeled such.

So Vambo, do you agree with Ben that the police made a mistake?

Without knowing the reason he was tazed and shot I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it could have been handle without the use of guns with that said I believe both sides played a role in the shooting and that it was not racially motivated. This is where educating people on how to conduct yourself when police tell you to do something. But also police need to calm down on the use of force it should be a last resort if all else fails.

This is where I am. I feel cops are just too trigger happy and it's why I suggest they work in corrections. Not every criminal is a threat to your life. Working in prisons helps you gain valuable experience.

When the bad guy pointing a gun at me says give me your wallet, I do not hand him my comb.

When the Police Officer points his firearm at me and says Freeze, show me your hands, that is exactly what I do.

What I see in most of these cases is Cop Assisted Suicides.

This could get to the point when there is a black suspect no police will take the call.

Whoa 40, those are strong words.

I disagree with that premise.

I do agree with complying. Wonder why the same thing occurs in the classroom? Students disrespecting and not doing what they're asked. The schools can do little about it.

Unfortunately, these people enter the streets and behave similarly. The outcome is a bit different.

The burning question in my mind is why does the Chelsea bomber, who is a terrorist, get shot in the shoulder and lives to tell about it and this man is dead? Makes no sense.

That would suit the BLM agenda quite well.

the guy pulled out a gun and started shooting through the glass at them,” Mazza said. “The cops were chasing him and he was shooting while he was running. "

Harder to hit a moving target?

Could be as simple as blind luck.
Pretty sure most cops are more concerned with trying to hit center mass than "try to wound". If you shoot to only "try to wound", you're going to simply miss completely and probably get shot yourself in the process.

You're playing for keeps. If you make the wrong mistake, the pillow your head rests on that night might be stainless steel in the morgue - and it is ALWAYS better for that to happen to the OTHER GUY.

Not really. Did you see the story of the BLM leader in Houston (University of Houston I think) who got mugged at gun point the other day? He was wondering why there isn't MORE of a police presence in his area.. which kind of cracked me up.

He made the comment.. "We aren't anti-cop, we are anti-bad cop." The cops they are throwing stuff at in riots aren't bad cops, the cops sitting in the cars they are jumping on aren't bad cops, the cops that got shot in Texas aren't bad cops

That may be one man's opinion but one of the overall BLM agenda items was abolishment of the police.

Police say PCP found in vehicle occupied by Terence Crutcher on Friday

Police found PCP in the vehicle used by Terence Crutcher the night he was fatally shot by an officer, a Tulsa Police Department official confirmed to the Tulsa World on Tuesday afternoon.

The attorney for the Tulsa police officer who fatally shot Crutcher had said Monday that the officer, Betty Shelby, thought he was acting like he might be under the influence of that drug.

Homicide Sgt. Dave Walker, who confirmed that a vial of PCP was found, declined to say where in the vehicle investigators recovered it, nor did he say whether officers determined that Crutcher, 40, had used it Friday evening.

The Medical Examiner’s Office is expected to provide toxicology information as part of a larger autopsy report.

Police have said Shelby shot Crutcher once in the upper right part of his chest at 36th Street North near Lewis Avenue about 7:45 p.m. Friday. Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan said during a Monday afternoon news conference that Crutcher was unarmed.

Attorney Benjamin Crump, in apparent response to the new information, said during a Tuesday afternoon news conference that “if we started to condemn everybody to death who might have some drugs in their system, all our neighborhoods would be affected. And so we know that’s not correct.”

Crump, who has represented multiple families across the country in police use-of-force cases, was among four attorneys speaking on behalf of the Crutcher family at a Tuesday afternoon news conference at the Tulsa County Courthouse. He said the allegation about Crutcher possessing drugs shouldn’t be seen as cause for Shelby to fire her gun.

“Let us not be thrown a red herring and to say because something was found in the car that is justification to shoot him,” Crump said. Police released on Monday two 911 calls made Friday reporting that an SUV had been abandoned in the middle of 36th Street North, with one anonymous caller telling a dispatcher that a man she saw there might be “smoking something.” Jordan said that day that Shelby “happened upon” the stopped vehicle while en route to an unrelated call.

Attorney Scott Wood, who represents Shelby, told the World previously that his client believed that Crutcher was under the influence of PCP, based on things she learned during drug-recognition expert training. Helicopter camera footage also showed that an unidentified officer said Crutcher “looked like a bad dude” who “could be on something” shortly before he hit the ground.

But Attorney David Riggs, speaking on behalf of the family, said the officers at the scene did not interact with Crutcher appropriately. Family members have alleged that the comment was made out of racial bias.

“You have to ask yourself what is the proper way to handle a situation where someone is acting in a strange way and perhaps not entirely in control of his emotions, mentality, mental state at that time,” Riggs said. “We can’t begin treating everyone in our society, whichever level they might be from, as someone who is a threat to the rest of us because they have a serious condition known as drug addiction.”



As previously reported, Crutcher has a criminal record that includes more than a dozen encounters with law enforcement. In at least four cases, officers employed use of force, including a Taser in 2012, according to records.

A 2012 probable cause affidavit in a misdemeanor case against Crutcher states that his father arrived at the scene in north Tulsa where Terence Crutcher was being arrested on public intoxication and obstruction complaints and told officers his son had “an ongoing problem” with PCP.

An officer used a Taser on Crutcher twice during that arrest while he was face down on the ground, based on the officer’s claim that Crutcher did not comply with at least three orders to show his hands.

The Oklahoma Department of Corrections told the World on Tuesday that Crutcher had been incarcerated on a drug-related conviction for nearly four years and was released on parole in 2011. His supervision ended in May of this year. Court records indicate that a judge issued a bench warrant for Crutcher’s arrest Sept. 1 for failure to pay fines related to his cases.

Crutcher’s attorneys say his history is not relevant, and the Tulsa Police Department has acknowledged that officers weren’t aware of his background during the encounter.

“Officers did not know anything in reference to the individual prior to the contact,” Officer Jeanne MacKenzie, a police spokeswoman, told the World on Saturday.

Dispatch audio released Monday revealed that an officer ran a background check on Crutcher’s license plate, which found nothing indicating that a warrant had been issued for his arrest.

“It’s undisputed that the officers on the scene (Friday night) had no idea what may be in Terence’s car,” family attorney Damario Solomon-Simmons said during a press conference Tuesday. “They had no idea about the previous 911 calls. At that particular moment he was shot, he was not a suspect for any crime. Period.”

MacKenzie declined to comment further on the case Tuesday, citing the pending investigations by the Tulsa County District Attorney’s Office and the U.S. Department of Justice.

Affidavits related to the search of Crutcher’s vehicle for evidence haven’t yet been filed with the Court Clerk’s Office. It’s not yet clear when the Police Department will provide reports to either investigating agency.

Tulsa World reporters Samantha Vicent, Arianna Pickard and Corey Jones contributed to this story.

We'll have to see with the toxicology report. However, if he was under the influence it would explain why he didn't stop moving.

That's why I like to wait to pass judgement as many did let all the facts be brought out then make a judgement based on all the information.

People using PCP often overestimate their abilities or think themselves impervious to harm, which can lead to accidental injuries and death. For example, someone will think they can cross a street quickly enough to avoid the traffic, only to be hit by a car.

While using PCP, people may misinterpret and distort calm situations as confrontational and respond with violence, and since they are perceiving pain inaccurately, the violence could end with serious physical injuries.

http://drugabuse.com/library/the-effects-of-pcp-use/

jc

Huge riot going on in Charlotte, NC right now. I've only been following it for 20 minutes or so but one protester got shot and died. Fox reported that as civilian on civilian crime. A CNN reporter got sucker punched on Live TV. Lots of general chaos, tear gas here and there, etc.

Haus, this is not protest. There is death and looting. The proper terminology would be riot.

1 civilian dead and 7 officers at the hospital.

Some of these goofs are dancing and I have seen women with babies on their hips. Height of ignorance to drag a child into this chaos.

Interesting.

Tense situation still, apparently 300 or so rioters, some of whom are throwing rocks, bottles, and fire crackers at police who occasionally respond by firing tear gas.

Scary dialogue between reporter and cameraman that went something like this:

"Do you want to take a look at this looting?"
*camera turns away from police line toward some other people* "No, they're going to kill us" *camera turns away*

Police line approaching, somebody throws beer bottle full of beer at police

More tear gas

I agree

The wife just walked in the room and we agreed it reminded us of the 60's only in color.

Apparently there were about 800 protesters/rioters at its peak. Police gave the order to disperse to everyone, including media, a while back and most have complied. Only the most hardcore rioters remain.



That's one look that came while the reporter was walking away. There were many such looted businesses.

I am moved by the desperation and hopelessness of the Black people in the interviews.

NBC reporter:

Mark Boyle ‏@WCNCmboyle 18m18 minutes ago
I have moved about 4 blocks away from the scene. Protesters throwing things at our SUV. Not safe to be out here right now

Estimates of remaining protesters vary between 80-200

Some have represented the cause very well.

Others, not so much

I've said this before and honestly believe it. A domestic terrorist group will form out of this. It's going to get extremely ugly. I guarantee someone tries to blow up a police station.

Praying for everyone in Charlotte.

Another fire has been started

Several very loud booms a few minutes ago. The anchor said they were flashbangs but I'm pretty sure they were fireworks. The one that was shown on camera certainly looked like it had the 'glittery' effect of a firework. Hard to say about the other ones.

Going forward, the department of justice and law enforcement need to agree on the topic of releasing videos. You can't have one agency release a video and another department not. This needs to get solved NOW.

Apparently some of them tried to throw a photographer into one of these fires. Not sure what station WCCB is but they have the twitter check mark, so at least Twitter thinks they're legit. https://twitter.com/WCCBCharlotte/status/778788105469960192

Also the guy who got shot earlier is now being reported as alive but on life support, critical condition

Yeah it's a good point. They have interviewed some of these protesters/rioters and there is some confusion about whether the guy that was shot the other day in Charlotte was holding a book or holding a gun. Police say it was a gun and they have video of him walking toward police with it.

I don't have any opinion on that, but this is crazy. And it needs to stop. Best wishes to everyone out there, hopefully there is no more senseless violence and destruction.

Madness.

WCCB, Charlotte's CW ‏@WCCBCharlotte 7m7 minutes ago
TV crew from local media station taken to hospital after being attacked in #CharlotteProtest. #WCCB's thoughts are with you @wcnc. #news

Didn't realize this, but I guarantee he will be on Fox News, but Sheriff David Clarke got paid $150,000 in speaking fees last year.

Now we have a silly little zem zem parade of bikes and four wheelers. This is absolutley ridiculous behavior.

I appreciate the approach this guy took. He just wants answers and he's not doing it violently.

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/778787267171196928

If you disagree with BLM or not, the DOJ needs to start doing its job and adding transparency.

One of the protesters is live streaming and showing some of the rioters smashing windows and taking shots at passing cars, full facial shots and all. You can't make this .... up.

Never really understood people that break up their own neighborhood like that. It show stupidity and means you don't know how to channel your frustrations in a more constructive way in my opinion. Just because you loot and riot doesn't mean that's going to change anything.

I just pray that no one else is hurt in this situation.

Officers repeatedly told Scott to drop his handgun, the chief said, but he didn't. Officer Brentley Vinson, who is black, then shot him.


Another shooting that should have been avoided by following what the police tell you to do.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/us/charlotte-police-shooting/

Dude with a gun-

https://mobile.twitter.com/wxbrad/status/778787209507921920

This is where I think BLM has a legit beef, but its with the DOJ or Department of Public Safety. They need to come out an answer questions. Stop making police chiefs and sheriffs be the fall guys every time something bad happens. Leadership in charge needs to nut up, hold a press conference and answer tough questions regarding policy and procedures.

You have a LOT of angry people who are not having their questions answered. This is going to get worse.

j/c

You guys give waaaay too much credit to the effectiveness of a taser. There's more that can go wrong with using one that will render it ineffective than it being successful: first both probes have to hit AND take hold. Second, they won't penetrate thick clothing, and if the subject is drunk or high, the likelihood of it working begins to significantly decrease.

I think you guys are also seriously underestimating just what a person high on PCP is capable of doing. I've never directly dealt with one, but several others in my department have. One night this guy runs butt naked through a plate glass window of a hotel. BTW, it was on the second floor and he landed feet first, shattering both ankles and he was still running around causing havoc.

People on PCP are known to be erratic and violent and to possess super human strength. Although it doesn't appear the subject got to the violent part yet, he was certainly acting erratic. Also, recognize that this wasn't a controlled environment. It's the middle of a highway, a very public place. The officer suspected him of being on PCP (and it appears he might actually have been). This is one of those situations that can literally go from bad to worse in a fraction of a second. Maybe he decides to run in to the on coming lanes, or maybe he runs off the street and starts going after people nearby, both totally possible and likely.So there is a potential safety issue for the public at large from this individual. Having a gun drawn at this point isn't inappropriate.

As to why he was shot and tasered at the same time. A lot research in to police involved shootings has been done in order to improve training and practices. In some instances they saw officers fire their weapons and then holster them... in the middle of a shoot out. You'd have some who just stood in the open, feet spread apart, both arms extended... instead of taking cover 2 feet away. Both of these types of actions are actions you take when qualifying at the range. It's static, it's repetitive, and it's geared more precision shooting. When in stressful situations a person reverts to their training... in these cases target shooting. This is how cops were being conditioned as a result of unforeseen consequences of that kind of training. Part of that conditioning is pulling your trigger when you hear another shot go off.

Tasers make a loud pop too. My guess at this point is that in this situation when she heard the pop of the taser her "training" kicked in and she pulled her trigger as well. And while a gun is considerably louder than a taser, there's a whole physiology that goes on in the human body in these high stress situations, things that effect everyone differently. I've had a .45 go off ten feet from my head in an enclosed space and all I heard was a pop. I actually thought a taser had gone off for a second. The officer who fired could still smell the gun powder months later. I had no sense of smell that day and I LOVE the smell of gun powder.

It'll be interesting to see what her training records are like.

Now what I just laid out doesn't justify the shoot but it does lay out a possible "why" it happened.

I've heard the term "de-escalation" thrown around. Out of curiosity, what does that mean to you guys? Using a taser vs shooting someone isn't an example of de-escalation. That's simply a lower level of force. De-escalation is taking a person in an heightened, excitable state to a passive one. You can't talk someone out of a drug induced state. You can't talk someone out of an acute mental health crisis (hallucinations, suicidal thoughts, etc). The goal in either case is to get the person hopefully to a point where they are passive enough that you can put them in a controlled environment where they can't hurt themselves or other people. THEN you can begin to address the issue longer term: detox, medication, therapy, etc.

Definitely a bad situation for all involved.

This is flat out rioting and looting.

There is no reason for this. Stupidity

Since this guy had been in so much trouble in the past I give the police credit that he's lived this long.. When this first hit you has family members talking like he was a quire boy when clearly he's had a past.. Since he lived the life he did wasn't it just a matter of time ... Not justifying the shooting but just my opinion

link not working. Sorry.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/09/22/shock-video-charlotte-rioters-gang-man-hands-drag-pummel/

Is this what we've come to?

Question....

If the Charlotte police have the video of what actually happened and the guy had a gun, why not just release the video? Seems that would certainly help de-escalate the situation.

Law enforcement doesn't give in to the demands of rioters.

The Chief said he had a gun in the video, now go home and they will release the video, they are kinda busy now.

Funny how quickly they released the video in Oklahoma and all has been peaceful protests.

So you feel law enforcement has no duty to be transparent to the public that pays their salary. It's thinking like that which only adds to the problem.

The rioting started the night of the shooting, no time to react.
The highly respected and Black Police Chief said the video shows the guy brandishing a gun when shot.

That is transparent enough in the face of riots, now go home so he can get on with business.

What further excuse would you like to use to justify the continued rioting?

With regard to all of these unfortunate circumstances, I have one word:

RESPECT

You're a very funny man.

I'm not upholding people who riot. I'm not upholding any acts of violence or vandalism. Nor am I upholding looting.

But it seems you hold both sides up to the same standards. I'm sorry if I hold public officials and police to a higher standard that I do common criminals.

They've had how long now to release a video that takes five minutes to do? I don't care what color the police chief is. Maybe color means something to you.

The responsible thing to do is to release the video ASAP. If it clearly shows what the police chief says it does, then it shouldn't be an issue to do this. It would clearly help alleviate the situation.

It's certainly fine if you expect both parties to act in the same manner. However, our public officials and law enforcement are paid to act responsibly and be accountable.

So you would have the Police Chief drop everything to meet the demands of you and the rioters?

Would you have him take a break from saving lives, organizing Police responses, integrating the newly arrived State Police and National Guard? Perhaps to meet your demands he should give up some of the much needed sleep he gets from time to time?

This is America and we have one of the best Judicial and Justice systems on the planet but you would like to hurry up the case?

The mans word is not enough for you?
I mentioned he is Black because you probably fear he is a racist and a liar.

Go home and let our system of justice do its job!

No. The police chief only has to tell his people to release the video. Doesn't giving the public, not just rioters, the truth and evidence of it to the public? You make it sound like it will take so much of his time. It wouldn't.



If the five minutes it would cost could save lives and since part of his actual job is to be accountable for his department, yes.



Hurry up the case? What a joke.



I fear that the police are complicating things by not releasing the video. Did you forget they released the video right away in Oklahoma?



Release the video and help stop the violence by being open with the public.

Amazing how you and I see so many things alike .. I was about to say the same thing about not giving into the demands of rioters .. I'd like to know where Obama is .. Should he not be on TV addressing these things. I'm still waiting on him to bring this country together

Police said he was waving around a gun and they told him to put it down.. his family said it was a book.

Police have said they found a gun on him but there was no book in the car... his family said it was a book.

there are people at the riots carrying signs about being killed for reading a book.

They have already made up their mind what the truth is.

Oh Moxy, are you talking about our fearless leader who has been the biggest promoter of all these troubles and riots from the beginning?

He came down on the wrong side of the Zimmerman case and gave hope to Blacks that Zimmy was guilty and would be punished then ripped away that hope when he was found not guilty? The leader who then had the Feds investigate the case, assuring they would get justice but they ended up finding zero evidence for a Federal case, dashing the hopes and raising tensions in the Black community again?

How about in Ferguson? Hands up turned out to be a lie but the Black community bought into it anyway which left them feeling that an unarmed Black man was shot with his hands up, increasing anger in the Black community. Did Obama help to calm that situation?

On and on, Obama has been a weak leader in these matters and has made things much worse.

So now he remains silent. He doesn't call for rioters to go home while they seek out the facts in the case. He lets it simmer and boil.

He sure didn't hesitate to come on tv and order the Black community to protect his legacy and vote for Hillary, now did he?

Only thing I can find is this:

http://www.kwch.com/content/news/NC-TV-s...-394340031.html

Well.....and this. Caution: Language warning.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/21/brothe...e-people-video/

I thought I had read that the cop that shot the guy was black.

The officer was Black and Racism in any form is wrong.

People seem to want to take up sides on these issues but to me there is only one side and that is the side of TRUTH.

We can find solutions when we see the TRUTH.

In other statements the same police chief says its unclear if he pointed the gun at officers... then I read a quote where he said it was unclear if he had the gun in his hand.. it's still all very confusing and the news is all over the place.

I did read in a quote that the mayor said she plans to watch the video "on Thursday or Friday".. pretty neat, her city is in chaos and she has the authority to watch it whenever she wants and she isn't going to watch the video for 3 or 4 days?

What is your experience as a Mayor of a City under siege?

Agreed.

I also read earlier today (but I don't know where. Sorry, can't find it either) that the chief made a statement along the lines of "the video (don't remember if it was dash cam vid, or vid from an on body camera) was not clear enough.

Meaning, it wouldn't show definitively.

So, I don't know what's going on.

Right now, it's all Kerrputney.

Another thing people don't realize is this is a very important legal investigation.

If they watch the video and there are 4 people standing on the sidewalks during the shooting, they will want to make contact with those potential witnesses before they even know they were seen on video. You don't just release this stuff if you are looking for justice, just to please the viewing audience.

Before than can do anything they will need to get their city under control.

We all can see the protesters are there to demand Truth and Justice and I think we can agree with them but the Rioters are there to show their muscle, call for the killing of white cops, act like gangstas and grab free stuff.

What is your experience as a District Attorney?

Some guy got beat to death by cops-

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/marylan...-help-attorney/

Was I so bold as to criticize the District Attorney like you did the Mayor?

Tulsa police officer charged in man's death
JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS and SEAN MURPHY,Associated Press 26 minutes ago .



TULSA, Okla. (AP) — Prosecutors in Tulsa, Oklahoma, have filed first-degree manslaughter charges against the white police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black man on a city street.

District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed the charges Thursday against officer Betty Shelby, who shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher on Sept. 16. Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the air.

The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man began to reach into his SUV window.

Tulsa police say Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle.

Excellent!

Bad cops or cops involved in bad killings should have the book thrown at them!

Truth.
Justice.

You know me bro. I think you know my heart, and my mind. You know me as a person not just a poster around here. What makes me sad, mad, upset, and sick to my stomach is that a video can be posted of a person being arrested, being a total butthole, telling the cops to go screw themselves, aim a gun at the cops, etc, etc, and then get shot and some people blame the police WTF. let me repeat that WTF, wtf, wtf, If you are confronted by the police and you act like a total (Bleep out about ten words here) you deserve to get shot. I know some folks won't agree with that, but I don't care. I am tired of watching americans destroy this country because they want to behave like idiots.

Charlotte police chief: Shooting video won't be made public

Asked whether there was a time at which the public could expect to see it, Chief Kerr Putney said there should be no such expectation.
"Transparency's in the eye of the beholder," he said. "If you think we should display a victim's worst day for public consumption, that is not the transparency I'm speaking of."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/22/us/charlotte-protests/

So in the heat of the moment and someone doesn't act rationally and chooses to yell and curse, they deserve to lose their life?

......And this is how you get a 3rd night of rioting.

While the public shouldn't expect to see the video, Todd Walther, spokesman for the Charlotte Fraternal Order of Police, told CNN that he viewed the footage, and it demonstrated Scott was "an obvious threat" to police officers. He said Scott can be seen with a gun and ankle holster in the video.
Scott was in a vehicle when police arrived to serve a warrant on another man at an apartment complex, he said. Some of the officers were not in uniform, but they still had vests or jackets that said "police" on the front and back, Walther said.
"He was seated in (the car) when he was approached, but when he exited that vehicle, he was given clear commands to drop the weapon -- and he did not do that," Walther said. "So he was armed when he came out of that vehicle and refused to listen to officers."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/22/us/charlotte-protests/

They just announced on NBC that he is permitting the family to view the video.

North Carolina law blocks release of police recordings

By Emanuella Grinberg, CNN
Updated 11:08 PM ET, Wed July 13, 2016


Recordings from body or dashboard cameras will be off-limits to public without court order

(CNN)Citing a desire to balance "public trust" with the rights and safety of law enforcement officers, North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory signed legislation this week that blocks the release of law enforcement recordings from body cameras or dashboard cameras with limited exceptions.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/12/politics/north-carolina-police-recording-law/index.html

That law doesn't go into effect until October 1. This is purely the City of Charlotte's discretion.

YES, YES, and YES let me make myself clear. If the police pull you over or come to your home. and you act like a total freakin brain dead stupid spoiled freakin idiot then you deserve to get shot. No if, ands, or buts about it. Let me make sure you understand what I am saying. If you act like a spoiled brat child around police and dare them to shoot you, and they do then guess what. IT"S your own damn fault.

Using your logic-

So every human being that has ever been drunk and gotten in an argument with another human being should be shot?

Or are cops the only ones allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner?

Semantics. The law has been passed.

Let me tell you I have been drunk around 8,000 times in my life. I have done many, many stupid things, I have never ever treated a cop who pulled me over/confronted me/or come to my home (which has happened more times that I would like to admit) in a manor that would entice him to shoot me. If I did I would expect him to do so and blame myself.

Drunk and disorderly conduct should be a death sentence for someone. At least your consistent.

You shouldn't argue with a cop. Ever. It never works out well for you. Ever.

Neither does arguing with a gang member.

...you live in a manor, but it's not enticing. If it was a nice manor, you'd expect him to shoot you?

Well I guess the video has been seen by the family, the Po Po have said all they have to say and the State Police and National Guard are on scene.

Tonight should be head cracker night!

Drunk and disordley has nothing to do with being a 150 percent butthole who thinks their crap doesn't stink and they can do whatever they want in life with no consequence. Time for you to Man up and admit when people screw up they get what they deserve. Not everybody is going to count to three for the wimps.

Yea! That's him....

On CNN, the crowds are gathering to get their heads busted.

They are beginning to get in the Cop's faces!

White people taking selfies of me with my Black brothers!

Police announcing "This is an illegal gathering, please disperse."

3 guys with a sign saying "Resistance Is Futile".

Some guy with the biggest hair I have ever seen!

What does that mean?

Oh oh, they are now gathering on FOX to get their heads busted!

Excuse me officer, how do you tell the difference between a Protester and a Rioter?

Rioter gots a 10 in gash in his head, Protester 3 inch!

It means some people still don't understand respect

I followed the riots for a couple hours last night. I'm not sure I can do it again. Seriously, it is like watching humanity at its worst. Reading mainstream media's articles after the fact only gives a small suggestion as to what happened and who was doing what.

You rest while I watch with both eyes tonight.

So far everyone is acting human so I am switching back and forth...

FOX, CNN, Football game.

Sounds good. I have to admit, I pulled up a live stream and have kept an eye on it here and there. It's like a train wreck-- hard to keep your eyes off of. Agreed that everyone is acting reasonably so far. Last night had a very different vibe.

Why would you respect Gang Members? Drugs, prostitution, drive by shooting...?

Go back and follow the thread. I think you can figure it our if you want to. If not meh......That's OK.

Charlotte Mayor orders midnight curfew tonight.

Thanks for no knowing either.

Wow... this thread went down in flames... smh

Anyway,

In Tulsa, talking to a few other officers, the general consensus is that she fired due to that sympathetic nervous system response I mentioned in my last post. It may turn out to be something else, but that seems to be the developing consensus amongst professionals.

A charge in this case is certainly warranted.

As to if it is an appropriate charge? I don't know if Tulsa is reading this thread, but maybe he can shed some light on how it's done in OK?

I'm curious to know a couple things:

Is 1st degree manslaughter the same as 1st degree murder? In my experience murder is reserved for crimes that involve a level of intent i.e. dude buries his wife in the basement... where as manslaughter charges are associated with death as a result of negligent act i.e. you run a red light and t-bone someone.

Second, is OK a state where a jury can find someone not guilty on the more serious charge, but guilty on a lesser related charge?

As to the bodycam/video law in NC coming up...

Recently the Gov signed in to law a bill stating that there is no free for for all when it comes to the public demanding and viewing things like body cam footage. If you want to see the footage you have to petition the court and a judge has to issue a court order. Critics immediately contend that it is designed to favor police and prevent transparency and accountability. In reality it is no such thing and it's intent is not to protect police. What it really does is protect the privacy of citizens.

As a cop, you guys may consider me a "public" official and therefor everything I do in that capacity should be instantly and readily available for scrutiny, that MY privacy comes secondary to my "public" role.

And you would be wrong. Personally I don't care if you stand across the street and watch what I'm doing. Film me. Just don't try to distract me or get in the middle of what I'm doing. And if you do put it on YouTube, please edit out any parts where I scratch my ass or pick my nose.

What many people don't realize is, my encounters with people no matter what the situation is, is a very private one. The CITIZENS I deal with are not public officials and DO have a right to have their privacy protected.

Put yourselves in these positions. Not as the cop, but as the citizen:

-It's 3 am and your door bell rings. The officer standing there tells you your kid was killed by a drunk driver.

-Your sister finally called the cops because that boyfriend you know is no good for her beat. You catch up with her at the hospital while she's giving her statement and the cop is taking pictures of her black eye and split lip.

-You've been depressed and feeling suicidal. Or maybe you've been feeling better, more normal and stopped taking your bipolar/schizo medication. Now it's caught up to you and you're having a crisis.

-You're drunk leaving the stadium and pee on some bushes.

-You've just been in a car wreck and you aren't going to make it.

-Hell, you report a burglary. Do you want the inside of your house made public?

Would you want the world to see YOU if you were experiencing these things? Would you want the world to see your loved ones last moments of life?

There are plenty of people advocating for constant, free and unfettered access to bodycam footage. They say it's in the name of transparency,but what it really is, it's a sick level of voyeurism. If you go with that standard
I garuntee you there will be websites set up where the developer puts in a standard and continual request for videos and then broadcasts them 24/7.

This law protects the privacy of citizens more than anything else. And because of that I think it is a good law.

Part of that law also says that if you are on that recording, you can petition the department who has it to view it and they must make arrangements to do so within 3 days. It is a private viewing and you are not given a copy to take with you (to my knowledge).

Just a warning though, even video footage requires the proper context.

Murder is intentionally killing another person, usually with malicious intent, or in the commission of a crime.

Manslaughter is unintentional, but not excusable, or justifiable given the circumstances.

1st degree manslaughter and 1st degree murder are not the same here and it is as you described it. A jury can find someone guilty of a lesser offense. The minimum sentence she'll be facing if convicted is 4 years.

It is a little odd the DA charged her yesterday since the report from the police hasn't come out yet and isn't expected out until today. From what I've seen, I agree with the charge, it just seems like he's rushing things not waiting for the police report.

Now she'll have her day in court where a jury will decide her guilt or innocence based on the facts presented. Then the family of the victim has to come out yesterday after the announcement of her arrest saying that justice will only be served with a conviction. There is still a presumption of innocence in this country, at least there should be.

I agree with everything you said, but this week wasn't the time to enact this bill.

The family in Charlotte released a cell phone video. The police have not released yet.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/char...e-keith-n653426

It was signed in July, to take effect on October 1.

Saw it. Just curious when the wife kept saying, don't do it Keith, Keith don't do it. Wonder what she meant? Still doesn't show the actual event. It is simply an emotionally filled video. Her angle does not show the event. Hope the police have one that does.

No one should have to go through that.

Yes, I agree. I am just curious as to what she meant. Makes good sense

I don't know so many unknowns and so many questions a lot of finger pointing.

The video makes for more questions than it gives answers.

When 40 posted this: "North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory signed legislation this week that blocks the release of law enforcement recordings from body cameras or dashboard cameras with limited exceptions." I didn't notice the July 13th date at the top. I thought it was current.

Apology accepted.

Google this...


This Is Why Police Don't Let You Go Back To Your Car

has language you can't post here but here's the back story.

Brannan, 66, lost his temper with Laurens County Sheriff Deputy Kyle Dinkheller, on Jan. 12, 1998, after driving 100 mph on a country road and getting pulled over by the officer. Brannan left his vehicle and sarcastically prodded Dinkheller to shoot him, screamed that he was a “[censored] Vietnam combat veteran,” and then retrieved a rifle from his pickup truck, according to a police cruiser dashboard camera video later released. The two men exchanged shots, with Brannan suffering one gunshot wound to the abdomen and Dinkheller getting hit nine times. The graphic video shows Dinkheller, a Laurens County deputy, screaming in terror and pain as Brannan closes in on him and kills him at point-blank range after reloading. It is now used in police training across the country.

I was thinking today that I can't imagine why anyone would want to be a cop now days.. Can't do your job which is ridiculous

You can do your job as a cop. Just don't shoot to kill with unarmed individuals

Just curious is the any of these where the person shot obeys and does what the police instruct them to do or do they all resist instructions?

Resisting=no good.

Shooting unarmed individuals who are resisting with no weapons shouldn't equal shoot to kill. I'm quite sure SOP says subdue with non-lethal force.

In GMs world if you resist you deserve to be killed for it.

However, in this case, the man who was shot and killed reportedly had a gun, and refused to obey Police instructions. The gun reportedly has the dead man's fingerprints, DNA, and blood on it.

I can understand that his wife was absolutely distraught. There can be few things as painful as seeing a loved one being shot in front of you. Watching the video that the wife released, and hearing her continuing to call out to him "Don't do it", as the Police told him drop the weapon.

The wife yelling that he didn't have a gun means nothing. Her implication that the Police should have done nothing is meaningless. I hate to go all or nothing on this, but when a Police officer sees an active threat, it doesn't matter what a bystander is yelling.

I think that it is horrible that this man apparently had mental health issues, and that this situation came this unfortunate end. I hope that we can find a way to offer our veterans better access to mental health help. A young lady in my church is engaged to a young man who served in Iraq, and who has had significant difficulties in dealing with PTSD. I know, from talking to both of them, what he has been dealing with.

I do hope that all people will take a moment and consider the best way to interact with Police should a situation ever arise where they are forced to do so. I am White, yet if I am pulled over, I do all of the things that some have said they have been told to do. I roll down my window, turn on the inside window if it is dark, put both hands on the top of the steering wheel, and sit while waiting instructions from the officer. If I have to get anything out of the glove box, I ask if it is OK do do so. I obey what the officer orders.

One thing that no one can debate is that this man did not follow Police instructions. If he had, would he still be alive? I think that he certainly would have a much better chance of being alive if he had.

This is a really sad situation.

In GM's world, if you don't resist, you live to see the courtroom.

Hey, I got popped for a dui some 23 years ago. I didn't run, I didn't sass, I didn't argue. Cop even took me home after, because I couldn't get a hold of anyone to pick me up at the station.

Imagine that. 1 minute I'm cuffed and stuffed. 45 minutes later, I'm sitting in the front seat of the cop car (Ohio State Patrol) as he's giving me a ride home, and telling me how to beat the charge.

Damn......no guns involved.

I'm still waiting for the whole story in Charlotte. Sorry, thought we were still talking about Oklahoma as the topic states.

The Charlotte thing? Look at the evidence first. Rioting will never end up as justified in my book.

Don't you find it bad that a man in Oklahoma got gunned down who was unarmed?

If they resist instructions how can the police know for sure they are unarmed?

Just because their hands are showing doesn't mean they have no weapon if you have nothing to hide you follow instructions = ALIVE. BLM made it worse calling to kill whites.

Killing is bad but there are ways to help yourself stay alive following police instruction is one of them.

Absolutely. If I implied otherwise, I didn't mean to.

The cop has been charged. Justice will prevail - we hope, once all the facts are known. The lady has been charged, arrested, booked, etc.

Wasn't he suspected to be on PCP? They said they found some in his SUV.

Sorry. I was thinking about the other shooting.

Man, we have these shootings, and let's be honest, most turn out to be justified. However, we add body cams to police officers' uniforms, and they get turned off, or are inconclusive. We have cameras inside Police cruisers, and they do no good as far as providing insight into what happened.

I really don't know where to go next, as far as that end of things is concerned.

Shouldnt be killing anyone who isnt waving a gun around. They can subdue them in other ways. I feel like this is either a training or policy problem.

Yeah, I read about that.

Just don't like this idea that people are sort of pushing that "it's okay he was shot because he was on hard drugs.".

I don't think people are saying it's OK he was shot but he didn't help his cause any.

Have you ever tried to reason with a person on PCP?

You can't they don't think normally and feel invincible, they don't feel pain so that could be why the taser had no effect. I'm just saying you exponentially increase your chances of being shot by not following instructions.

Especially in these times of high distrust and anxiety why not follow instruction? Why resist? Doesn't make sense. Killing is wrong protect yourself be smart. What do you have to lose by following instructions?

If he was truly on PCP and his size compared to the female officer and the taser had no effect and he was going to his SUV not knowing 100% at the time there was no weapon on him or in his SUV what would you have done? Your life is on the line police have been targeted.

Does a woman, one who ends up getting intoxicated while wearing revealing clothing, deserve to get raped at a party?

You'll say "what does rape have to do with this?", but I've read similar comments about hand waving with women getting raped.
-----------------------------------

Regardless of the action of the suspect, he was unarmed. The officer should have acted with non-lethal force. Common sense. I wouldn't shoot an unarmed individual, and especially one who kept his hands up.

Yeah you lost me here I have seen nothing about hand waving and rape, did a woman get drunk resist police instructions had her hands waving in the air and the police raped her?

-----------------------------------

Regardless of the action of the suspect, he was unarmed. The officer should have acted with non-lethal force. Common sense. I wouldn't shoot an unarmed individual, and especially one who kept his hands up. [/quote]

If they don't find PCP in his system with the toxicology report, finding PCP in his car means nothing. They didn't find it until after the shooting. So it will have no baring on her state of mind, which is going to be a central factor as to whether this shooting was justified. Her claim of fearing for her life is going to be based solely on what she knew at the time she pulled the trigger. If they find PCP in his body in the toxicology report, her expertise as a drug recognition expert is going to come into play, but if he's clean, she'll probably lose.

There are no winners. After 9 + years and no other known incidents I don't see an intentional shooting for no reason doesn't make sense.

The DA doesn't agree with you.

FYI

Eve worked in the FBI. She knows this stuff better than most.

They are the ones who have all the information, I'm just going by what I have read and seen on video.

I have learned something new then.

This is your basic Leftist comment.. You make it so Black and White.. When the individual is not being cooperative and starts to reach for something the split second to 100% be sure the individual has a gun can mean the difference in like or death of the cop.. Then on top of that if it is a gun you better make sure it's not a BB gun because them the cop gets dragged through the mud for not knowing the difference..
Here's a simpler solution.. Do what you're told when you're pulled over and be respectful and you'll go home to your family.

I wish someone like you could be put out on the streets for 1 week in some of these areas these cops have to go and have to face some of the things they have to face.

And I 100% agree with what GM said...
The way you just wrote it sounds a lot different then when GM said it..

I'n my world kids also got their ass beat for getting out of line. Lying, stealing, cheating, talking back to parents, or cops. It's funny none of them ever got shot by cops. But you young guys keep counting to three when your kids get out of line. Give them a dirty look when you catch them cheating. Give them a stern lecture when you catch them stealing. Keep teaching them that they can do anything or say anything they please to coaches, teachers, firemen, cops, and judges.

The world we grew up in was great wasn't it?

It was imperfect and had it's problems but at least it still contained common sense.

Unless you were a POC. Then you were still shot by cops.

I understand the attempted analogy. However, to equate a woman's provocative dress with failure to follow a directive given by a police officer is misguided. Additionally, you paint men as simpletons with this analogy imo.

One commonality in every incident we have discussed: failure to follow a directive given by an officer.

Learn from it or not.

No it's not

99.9% of these could have been avoided by following instructions.

I see a lot of MMQBing in these debates. Well if he wasn't actually on PCP at the moment then they could have done XYZ, if he didn't have a gun in the car they should have done XYZ, etc. Those are all things you find out after the fact. You have to make the decision in the moment without knowledge of those other things..

So how close should a cop have to get to allowing him/herself to be harmed/killed before they pull the trigger? That is usually what I see at the basis of these discussions.. the cop should have waited, the cop should have used other means, the cop should have done something different.. and it's usually based on information we know NOW that the cop didn't know at the moment. When the person won't stop when told to stop and begins reaching under his jacket or into his car, what is he reaching for? You don't get to wait to find out, you have to GUESS right now. And if you guess wrong, YOU could be the one in the video lying in the street dead.

I also see comments a lot that they could use non-lethal force, like tasers and other things.. Ok, fair enough but you can't go up to a person who is not obeying with three different options of weapons in your hand. This isn't a video game where you can switch from weapon A to weapon B in an instant by pushing a button on your controller. Whichever weapon you grab first is the one you will probably have to start and finish the encounter with.. and if you pick the non-lethal one, then again, you might be the one lying in the street.

I'm not a cop, I don't understand the nuances of how they are trained to handle these situations, I don't understand how they are trained to decide between lethal and non-lethal weapons.. I believe there is probably room to improve in this area... but damn, a lot of people act like it should just be so easy to make the decisions and usually they come from the post-event perspective where we have all of the facts that the cop on the scene didn't have.

There is enough blame on both sides of the coin.

The drug/PCP excuse does not appear valid. If you take drugs and are impaired enough to be unable to follow commands or realize what you are doing, it's your chosen risk. Why should others be at risk be cause of a poor choice you made?

I agree with Eve, it does appear to be a training issue with officers. Who knows? Ask devildawg. He lives it.

But, I know how teachers get blamed for things out of their control too. This attitude enables poor classroom behavior. Perhaps it does the same on the street.

However, I feel offficers are so frightened for their lives that they have chosen to take no risks.
It will take effort on both sides of this coin to stop the killings and create the change we all hopefully want to see...peace.

Police officer deaths have been trending downward for years. It's safer to be a policemen today than it was 10 or 20 years ago. Why are they more fearful?

Dallas mean anything to you?

And what about the other 20kabillion murders that happened in the past 2 years before "Dallas".

Meh, still not convinced its not Cop Assisted Suicides.

followed up with

Here's the problem in the world now. Lot of people believe this. Leader of NAACP says doesn't matter if he had a gun in Charlotte
doesn't matter if he had a gun

Just read another story also where Al Sharpton wants to make it illegal for a white person to kill a black person under any circumstance

5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black. According to Mac Donald, the police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.

(And since we always like to point out whites outnumber blacks in the population I believe blacks outnumber police)

Despite the facts, the anti-police rhetoric of Black Lives Matter and their leftist sympathizers have resulted in what Mac Donald calls the "Ferguson Effect," as murders have spiked by 17 percent among the 50 biggest cities in the U.S. as a result of cops being more reluctant to police neighborhoods out of fear of being labeled as racists. Additionally, there have been over twice as many cops victimized by fatal shootings in the first three months of 2016.

Anti-police rhetoric has deadly consequences

Taken from

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler#

Study on Caucasion and African Americans in Relation to Officer Deaths

From the article:


But, I doubt this will do much because

What does any of that have to do with what I said? Are you saying that being a police officer is 18x as dangerous as being a black person? Because that doesn't seem like something to be proud of considering that police do.

Also the stats still show that policeman are far safer in 2012-2016 than 1982-1986. Whatever though, I'm done. Too many people have quick! stats to try to defend everything even when it doesn't.

Whatever though, I'm done.





Somehow I don't think that's true

My feelings are more important than your facts, CHS.

No evidence of gun on the suspect on the video feed. He steps out of the car, officers have guns pointed at him, the suspect saunters around, and the officers gun him down.

They claim gun, but both of the hands look free of any object.

Ugh....why?!

Edit: Video is grainy. Can't really tell what is in his hands (if anything), but no pointing of any weapon at any officer.

Well if you and the rest of the leftists get their way those numbers will go the other way.

Why is he sauntering around? Why doesn't he just stand still and do what he's told? Why does he even approach his vehicle? Why

We need retraining on the rules of engagement for police officers.

My question from all of this would be...

Why would police from all different cities throughout the USA male, female. black, white, Asian and different ages target blacks?

you need to stop spewing this racist logic!

You know it's funny nobody in my neck of the woods has ever been shot by a cop during a traffic stop, or in their home when they behaved themselves. Not white, black, brown, yellow, or red.

We need retraining of the idiots who will not follow the cops instructions. We also need convictions of a cop who does really screw up and shoot's somebody who was complying.

I think something the BLM protestors need to realize is that they are getting what they want. There are police departments being heavily investigated after these police shootings. Baltimore PD got exposed as being very corrupt.

Maybe the victims they protest for don't recieve justice, but removing corrupt cops should be what their end goal is. People can defend the shootings, but they can't defend the agencies because more and more are being exposed.

At the end of the day, BLM is winning but for some reason don't realize it. It's why I don't understand the protests.

Poor policing must be identified, removed and training completed to avoid it.

With that being said, common sense must prevail.

Anyone who has seen the video(s) must admit, this individual was given several orders to drop the gun.

OK. Now, to believe this was an intentional act, one must believe the following:

This black officer went to the scene to choreograph the death of an individual.

His repeated orders to drop the gun were nothing more than staging for the camera and there was no weapon.

This scene was an intentional murder of an individual. And most will believe, an innocent individual has lost his life.

Scenario over.

Was there a weapon? If not, what percipitated the repeated orders to drop the gun?

Perhaps another object that resembled a gun? Anyone who believes this officer repeatdly gave orders to drop a gun without an object resembling a gun present, must be living in make believe.

This theory makes no sense.

Could he have had another object in his hand and refused orders to drop it? Perhaps. I would not want my son, as the officer, trying to determine that if his life depended upon it. When given an order, drop "whatever" is in your hand. Problem solved.

Did he not drop it because of his TBI? Perhaps. If this is the case, why was he in posession of a weapon?

To believe some of the accusations mentioned above and leveled on this thread makes it increasingly evident we lack common sense that skews our ability to realistically evaluate a situation like this.

This backs up the case for not releasing the vids early to a bunch of idiots who it will make no difference to.

I still say many of these cases are simply Suicides by Cop.

Where else can one get so much attention before and after they die?

And if the rightests get their way, the cops will be replaced with Nazis. See how making irrational statements, like yours, just sound dumb when someone destroys your world view with correct statistics.

And if the rightests get their way, the cops will be replaced with Nazis. See how making irrational statements, like yours, just sound dumb when someone destroys your world view with correct statistics.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html

Your statistics appear to be outdated.

How's the world going today with even more mass shootings?

No it's not. Read the chart... "Officers feloniously killed"... Look at your statistics that say it includes data for officers who drown, electrocute themselves to death, are causalities in an airplane, etc., etc. So yeah, great statistics if you want to know how many biplanes killed officers last year, but horrible if you want to quantify how dangerous it is to be a cop when they have to interact with humans.


BTW my statistics might "appear" outdated -- they aren't -- but they still prove my point.

1982-1986 927 Officers Died

2011-2015 656 officers died.

So even with fake stats my point still stands. Of course the right wing posters will never acknowledge this post because it gets in the way of their narrative.

You're outed CHS. Admit it and move on. "Might" appear outdated. Geezh!

What did you out me on? The fact that it's still safer to be a police officer today than it was in the 80's? Did you out me on being a Decepticon sympathizer because I don't think we should talk about biplane on police violence in conversations about inner city violence? Do tell.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/the-history-of-u-s-police-deaths-in-the-line-of-duty/

The number of police deaths for this time of year was down 12 percent.
But the number of police officers killed by firearms was up 17 percent. That echoes findings from the pro-gun-control Brady Campaign in May. The group concluded that at that time, the number of officers murdered by guns was up 70 percent.

Nazi Germany.

Charlotte Police: 70% Of Rioters Arrested Are Out Of State "Instigators"

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Fraternal Order of Police spokesman Todd Walther told CNN's Erin Burnett Thursday night that 70% of those arrested in race riots in that city this week were not locals.

"This is not Charlotte that's out here," he said. "These are outside entities that are coming in and causing these problems. These are not protestors, these are criminals."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2..._state_ids.html

Proof it. Release all the names of the arrested rioters and their home town.

Even if what he says is true, it only goes to show that in these situations it's only a very small percentage of people actually being arrested for anything and that it not a representation of the actual community.

Of course I'm sure he has some added conspiracy theory about the DNC or Hillary being behind it all. lol

Videos, Police statements, lists of names, all a waste of time with you Liberals. You will cling to your false narratives.

This would seem to indicate otherwise

Will we see anything like the LA riots of the 90's in terms of pure violence?

BLM protest brewing right now in El Cajon, CA. The protesters dropped the old "hands up, don't shoot" chant in favor of "fist up, fight back"

I have a bad feeling about this.

I see there was another suicide by cop in San Diego.

I just read about what happened a little bit ago. I'm going to wait for more information to come out before making any judgements. Hopefully the protests stay peaceful.

I saw the photos.
Dude comes out of the car with his hands wrapped around each other and pointing them at the cops, gun like.

I only read one article about it and didn't see that. That would be similar to the shooting that happened in Fresno a while back.

Here it is...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/california-police-shooting/

There's gonna be riots on Election Day. Doesn't matter which side wins, it will be ugly.

POLICE SHOOT 6-YEAR-OLD AUTISTIC BOY DEAD, BUT HE’S WHITE SO NO ONE CARES

Police officers shot and killed a 6-year-old autistic boy during an incident in Louisiana, but the boy was white, wasn’t holding a gun and didn’t have a long criminal record, so don’t expect any protests or national media attention.

http://www.infowars.com/police-shoot-6-year-old-autistic-boy-dead-but-hes-white-so-no-one-cares/

What I don't get in all this BLM rage, is that so far this year double the killing's have been white ppl. But you never here about that.

Based on that pathetically written article, it still sounds like the cops fired when they didn't need to.

And it's just as disgusting when you use the tragic death of a 6 year old boy to make a political point as it is when somebody else does it, whether you are rioting or not.

This was on the news with video of the shooting. They were just shooting into the car blindly and the dad was trying to hold his hands up. The child was in the passenger seat. Its an abomination.

I couldn't agree more.

If you had to guess, how many white people are in the United States compare to blacks?

Does that make white peoples deaths less important?

that's not what i'm getting at.
maybe
i worded it wrong? And don't get me wrong I see 1st. hand here.
Guess what I meant was it doesn't or shouldn't mater the color of your skin. And that we have a problem either with training or back ground check's .

No it makes white people apathetic. If you don't care enough to lift a finger when cops shoot white people, that is not the problem of black people...

What if.. and I know this is crazy... white people and black people actually worked together to just bring down violence.. black on black violence, white on white violence, black on white violence, men on women violence, cop violence... y'know, all of it. What if we just looked at it as "VIOLENCE" and stopped breaking up by demographics and thought, 'You know, I bet we can do better."


Nah... never gonna happen.

From other articles I am reading, it appears the dad led police on a high speed chase and finally crashed into one of the officers cars or someone's car. Facts are still coming in.

It is a tragedy but I will withhold my personal judgement on the incident until all the facts are in.

Not going to loot and burn the town.

I guess you have never seen a BLM rally because there are just as many white people as black people there.

(What if.. and I know this is crazy... white people and black people actually worked together to just bring down violence.. black on black violence, white on white violence, black on white violence, men on women violence, cop violence... y'know, all of it. What if we just looked at it as "VIOLENCE" and stopped breaking up by demographics and thought, 'You know, I bet we can do better.")

You know this will never happen.And i'm not going to get into it as to why. You as most on here know why. And it Suck's! plane and simple. I wish ppl could look at life as a one time ride on a roller coaster. there are up's down's with a lot of in between crap that real doesn't matter. All that matter's is you live life like it end's tomorrow.

No, it makes White people more willing to allow the system to figure out what really happened, facts over emotions, and see the final outcome, like all good Americans should.

I have to disagree with you on this DC.

Exactly WHAT makes white people apathetic? In reading this story, I figured it happened a day or 2 ago. But no, it was pretty much 11 months ago.

I certainly never saw it the press.

I certainly never heard of whites rioting, looting, burning down the town/city. Did you?

Just imagine if it had been a black dad, with his black autistic son, and 2 white cops that did the shooting. Killing a 6 year old. That they admit "I didn't see the kid".

Apathetic white people? Or people that allowed/are allowing the justice system to work? Bet insurance companies are glad there wasn't rioting.

Dude - it happened last november. The facts are in.

I've been consistent in saying it's a training issue and not a racial issue. However, when I try to bring that up people come out of the woodwork to dehumanize the victim in every situation.

Yes, I didn't see that, the Judge just released the Video the other day. The facts are still coming in because the trials have yet to be held.

The case resulted in the indictments of two marshals on second degree murder and second degree attempted murder.

Calm has ruled and justice is being done. The system works.

Apathetic in the sense that if you are white, you can allow the justice system to work and have some comfort that justice will be done.. Many blacks have no such level of comfort..

Apathetic in the sense that I see how the article was written.. nobody rioted? kind of makes it sound like they expect to be congratulated for that.. or that makes white America better than black America... doesn't it?

But mostly apathetic in the sense that white people minimize these problems and place a ton of faith in a criminal justice system that has failed a lot of people, especially black people... and whether or not the person who is wronged is a black man or a white woman or rich or poor, we should all stand up against that. I'm not condoning rioting and looting stores, that does no good... but white people need to stop hiding behind "the justice system" if it is not working equally for everybody.

I happen to think we have the finest justice system in the world on paper... but it's still run by people and people still have biases and if we aren't constantly trying to root out those biases so that the justice systems works the same for everybody.... then we are apathetic.

Then, let's create robot cops with no human bias to suit your logic.

Humans have beliefs, biases and thoughts, right or wrong. They always will.

I agree, and disagree - if I can pull a john kerry here.

Black person gets shot by white cop: riots, looting, racism charges. All before a trial. Hell, all before the facts are even out.

White dad and kid shot by cops. 1 year ago. 6 year old kid killed. I never heard about it until today.

Some people want to make it seem as if cops are out actively hunting blacks. And friend, that just ain't true.

This is nonsense. The police officers were indicted for murder, which is a huge difference than what has happened with police (regardless of race) that have unjustly shot and killed black people. That's the difference.

This is a tragedy. It's very sad for this kid and devastating for this kid's family. I don't mean to minimize the incident, but to act like this is being treated with less consequences than the other high profile cases is the opposite of true.

thank you.

I agree and disagree. As to white's having trust in the justice system, yes to a point. But black,s I don't believe it has any thing to with the system.It has every thing to do with history and the biggest reason is the media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2016/09/30/teen-who-walked-two-hours-to-work-surprised-by-cop-who-buys-him-bike/?hpid=hp_no-name_hp-in-the-news%3Apage%2Fin-the-news

To bad we don't hear more about these situations.

I don't think George Soros gets talked about enough. The dude is an economic terrorist. He pays professional rioters to travel to these cities and cause destruction. Once these small businesses are destroyed, Soros buys them for pennies on the dollar. He has warrants out on him in Russia for the same crap. He's been doing this since he was young too. He sold Jewish people to Hitler for a profit during WWII.

It really is.

These types of stories are all over the place, but honestly, I don't really blame the media for not putting them out there. I think law enforcement as a profession and local gov'ts are more to blame for that.

One of the most frustrating things for me post Ferguson was that a number of police departments started to do damage control in a marketing sense. People were pissed off about Ferguson and agencies wanted to (finally) start showing the "good" side of cops. That led to "Hey look! This officer is shooting hoops with that lonely kid!" "This cop bought lunch for a homeless guy!" I st there in disbelief because showing a cop shooting hoops is nothing in the way of educating people about the facts of a high profile, deadly incident. Shooting hoops isn't going to make rioters say "Gee, I guess we were wrong".

Everyday (and night) cops are doing the classic "cops and robbers". Not trying to toot my own horn, but last week I got one of our trainees in a foot chase with a home invasion suspect. He and his crew hit 4 houses and kidnapped one person. He later rolled on the rest. That never made the news. That was never released by our department. That will never be discussed outside of anyone with a badge and their families. Why?

Police admins and City Councils don't want you the public to hear about all that because if people heard about those kinds of stories they would be skeptical of them when they tell you it's a safe city.

Think about it for a second: if your local news reported that your local PD recovered 12 stolen cars and captured 4 subjects who committed multiple robberies each week... most would think that's pretty cool but then they'd start to wonder just how safe it really is.

This is why there's really only a few kinds of awards we have that are made public annually in my city. You have life saving awards for officers who have done things like talk suicidal people off a bridge or did CPR. Ooh! They saved a life! Or you get the kinds where your DWI enforcement squad gets recognized for hundreds of DWI arrests that year. Ooh, they got drunks off the road!

Important things obviously, but they don't tell the whole story and they do nothing to educate the public just what most police work consists of. So while I have the utmost disdain for people like Kenneth Scotts family in Charlotte spreading the lie about him having a book, I completely understand why few people have any understanding as to a) why the cops where interacting with him, and b) why they took the actions they took.

It's why I'm excited that our agency plans to start running a Citizens Academy next year. I've been complaining how we don't have one for awhile. Problem is we may not have anyone to run it as we have officers leaving the department akin to rats on a sinking ship.

Wow Devil, your colleagues bailing is a concern for our society.

But, hey, can anyone blame them? Most probably have a family and kids counting on them to be there. When the risks outweigh the benefits, some will find it in their best interest to move on.

Please stay safe and know that the majority of thinking and law abiding American citizens appreciate and respect the job you do and realize the necessity and importance of it.

God Bless!

Sergeant killing a 'calculated execution,' LA County sheriff says

LOS ANGELES – A gunman first shot and wounded a Los Angeles County sheriff's sergeant before standing over him and pumping four bullets into his body, Sheriff Jim McDonnell says

The new comments came Thursday in the death of Sgt. Steven Owen, which McDonnell called a "calculated execution."

The 53-year-old Owen was shot while responding to a report of a burglary in progress Wednesday at an apartment building in Lancaster.

Owen went behind the building, where the gunman shot him with a stolen gun then stood over his body and fired four more times, McDonnell said at a news conference.

"He then unsuccessfully searched the body for the sergeant's weapon, with the intent to use it to murder the first responding deputy," the sheriff said.

Trenton Trevon Lovell, 27, of Lancaster was arrested in the killing.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/10/07/la-county-sheriff-sergeant-killing-calculated-execution.html

This type of ignorance should have its own thread

http://people.com/crime/female-police-of...lvania-reports/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thugs-young-15-filmed-beating-8245160

Is this what we really intended?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...1006-story.html

thats not even in this country

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/10/...out-by-suspect/

Wonder how many of these have to do with drugs? Interesting

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/02/23/police-officer-injured-in-shooting-identified/

Sorry! These incidents are just as important as any other. Difference is we don't see chaos, insanity and rioting in the streets and destruction of personal property.

Time to begin discussing these issues as well.

Yes. I know. But this entire world seems unsettled and violent.

It's all the fault of BLM. Now they're ruining the world.

I think it has more to do w/lawlessness, lack of respect for authority, entitlement, lack of accountability, drug use, poverty, and dysfunctional families.

But, that's just me.

So basically government corruption.

Play your immature, petty games w/someone else. I'm not in the mood.

I believe a lot of it boils down to this.....

When you live within a system that doesn't work, you create your own system.

Our system is broken. Prosecutors are politicians. They are elected. In most cases, their objective is to have an extremely high conviction rate for the purpose of getting re-elected. That isn't what the justice system should be focused on.

And the evidence is clear that minorities get much stiffer sentences on average than whites for the same crimes. At some point that will create anarchy.

I don't uphold the violence and crime associated with such anarchy, yet on some level I understand it.

I agree that the system is broken. We just disagree on which side is more broken.

We are teaching our kids in school that it is okay to defy authority. We are teaching them that they don't have to follow rules. We are teaching them that they are entitled to things w/out working for them. We are teaching them coming from an unstable family gives them more rights. We are teaching them work ethic doesn't mean much.

Then, we wonder why these same people have problems w/the law later on.

I have to say that when I was young and growing up, mainly in the 70's, we thought the exact same way. Now you are correct we may not have been taught that way, even though my history teacher did agree with me about questioning authority, many of us were quite rebellious.

I'm not really sure we are disagreeing. I certainly am disgusted with the violence and crime associated with what people are doing in the name of what they see as injustice. What they are doing is doling out injustice to many that have nothing to do with it.

Understanding what's behind their actions and agreeing with their actions are two entirely different things my friend.

I will however remind you of the violence associated with the Vietnam war, the Weather Underground and Kent state. This really isn't anything new.

Socrates said this eons ago, Vers. Pitt is right. This isn't anything new.

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”
― Socrates

I agree w/your latest post. I was disputing that all the blame goes on the cops and how people ignore that our excuse-making, entitlement-building society is a real problem.

I question authority, but I also respect authority. I also don't expect handouts. I was very poor growing up, we never asked for a thing and we didn't talk about it w/anyone. Our answer was to work harder.

I certainly agree with you. That's how I was raised as well.

Rocket, I am not talking about the children. I am talking about the system that is harming the children.

I don't blame the children. They are just acting accordingly to how they are being raised.

Throwing bricks off of bridges, beating up random people, destroying property, looting, setting fires, spitting in the face of a police officer you never even met, etc, etc are NOT answers!

They simply further the divide!

Nope, I agree with that, and add that a lack of Faith is another factor.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Let's not forget this one.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-charged-in-shooting-death-of-st-louis-county-police-officer/

I wonder if they were killing Law Enforcement when Socrates said what he said. I don't think things are the same at all.

I bet that has happened throughout history as well.

The Roman Empire controlled a huge part of the world in the time of Jesus. There were Jews, the Zealots, who violently opposed Roman rule.

I bet it was the same in other parts of the Empire.

Any time there is a power, someone will oppose it.

yea, good point.

Of course they were. You think criminals were just giving themselves up to law enforcement in ancient Athens? They just put their hands over their head, say some aphorism and then haul themselves to jail? No way.