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He's talking about Kaiser, not Kessler.

Kizer??

I just went through the "2016 post draft" thread...read 4 of the 5 pages there. I couldn't find one person saying "man we should have drafted Dak" not one.

I wanted to drat him, 3rd/4th round, but knew we wouldn't as soon as he got the DUI.

100% agree.

We shouldn't be interested in Jimmy G (in the off chance he becomes available) because no Brady backup has ever done anything once they left New England, but drafting a Notre Dame QB makes sense?

People were discussing drafting Dak before the draft, despite what another poster [who also defends Art Briles, btw] says. I only remember one poster who mentioned Kessler and that was quickly shot down.

Missing on the qb position this year is a black eye for the FO.

No left overs from other teams, please. I agree.

We keep doing that crap, and it never works. Hell, we got two currently on the sidelines injured.

I rather them take Watson with our first overall than to try and trade/sign a backup to be our starter.

Hell, I rather roll with Cody than do leftovers again. We just need to stop that nonsense.

Jimmy G is not a leftover. He is a promising young qb that is far better than Kessler and more than likely better than any qb who is eligible for this draft.

If it makes you warm and fuzzy on the inside to say I'm calling them liars, then go for it. I'll say that both sides are "playing the game". Do you mind telling me, from a public perception angle, what good it would do for either side to say otherwise?

1. The more teams in the mix the better for Mack. An increased market means increased demand means increased pay day.

2. For the FO, publicly dismissing a fan favorite wouldn't spell out a good start for them in Day 1 (or leading up to it) of FA.

I can't help you if you can see that portion of it.

Regarding Twitter....you share another sign of naivety. Like or not, Twitter is one of the leading platforms (if not THE leading platform) for journalism these day. I'm not a fan of that, but it's the truth. I don't mean random things people just blurt out to the internet. I mean things from credible people with knowledge of the Browns...like this:


https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/788015176041848837?lang=en

This is Daryl Reiter. He is a Browns' beat writer. He is in Berea every single day. He has sources. Whether you choose to accept that is up to you, but to diminish Twitter as a means for legitimate and good information is foolish to say the least.

I'm throwing the BS flag at that one. We have a slew of draft picks that we haven't even made yet - not to mention another slew who are 6 games into their careers - before such a declaration can be said without qualifying it. Not to mention that Wentz has played a whopping 6 games and is as much a captain checkdown as CK.

I blame the Manziel implosion on why we didn't pick Dak. We weren't going there...no way. I'll let you blame someone for the Manziel pick. I don't care anymore and haven't for a long time.

All things/circumstances/developments considered, my only real question with the FO at the moment is going into the season with Poyer as our ONLY Free/cover S. Good guy...good backup...but he's just one guy...who is a backup. Now we don't even have him back there.

You can get as huffy as you like and spin the argument however you want. In fact, I didn't even read most of your reply.

I originally responded to this comment by Daman:



It's not a proven fact. I posted an article that refutes his claim. Guys on a message board saying the same thing over and over and over again does not make a lie become fact.

mac, I was refuting 101's claim that no one talked about DAK before the draft. That is another untruth.

I hear you on the "other teams' leftovers - while I think we got away from that until the RG3-combo-with-McCown this year...but the point remains no less.

I'd trade for Jimmy G in a heartbeat so long as it wasn't for ANY of our 1st Rd Picks and probably not our first, 2nd Rd pick either. Which means we won't get him because - if they are even willing to let him go - someone will outbid us. And I'm ok with that actually.

There is not a college QB in the game today worthy of a top 5 pick IMO. For the 2017 draft, I'm picking a QB, but not with any of our first three picks.

And saying that we didn't try to keep him a million times doesn't make it true either.

Did we make him an offer, yes! And he took a different offer. I may have this part backwards..

The offer he accepted was less money overall, but more guaranteed. I think that's the way it went.

Look, say whatever you want, but Mack set this up several years ago when Farmer blew it.

So, I'm sticking with, he was gone unless we WAY OVER PAID.

Even then, I'm not sure he'd have stayed...

Which is why I copied a quote from a beat writer about Mack's status.

What you posted are quotes to the media. How does that refute anything? Are you implying that all quotes from a FO, player, agent, etc. are inherently honest? In free agency/draft time no less?...The biggest smoke screen season ever?

If so, WOW!

I never said that the Browns didn't try to keep him. I said I posted an article about it and the Browns actually flew him into Cleveland from California to discuss a new contract. Obviously, they tried.

I am saying that there is no factual proof that he was going to walk no matter what, and that you guys repeating it over and over and over isn't going to change that.

I just wish people would be truthful.

What?

Gibberish.

Farmer didn't blow it. Banner did...add Ward to that as well. Farmer took over as GM leading up to Mack's FA and had to make a number of decisions in very little time while incorporating Pettine's needs/wants.

Farmer blew it on Schwartz.

By blowing it, I mean, should have locked these players up before they hit FA year.

Solid response. You usually go this route when you can't refute anything.

Refute what? You are steering the debate into something that fits your crusade.

I am saying this.................Repeating that Mack was gone no matter what over and over and over again does NOT make it true.

I am also saying that if guys wanted out of here, like so many of you apologists suggest, that it is even a bigger indictment on where this team is at under the direction of Jimmy Haslam.

I am also saying that trying to be fair is better than be one-sided.

That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less!

Now, go ahead and throw out another insult. The "Others" will be along shortly to support you. LOL

You may be right about Banner,, Things seem to run together over time.

But didn't Schwartz leave after Farmer was gone. I mean, he was here last year and Farmer was here also, but then Farmer was fired so doesn't that let it fall into the current FO time frame? please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not sure of all the circumstances surrounding Schwartz, I don't know why this FO didn't keep him.... not sure.

^ I don't think anyone necessarily disputes that. But that's not what you said. You claimed because Mack and the FO were quoted to a news publication around FA/draft time, and that their words were then 100% true and to be taken at face value. And anyone who questioned those quotes are calling them liars. Others, particularly me, say that this posturing in the public media is part of the game. Many don't believe that what is said the media means squat, whether for a article or a press conference.

And no, repeating Mack was gone no matter what over and over again does not make it true. Nor does referencing a quote for an media-type over and over again mean the opposite.

What people do weigh in this situation, whether you want to or not, is what information is provided privately, in the form of sources and information beat reporters get. Or the fact that beat reporters are around the players every day and know where their at with certain things. That's were that quote came from, and there are more like it.

Sounds like someone else entirely is getting huffy in this debate.

It's not obvious to me. I think blowing this team up and starting over was the priority. The lower cap (or saving money as you claim) was a byproduct of that approach.

The Jury is still out on Wentz. I watched some of the Eagles game this week and he looked much more like a rookie. The book may be out on him and we need to see how the rest of his season goes.

Colt McCoy looked good at times his rookie year, only to flounder. Not saying McCoy=Wentz, but saying let's wait and see what happens before judging the talent evaluators.

Then you didn't look hard enough.

There were several of us.

That being said, he had a bunch of off the field problems and hindsight is always 20/20.

deleted..

I forgot. On the old board you was on the Matt cassel bandwagon.

I'm good on patriot leftovers, thanks.

I don't want hoyer back.

Ryan mallet is a joke.

No jimmy G. He can snake bite another franchise.

What?

Maybe so but Jimmy hasn't shown he can be consistent and take a bunch of hits and get right back into a rhythm like Cody K has. Give Kessler what Jimmy G has and we could probably make a much better comparison analysis.

Bill Belichick?

I get all that, but you either have the arm or you don't.

Has anyone even considered why our running game went from first in the league to downright pathetic?

Do you guys really believe that Crow and Duke got worse? Or that the OL is that much worse than it was a few weeks ago?

Have any of you considered that teams don't fear Kessler and our game planning to stop the run and daring Kessler to beat them, which in and of itself, would inflate his numbers?

Ever even considered it?

This is exactly the problem. 8 or 9 guys in the box on every play with no worry that Kessler is going to take the top off of the defense.

I think Kessler has improved a lot, but he is at best going to be a back-up in this league. He just doesn't have enough of an arm to scare anyone.

Yeah, I have been impressed w/his poise for the most part. His decision making has been pretty good. He makes plays at times. He seems to be football smart. He is playing well overall.

It's just that he has limitations and those types of limitations typically catch up w/you sooner or later. Teams are already figuring out how to beat the Browns.

I haven't noticed that much. I see the pocket collapsing with four and five man rushes. Maybe you're talking about early downs. But even then, I don't see an unordinary amount of stacking the line. Teams know we're weak up front, no reason to stack the box, IMO.

Show up? Play football?

They are doing it to stop the run. Not Kessler.