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here is Boylharts take:
Strengths
Travis has really good size and speed for the WR position. He is a strong runner and can handle a physical CB without any problems. He runs good routes and can go up and get the ball in a crowd. Travis has the look of a #1 WR for the next level.
Needs to Improve
He is coming off an ankle injury and still doesn’t show the quickness in and out of his breaks that he had before the injury. He is inconsistent catching the ball and has to show that he can receive the ball from a QB with an NFL arm.
Bottom Line
In his junior year, Travis looked like he was going to be a 1st round pick. I believe an injury and change of QB has set him back a bit. I really don’t think he is all the way back from his ankle injury because I have noticed that he rounds off his routes a lot and is having all sorts of consistency problems catching the ball. I really do feel that these concerns can be addressed by a little more hard work and concentration. Travis seemed to be very frustrated this year and all of these issues lumped together will make him fall in this draft unless he can show in his workouts and interviews that this is all behind him. Sometimes, players are victims of their own press clippings and start to relax in their development and take things for granted. I believe that Travis learned the most important lesson that a young player can learn. Just when you think you've made it -– that’s when you have to work harder to prove it to others. I think Travis is going to be a good player for the team that drafts him and a fan favorite. I think he will impact quicker because of his struggles this year. It’s all about how well you handle adversity. The good ones become better. Travis is going
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Boylhart on Pool:
Strengths
Brodney is a big, powerful, fast safety. He has a lot of potential to be an impact player at the next level. He has good athleticism, some cover skills and he could be an impact special teams player while he learns the pro game.
Needs to Improve
Right now Brodney does everything based on being a very good athlete. He has a lot to learn at the next level.
Bottom Line
Brodney is a size/ speed ratio type of pick in this draft that can help you on special teams as he learns to be a true safety in the NFL. He should be able to make some impact plays in the nickel-dime package and just might have some ability to play CB in the red zone against those big, tall WR’s. Right now, Brodney is considered to be a 1st round pick and I have no problems with that because of his special teams impact potential; however, I think for me, personally, I would pick Donte Nicholson instead. He is further along in his development and should have the same impact on special teams as Brodney. Donte is a little more locked in the hips, so his cover skills might not be as good as Brodney’s, but you know what I say about that -- coach better!
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I think alot of us thought 10 was possible up until that moment we lost Bentley. After that i think u had to squeeze an ounce of optimism out of the fans and also from the browns players. It didnt get any better after Bodden and Baxter went down lol.
The positive is we play a lot of mid level and below teams this year. Also the law of average says we eventually gotta win a couple of divisional games lol.
49ers, Cards, Seahawks, Rams, Raiders, Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Texans are all teams that arent all that. I dont think the Browns are scared of anyone on there.
We may have a ways to go but i think this year we could come out with a much better record than what we should have.
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Quote:
Ammo: I love your optimism and enthusiasm. But what happens if the team struggles? You will be calling for heads. Temper it, man.
I'm trying to remain cautiously optimistic.
My main thing is the running game will dictate our season. I can't predict either way until I see the running game in the preseason.
I want to believe we were a 7-9 team last season if we had a running game. That's a big IF, I know.
I like to think we're one of the hardest teams to gauge because of our inexperience combined with potential.
Running the ball effectively will make us anywhere from a 7-9 to a 9-7 team. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I have never seen a team that ran the ball well have a dreadful record. Losing record? yes, but not dreadful.
Will I be calling for heads? I don't know, depends on how we look. If we look dreadful like this past year yet our team is relatively healthy, the O-line is playing better and Lewis is running well, then absolutely.
Let me re-word that: If it looks like the talent is there and something's just not looking right, that's when I call for heads. If we look like we're overmatched talent-wise, then I won't.
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dawglover: I think you would win that bet. LOL Diam: Quote:
I think u made one major phooba in this thread ...
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there has been a lot of talk recently about how we have upgraded so much in regards to talent
u state that .. and then u proceed to COMPARE US TO THE REST OF THE NFL and not last years team ...
the statement u made was that WE IMPROVED not how we compare to the rest of the NFL ... u should ahve compared us to last year or changed the premise to ...
ALTHOUGH we HAVE IMPROVED were still laggin behind in 07 in the TALENT/EXPERIENCE categories ... therefore RAC should'nt be expected to win ..
Uhmmm.........that was the premise and I think most people understood that.
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At this point in time, the Browns have one of the very worst set of quarterbacks in the entire NFL.
thats debatable in that there are ALOT OF NFL QB SITUATIONS THAT ARE ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE going into 07 ...
our division is by far one of the best in QB'S with palmer and ben and mcnair .. but when u get outside of our division ... and this is not to say that this year were going to get even solid play from our QB position .. (onloy way that happens is if BQ suprises even me .. *L*) ...
KC .. HORRIBLE ...
Oakland .. *LOL* at this years QB's ..
Denver ... hey .. the CRITERIA IS THIS YEAR ...
Jackonsviles qb are WORSE THAN OURS .. they ALL STINK ... *L*
Houston .... exactly what are they hanging there hats on???
Tennessee .... they have a GREAT RB playing QB ..
Buffalo ... JP Losman?? PLEASE .....
Atlanta ... I'd take any of ours over Vick .. remember were talking QB here .. *L*
Washington ... i'm guessing Brunnel is gone .. so that leaves them with a VERY UNPROVEN Jason Campell ..
Detroit ... John Kitna a BACK UP ... he STINKS ..
Minnisota ... *LOL* .. PUTRID ...
thats alot of teams with some HORRIBLE HORRIBLE QB'ING ...
ours is going to be PRETTY BAD .. but theres alot of teams out there in as bad or WORSE shape than us ....
I did say ONE of the worst. And we do have one of the worst QB situations in the league for this upcoming season. I made it clear I wasn't talking about the future.
And I don't know what you are thinking, but some of those QBs are quite a bit better than whoever will start for us.
Losman had a damn good year last year. Everyone knew he had the talent before he was drafted, but the question w/him was his attitude. All I know is that he played pretty damn good last year, and their running game was poor. Oh, and their OL was also one of the worst in football. Losman is far superior to anyone we have...you know..........for this upcoming year. 
Kitna threw for over 4,000 yds. last year. How many yds. did Charlie throw for? He is also experienced and will play better than anyone we have this year.
Huard in KC played extremely well last year and that is why they said bye-bye to Green. Compare his numbers w/our guys.
Jax? Sorry, you are wrong again. If they were that desperate, they would have grabbed BQ. They thought about it, but didn't. We gave up the farm for him, but yeah.......our QB is going to better this year than theirs. LOL
Denver? Cutler played well last year and they have superior talent. Wanna make a little wager on who posts better numbers this year? LOL......you won't.
Tenn and Atl. You hate black QBs. Always have. You even ripped McNair and McNabb in their prime. Never gave Culpepper any credit when he had one of the greatest years in history. Young won games for them last year. To hell w/your style points. He won games for a team that had no business winning. And Vick was in the NFC Championship game a few years back, but yeah......our guys are better.
Shaub is unproven. But do you honestly think ANYONE would give up as much as they did to acquire Frye or Anderson? Man, you are killing me here.
Washington: The people there have a lot of confidence in the kid. I don't know if he's that good or not. Btw......did they draft BQ in the first? LOL
That leaves Minni and Oakland. And Oakland picked Russell over BQ. Yeah, we got a huge advantage there, alright. Any way you slice it or dice it.......we are ONE of the worst in the league in regards to our QB situation for THIS YEAR!
Diam....you are whacked w/that assessment and I know why too. 
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The Mighty Quinn: I don’t think he is going to be ready this year, but that won’t stop many of you from bitching enough until the Browns relent.
so there not suppose to bitch cause of your OPINION??? IS THAT HOW IT WORKS?? *LOL* ..
its nice to keep lumping him in with the rest of the QB's coming out of college ... just throw what Wies says out the window cause U know more about BQ and the NFL than he does ...
Yep........that's why. You are overly in love w/BQ and it is affecting your judgment. You can't even post rationally because of it.
And no.....I don't know more about BQ than the rest of the NFL does, but obviously, a lot of teams in the NFL did not agree w/you or Charlie's take on BQ. He fell like an anchor was attached to his ass. And save the explanation of how teams didn't need a QB. Hell, some of those same teams you listed as having worse QBs than us passed on him.
And I ain't even down on BQ. I just noticed some flaws in his mechanics when he is under pressure. It leads to him being inaccurate. And that was reported by quite a few people. It just isn't my take. And apparently, there were plenty of NFL scouts who saw the same thing.
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BQ was not the Brown’s best pick this year,
*LOL* .. OK .. whatever u say Vers ...
No.............I think Savage made that loud and clear when he took Joe at # 3 and left BQ on the board.
Look.......I think the kid has a chance to be good, but I don't feel it would be in his--or the teams best interest to start this year. Get the hell over your love affair w/the guy for a minute and start thinking rationally. Use your freaking head and not your heart. Jesus...........I really wasn't even knocking him. You are like an overprotective mother and you are saying that you would never say.
And please..........post about the rest. This wasn't really a BQ thread.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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post on the rest?? not a chance in hell ... you've taken alot of liberties at my expense and its never that big a deal .. but telling me i dont like black QB's . thats going a bit to far ...
SEE YA ..
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Django: Damn man..........you are on the ball.  Thanks for the reports. They help paint a clearer picture. I do have to laugh though because some of the things contradicted each other. I actually had a lot of mixed feelings as I read those reports. Overall, I was hoping they would be a little better. Some of the guys on this board have really talked him up. He has some flaws and lets face it.......anyone who plays a skill position at Oklahoma is not going to be fundamentally sound. I'm not knocking Stoops, but they have a unique style on both O and D that doesn't always translate to the NFL. And again.....I'm talking about their skill guys, most notably their QBs, WRs, and DBs. When I look at those profiles, the first thing I do is read the negatives. That usually is the best indicator of how to read them. Sometimes those weaknesses are fairly easy to overcome or not a big deal. Other times......they are the kiss of death. Let me ask you......what did you think of the profiles? Mourg: I agree w/you that the schedule is not as tough as last year's schedule. I do think Seattle will rebound though and Russell might just kill Leon....LOL. I also think that the schedule was extremely easy two years ago when we won 6 games. And this upcoming one isn't that easy. As far as Bentley goes........he was a big loss, but I doubt he cost them 6 games. *L* I know you didn't mean it that way. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
I can't seem to get this story to post. Here's the link.
http://www.chargers.com/news/headlines/news-1100160000.htm
It's about how well the Chargers rebuilt line played.
Thanks for the memories Pdawg. I went through this in 2003, and I can tell you how putrid the Charger OLine was. They tossed them out. 2 journeymen OL (Goff and Oben), 2 draft choices (Hardwick and Olivea) and one IR (Fonoti). They turned it around.
It is impressive to see how a benched QB can go to the Pro-Bowl the next year with improved OL play.
Frankly the Browns upgrades have been far more significant. Steinbach is a mega-dollar FA, and JT is a top 3 draft choice. I have always liked Fraley, and wish the best for LCB. We will find a player for RG. The Browns should have better OL play. If not, expect an OL coach change.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I always found it amazing that that particular line played so well. And they turned it around in one year. Their line has more talent now, but the OL from the article you posted....it's really hard to fathom how they played as well as they did.
bluecollar: Are you saying that BQ is going to start this year?
And yes, we need the D to step it up. I'll get to them shortly.
It would be great if we could actually run the ball. If we can accomplish that this year, and also stop the run........I will be one happy fan.........no matter what the record.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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One of the reasons the Bolts Oline came together is that they were pretty good at run blocking.
Marcus McNeil excelled at that at Auburn...he was just so strong as he could dominate his side..well their whole line was good at run blocking..
Shane Olivea was also a effective blocker at OSU ..
Oben played better at RT but he is also a journeymen...I know nothing about Mike Goff.
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I was wondering if what I said would confuse anyone.
Yes, they are good run-blockers, but this was before McNeil got there. SD has upgraded their OL since then, but this was back in 2004.
That's the line that surprised me.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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Can't wait till our line can "surprise" people.
Tired of seeing Casey Hampton plowing our guys.
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I was looking at the article that Pdawg couldn't post..but the fact is the Chargers have been a good rushing team for a while..most in part due to LT's style of running..
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Quote:
Great post Vers. I agree with just about everything you said. The only exception would be your take on Joe J. Maybe I read it wrong but are you saying he should be a 3rd receiver on THIS team?
No, that isn't what I meant. I must have not communicated it correctly. What I meant was that I believe he is most effective in that 3rd WR role, where he lines up in the slot and can take advantage of nickel backs, who are typically smaller in stature than the starters. Joe's size gives those guys a lot of problems and Joe does a great job on the drag route.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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I'd rather have a speedster in the slot.. they can take advantage of nickel backs, and also break away from them...
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Quote:
I'd rather have a speedster in the slot.. they can take advantage of nickel backs, and also break away from them...
Slot receivers should be able to block a bit though...look at how effectively Indy is at running out 3 receiver sets because they prioritize a slot WR who is physical.
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I went back and read it again and realize I probably read it too fast or something. I understand what your saying now about JJ. I also agree it would be great if we could get two guys to step up and he could become that slot receiver.
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Quote:
I was wondering if what I said would confuse anyone.
Yes, they are good run-blockers, but this was before McNeil got there. SD has upgraded their OL since then, but this was back in 2004.
That's the line that surprised me.
Fonouti self distructed with his weight, and Dielman stepped in and demonstrated that a converted DL could make it as an OL.
Oben hurt his foot in 05, and McNiel was drafted in 06 to fill the void. Oben is up there in years anyway, and when the foot did not heal, McNiel stepped in and filled the void. McNiel and Oben are on the radio here periodically, they are quite articulate.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
Let me ask you......what did you think of the profiles?
Well, re-reading the Pool-profile I had to think of what you keep saying about the guy....though Boylhart sounds like Pool could become a good player....for now he has predicted his path 100%....athlete first, will help on STs and make a play here and there on Nickel and Dime packages....let´s hope the rest of his prediction will materialize too....though it isn´t a Top50 pick profile imho, simply because he´s too raw for my gusto....Savage clearly was swinging for HRs in the 2005 draft....I understand, because he probably looked at our roster and saw no playmakers....but it´s kinda funny when you think of his "Singles and doubles"-references, isn´t it?
Even 2006....Wimbley looks like a player...but it was a HR-swing imho, lol
2007? Well, Thomas was a double, ok...but then Savage got HR-happy again  ....Quinn (considering the cost esp.) and Wright are also more boom or bust Hr-swings then doubles....
Oh, I´m getting off-topic....
Wilson profiles: Yeah, the contradictory scouting reports tell me 1 thing: this guy was NOT a consistent performer....and I don´t like it....again, this looks like a HR-swing pick....IF he puts it all together, he can be great..it´s all there in the reports....but when you think of:
1. his holdout
2. "I´m the best WR" comment
3. and his inconsitent play in College as a Senior, when they struggled at QB
I think it´s safe to say that:
1. he won´t ever be a TEAM LEADER
2. has some "Leon"-potential
Crennel sitting him almost for most of the season was probably trying to humble the kid a bit....let´s hope he learned from it and if so...let´s hope he doesn´t forget it when he catches for 100yds and 1TD in a game
I didn´t like the Wilson-pick last year....I didn´t want a WR (just seconds before our pick I said to a friend..."only WR I could accept now is Derek Hagan"....he had a fine rookie-year and was picked just after Wilson and he could be the reason the Fins trade Booker....funny thing is: we could be 1 of the teams interested in Booker)
btw Vers, can´t wait for your defense assesment.....I have some very nice Minter-scouting reports for you
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With all due respect, I'd like to hold off on Pool until I do the defensive breakdown. We can repost that scouting report on the D thread. Pool will get quite a bit of attention on my post. Quote:
Wilson profiles: Yeah, the contradictory scouting reports tell me 1 thing: this guy was NOT a consistent performer....and I don´t like it....again, this looks like a HR-swing pick....IF he puts it all together, he can be great..it´s all there in the reports....but when you think of:
1. his holdout
2. "I´m the best WR" comment
3. and his inconsitent play in College as a Senior, when they struggled at QB
I think it´s safe to say that:
1. he won´t ever be a TEAM LEADER
2. has some "Leon"-potential
Interesting. I hadn't looked at it that way. I like when people bring fresh perspectives. I hope he isn't like Leon. In fact, I am hoping he is a guy who really steps it up this year. But, like you, those profiles disappointed me a bit. There were some good things in there, but there were also some things that gave me pause. Especially some of the things about quickness coming out of his breaks and and route running.
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I didn´t like the Wilson-pick last year....I didn´t want a WR (just seconds before our pick I said to a friend..."only WR I could accept now is Derek Hagan"....he had a fine rookie-year and was picked just after Wilson and he could be the reason the Fins trade Booker....funny thing is: we could be 1 of the teams interested in Booker)
Yeah, I didn't like it if only for the simple fact of "another freaking WR?" Especially when we needed OL and DL help. But again.....we really do need this kid to step up.
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btw Vers, can´t wait for your defense assesment.....I have some very nice Minter-scouting reports for you
Good. I was taking a hiatus from the board last year and I know NOTHING about Minter. I'm curious to see what you dug up.
Thanks for the contributions.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Why does everyone act as though Wilson lost Sooooooo much time during his "holdout?" He signed on the first day of training camp and missed ONE day. I've heard over and over about how his "holdout" hurt him, but he only missed the first day of camp. I'm interested to see if "The Mighty Quinn" holds out and how many people blame/apologize for him...... 
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Missing one day didn't hurt him on the field. I'm not so sure it helped him with the coaches especially since he was a third round pick.
#gmstrong
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I agree with most of what you said, although our QB situation isn't as bad as you make it out to be............top 10 worse probably, but the Cheifs, Lions, Vikes, Skins, and Raiders are easily much worse situations than we have right now...........and no I'm not talking about the future with Quinn, but with the here and now. No way in hell the Raiders have a better QB situation than we do.............and it has jack to do with Quinn/Russell (although we got the better end of that one to). Quinn ain't starting this year, becuase we have 2 guys ahead of him who although aren't long term answers are good enough to take the hits and let the kid develop.............Russell starts game 1 because the Faiders have jack crap behind him. I won't go into the other teams I mentioned, becuase it's just not even debatable. I would also throw in a couple of more that could be our equal in perhaps the Cowboys ( if Romo ain't the truth they are in huge trouble, becuase they have nothing behind him), and the Skins (see the Cowboys). So top 10 worse probably, but that isn't as bad as you made it out to be. Overall this unit is much better than last year's garbage (when we did have the worse situation in the league), and will only get better as Brady matures, and Fry or Anderson becomes our veteran backup.
RBs.........I agree whole heartedly, but I think Harrison is over Wright if he has learned to block at all. He has the skill set to be a decent 3rd down back at this level if he ever learns the nuances of blocking and route running. Still a big upgrade from last year becuase of Lewis and the hope that JH can now at least pretend to block someone.
FBs...........I like Vickers better myself, and think he's going to be a big part of what we do on those flat passes you where talking about. Big upgrade
WRs..........I like JJ, but he's a slot/3rd down possesion guy. We really need Wilson to step up and be the # 2, but the truth is he's a year away like most of the other guys on this team. BE is the key, becuase he has all the talent to be a top 10 wr in the league. As always with him is does he want it bad enough to shut up and work for it. Either way, I doubt he's as big a pain in the butt as he was last year, and that alone gives this unit an upgrade.
TEs............KW2 and Heiden are a good tandem. Winslow is a good TE ( I disagree with the star aspect, becuase he doesn't block well enough yet for me to call him a stud), and he should be better this year on 2 legs instead of 1. Heiden is the example pro that has really established himself here.............this unit should get alot of work, becuase I bet we use alot of 2TE sets this year. IF KW's right and his leg kept him from blocking worth a crap, then this year he should be much better, and that alone gives us an upgrade here over last year.
OL..............The most improved unit on the team. Joe will struggle, but he's still light years ahead of KS. Steiner vs. Druzzi is just a joke...lol. Hank should be better as well, becuase I'm thinking we are going to see more zone blocking that you mentioned. SM is a big ???, and so is Tuck. Hopefully this year they are fine, but both need replaced next year. We also have much better depth so when guys like Seth or Tuck take their inevitable time on IR then the drop off isn't as dramatic as it has been in the past. Huge improvement here from last year.
We are still a year or 2 away from being a really good O, but we are way better than last year. We actually have at least solid prospects for long term answers at every position but RG and RT..............and perhaps RB depending on how Jamal looks. As a matter of fact imo, this unit is much closer to being a good unit than the D.........but that's another thread...lol. Anyway, good thread and take care bro.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
Why does everyone act as though Wilson lost Sooooooo much time during his "holdout?" He signed on the first day of training camp and missed ONE day. I've heard over and over about how his "holdout" hurt him, but he only missed the first day of camp.
WR Wilson, Browns' lone holdout, signs
NFL.com wire reports
BEREA, Ohio (July 29, 2006) -- Rookie wide receiver Travis Wilson, the only Cleveland draft pick not in training camp, ended his three-day holdout by signing a four-year contract with the Browns.
Financial terms of the contract were not disclosed.
Wilson, a third-round selection from Oklahoma, caught 105 passes for 1,315 yards and 17 touchdowns in 42 games for the Sooners. On draft day, Wilson proclaimed himself the best wide receiver in the 2006 class.
With wide receiver Braylon Edwards recovering from knee surgery, Wilson has a chance to earn some playing time. Coach Romeo Crennel warned that a long holdout would have hurt Wilson and dropped him on the depth chart.
Last year, Edwards, the No. 3 overall pick in 2005, missed the first two weeks of camp and didn't crack the starting lineup until midway through the season.
To make room on their roster, the Browns released receiver Steve Sanders.
nfl.com
Not that I feel three days is a lot more significant than one day, but I just thought I'd set the record straight.
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You know I kept reading about swinging for home runs in your post. As opposed to swinging for singles and doubles. But if you really think about it...most ball players say that they hit more home runs when they weren't trying to hit them. Because their swing is more relaxed and is better mechanically. To me when you say swinging for home runs, I think of a batter pressing too much instead of having a relaxed and better swing.
I don't think Savage was swinging for the fences with Wimbley. To me swinging for the fences is when you are trying too hard to get that homer. Or in other words a stretch pick. I don't consider Wimbley a reach at all. If anything, the 2005 draft was swinging for the fences because we didn't have our scouting team in place the way we wanted and Savage had little time. So he basically went with what they thought in that short timespan were the best available players available....And most if not all of them were reaches. but 2006 draft comes along and we basically have our foundation of the scouting system in....we had more time to evaluate, and I really don't think they were trying to stretch picks. Most stretch picks would be 2nd day picks where you hope they can catch on.
The amazing thing I see with this team is in 2 short years, we have come from a team rookies and UDFA's can make it....to a team where there is no guarantee whatsoever that if you are drafted that you can make the team. We are going to have some high second day picks that will be out in the cold come regular season. So in that sense, swinging for the fences doesn't really hurt you if you strike out.
In looking at this years draft....You see the high profile drafting of Quinn...and you know, I can see your point where that was swinging for the fences...except that they passed on him with the first pick. They went with really good contact swings wih Joe Thomas.
I think these other picks...BQ, and E-Wright look like they are swinging for the fences from the outside. But when you look at the past concerning the due dilligence in information gathering. They saw something in Wimbley, DQ Jackson, Leon Williams, and they were right on the money. And you are just starting to really see what they saw in E-Wright. You have to think that they may not have been swinging for the fences as much as you first thought.
I mean if you "know" the next pitch is going to be a changeup inside...Are you really swining for the fences or taking a huge gamble by waiting on it and punching it out of the park. That is not swinging for the fences or pressing...thats good scouting and planning....thats being prepared.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Travis Wilson happy to be back with team
July 29, 2006 at 11:31 pm | In Travis Wilson, Cleveland Browns | No Comments
On Friday night, the Browns’ had nine draft picks signed. By Saturday morning, it was a perfect 10.Third round pick Travis Wilson signed a four-year deal with the Browns Saturday morning, giving the Browns the distinction of having a full compliment of their 2006 draft picks signed and competing in training camp.
Afterwards, Wilson said the brief holdout was difficult for him, knowing his teammates were preparing for the 2006 season.
“I’ve hated to miss anything since I was a little kid,” Wilson said. “If I missed practice if I was injured, I was mad at myself. To sit at home and not be with my teammates hurt (during the past few days), but I’m glad I’m back out here with them and I can get things rolling.”
Wilson said he’ll use his time on the practice field during the upcoming days refreshing himself on the things he learned during offseason practices and meetings.
He said the toughest part of getting back into the mix is physical, not mental.
“Missing a couple days with pads and everything, that’s the biggest thing to me,” he said. “Football is football. I’ll still be able to run and catch the ball, but the bottom line for me is getting in the playbook and giving 100 percent with it.”
Like most players who experience any length of holdout, Wilson expressed Saturday how happy he is that the business part is over and now he can concentrate on football.
“I love to play football, but unfortunately that’s the business side of it,” Wilson said. “I hired my agent to take care of the business part of it and my job is to do the football part. He was fighting for me to get the best (deal) so that’s the way it works out. It’s unfortunate, but it’s just a couple days I missed and something very easy I can make up.
“(The contract process) is something different. It’s something you never experienced. In high school and college, you just show up on the first day. Now, this is a business and things are handled a little bit differently and I’m glad it didn’t last too long and I got out here as soon as possible.”
He was acutely aware that he was the lone holdout of the ‘06 Browns.
“The way I look at it, it’s more motivation for me,” he said. “People are going to look down on you and look at you different, but this is going to drive me and make me work harder.”
Now, Wilson can join the competition to aid the team’s receiving corps while Edwards continues to rehab from knee surgery. But Wilson will surely need some time to develop into the type of receiver Phil Savage and the Browns’ personnel department envisioned - and that could stretch beyond the timeframe of Edwards’ return.
“I’m just adding depth to the receiving corps,” he said. “I’m just another weapon. We have skill all the way around. I feel I can bring something else to make us more complete.”
I stand corrected. Training camp started on Thursday, and Wilson signed Friday Night/Saturday Morning.... Reading this article, I got the impression that Wilson was a competitive player, who wants to win. The type of player I would want on playing on my team.... The article was from sooners.wordpress.com/2006/07/
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Quote:
I agree with most of what you said, although our QB situation isn't as bad as you make it out to be............top 10 worse probably, but the Cheifs, Lions, Vikes, Skins, and Raiders are easily much worse situations than we have right now...........and no I'm not talking about the future with Quinn, but with the here and now. No way in hell the Raiders have a better QB situation than we do.............and it has jack to do with Quinn/Russell (although we got the better end of that one to). Quinn ain't starting this year, becuase we have 2 guys ahead of him who although aren't long term answers are good enough to take the hits and let the kid develop.............Russell starts game 1 because the Faiders have jack crap behind him. I won't go into the other teams I mentioned, becuase it's just not even debatable. I would also throw in a couple of more that could be our equal in perhaps the Cowboys ( if Romo ain't the truth they are in huge trouble, becuase they have nothing behind him), and the Skins (see the Cowboys). So top 10 worse probably, but that isn't as bad as you made it out to be.
Uhmmm..........you named 5 teams. And one of them...the Skins........you later said you weren't going to include them. That leaves 4 teams. And by anyone's definition.......that's leaves you w/one of the worst in the NFL.
You also said something very interesting. You said it wasn't debatable in regards to comparing KCs and Detroit's QBs w/ours. I beg to differ. I realize stats don't tell the entire story, but they do tell a story.
Last year:
Charlie-------Rating = 72.0-----------64.1%----------10 TD, 17 Int.----------6.24 YPA
Anderson-----Rating = 63.1-----------56.4%----------05 TD, 08 Int.----------6.78 YPA
Huard--------Rating = 98.0-----------60.7%------------11TD, 01 Int.----------7.70 YPA
That's not debatable? Perhaps, but not in the manner you described it.
Let's look at Detroit:
Kitna:---------Rating = 79.9-----------62.4%----------21 TD, 22 Int.----------7.06 YPA
Additionally, Kitna threw for 4, 208 yds. which is way more than our two QBs combined.
There are two teams who are below the Browns---Oakland and Minnesota. And man..........I wish we could make this bet. I'd love to poll NFL GMs and head coaches and ask them:
Let's suppose you could choose any team's group of QBs and play the entire 2007 season w/that group. You can only keep them for 2007, but you will get them for the entire year. Rank the teams in order from 1 to 32, w/one being your highest pick.
Do any of you really think that the Browns would be closer to 20 or even 25 than they would be to 30 if that poll was conducted?
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BE is the key, becuase he has all the talent to be a top 10 wr in the league. As always with him is does he want it bad enough to shut up and work for it. Either way, I doubt he's as big a pain in the butt as he was last year, and that alone gives this unit an upgrade.
I don't know about that. Leon has mad physical skills, but he has poor hands and doesn't run precise routes. He also isn't quick out of his cuts. I think he could be a WR who makes a lot of BIG plays because of his great physical ability, but I don't think he has the skill set to be a top WR.
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We are still a year or 2 away from being a really good O, but we are way better than last year. We actually have at least solid prospects for long term answers at every position but RG and RT..............and perhaps RB depending on how Jamal looks. As a matter of fact imo, this unit is much closer to being a good unit than the D.
I think that is the homer in you talking. LOL............but, I hope you are right. Thanks for the input, bro. Good stuff.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I do want to add something here......just in case I am giving you guys the wrong impression. You don't typically get a QB for a year, and you never really get a group of QBs for a year. I think in the long run, the Browns possibly have a better situation at QB than several other teams. Please remember, in this particular post..........I am only referring to this upcoming season. Who knows, in a few seasons, our group of quarterbacks could be amongst the best in the league. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Well I think its time a little reality gets posted here...lol 
j/k - you all got to understand. I just came back from the hospital...had some major work done with a nasty problem in my heart...can breath now...averted Open Heart surgery as all the damage was in one Artery and they were able to do it with Angy Plasty...I got 7 stents in my heart now, and they say I'm one of the lucky ones cause my body doesn't seem to reject the stents. Most of my Aorta is being held up by stents...lol 5 of them in a row now. Point is I'm one happy camper...I can take deep breaths now and feel the power in my muscles again - as the song says..
I FEEL GOOD!!!!
So onto the thread of our Offensive breakdown.
I think the key variables here is TALENT and DEVELOPMENT. We got so much talent and depth on the offense - more than we ever had. But there is a BUTT to this - so much of that talent are young players who development still have to be experienced. So you can take a look at our offense and make a case for Greatness, Mediocrity or Down Right Chaos.
My case that I will present will be just how I see it developing and I'll try to keep it as real as possible.
Lets start where it all starts...OL
We for the FIRST time actually have both Talent and Depth - right here will lie the key to our Offensive success. How well these Men work with each other and develop they pretty much define my outlook on our offense regarding Talent and Development.
They will be a New OL and will lack the gel and continuity.
They will however be together from...well from several weeks ago. I know some are worried cause Joe Thomas hasn't manned the starting job with the first unit. He's not losing as much continuity time with Steinbach as some will think. I'm sure Steinbach is taking a leadership role with the OL and goes over a lot with Joe T as well as with Shaffer and Hank. When they put pads on and Joe T is actually signed and in camp they will have time to gel - he'll get more n more reps with the first unit.
Steinbach as mentioned has assumed a leadership role with the new OL - I see him Hank and Tucker providing excellent examples and hard work ethic. I cannot remember such a veteran group of leadership on the OL with actual talent to back their roles as veteran leaders.
Its hard to define this group cause still it has to take shape.
Joe T has to still be named starter. Key #1.
A RT has to be settled on...Shaffer or Tucker.
Also a RG has to be finalized...McKinney? Tucker? or Sowells - we actually have 3 candidates and the beauty of it all is none in the mix are Bums!
So much about this Offense and its 07 success will be riding on the OL.
So much about this OL will be riding on its Coaching!
Actually that is another undefined Variable that really will have a major role in the outcome our Offense - how good are these young coaches.
I've had a theory about coaching and it is something even though I'm not on the level of the NFL game...coaching is coaching. Sometimes too much is scrutinized on method...Quite frankly as long as we have a DEFINED DIRECTION we will have success in our coaching. I have to assume to get to the level they are they actually know what they are doing...this cannot be denied. I think Chud has defined the direction of this offense. Dave Atkins provides a veteran experience and is a great right hand man for Chud as he can provide a wealth of experience to the youth and exhuberence of this Offense.
Most important is that all seem to be on the same page. Starting with Chud...all the way down the staff and to the players. They all believe in the offense and that is 95% of the negatives for any offense and any job for that matter. Believing in it is Big time. Chud has done a good job with his organization and why he was brought in. The make up of this offense is so different right off the bat in that sense. Enthusiasm is Genuine and eagerness seems to be the common denominator throughout.
QB...I for one am not as concerned with this group as some have expressed. It is the calling card of the national media in naming us as a blundering Offensive group and destined to continue to be one of the worst.
But quite frankly I happen to like our situation. I see a lot more than some in Charlie Frye...he has never, never been a practice player and this is not an excuse this happens to be a fact...there are actually a lot of players like that...I have coached them and cannot explain them outside of the fact there are switches in the body and the mind. Some individuals actually see practice as a place to learn...as a place to make mistakes and to understand why they are mistakes and eliminate them. No matter how much you tell them its a COMPETITION the mind knows its not the game yet. Then when come game time that Switch just gets turned on...the adrenaline that flows actually becomes a positive not a negative.
Charlie happens to be such a guy...and actually believe it or not...I see that in BQ as well. Come game time both these guys are on a different level than what you see in practice! Then there is the opposite...there are some who are Practice players...they look like unbelieveable athletes in practice and then the switch actually goes in another direction when that time comes - some people shut down with the adreneline??? Its wierd but it happens. But when all is said and done regarding this so called competition - this is a big variable.
CF will be our starter, BQ will get a tremendous opportunity to sit outside the box and look in and learn a great deal to make him a GREAT QB of ours in the future.
DA is there in case the injury bug happens - he's a good backup that much we found out last season. I don't expect much else from him.
Our situation compared with others in the NFL might not look great on paper...but thats where I'm happy...the game ain't played on Paper. Frye is in his zone to expand himself with what he has learned and put it all together. Is he one of the Greats of the Game...no, I don't think so that is in his future??? But I believe Solid is in his destiny...if so then we are talking about this to be his breakout season and we will be there to benefit from it. HE'S READY!
JMHO
Got to run sorry I will continue this later. RB, WR n TE situation.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Glad your healthy and happy again eo.
Good luck with that.
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As usual allow me to retort...lol. Quote:
Uhmmm..........you named 5 teams. And one of them...the Skins........you later said you weren't going to include them. That leaves 4 teams. And by anyone's definition.......that's leaves you w/one of the worst in the NFL.
I said our situation wasn't any worse than the Skins or Boys for that matter, and what I didn't include is that their are some other situations that could be alot worse than ours if things don't work out for them, because of their lack of depth. The best thing about our class is that at least 2 have the ability to be quality backups, and our 3 is going to be our 1 next year...........bro that's quality depth, and alot of teams don't have that. So again overall I don't think our QB situation is as bad as you make it out to be. I agree it's bad in that we don't have an established starter, but the drop off between Fry and Anderson isn't nearly as bad as say the drop off from Romo and the rest............oh and I am not sold that Romo is better than what we have in Anderson or Fry. So again it's bad, and definitly not an area of strength...lol.....but their are a few teams with worse talent than we have, and a bunch more that could actually be worse than us because of depth problems.
Quote:
I don't know about that. Leon has mad physical skills, but he has poor hands and doesn't run precise routes. He also isn't quick out of his cuts. I think he could be a WR who makes a lot of BIG plays because of his great physical ability, but I don't think he has the skill set to be a top WR.
See imo those things about Leon are mental.............even the lack of hands. He could easily be a top 10 wide out if he worked at, but I just don't see that happening.
Quote:
think that is the homer in you talking. LOL............but, I hope you are right. Thanks for the input, bro. Good stuff.
How do you figure??? We are light years ahead of anything we've had since rebirth.....we actually have young talent that are long term answers at most of our positions, and good prospects that should develop into long term answers (Quinn, Joe, Wilson, Harrison as a 3rd down back etc). Granted the right side needs to be replaced next year, and Jamal and BE could very well blow up in our face, but they could just as easily not. If we just get moderate results on our investments then we should be able to fill the misses over the next 2 years. Bro your acting like that Harrison, Wilson etc can't develop becuase either they got limited action as a rookie or were drafted to low...lol. Both of those guys have the skill set to develop into those roles that I mentioned. Will they?? Who knows, but at least they have the talent to actually do it, and that's better than anything Botch or Clark/Policy ever put together.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Glad everything went well for you EO. Also good to have you back and FEELING GOOD.
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Its funny we have often debated how an OL can make an average running back great or a bum qb look good. Well 2 bums fighting it out to start at qb and most around the league believe Lewis is washed up. Now on paper this is one heck of an offensive line although it is still on paper atm but man everyone should be excited to at least see the OL theory put to the test.
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Thanks all for the well wishes...in my exhuberance of more life...lol I posted what I did...but didn't mean to hijack the thread so if more well wishing I'd appreciate if the main context of your posts were pertaining to the thread...thanks
Getting back to the thread.
RB - I think we made a major upgrade. Lewis seems to be a lot healthier and ready to run than the media gave credit to. They assumed that the Ravens opting for Magahee over re-signing Lewis meant he was through. I doubt that. The little videos I have seen of him show a lot of life in those legs and I was surprised how good his hands are...probably not used as well as he could have been in Baltimore...then again they do got the Self proclaimed "GENIUS" over there 
What an upgrade we got in Lewis on any RB we have had since 99. Now I have read all the short comings of Wright and Harrison from posters and media alike. Well BIG DEAL - 80% of our RB duties will be conducted by Lewis and thats assuming Harrison comes in a lot on passing downs or an extra WR. What Wright is - is a smart efficient RB who does all things well and nothing spectacular. Harrison a growing commodity whose better days are ahead and he worked hard to improve himself. Then on side note we got Barclay over in NFLe tearing it up which I liken to the talent of a 3rd qtr pre-season game just with a little more organization and teamwork. But still playing good is still playing good he happens to be playing MVP good over there. Something we never could claim before. I really don't see this group being anywhere as low as the media reports not when we got a top 5 RB in Lewis if he is in true form.
WR - Probably the most over glorified group when the media rates an offense. I know Edwards is taking a beating from our INSIDE info guys - but lets just say BE isn't well endeared by several members of the offense - he does seem to be a love hate kind of guy. But who cares - let me know the day a team Makes it or Breaks it because of their WRs thats the day I'll get worried. He's a 3rd year player with a heck of a lot of talent. If he comes into his own he will do great things for our offense. If he doesn't improve himself I don't expect him here long. No big deal unless we all want to p n moan about spilled milk. Whatever we will lose in BE as a prospect we probably more than gain from the What we will gain with Wilson and Cribbs - so goes the way of the position of WR. JJ is solid and a good mentor for the youngsters. Carter can be a surprise - but regardless he provides the verticle stretch that none of our WRs can give, he'll serve his purpose.
All I want is Good Hands, Good Routes and Good Blocking from this unit and you can have a championship caliber offense. We got a good range of talent and athleticism to provide MisMatches galore. What more can you ask for.
TEs - KW2, Heiden and Dinkins: I think is a top unit in the NFL. KW2's surgery is not a negative but a positive as the kid was playing on one leg last season...now he has a shot to play on two legs.
Heiden has become a solid TE , well rounded and accountable. Dinkins is the blocker and STer of the group. I suspect we will see more 2 TE formations as I watched Heiden lined up as a FB and shifting into the TE position.
FB - Vickers is going to surprise the NFL this year and become a name that will be repeated often. So often in the red zone and Goal Line all is accounted for but the FB having a weapon at that position is smart and I betcha we start some copy cat stuff around the league as his notoriety grows. I'm going to have fun watching it develop...at least I'm hoping Chud is half as good as his reputation.
Well thats the positive side of it all...but remember the offense is definately going to look better cause I think we have the organization in place (CHUD n Co. ) as well as some upgraded talent and depth. But we will only hit on a small scale of what our finished product will be. I hope we hang in there in the beginning of the season and reap some of the rewards of continuity the 2nd half. With all said n done...its a new OL, a new Offense with a lot of New Talent. But I believe it is here to stay! Whatever its looks like now...it will be even better next year
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'm glad you are feeling better and are in good spirits. I ain't even going to dispute anything you said since you just got out of the hospital. But, I wonder what a person would think if they were to read your analysis and had no idea what the Brown's record was last year? They would say...........that's a damn good football team. Must have went 12 and 4 and advanced deep into the playoffs. LOL BigWillie: Somehow I get the feeling that you aren't interpreting my comments and limiting your own to 2007. It sure as hell seems like you are talking long range. There is nothing wrong w/that, but I really did want to keep this thread on this upcoming season. I have my reasons for that.........you just gotta trust me, bro. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I am trying to do both...lol. Yeah I agree we are going to suck this year on both sides of the ball.......not as bad as last year, but not nearly as good as the dolts want it either. My comments on the O being better than the D was definitly long term, becuase it won't be that way this year. I'm sorry for not sticking with the theme of the thread on that one, but your thread got me to thinking about how the FO is building this team..........my bad.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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No, don't apologize. I probably shouldn't even ask you to stay focused on this year. But.......w/the RAC thing......I wanna make sure people have an accurate picture of this team...you know...for this upcoming year. Because when they don't win, people are going to be on his ass big time. And they are going to try and run him out of town.
So, I am inviting all those who think RAC should go people to pipe in on this thread and tell me why this team w/this talent base is going to win this year. You projecting into the future is helping their cause.....LOL. And I know you didn't do it intentionally and it is only natural to project into the future.
Bro, I was listening to the radio today and the guy says that most national people are saying the Browns are only going to win 4 or 5 games and some are saying they might even have the top pick in the draft........well........Dallas will. I don't see how we could win any less than 4 games. I am kinda figuring between 4 and 8, and if I had to narrow it down now.....I would say between 5 and 7, w/5 and 6 more likely than 7. But, I have some time to make my final prediction.
And despite that ugly prognostication.....I am actually excited about this season. Now, if we just put a muzzle on all the RAC and Charlie haters. LOL........I know they are going to frustrate me, but other than the listening to the mob......I think it should be a fun year watching some of these young guys grow.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Your about where I am on my prognostication...lol. I have us at either 6-10 or 7-9, and that's before the injury bug bites at camp. The main reason I have us at that high is getting a much easier schedule, and thinking the gods have to smile on us sometime and this is the year we make it out of camp without a serious big time injury. Best case scenerio would be 8-8, and if all goes wrong I can see 5-11 this year as well.
Your right bro, the dolts will jump on RAC the 1st chance they get, and imo it will go along way to see how Jr. and Opie handle it. Opie (and Jr. for that matter) showed me alot this off season, and I hope they don't back track by pulling the plug on RAC 1 year before it is time to truly evaluate him as a HC.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Vers, I think you are being a bit tough...thoughts on this later
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Quote:
So, I am inviting all those who think RAC should go people to pipe in on this thread and tell me why this team w/this talent base is going to win this year. You projecting into the future is helping their cause.....LOL. And I know you didn't do it intentionally and it is only natural to project into the future.
I know I've said it in this thread already but it bears repeating: Jamal Lewis and the O-Line. That gives me hope for this season to be an average ballclub.
How many teams that can effectively run the ball have you seen with atrocious records? Only one I can think of off the top of my head is the 2002 Bengals. I don't think we're that kind of trainwreck anymore.
Every year is different, every schedule is different, but I can't see us looking like clowns out there. I see us looking competent but not spectacular, with signs of hope for next year. I'd love to see those signs come with the QB position as well, but I won't bank on it.
My biggest matchup concern is with the Bengals, and I plan on writing a thread on that when I get home from my Saturday trip to Athens.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Well, you are the one RAC basher that has the guts to debate. That's a plus.
I agree w/you that Lewis is an upgrade over Droughns. Btw.......is Toad on the Giant's board now? *L* I think Lewis can have a good year, but we have to acknowledge that there are plenty of people who think he is close to being washed-up. I don't think he is, but it is something we have to consider. Let's face it.....he was not kept by Baltimore and he signed a one year deal w/us. A one year deal w/one of the worst teams in the league. Perhaps there is something to him having lost it? And again, I don't think he has, but if we want to be rational and logical we must consider it.
Furthermore, teams will stack the LOS if our passing game struggles. And I think it might. I am not a big fan of WR group, and I again disagree w/BigWillie about Leon. He said it was all mental. Well, a lot of it is, but quickness out of the cut, hands, and guts are things that generally don't improve.
Another reason for worrying about Lewis is that this is a new O and it sounds as if it is complex. Guys are making a ton of mistakes in camp. This will probably continue during the season. And if an offensive line is not cohesive, especially in a zone blocking scheme.....then you have problems.
So, while I think this line has the most talent of any line we have had and it is FAR superior to last year's line, I am still worried that it might struggle some. And again, I am talking about 2007.
I suppose what I'm saying is...........be patient w/this team. And I know we've heard it a million times, and believe me.......I have heard it way longer than you. I have two kids around your age........the fact is that the Browns have made a lot of mistakes even since the new regime was brought in. That is why we once again got rid of or lost a slew of coaches. Now, we get to watch them struggle again due to the newness of things, and they get another year of excuses.
Oh brother, here it is........I'm sick of blaming the coaches. I put more blame on ownership. Jesus......this franchise is so freaking unstable. Fire--->Hire--->Promises---> High Expectations---> Bitter Disappointment---> Excuses! Then start the process over again. The Merry Go Round of Misery!
It's time to suck it up and stick w/a damn plan.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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