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You don't prefer Andrew Berry?

First of all, I have no problems w/how the Browns handled the kicking situation.

However, I really believe that none of you gets what sustained losing does to a football team. I have brought that topic up several times and no one replies, which leads me to believe they either don't get it or they are deliberately ignoring it by sweeping the dirt under the rug.

Football is a totally different beast than baseball. There isn't a farm system where you can develop players. There is a 53 man roster and a practice squad. That's it!

Preaching to guys about the importance of hard work, putting in extra time, self-sacrifice, etc are very important to the success of your team. However, when you do not have any success at all........the message loses its validity.

Playing as a team is far more important in football than baseball. Constant losing leads to guys starting to look out more for themselves and playing the blame game.

Another difference between football and baseball is that you only play one game a week in the former and you play almost every day in baseball. Even the worst baseball teams win games. In football, you have to wait all week to get back out there and try and win again.

A losing culture is far more damaging than acquiring a ton of draft picks. It's important to have small successes along the way in order to develop a positive team identity and keep the mind-set of the team focused on the ultimate goal.

And this is one of the huge flaws in the plan that the Browns are employing.

*Cue the insults and the ignoring of the actual message.

Or, Option #3 which is that we believe and agree with what you posted and that no further comment is necessary.

Good point.

However, then why aren't people debating those that say losing is okay? I am not saying that in a confrontational tone. It's a serious question.

Yea, if we are in the top 10 in any draft, we need to be picking those players. I want elite players.

I mean I'm watching Julio jones damn near average 180 yards a game, and I'm wondering where Phil Taylor is currently living.

I'm really sick of always trading back.

According to his Linkedin profile, roughly seven.

Losing is acceptable (in the short term) if it furthers your long term goals/objectives. Note that I didn't say that losing is "OK" as it is tough to stomach. However, if you truly believe that you are on the right track to attain your goal, then it makes "biting the bullet" easier to swallow...

Agreed, Swish. For the most part we have stocked "journeyman" players and now need to take advantage of our favorable draft position to select a handful of elite guys. I'm on board with no trading back unless of course there is presented a significant opportunity...

If we get the #1 Pick which seems very likely I HOPE and PRAY that we take the consensus #1 Player on the board no matter position because the Lord knows we could use almost any position ... JMHO

LOL........which goes against my entire argument. Oh well.........

There's no need to apologize for wanting to win. An apology for 600 re-posts of this thread where you are whining about what you don't understand would be nice though. An apology for overuse of the words "Harvard Boys" would be nice too. An apology about not understanding that the current FO has had exactly one draft and past drafts on not on their shoulders would be nice. You actually know this part, it just doesn't help the propaganda that you are putting out.


The jury is still out only for the rest of us. Your guilty verdict came out several months and hundreds of rehashes ago. Your guilty verdict was in when some of these guys were hired.



You can't play that and have anyone believe it mac. You either want them to stay or want them to go and it is very clear from each of the many thousands of your rants that you don't want them to stay. You don't want to come out and say it. You want to keep beating that dead horse until you convince a few of us to say it. Most of us are able to see the direction of the plan and it's validity though. Most of us are not buying the quick fix plans that failed in the past. Most of us actually understand what analytics is and how it works. Most of us aren't on a mission to make everyone else miserable. In other words, most of us understand common sense.

Not really. I did say that losing is not OK, but if you acknowledge and believe that you are on the right track, are seeing improvement, then it becomes more palatable...

Okay, I guess this is a good of place as any. First off I think your view of losing for the short term or long term is off base. Losing is never acceptable no matter how short or long term you think it might be. BUT it does come with where were at, but that does not make it all right. I think that's where were at. Players and Coaches all know what spot were in. I doubt anybody is thinking losing is okay for now. No, I think Hue has these guys focused on winning, just don't have the horses right now. I don't think our players are even close to thinking losing is okay. Now after next year and we still can't win over 3-4 games then it might look hopless.

mac, I think that is unfair. I don't trust Haslam, but I think they all want to win.

I think they believe their plan is sound and that it will help them win. I get what they're doing, I just disagree w/parts of the plan because football is so different from baseball.




I saw a coach quit on his team just last week. Prolonged losing is not good for anyone.

That's just not true. Coach was fired up and trying to get a spark under these guys. Quit trying to stir up crap.

Do you have a link for that?

You find a post that shows that you want them to stay. You can't play the "I never called for them to be fired" card while you have posted thousands of time that the "Harvard Boys" and Haslam have some sort of master plan to ruin football for the world.

Are you saying right now that you want the front office to continue the way it is right now? Is that what you are saying mac? If that is what you are saying then your account has been hacked by someone that has been posting the exact opposite thousands of times now. These evil Harvard boys and Haslam are tanking to save up for their NASCAR team and maybe if they can scrimp on a punter next, it might put them over the top.

This is not Deputy Dawg's Board. Who the hell are you to tell mac what to post?

Link for what?

That he didn't quit. Anyways, I don't want a link because we both know there isn't one and I Was just making light of how Deputy asks mac for a link all the time.

It's as if some people can say whatever they want and others can't......according to the board's police department, headed by Deputy Dawg.

Says the guy that tells everyone how to post.

Very fitting.

It appears that you might be trying to gang up on me Verse.

Oh woe is me.

I am such a victim.

Was that a High School,or college? I didn't notice any NFL Coaches quit last weekend.

You are not a victim. You are a board bully who is constantly hypocritical.

I made those recent posts in my best Deputy Dawg impression. "This isn't your board...." "Do you have a link for that...." LOL Weak, very weak.

Btw--------what was your user name before you got banned? I have a couple of guesses and would like to know which one is correct.

Vers I personally believe that there's a big difference between quitting and allowing someone else to call plays while u go rip the D a new one ... he let his OC call plays while he tended to other duties ..

HUGE DIFFERENCE to me ...

I also agree that the LOSING has taken its toll on Hue and his frustration with it is part of the reason he did what he did ...

I also don't think the losing this year will affect NEXT YEARS TEAM ONE IOTA ... matter of fact if their worth a damm .. this year will MOTIVATE THE HELL OUT OF THEM TO WORK HARDER THIS OFF SEASON ...

Spare me the coaching, playing stuff ... i played sports at a very high level and completely understand it ...

If in two years we don't bring in some vets that KNOW HOW TO WIN to show the kids .. I will then agree with U ..

Sorry if u disagree with that .. but its how i feel and i'm not some naive idiot cause i don't agree with U ..

Mac, I think the reason they went for Parkey over others is because of several reasons.

1. Yes, he's cheaper
2. Yes, he's had success in the league
3. Yes, he's young and has the possibility of longevity on his side

Oh, and yeah, that makes him the perfect Moneyball kinda guy.

Has he missed anything since that first game with us?

I can't seem to remember for sure.

EDIT: I just checked, overall since joining the Browns he's 8 for 11. Unless I'm mistaken, he missed those three in the first game he played for us.

Since then he's been solid.

Given how he joined us (on the day before his first game) and without any real chance to get into it, I think he's come along quite nicely.

Thank goodness Hue and the "HARVARD BOYS" as you like to refer to them, had the good sense to hang on to him.

Dumb Question # 813: When did it become a bad thing to be a Harvard Grad?

Your point is well taken. A losing culture is damaging. Though I do believe there are exigent circumstances that everyone understands, mainly injuries. Secondly, and to a lesser extent, age & experience of the team. Third, poor play and lack of talent. And finally, circumstance, like a missed field goal (though that indirectly could be related to injury), bad calls like the phantom taunting penalty, a ridiculous fumble/non fumble determination, or the unfortunately timed return of Brady.

No way was there ever a "plan" in place with the goal being, "learn while losing". We've discussed tanking the season, but I've never felt that was an issue or an option. The team obviously set out to win games. And while they probably were aware it was unlikely they'd win them all, or even a majority, the expectations that they would field a better product has been apparent based on the overall improvement of the offense alone.

No one could have foreseen all the injuries in general, or the decimation along the O-line, or the part the "Hand of God" has played. And granted (and you know I've been critical of this), they should've kept a couple key players, and that may have mitigated the situation somewhat. But the reality is, had we not been so snake bit by injuries and circumstance, we'd be a better team than 0-7. I have to believe that the players, coaches, FO personnel, and ownership know and understand these things.

The unfortunate point we have reached now is that it's not going to get any better. Key players we need like Bitonio aren't coming back this year. Getting Erving back in there does nothing for us. Getting Kessler, McCown or RGIII back likely won't help, and they probably won't last long if they do come back. Having Corey on the Field will do little to improve the team. Getting Pryor healthy won't win games because the defense is horrendous. Just disgusting. With the O-line as it is, it's impossible to run the ball against good teams.

Everyone in the organization must be sick with the situation as it stands. There's nothing to do now but tough it out, use every situation as a learning tool, get through it, draft well, maybe dabble in free agency a bit, try to improve the team, improve the depth, and hit it again next year.

Because like it or not, this year is over.

Spare you......? Okay, I guess the debate is over.

I am making the claim that you can't play that card.

My claim is that you can't play the "I didn't call for them to be fired" card while trashing the front office for thousands of posts.

I did back it up.

But I wouldn't expect someone that doesn't understand what Moneyball is to understand that.

If I posted "you did post that you wanted them fired" you might have a reason to ask for a link. Since I didn't you don't.

Come on concentrate. You can figure it out.

It says Dawg Talkers Message Boards at the top, not Deputy Dawg's Message Boards.

LOL............this is fun acting like you......but not very stimulating.

Oh.........are you going to tell me your old user name????

You must have me confused with someone else Verse.

Although I can't understand how someone could get themselves banned when discoursing with you. You are such a cheery non self important individual.

I remember when I first got here and you made a special post just for me with your instructions on how exactly I should post.

Do you remember that bud? You made me feel so special that i could actually post on your board Coach Verse.

Do you also remember when I offered to analyze any blocking tape that you threw out there if Coach Verse would do the same for me? Why did you never take me up on that one? Wasn't that the time we were wondering if you might have been a track coach instead of a football coach?

Do you remember Coach Verse?

What football position did you coach again?

Discus?

*L* .. no it doesn't have to be over .... well actually it prolly is between u and I ... we have different opinions here .. don't feel like saying the same things over and over ... u have your "posse" for that .. *L* ..

I just didn't want to hear that U know more than me cause of your playing/coaching experience ...

If u feel u have something to share with me on this subject .. PLEASE DO ..

I don't reply to cause of your charming personality .. *L* .. I reply to U cause u know football and look at it from a different set of eyes than mine ... U TEACH ME ALL THE TIME ... not (m)any around here that i learn from ... and thats the SOLE REASON i come ..

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it BOSS!!!!!

Nice deflection. I'm just wondering how such a wind-bag [recalling the epic novel you had w/CHS trying to make him look bad in the Draft forum???] could possibly know about what was posted years ago if they were only a "long time reader" and not a poster who had been banned...........

Please enlighten me. You don't seem to be referring to any post. Just some innuendo. I am going to love seeing you try to pull this one off coach verse.

Where is this evidence that you speak of?

Come on coach right now it just sounds like you are deflecting.

Or we could just analyze some tape but we both know that you don't want to do that.

So lets have that smoking gun that puts me here before I actually was here?