DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Front Office..continued...

Again?
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1180408/re-the-browns-front-office#Post1180408

Try taking off your shoes and counting toes.

You'll figure it out eventually.

One of the concerns I have is how much input does hue have with players coming in or out.

It appears he has the overall say on QB's, in general. But what about the other roster spots?

I guess I'm wondering how transparent the FO is being with Hue.

I don't think that we will ever know for sure, but they sure seemed to all be on the same page on draft day and Hue was pretty definitive that they weren't trading JT recently.

Reading is fundamental mac.

My claim stands and is backed up.

You can't play the "I didn't call for the FO to be fired" card while constantly trashing the FO.

I still stand exactly by what I said.

I can't help that you can't understand the meaning of that.

I have said the exact same thing several times now in the same way.

You probably understand it more than you are letting on, but your effort to save a little face on the board requires a stretch on your part to interpret something different.

You can't tell the boss that another employee says that he is a fat slob while claiming to the rest of the staff that you didn't want him fired.

Just to set the record straight. SO YOU GET IT. I never said that you posted that they should be fired. I said that you can't play that card while continuing to trash the front office.

So I will ask you once again since you ignored me last time are you saying that you want this front office to continue into next season the way it is right now?

Let's be clear on exactly what you are saying so everyone here knows. You love Jimmy and the Harvard boys don't you.

At it again, I see.

Nice "topic" related post.

Let me start by saying I love the board here and like reading the discussions/debates even tho I hardly ever post....

But this thread is a perfect example of why I hardly post here...

3 out of 4 threads on here turn into this and it really takes the fun out of having/reading a spirited debate/discussion...

I'm sure we are all adults here.Why can't we all just keep it civil and respect others opinions even if it goes against our own opinions ?

90 - 100 pages on this one topic...funny

Ugh.....

You should read some commentary from DePodesta about this very thing. I think he definitely recognizes that w/o question. The issue is whether or not he is capable and smart enough to adapt to his role and to integrate what he has done in the past to what he is doing now. Although I don't know him personally, I find him to be extremely intelligent and hope he can evolve our analytics program to be a more efficient PIECE OF THE PUZZLE when judging talent.

Regarding their first draft, these selections have shown some significant flashes, particularly the early picks which is what you need to see. Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, hell even Kessler has improved with each game although many people believe the FO conceded to Hue on this one. I don't think this means those players on the trajectory to be great, but for a FO that had little time in their positions, to prepare for the draft, and perhaps overall experience in scouting and selecting, their picks have some promise. Not too mention the added picks they've accrued that leads to two #1s, two #2s, and two #3s. I think this makes a compelling case to be more optimistic than making fun of them as "Harvard Boys" or creating this narrative that Haslem wants to be cheap for his Nascar aspirations.

Is experience an issue? Sure, I think that is a fair concern. From the owner all the way down to Berry. I do think the scouts have been around for quite some time, however- either here or elsewhere.

Let it be noted to any Refs out there the very first post in this thread and then the multiple requests directed to me in particular. I am responding because I was requested to and will try to do so as civilly as possible without going over the edge if possible.

mac you can't post 6000 posts in the same thread saying that the front office sucks, that they intentionally leaked info that they wanted to trade JT, that there is a secret plan to to fund a NASCAR team with cap money, and say that "you aren't calling for the front office to be fired" anymore than you can say "we didn't want her burned at the stake we were just standing out there with fire and pitchforks"

I am sure that when you started this thread on what has to be getting close to a a year ago that you were thinking positive happy things with your "not ready for prime time" post. I am sure that "Harvard Boys" is an affectionate term used for how much you admire and respect what it takes to graduate from such a fine institution and that you use the "Moneyball" term so often because you are a huge Brad Pitt fan.

And while I am sure that you only have the highest regard for Haslam as well. I personal don't like him, don't trust him and probably never will. I don't need to make 6000 posts trying to convince others to do the same though. There's no need for me to rally others to call for his head because doing so will not do any good for me or for anyone else that would have to listen to my endless rants.

When I think that our DBs suck, I try to keep it to things like trying to point out that "The FS spot is horrid and that is making our already bad corners look worse." That is what I would think someone that comes to this board wants to read and that is the kind of stuff I like to read when I come here.

I do not try to assert something like "Haslam didn't want to pay Gipson because he is cheap and wants to use the money to buy a NASCAR team" and then throw in the term "Moneyball" a couple of dozen times with a few "Harvard Boys" mixed in. I don't think anyone else comes here to read stuff like that and I couldn't back it up if I asserted it.

Most people on this board want to talk x's and o's with some chit chat mixed in. Some people aren't that great at x's and o's and some are amazing. Everyone seems to have different opinions but those types of discussions rarely escalate because usually the other guy may not agree that we need a FS more than an OLB, but he can see why the other person thinks so. It usually takes some thought to come up with such opinions and you can usually understand the thought process of why someone has the opinion that they have.

You know what also wouldn't escalate?

If I simply stated that I don't like Jimmy Haslam. I am sure some people would agree with me and some would disagree but those people could see why I would not like him. I could probably repeat it several different times in several different threads without escalation as long as I didn't get overly excessive about it. Now if I do get excessive or if I throw a few words in designed to incite, I can see how that would escalate easily. Especially if I insert claims that I invented such as "using the money to buy a NASCAR team". Somebody is probably going to call me out on that one.

That's all just me though, let's talk about your post.

In your post above you state



So who do you want hired and who has to get fired to open the spot?



I think I have my answer.

Depo has that 20 yr library because he is very good at his job and was employed doing it for that long.

He didn't have that 20 year library when he first started in baseball either. He turned out to be very good at that didn't he?

Who can possibly read your post above without thinking that you want Depo replaced?

Who can read the other 6000 posts that you have made about the front office without thinking that you want them all replaced?

The refs have allowed you a platform for months and months of endless rants and conspiracy theories. The least you can do is own them.

My apologies to everyone else on the board.

{sigh}

Just tell me the job title of the mysterious person that you are hiring above and whether or not they have control of the 53 man roster.

I'll respond to rest once I know that.

Below is an excerpt from a March 2016 article titled Depodesta ready to answer doubters...

No doubt, Depodesta knows what his greatest weakness is, while making the switch from baseball to football..the question becomes, how will he address the issue in the short term?

Hopefully the group will make an honest assessment of their job performance and discus how they might improve.


While some of the fundamental processes and concepts from his baseball experience might have applicability that can carry over into football, there is still a steep learning curve for DePodesta as he changes sports. That’s why, in his first months on the job, DePodesta has spent a lot of time asking questions rather than delivering opinions.

“There’s a challenge for me personally, which is trying to catch up to where I was in baseball,” DePodesta said. “In baseball, I had a 20-year library of players and transactions and all that sort of thing that I don’t have right now, very admittedly. As we were going through free agency this week, I was talking to some of the guys in the room and I was asking a lot of questions, but I said, I literally am not trying to lead the witness here, I truly don’t know and don’t have an opinion one way or the other. So that’s a real challenge for me, and just trying to take our mindset and bring it into football and create processes and systems around that is challenging. As an organization though, and probably even more importantly, we have big challenges in front of us. We have a super competitive league, we haven’t been very successful on the field and we have a big mountain to climb, but I think we have the right team of people in place to do it.”

Coming from a baseball background with no NFL front office experience, DePodesta will likely have even more doubters in football than he ever had in baseball, even when he was trying to do things in baseball that went against conventional wisdom.
link

9-7

Just say it if you don't want to answer my question. I'm not going to go through several more posts just to play more games.

He can't there is no one.

Am I wrong, or are we basically arguing that the guy that just started doing his job may not yet be good at it?

And we should have someone that's good at it?

But hey, that doesn't mean fire the guys that's doing it.....

He is saying hire another "football guy" who was an ex-GM and has 20 years of experience and add him into the mix. I am just wondering what his job title is exactly and the extent of his power. Specifically, I am wondering if mac wants him in charge of the 53 man roster.

So, hire someone that's unemployed.

Because that usually is a sign of being good at your job..

I read through the FO threads, and there's nothing wrong with a continual discussion of the front office, Mac is certainly entitled to post what he wants to, even if his posts come off as being paranoid anti-management.
He has a pulpit and he gonna use it.
Oh and I don't like or trust Haslam either. I suggest he fade into the background for the next few seasons and let his hires prove their worth over time.

It's pretty obvious that mac doesn't think that the FO is good at their jobs. He pretty much came to that conclusion when they were hired and has posted as much ever since.

How did Holmgren work out?

How did Policy work out?

Mac - there is a caustic and accusatory attitude in all your posts about the FO. Certainly I find it odd if you are so negative and have coined the term "Harvard boys" as if it's a cuss word.... And you want them to stay.

What I get from your posts is not "damn they tried, but they got that one wrong" .... I get "these vguys are idiots, don't know chit and are incompetent"

If you think they are incompetent then you also have to want them gone. If that's not what you feel IMO you can discuss their possible missteps without so much disdain. There's always room for evaluation and critique, but that's not my take away from your posts.

Maybe the simple, if not disappointing answer is: there is no solution for the short term?

I wish I had seen it in print so I could post a link, but on one of the radio programs they played a short clip of DePo talking about how when he signed on, he only had a limited amount of data coming from the college ranks. Having a year under his belt come the next Draft, they'll have a lot more info and data to work with.

It may very well take at least 3, possibly 4 years, before DePo's system is fully developed. My line of thinking being:

Year 1: DePo's going to look at the current analytical models and see what they give him information wise. He probably has some ideas but needs to see it in action. Much like your mechanic has to see what your car is doing before he can figure out how to fix it.

Year 2: They've identified strengths/weaknesses in those models, identified what kind of information they needed but wasn't provided and how to get that data. His model starts to take a much more defined shape.

Year 3 and 4: This is where I'd expect to see the refined model AND it's viability. Are we identifying quality players? Do we have a system in place that properly develops the players already acquired?

I think you do make a valid point about having an experienced "football" guy in the room. I think if you are going to do that though, he'd have to be someone who is willing to embrace what they are wanting to implement vs. being an impediment to the process. Given the ridicule the organization took when forming this FO, there probably aren't many people who'd fit that description.

Don't forget, Hue was considered a "football" guy when we hired him and there was speculation on whether or not this was going to be a good pairing.

Also consider, we have a lot of quality experience within the coaching ranks on our team. If Sashi, DePo, and Hue wanted input about a WR prospect... would they be better off asking a GM type of person OR would they be better served asking Al Saunders?

Of course, considering how Tabor was apparently overridden on the kicker, maybe the FO doesn't give a darn what the coaches think? lol

Other than to try and make mac look bad, is there a purpose to the conversation you two are having? Neither of you are talking about the FO. You are ganging up on mac. It's these types of conversations that start all the trouble on this board.

No. You start all the trouble the board.

Also, to repeat an earlier tone you've made on this board, please don't tell people how and what to post on this board.

The reality is that this owner, front office, and coaching staff have made us the worst team in the league. Now, if there is a means to an end, which is a giant leap in my opinion, then we can all live with this season. Until proven otherwise, however, this has been a disaster.

I don't think anyone should be fired for at least a few years. But, if this doesn't produce huge dividends by the end of that time, this will be an embarrasment beyond words.

I still watch every game when I'm not traveling, but my apathy is at an all time high. I cheer and root for them, but at the end of every game I'm just laughing. It's comical now, the Browns aren't worth any anger, or to be thought of for more than a few minutes after a game.

People who are blindly positive and doing the "rah rah woof woof" for this team after all these recent years baffle me. Especially when they label anyone who points out the reality of this team as negative and downers. It's amazing to me.

Our problem is Ownership. We've had bad owners since the get go. They have consistently backed the wrong horse and seem determined to hire incompetent idiots to run this franchise.

I'm embarrassed that Haslam owns the franchise I root for. He's a crook.

I agree with every word of this.

However, I hope the last part wasn't an attempt to defend mac. mac uses this board as a place to vent and rant. He states the same thing over and over again without adding anything new to the conversation. He doesn't provide solutions. He just whines.

Is he right on some things? Sure, but make the point and move on. Personally, I find it a source of comedy as I do with many posters on here. But no one should be defending mac.

No, I did not have mac in mind when posting that part. After over a decade with mac, he does tend to drive things into the ground....sorry Mac, I love ya, but, you know. Haha.

I see a lot of bashing of "negative" posters when I stop in and read this board. It's BS given the track record of this team and the current situation.