DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Major League Baseball Continues to Waffle on Chief Wahoo

Really? Your kids had to calm you down? This right here is the problem. You got angry at a joke made by a person who's sole purpose in life is to make jokes?

Look guys, I've said this before, I can understand what you're saying but I just don't agree.

The chief is just a caricature. It wasn't and isn't meant to be offensive at all. His skin tone isn't meant to be an offense, it's the red of the teams colors. That our guys wear on the field for every game.

I don't look at the chief and see some 'yes massa' smile on his face. Looks to me like a mascot that loves to play baseball.

As I have said so many times over the years...

Ted is Wise!

How 'bout the Cleveland Colonel Sanders? And the mascot is a bucket of chicken?

Quoted for truth!

I'd have to disown the team, then.

Especially since I'm more of a Popeyes kind of guy.

There are people on these boards that would find that offensive and racist Ted. Such a shame these whiny times we live in.

So, you won't back off including someone else's quote when replying to me?



What a stand up citizen you are.



Wow, I could have a field day with this: attributing other people's posts to you.

No. Would you consider it a win?


I just jump in to these as a exercise. I am sure I will always be able to find a Chief hat online.


Overall, I think it silly to be hammering it out with frinds over a team logo. It's a friggen logo, but, it is a logo I like.


Heck, my great-great Grandmother was full blooded Blackhawk.....maybe it was 3 greats....at any rate, I have nothing against Natives. They are a part of who I am.

It was a joke brother!

Just wanted to jump in on this one - there are a lot of good points and wanted to give a slightly different perspective about Native Americans and my experience with the logo.

Back in 1992, I transferred to New Mexico from a couple years in Germany. I had been to some post-communist areas & 3rd world countries during my tours with the Air Force but had never been to the desert southwest. I went out to the reservations and a proud people were living in deplorable conditions - worse than I had seen before on US soil...and yes I get the sovereign nation by the tribes.

To make a long story short, after learning about and working with various native american tribes, I could not in good faith proudly wear my Chief Wahoo...not after seeing what they went through and the sacrifices they made. They are a proud people who had been taken advantage of numerous times by our Government...the last Code Talker died in Albuquerque back in 2014 IIRC

To wear the hat in the middle of Taos, Santa Fe, or Acoma Pueblo, or even Albuquerque where we lived - well it took what this thread is talking about - for me to whole new level of reality. Mr. Wahoo went into the closet ...

I can't debate the intent or background history of the logo but in my world, no way can he be worn by me with pride while looking into the eyes of a true native american that I think deep down I know it is slightly mocking him (though maybe not intentionally)

Just my experience so I'm cool with the logo change...I don't think it quite falls into the general PC issues of the day thought...IMHO

You know that and I know that but these are strange times my friend.

I just explained what I meant. Do you still have a problem w/that?

Ahhh..............I see. This has become a matter of personal attacks rather than addressing the topic.

Whatever...........

See?

I have no idea what you are even saying other than you trying to pick another fight.

Let's leave at this, arch. You are awesome and I suck. You win. I lose. Now..................goodbye.

Again, here's the problem. You are taking this far too personally.

Sure do.

Right.

I like Chief Wahoo. He looks like a happy dude. If sjw whine, I dont care.

I don't eat Uncle Ben's because I don't like rice.
I don't use Aunt Jemima's maple syrup on my pancakes because of the logo/bottle/name.

I have always felt the '48 version of wahoo was offensive
The current wahoo baffle me as to why it is offensive.
I would like it changed because I really don't care for - racist or not.

Why don't we get some of the Erie tribes together and come up with a new chief wahoo or a new logo that they find acceptable?

What is sjw?

Social Justice Warrior. You can google all about it.

When I was a kid and the Indians were fighting the Washington Senators for the basement year after year, my Dad would say, "The Chief is still smiling, he knows his day is coming."

Dad is gone for many years now but I will cherish that memory and the tradition until I am gone to join him.

When times are bad, my Sons will say, "Well, the Chief is still smiling", and we will laugh.

You don't just throw away a tradition like that because someone finds a cause like a "Rebel without a Clue".

Oh--------------so you intended to insult other posters.

Seems like a lot of defenders of Chief Wahoo have one thing in common.

Its not really an insult. I am sure the liberals on this forum would love to be called that.

Eve....I like you. However, I want to ask you a serious question.

Can you comprehend how assigning labels to groups of people is short-sighted and potentially damaging?

Only if its negative. Liberals get in line for their sjw badges.

Never understood how social justice got a bad reputation, or why we should freely mock anyone who believes in social justice.

The SJW label looks to mock those individuals. Not sure why the alt-right looks to undermine individuals who try to fight against injustice.

But, it goes back to older single white Christian males feeling threatened by "the other". Bob Dylan told you these days were coming. You can come along, or you can continue to whine about the good old days of oppressing minorities.

I'm not old (35), am white and not "alt-right."I don't feel threatened, either. I just like Chief Wahoo, no more, no less.

Rocket, I'd imagine you'd take umbrage with the Nestle's Eskimo Pie, given your ties to the local community.

What is social justice?

And then you turn around and use "alt right" as a slam?

Wow.

No. But I would also never consider it someone else's loss, either- which is why I asked my original question as I did.

Some Dawgs in here are fighting in favor of Wahoo as if their very lives depended on it. 40 even said he'd 'lose his lunch' over "political correctness" if Dolan dropped the mascot.

I just don't get that. And THAT'S why I asked the question as I did.
I need to understand why the defense of something that looks so hideously cartoonish incites such ardent passion.

Which brings me to another question... not just for you, 'Peen- but for anyone else who reads this post:

"If Dolan chose to keep the Indians name and replace "Chief Wahoo" (the logo AND the name) with another logo... who would be upset by the change- and why?

Let's take this thread wherever it might go, shall we?

The most vocal opposition to these ideas get rooted in what I mentioned. Those who don't see the big deal? I believe it just comes from a lack of education, and exposure on the issues. We'd be better off as a society if people willingly interacted on a deep level with a race, and socioeconomic group vastly different than their own.
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I avoid using the "e" word. It's a Russian word that literally translates to "one who eats raw meat", and used to demean Alaskan Natives as savages. That word also simplifies Alaskan Natives as a single group, but 13 different Alaskan Native groups hold eons of old ties to Alaska.

The picture doesn't bother me. Many individuals in my community wear such coats, continually practice subsistence life, speak their native language, our school district embraces a dual-language education model, and they participate in the traditional cultural dancing.

I'm lucky that I get to do what I do. I'm blessed, and I was given a well respected name of an individual who advocated a lot for the Alaskan Native group I serve; they see what I stand for, and I get thanked through actions rather than just simply words.

Well by God, we ought to ban chief wahoo and also ban the word eskimo.

I've finally seen the light. If it offends even 1% of the population, ban it. Change it.

That'll fix things.

Thanks for sharing this post, Traveler.

Folks: this is an example of A Fellow American's character on display.

Rock your conscience, Dawg.

Good people of other views will see it differently than you... but I for one, respect that you made this personal choice for your own reasons.

Respect/regard,
Clemdawg.

You would understand if you lived up here, Arch.

You seem like a good guy and this is just an issue we see differently on. No worries.

On a side note, I made the switch to renewing my season ticket package to a 40 game plan for 2017.

Maybe we'll run into each other at a ball game (assuming you're renewing/renewed).

Go Tribe

Not sure I'll be down in Ohio this summer. I start a masters degree program in January, and I think I'll take summer classes up in Fairbanks this summer.

I just came back from a month up there and it is an amazing place and the people friendly. The Natives there do not live on reservations and are a proud people who can certainly take care of themselves.

I often wonder why you never talk about what they discussed with me, that due to the long winters and lack of work they are infested with a drug and alcohol culture that is destroying them. They have tried everything in this losing battle to especially save their youth.

They all receive the oil bonus money which perpetuates the problem. Some years they can receive $20,000, some years $8,000. With money in their pockets and idle hands during long winters, drugs and alcohol come calling, taking a heavy toll.
The suicide rates are very high there.

We may poke and jab each other all the time, but I'm truly glad you posted this. Get ready for a book...
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Where'd you go? Did you visit the bush and the road system?



No one ever really asks. Plus I don't like to talk about the bad unless I really want to. It heavily weighs on me, and that's because it leads to a direct impact in our ultra-rural schools.



It's a HUGE historical piece. The 13 different Alaskan Natives groups had a wide array of experiences from outsiders. Ranging from cultural genocide of "inferior and savage" ways of living to "Well, the religion you practice actually is Christianity! Here's more information for you.", but also lead to "We're going to beat your inferior culture out of you, and whip you if you utter a word of your native tongue." The region I live and teach in didn't get it as bad, but the original schools set up in the region greatly oppressed Alaskan Native cultural practices in the schools; the Bureau of Indian Affairs did a bunch of cultural harm.

The alcohol and drug problem exists as a big problem due to unspoken and unresolved cultural trauma. The job piece in the remote villages leads to intense poverty, but some don't seem to mind due to subsistence being a way of life for many. At the same time, the younger generations see the poverty, and the issues it causes.

Anyone familiar with Freedom Writers? We're reading that in class, and my students draw parallels (without any of my prompting) between the challenges in bush Alaska and south central Los Angeles. Many differences exist, but the same poverty struggles happen.
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40, the people I serve remains a huge reason why I take issue with Wahoo. I see how the state usually forgets about Alaskan Natives in their policies, and initiatives. We have an individual who was raised in a different village from where I teach on this board. Look into the earlier pages here, and you'll see his story.

The oil check, they call it the Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD), usually only pays out to 1k-2k. Some Alaskan Native corporations receive further oil royalties, and that's what you're talking about. It varies due to the current fluctuation of oil prices.

Suicide? Yeah, that's been very much in my face. I'm a teacher, but it feels like I wear the hat of a teacher, social worker, parent, older brother, mentor, mediator, counselor, and a host of other things.

The issues remain complex.

Wahoo represents the oppression that the people I serve face. He's a symbol that represents the lack of knowledge and mindfulness to those I help.

Maybe you can understand it? I doubt I can change your view, but I hope this helps to see things from the other side.

Sorry I don't ever feel bad for drunks and druggies because its a choice they made. Of course if you make bad choices your life will suffer for it.