DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

Link to Sashi video.. link

I think they just wanted the max amount of comp picks. It's why they didn't resign certain guys. Kevin Zeitler is the big name I'm looking at.

Oh man I miss Mr Hero.

Romanburgers rule!

I'd have to go to Streetsboro or Kent to get one though. There are none closer than that.

j/c...

From Sashi Brown's press conference today...

Sashi Brown Says Hue Jackson Not On Hot Seat; Continuity, Player Development At Heart Of Rebuild Plan
November 14, 2016 3:50 PM By Daryl Ruiter | 92.3 The Fan

BEREA (92.3 The Fan) – For once the Cleveland Browns are going to see their plan through.

Even if it means 0-16.

So they say.

Browns executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown said Monday that Hue Jackson is not going anywhere.

“He’ll be here,” Brown said. “We want a team of people that are going to be together for a long time. That has always been a disadvantage for us. As we look around our division, you don’t even have to go past the three teams in our division. Look at the continuity that they have.”

Jackson’s first year in Cleveland has seen the Browns extend their longest overall losing streak to 13 games and worst start in team history is currently at 0-10 as the prospects for a winless season grow by the day prompting speculation that Jackson could be on the hot seat.

“We are not focused on 0-16,” Brown said. “Hue is going to be here as our head coach. We talked about continuity being one of the core premises of what we wanted accomplished going out in January. We know that we have a head coach that can be successful here and lead us to a lot of victories and a lot of winning.”

Brown believes that owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam will stay the course despite what has turned into a season that no one could imagine at 0-10 and their propensity to fire people quickly. The Haslam’s have already fired 3 sets of GMs and coaches in 4 years.

“I’m confident we’ll have the opportunity to build it and we keep our ownership well-informed,” Brown said. “They also see the signs of progress.”

Those signs of progress are extremely difficult to see for a franchise that has now lost 28 of its last 31 games.

“It’s hard to look at this other than wins and losses,” Brown said. “I’m disappointed for our fans and the folks here working in the office. We don’t want to be here. But we also think we’re on the way to a much brighter future.”

Brown acknowledged that while they are disappointed in the record of the team, they knew the road to contention would be a long one.

“We always know this was going to be a major challenge,” Brown said.

Brown added that the Browns are “a very strong organization and can withstand anything,” and they “can’t fall into the trap of a quick build.”

Other quick notes from Brown Monday afternoon:

– Brown was asked to identify what ‘the plan’ is and it consists of 3 levels:
1. Change the culture, which Brown feels they have already done.
2. Focus on developing a core nucleus of players.
3. Commitment to the plan and continuity while maintaining a collaborative approach and continuing to bring in players with high character.

– Rookie quarterback Cody Kesser has impressed and “we’re really pleased with what he’s been able to do.” Brown cited Kessler’s poise, intelligence and ability to pick up the offense. Brown also believes he’ll be able to develop arm strength needed to be successful in the NFL.

“He’ll continue to work on that and for us I think Cody’s done some things,” Brown said. “There’s a lot of dimensions to playing quarterback in the league. We’re seeing a lot of quarterbacks be more successful in different ways. I think we all know that under our system pushing the ball down the field will be important, and I think that’ll develop in time. What I think is probably even more important than that is to be able to possess the ball and to move it without turning it over. So he’s done both those things and he’ll continue to develop. But he’s still young in his career. Certainly I don’t think you want to pass final judgment on someone after eight, 10 games.”

– They will continue to evaluate quarterbacks each year in the draft and look for ways to build depth at the position.

“All the teams in this league, whether you’re New England and you’ve got Tom Brady and you draft Brissett, whether you’re Philly and you’ve got Bradford and you draft Wentz, all the teams are always looking for quarterbacks,” Brown said. “We will be the same. There just aren’t enough of them. There’s no quarterback tree out there where you know you’re going to get one.”

– They do not regret their decision to trade the No. 2 pick to Philadelphia. “We like the players and positioning [in the future].” As for whether or not they will repeat the approach of stockpiling picks and forgoing elite talent at the top of the draft again, Brown said it’s too premature to entertain either approach because the evaluation of the upcoming draft class is not complete.

– Brown addressed criticisms they blew it in the draft by not keeping the No. 2 pick and taking elite impactful players like Carson Wentz, Ezekiel Elliott or Joey Bosa, who are off to tremendous starts to their careers.

“There are very few rookies and young players that hit the ground running,” Brown said. “There are certainly, kind of anecdotally, some isolated incidences of that. But a big piece of what we want to do is develop players over time.”

– Brown said he feels for fans and frustration of losing but remains confident loyal fans will remain.

“I know it’s been tough for the fans,” Brown said. “I don’t think we’re in danger of losing our fan base. I think we are in a really privileged position to have one of the best fan bases in the NFL. The winning ways are coming and the days are winning are coming. We’re confident in that. We just have to stick to the plan and support our fans through that process.”

Article

The Browns are continuously losing, so looks like they got the continuity part down. I fail to see how they think they are making progress when they can't even win a game.

They have been trying to make that stick for a while.

The theory is if you pretend they have had the job for longer you can call for their head quicker.

Not many people are buying it.

J/C

For the most part I think they stay the course but, I have a hunch that full evaluations take place at years' end and I wouldn't be surprised to see them tweak a few coaches in the mix. Hue will be safe, the majority of position coaches also but I think they may evaluate performance regardless of the talent that's been given. Interesting times.

Mac, you still seem to forget that DePodesta didn't have input in this last draft. He simply watched the process. He will have input in this draft.

I am not sticking up for the guy because I think he is worth it....I don't know if he is or isn't at this point. I am simply saying you are off base in placing any blame on him at this point.

And there is this call for getting and experienced football talent evaluator. I that that was the purpose of hiring Andrew Berry. He was the Colts Pro scouting Director for 4 years prior to the hire.

Ken Kovash was the Browns director of football research for 3 years.

They both currently have the title of Vice President of player personnel.

Neither count as experienced talent evaluators? If not, then what criteria qualifies someone for that distinction?

Cleveland Browns must not make huge changes, but must study mistakes -- Terry Pluto

Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
updated November 14, 2016 at 6:11 PM
link


BEREA, Ohio -- I know it's part of the media's job to examine every word and comment when a general manager speaks during an 0-10 season.


That is happening after Cleveland Browns VP Sashi Brown spoke to the media on Monday.

Most of what he said was vague, because it makes little sense to make any major pronouncements about Cody Kessler or anyone else.

I asked him about Hue Jackson returning, and Brown said the coach would indeed be back.

Over the weekend, I wrote that owner Jimmy Haslam should tell Jackson, "Even if you don't win a game, you are the coach next year."

They can look at the coaching staff. Most teams make changes nearly every year in at least one of the assistant coaching positions.

There are reports Ray Horton could be in trouble. If the Browns decide to replace the defensive coordinator, that's not a sign of instability.

It might be a necessity, especially if the defense continues to look confused and sometimes disorganized.

Yes, the blame for having to call a timeout before the first play of the Baltimore game falls on Jackson. He is the head coach.

But Horton really is the head coach of the defense, granted a lot of power by Jackson. The Browns defense had 12 men on the field for the first play -- and had to call a timeout to avoid a penalty for too many players on the field.

That is Horton's department, along with whatever assistant on the sidelines was supposed to keep track of having the right players on the field.

So Jackson should be back ... period ... end of discussion.

I believe Haslam not only knows he would look foolish if he fired the coach -- he knows it would be foolish, even if the Browns finish 0-16.

WHAT ABOUT THE FRONT OFFICE?

Haslam made the decision to put rookies in charge of his football operation.

Sashi Brown is basically the general manager. He is an attorney and salary cap expert. He had not run a football front office before.

Paul DePodesta is the chief strategy officer. He comes from a baseball background.

Andrew Berry is the player personnel director. That's a step up from being the pro scouting director, his job with the Indianapolis Colts until hired by the Browns in January.

So let's think about this for a moment.

Haslam wanted a new approach to the front office. He put people from different backgrounds into traditional football positions.

What are the odds of them avoiding some rookie mistakes?

The answer is obvious.

But assuming these are bright, hard-working men dedicated to the job -- don't you think they'd improve?

I do.

I also don't even want to consider another nuclear option for the front office.

That's why Brown, DePodesta, etc need to absolutely, positively stay.

TAKE A HARD LOOK

But the front office must also go through the process of evaluating their approach to the 2016 draft.

Did the Browns really think Carson Wentz couldn't become a top 20 quarterback? That was what DePodesta told ESPN's Tony Grossi before the season. If that's the case, who made that decision based on what data.

It's far too early to know if Wentz will a Pro Bowl quarterback. But he has shown enough already to realize he is a viable, NFL starter. He has a chance to be far more than that.

A lot of the questions dealt with the Browns picking Cody Kessler over Dak Prescott.

Here's a list:

Jared Goff -- 0 starts
Wentz -- 9 starts
Paxton Lynch -- 1 start
Christian Hackenberg -- 0 starts
Jacoby Brissett -- 2 starts
Cody Kessler -- 7 starts
Connor Cook -- zero starts
Dak Prescott -- 9 starts
No quarterback drafted below Prescott (fourth round, No. 134 by the Dallas Cowboys) has played enough to matter.

A lot of teams and executives missed on Prescott, including Bill Belichcik of the New England Patriots. He took Brissett in the third round ahead of Prescott.

I would love to see the Browns' scouting reports on Prescott.

If they dismissed Prescott ... and if Wentz was indeed not even supposed to be an average NFL quarterback ... the Browns need to really revamp how they ranked their quarterbacks.

Meanwhile, Kessler is the third best quarterback in this draft -- based on the small sample of 10 games.

The top pick in the entire draft (Goff) has yet to take a snap in the regular season. He is the with Los Angeles Rams, who are 3-5. He is behind journeyman Case Keenum. The Rams traded up for Goff, yet he hasn't played.

Finding quarterbacks isn't easy, and the Browns must continue to examine their own system of scouting them.

THE OVERALL APPROACH

Fans won't like this because the team is 0-10, but I like the general direction of the Browns when it comes to the draft.

Pile up the picks, sort through the players.

Bring in guys cut by other teams who have promise -- such as Terrelle Pryor.

Brown is correct when he said you can't fully judge the Browns decision to pass on Wentz until a few years pass.

I write that being a Wentz fan.

I also write that knowing Corey Coleman has real potential. They also used picks from draft deals for Shon Coleman, Kessler and Derrick Kindred. They have first- and second-round picks in the 2017 draft after all the trades were made.

I have no clue if this combination of analytics, traditional scouting and a coaching staff led by Hue Jackson will work.

But I do know what will fail -- changing key parts of this front office/coaching staff again.

the real tough part is, after going 0-16 or 1-15 ... next year at this time, if we're something like 1-9 ... how loyal/consistent will the FO remain

I am sure that writers read message boards....this one and others. It's a good way to get a feel for the pulse of the fans. They don't have time to do interviews on the street.

It would be stupid if they didn't devote a little time each day/week reading the boards. I doubt they are very active as posters but wouldn't be surprised if they added a comment or two every now and then.

Zero progress, only regression. They aren't football people though, so they don't realize that or that you have to win games in the NFL. At least theh have a nifty computer program and some spreadsheets to do all their scouting for them and tell them what 2nd and 3rd tier scrubs to draft.

Let us hope that Haslam rumor is true and that he isn't going to accept one of the worst failures in NFL history and stay status quo. 0-16 and you have no choice but to clean house. It is obvious their grand computer generated plan is a failure. 3-13 to 0-16 kinda says it all....

Passing on impact players and drafting guys that need time to develop is controversial, at best.

I hope that the Browns draft two impact players w/their first round picks this year instead of trading down and getting future picks and extra 3rd and 4th rounders that are just guys.

Is it really all that simple and obvious? Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 in his first season as head coach of the Cowboys...

I'm not saying Hue Jackson will be Jimmy Johnson, but I find holes in your black and white logic.

I can't eat them anymore, but I used to go to the one of the two in Maple Heights when I worked up there. One is at Southgate shopping center and the other is kinda close to the Harley dealer on 43.

The FO does need experience too no doubt but hey are not at fault for missing the field goal against Miami, or fumbling inside the 10 yard line against Washington or blowing a 20 point lead against Baltimore. That rests squarely on the players 1st and then the coaches. If we had won those games and had 3 wins there wouldn't be nearly as much anger and negativity around this team. I know we didn't win them but let's face it, we probably should have or at least 2.

We aren't totally devoid of experience.. We have Andrew Berry (he probably doesn't count because he's another Harvard guy).

We also have Hue Jackson as well. Not a slouch at all.

Discussing this is a little like twisting in the wind LOL.

For the record (and yes, this may come back to bite me)I'm of the belief that this approach is as good as any we've tried in the last 16 years. But this one will take time to see what happens.

Your as bad as mac with this BS ... we all know who he is ... all u do is more clutter to his BS ...

At one point in everyone's career, they have no experience.

This staff couldn't lace Jimmy's shoes. JJ's Cowboys showed progress in numerous aspects of the game and clear improvement. Name one thing Hue Jacksom and the Harvard Boys have improved upon. Right, they haven't.

You say that as if the drive isn't worthwhile..... this confuses me.

Experience is that thing you get right after you needed it.

So, less than a year after putting a FO in place, we're deciding to fire tem..

And hire someone else, who's super experienced, but most likely, also got fired from somewhere..

WOW ... do u pay attention ... maybe u oughta read what u write ...

Good god man ...

U do realize that our last two FO's were given a total of 1 year and two years respectively ...

So based on HISTORY it very well may happen ...

If they do get fired (and there's NOT A SHOT IN HELLTHEY WILL) maybe this time we'll try SOMEONE FROM BASKETBALL ..

WOW ....

Paul Depodesta Chief Strategy Officer for the Cleveland Browns

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...4d-a715669be515

"His ability to create better processes and systems throughout organizations, his use of data as a tool to produce better outcomes, and his relentless focus on looking for innovative ways to create more success will be a strong asset as we look to be as comprehensive as possible in our decision making.
“Additionally, Paul will help members of our player development, high performance and analytics departments maximize their efforts. There are many areas that we have not fully capitalized on that will enhance the growth and performance of our players over time.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_DePodesta
"In reality, DePodesta played football in college and wanted to be a football coach,[13][15][16] seen in a photo wearing number 17.[17] After graduating from Harvard with a degree in economics, he became an intern for the Canadian Football League's Baltimore Stallions in 1995.[18]"

Without his 20 year baseball library he went from scout to Assistant GM under John Hart in 3 years and then was hired into the same job in Oakland where he made history.

He sounds more experienced to be Chief Strategy Officer than just about anyone else on the planet.

Sashi Brown
Senior Vice President And General Counsel Jaguars 7 years, Executive Vice President and General Counsel at Cleveland Browns 4 years

Not exactly a newbie coming in either.


Andrew Berry Vice President Player Personnel
Played Conerback for Harvard, 3 All Ivy League CB

4 years as Colts' Pro Scouting Coordinator
7 years in Colts scouting dept

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/01/cleveland_browns_andrew_berry.html

"Andrew's really special," he told The Harvard Crimson. "For my two cents, he'll be running an NFL team in 15 years. At 37 years old, he'll be running an NFL franchise. I have no question."

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2016/01/cleveland_browns_make_a_bold_r.html

"But I was told the Colts used very little analytics. They are more of a traditional football front office. Berry did normal scouting. But the Harvard background clearly makes him open to the new way the Browns will be doing business."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHTqwopaAmY

It appears that he is a football guy with experience.

Ken Kovash Vice President, Player Personnel
Last 3 years as the Browns director of football research
3 years with the Dallas Cowboys as the team's senior analytics manager.

Kevin Meers Director of Research and Strategy
3 Years Analytics with the Browns
1 Year Analytics with Dallas Cowboys

Chisom Opara Director of Player Personnel
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...b3-92848eb6ae5d

1 year scouting for Ravens
12 years scouting for Browns

Bobby Vega Director of College Scouting
9 years Cleveland Browns

Dan Saganey Director of Pro Scouting
7 years Scouting Cleveland Browns
3 years Coaching College

Mike Cetta Director of Scouting
4 years Scouting Cleveland Browns

Glenn Cook Assistant Director of Scouting
4 years in the Pro personnel department for the Packers as Assistant Director of Scouting, 1 year scout for Colts, 1 year playing minor league baseball for the Cubs

Zach Ayers Scout
4 years scout, HS coach 5 years

Charles Bailey Scout
Pro personnel director for the Jacksonville Jaguars from 2003-08,10 years with the Pittsburgh Steelers as a scout and pro personnel coordinator, the vice president of football operations and assistant general manager of the New Orleans Saints 1999-2003

Zac Bocian Scout
I could not find anything on this guy

Colton Chapple BLESTO Scout
3 years Scout

Lake Dawson Scout
WR Chiefs 1994–1998, WR Colts 1999-2001, Pro Personnel Assistant Seahawks 2001-2005, Assistant Director of Pro Personnel Seahawks 2005-2007, Director of Pro Personnel 2007-2011, Vice President of Football Operations Titans 2011-2012, Vice President of Player Personnel Titans 2012-2015

Sam DeLuca Scout
3 years Scout, 3 years Intern Eagles

Ron Hill Scout
Hill comes to the Browns with 34 years of experience as an NFL scout and player personnel executive, most recently serving as the NFL’s vice president of football operations. Hill began his career as a college scout for the Dallas Cowboys, and then worked his way up to regional scout and assistant director of player personnel with the Denver Broncos. He then worked as the Jacksonville Jaguars’ director of pro personnel before serving as the Atlanta Falcons’ vice president of football operations and vice president of player personnel for seven years. Over the course of his time on NFL personnel staffs, Hill has been a part of 10 conference championship berths and four Super Bowls.

Gerald McCully Scout
32 years of various coaching jobs in HS, College and Arena League, 7 years running various football camps, 17 years scouting for the Arena League, 1 year scouting for the Browns

Patrick Moore Scout
13 years various college coaching jobs, 3 years scouting

Marshall Oium Scout
QB University of Chicago, 3 years scouting

Max Paulus Scout
3 years Scouting

I think we have the experience thing covered.

Nice post. good research my man. I think that counters the football experience thingy. thanks for the leg work.

LOL.....now you are sounding goofy.


You're the guy, man!!! LOL

So let's fire them and hire Ray Farmer.

He has experience.

Yeah, but your subject is always the same. That crook Haslem and those brains he hired to run the FO. Pretty easy to be first when the subject never changes.

Promoting Chisom to Director of Player Personnel, is going to turn out to be a really good move IMO The guy is very good at his job.

I've heard/read nothing but good things about him.

IMO, the story below is just another example of a "misjudgment" by the Browns new front office.


Many of the Browns scouts fired before the draft favored Carson Wentz


The Browns eventually traded down following the Rams' move up for Jared Goff

Jason La Canfora
Sep 18, 2016
link

The Browns' decision to pass on Carson Wentz in the draft combined with the rookie's sterling performance against them in Week 1, a potential season-ending injury to Browns starter Robert Griffin III and comments from Browns official Paul DePodesta intimating the Browns didn't believe Wentz would be a "top-20 quarterback" have created a tempest in Cleveland. As it turns out, not everyone involved in scouting quarterbacks in Cleveland before the 2016 draft was in agreement.

According to numerous sources with knowledge of the situation, several of the more seasoned scouts and evaluators the Browns parted with prior to the draft -- an unusual time to release such employees -- actually preferred Wentz to quarterback Jared Goff and believed him to be the greater pro prospect. It was clear to many in the organization dating back to December, when the Browns held intense draft meetings, that the newly-empowered analytics department, soon to be spearheaded by DePodesta, strongly preferred Goff. And new coach Hue Jackson and his offensive coordinator, Pep Hamilton, were not high on Wentz but prized Goff, sources said, and made that clear to the rest of the organization.

The Browns opted to release six members of the organization -- many of them experienced, old-school scouts -- just three weeks before the draft. At the time, they were bailing on the quarterback market in the draft (and Wentz in particular) and shopping their second-overall pick to other teams. Many of those men, a group that included former general managers and personnel directors, had never met DePodesta personally before being let go, and, with their contracts set to expire after the draft, they were going to be let go in 2016 as part of downsizing anyway.

But the timing of their release raised eyebrows then and continues to generate chatter now given the high-profile way in which their quarterback decision has played out and the fact that the segment of personnel they let go were more pro-Wentz than others.

Wentz has played just one game, and will surely face some hurdles in his rookie season, but the reviews on his debut were overly positive. The Browns could end up with the first pick in the draft, and evaluators are already gushing over Notre Dame junior quarterback DeShone Kizer. The Browns will almost certainly be taking a passer very high in 2017.

Disagree with the new boys and your fired!

The more experienced scouts who preferred Wentz...gone. The way it worked out, the only thing worse than passing on Wentz may have been "taking Goff", which was what the "analytics boys" wanted to do.

...think about that when you start to praise these guys for their ability to judge football talent.

At that point, the scouting was over. I don't see any real story here. I understand there may have been disagreement on who the better prospect was, but at that point the discussion with the scouts is largely over. A week or two before the draft isn't the time to be in a room with 20 people discussing scouting reports. At that time you are down to the inner circle of people are are going to make the decision.

Letting them go a few weeks early was doing them a favor. Scouts are hire from draft to draft. Only a slim few have contracts that run over 1 year. At the end of the draft you have many scouts seeking new employment. Our former guys got a 2 week head start on calling their buddies around the league to find another job.