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RE: Hooker vs Wisc, just curious if you saw/had responses to my comments?

Just watched and we must be seeing something very different.
Comparing the 2 tapes, like you said, i struggle find many questionable/unsure plays and very few negative plays (angles, not wrapping, missed tackles) as compared to the Wisc tape.

These are the plays that stood out to me:

:22s
:56s
1:13s
1:46s
3:26s
3:46s
3:55s
4:41s
5:28s
6:20s
6:49s
7:04s
9:12s
10:56s
11:53s

Which ones stood out to you?

I agree with most of your comments, but I subscribe to the projection school of draft prognostication which you say you avoid so our conclusions differ at times.

You mentioned the failure rate due to not easily scouted variables, so you avoid those variables and stick to the more concrete. I take the other approach of trying to discern as many variables as possible and trying to predict how they will interact and play out.

My way does leave more room for error to creep in, but I have to turn over every stone that I can. It's just the way I'm wired. I've got to fit all the disparate pieces together. Missing puzzle pieces irk me.

I do try to pair projection with production.

I brought up the Wisconsin tape initially because I was remembering a play where he blew up a "power" back pretty well. After re-watching the tape, the play I was thinking of was apparently against someone else (LJ Scott of MSU, maybe?) I'll have to see if I can track it down. The end of semester crunch has everything kind of blurring together for me at the moment.

I definitely understand your concern with Hooker's physicality, but the play I was thinking of was enough for me to check the physical enough box.

I'm not at my computer so can't give specific timestamps, but my concern is more of an overall relentlessness question. Does he fight to get into the play all the time? When it's a running back not directly at him he seems to give up and almost let himself be blocked at times.

With Hooker he's flying across the field to even be in position to miss those tackles, take those angles, etc. He's young and I think he can improve technically in those areas, but he's shown the will to do it.

With Adams you see him take good angles, not missing tackles etc, but when there is no attempt they can't be bad. It's not that I often see him doing particularly egregious things, its more of a why do I quite often not see him heading towards the ball?

Could be nitpicking on my part, but its one of the things I noticed.

It's not just Adams, it is a lot of DBs (most?) It's not something I'm going to cross him off the list for. I like him a lot.

Hmmm. I can't say I see the same at all. For example there was a play where Henry breaks one done the sideline Adams is in pursuit gets stiff armed twice, the type of stiff arms that send most DBs hurtling to the ground, Adams keeps his feet maintains pursuit and is able to force him out of bounds. I would say relentless is an adjective that fits Adams.

I'm sure there could be explanations for miss tackles, but a miss tackle or bad angle is a missed tackle or bad angle.

Again, I did not notice this at all.

Yeah, I think you're picking nits. In the quoted portion just a above it reads as if you are absolving Hooker for missed tackles and poor angles and in this quoted portion you are panning Adams for taking good angles and not missing tackles.

We can agree to disagree.

But its not only that those variables are hard to scout. But from our vantage point they are impossible to scout. If those variables are hard to scout for NFL teams that are investing hundreds and thousands of dollars to glean any insight on those variables as possible...investigators, psychologists, interviews (family, friends, coaches, bartenders). Then I don't see "scouting" those variables from our vantage point as anything other then mere speculation based on 3rd hand at best information or at worst from agenda driven agents etc.

So from my perspective those variables are unknowable from our armchair scout vantage point.

I'm not even saying its a concern or something I grade down for the lack of having. I was explaining why I had Adams rated ahead of Hooker; its a just a bonus to Adams skillset. Somehow lost in all this convo is that I like Hooker, just not as my top S.

j/c:

Once again, I think....

If you want a S who you can move around, like Troy Polomalu, Tyrann Mathieu, etc than you would want Adams.

If you prefer a ball-hawking true FS, you would want Hooker.

NFL Media's Daniel Jeremiah says Ohio State redshirt sophomore S Malik Hooker "has the best ball skills of any defensive back in the country."

The scouting community en mass has been throwing Ed Reed comps at Hooker for the past month or so. Hooker is up to six interceptions, including three pick-sixes. "His tackling is still a work in progress," Jeremiah cautioned, noting that Hooker had a "couple fly-by missed tackles" against Michigan.



http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/cfb/nfl-draft/?ls=roto:cfb:morenewstop

Some places designate safeties into 3 categories:

S (strong safety)
F (free safety)
SAF (strong and free safety)

I think Adams is a SAF
------------------------------------

I wonder what advice Urban Meyer will give Hooker?
I know that there are some coaches that will tell a kid like Hooker the truth.

They are both excellent players and we would be fortunate to acquire either one of them, that is for sure!

If we traded down, I wouldn't rule out drafting Adams AND Hooker. Adams would be the SS and Hooker would be the FS. Those two would make our corners better.

Adams reminds me of Bob Sanders and Hooker reminds me of Ed Reed.

Just so I'm clear Vers, are you actually projecting Adams to Troy P or just using him as a "similar" skill set kind of reference? Because if anybody projects as the next Troy P, take him.

Similar in skill set. I am not stupid enough to think that anyone is just going to have the success that Troy P did.

No, I get that.. but where is his ceiling?

Unless you want the next Ed Reed aka Malik. Personally, I see Adams as a Sean Taylor type who can do it all extremely well. But I see more Troy in Jabrill. Someone you can count on to be hyperaggressive and make plays... for better or for worse. I honestly think the safety class this year is deeper than it's been in awhile. Especially if Hooker comes out. I also really like Marcus Maye, the safety out of Florida. I think he could be a game changer, not exactly in the way as to the top 3, but not that far off. He broke his arm a fortnight ago so, who knows what that will do for his combine and draft. But I think he's going to be very good in a few years. A building block to any solid secondary.

I see Bob Sanders in Adams, but not as vicious of a hitter (probably a good thing for his health). Malik is Ed Reed to me.

I hear you but, that means you are neglecting addressing another position that could help in the 1st round.

*LOL* ..

I dont see that happening ... although after last year and the # of WR's we took anything is possible with the MONEYBALLERS ...

but no matter who we draft with the first two picks and what positions they play .. we're going to be neglecting addressing another position that could help in the 1st rnd ... *L*

I just found that amusing, unless of course u think they will play the same position and one of them will always be on the bench ...

Anyhow, thanks for the *L* Ed ...

That's always hard for me to answer because there are so many unknown variables w/collegiate players.

I think Adams has the physical attributes to be a long-time starter in the NFL and even a Pro Bowler. But, I know nothing about his mental and emotional make-up, his work ethic, his ability to avoid injuries, his lifestyle, he will to want to be the best, etc...

J/c RE:candyman/DD

I didn't think it required further explanation.
You have to weight the overall benefit of the haul from the 1st round.

Drafting 2 Safeties vs
An Interior Defensive player and a Safety
Edge Rusher and a Safety
CB and Safety etc...

I think you get more benefit from drafting a Safety AND another postion then draft 2 Safety even if both play.

at least they used Arabic numerals.

Obviously u were wrong ... *L* ...

Something tells me most other posters understood my point...and others..*ahem*...needed a little more hand holding, lol

Jamal Adams looks pretty studly in the Texas A&M tape.

His Leadership/Energy really popped out in addition to the things we've been talking about. Seemed to do a good job keeping the assignments straight with all the motions.

Wish draftbreakdown had more of Davis Webb. He looks pretty thin, but was dropping it in the bucket down the field. I'll have to keep an eye on him during the Senior Bowl coverage. Decision making not always the greatest, but bounced back well.

Kazee the CB from San Diego State looks interesting, too. On the small side, but feisty with ball skills.

Not sure how big a need it is for us, but I like Jeremy Sprinkle from Arkansas. Complete TE.

Part Mel Kiper, part William Shakespeare.. well done.

Sounds more like Faulkner to me.

But zero Samuel Clemens.

You should check out JA va Auburn

im off today and couldn't sleep....
been looking at some other S and other guys: Watts A&M, Sanders UGA, Jackson Bama, Allen PSU, DL-Jonathan Allen, McDowell MSU, Jarron Jones ND, Wormley,
Edge: Miles, Tim Williams

Please let us know your opinion on him. Is he a JJ Watt-type, or more of a 4-3 DT? Thanks...

I dont wanna say JJ watt.. but dude is crazy disruptive. We need that coming from a DE baddddddd..

He reminds me a lot of Fletcher Cox from the Eagles. Strong hands, good speed, smart, disruptive. A guy you can move around and who can play in any system. Maybe a bit short for a DE and a bit light for a DT.

Awesome. I remember when defensive players were the divas. I don't mind having a hot head on defense. Who knows, maybe he'll wake them up.

Lol, you're not gonna catch me saying any prospect is like Watt. That dude is a rare freak...

Jonathan Allen is an interior/edge defensive lineman.
He can line up anywhere from 0/NT to DE/7 tech.
Uses his hands very well, very disruptive player.
Consistently wins his 1-on-1 vs OL that single block him.
Plays with good awareness i.e. find the ball carrier, bats down passes, hustles down the LOS to make tackles.
Can stalemate at times 1-on-1 in the run game and isn't stout enough to hold the point against double teams in the run game.
Athletic enough to often be used in Tackle and End stunts.

For me the best fit for him is a 3-tech 1-gap penetrator, just tell him to get up-field.
He's not the ideal for a 5-tech base 34 DE but he's a hellva upgrade over what we got now and then again we're only in base 34 ~40% of the time or less.
He'll do his damage in nickel and sub-packages as an interior DL....Nassib--Shelton--Allen--Ogbah

For those that like comps i think he's similar style player to Aaron Donald, Corey Liuget or for those draftniks he reminds me also of Grady Jarrett, Sheldon Rankins, Will Sutton....or a more stout and polished version of Sheldon Day

If the NFL Draft was tomorrow, this would be the top-10:

1. CLE
2. SF
3. JAX
4. CHI
5. NYJ
6. TEN (LA)
7. CAR
8. CIN
9. CLE (PHI)
10. NO

Philly is coming through in the clutch.

Who has the easier schedule between Carolina, Tennessee, and philly?

I think it's a good chance philly could rise to 6-7, maybe even 5 with some great luck.

I think Philly will probably lose out. They have an onslaught left. But the Rams have the 49ers left and Carolina probably won't win another game, but they might. If we could get a top 7 pick that would be extremely nice.

root for cincy to beat us, carolina to win 2-3 more, and philly to keep losing

I thought Tennessee's pick was from LA in the Goff trade? Speaking of Goff..........ouch. He looks horrible. Wonder how Ram fans are reacting to that trade. At least Wentz has looked like he can be good.

Speaking of Goff...........how in the hell can you live on this planet for over 20 years and not know that the sun rises in the east? LOL....that still cracks me up.


Oh.........and I find it somewhat irritating that there are a series of posts about how Brown's fans are rooting for the Browns and another team to lose and have some others win. How freaking pathetic is that? Instead of having conversations about the playoffs, we talk about winning the draft positioning battle. Like it will really help.