DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum offensive linemen

I think Drango is one of those guys that would need the benefit of having two good to great guys to either side of him like Bitonio had. Having him next to Erving just isn't going to cut it.

I think that can be said of most rookies who weren't top of the draft type choices.

Is Coleman good to go or is he still hurt? I'd really like to see him get some play time down the stretch.

he got in for a snap against i think it was cincy and michael johnson or carlos dunlap ran right around him for a sack. it was pretty bad.ran

So that's why I think I may have developed a cataract in my right eye in the last 6 week's. I'll ask the doctor when I see him on the 30th.

Reiter looked awfully good at center, but we have to temper that with the fact that he only played 3/4 of a game. Still I don't think we'll invest a ton in the draft at Center. We'll probably roll with Reiter/Erving/Greco and a lower pick or UDFA.

Guard we are really deep at. Bitonio/Greco/Paztor and then Drango or Coleman as depth. Again we probably won't invest much here.

Tackle is where we'll need to invest. Not only the RT spot, but Joe is starting to look more human this year as well. We have to look at this like he might have two or three years left. I'd draft a RT with the hope that he can be a LT when Joe is done. I'd also like to get some more depth with a late pick.

Connor McDermitt, if he falls to one of our seconds, Dion Dawkins or Roderick Johnson may fit the bill earlier.

Julie'n Davenport is a guy that I like later in the draft.

Cam Robinson might still be around with that mid first round pick.

I'm not very familiar with Davenport and McDermitt
I'm not a huge Roderick Johnson fan

Some linemen available late 1st/early 2nd that are worth considering:
(in no particular order)

Cam Robinson OT Alabama
Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin
Quenton Nelson, G, Notre Dame
Dion Dawkins, OT, Temple
Dan Feeney, G, Indiana
Adam Bisnowaty, OT, Pittsburgh
Ethan Pocic, C/G, LSU
Pat Elflein, C/G, Ohio State
Mason Cole, C, Michigan

I was reading an article about the Pitt Qb. They attributed a lot of his success to how strong the Pitt oline has played this year. Bisnowaty is their top guy but I'm wondering if any of the other guys are coming out. They could make for a later round steal.

That is a possibility and should not be overlooked. However, I do not know what their thinking is in this regard particularly as it pertains to Coleman and Drango. Other than that, we have decent depth across the line and have much greater need on our DLine and secondary. I would expect 3 out of the first 4 picks will/should go to the defence...

I've been thinking the same thing.

I think the FO thinks they already drafted that guy in Coleman. He's been "slowed" by injury recovery and Pasztor has played well since the Miami game - the only game we truly almost won.

I think Pasztor is a fine G and is - at worst - the backup/depth T you mentioned. I think Erving becomes a backup - at best - next year and is a swing G/T (yuck). Remember that Drango was a T in college.

If we see Coleman sometime this year we should get a better gauge on him. He's behind Pasztor, which doesn't sound like a terrible thing anymore/lately.

Thomas-Bitonio-Reiter-Greco-Pastor/Coleman as starters;
Coleman-Drango-Greco(C)-Erving-Bailey as backups. With the many needs on this team, I wouldn't use one of our first (5) or so picks on a T and I'm not sure I'd take an early-mid-round OL over an early-mid-round S or CB with that OL group and with our woeful D backfield.

If Coleman comes around and shows what they hoped when he was drafted, I doubt we go after a T unless one falls to us in a BPA situation. If Coleman looks to be a flop, my opinion changes drastically. Same if Bitonio can't recover from the dreaded Lisfranc surgery.

Again, I think "they" think they already did what you suggested they do...in last year's draft. If it looks like they failed on that one, I expect they will try again.

I think this is why they let Schwartz go and drafted Coleman who "had all the physicals before his injury to play LT".

I was talking about moving forward. I do not see our future RT on the roster.

Paztor has improved his pass blocking right? seems to be doing better in that category.

Just going by memory it doesn't appear he's been a major issue of late. Could be wrong though.

Pasztor is always good for 2-3 penalties though, usually in succession

According to this site he's had eight penalties this season:

http://www.nflpenalties.com/player/a-pasztor-cleveland-browns?year=2016

Personally, I think Pazstor is better at guard. He would also be great in the role of your 6th lineman.

I think having a guy who played LT in college and could eventually replace Joe T while manning RT in the meantime is a pretty good idea.

Agree with both your points. He's so tall his footwork issues might better suit him for being a guard.

Pazstor is a guard , and did a nice job filling in at left guard last season .. Speaking on that mater ; How many games has Bitonio play in three seasons?

We need to spend big on OL in the next draft, our line is a suckfest. I can't wait to part ways with Cam Erving. He spent the whole game against the Steelers with his mouth gaped open sucking for air, unless that was just his "I'm lost" or stupid face expression.

I have tried not to get down this season but it's finally wearing on me.

refs.. go ahead and start the draft thread..

Me too. If we can get Cam Roninson with our second 1st rounder, I might alter my thinking about drafting D with our first two picks.

Plug and play him for 2-3-4 years at RT, then shift him over to LT when Joe hangs 'em up.

I posted on another thread that it seems to come down to the o-line and another poster said no it doesn't. I don't care if someone disagrees with me I will respect another opinion but I really believe it begins with the O-line. We can't run, pass and our qb's are getting killed. What more is there to see?

Pasztur started the year at RT because we allowed Schwartz to leave, and we had no one else ready to go there. I don't think that there was an injury that forced him into the lineup.

If I remember correctly, they tried Bailey there first, then Drango, then Pazstor. I don't think Coleman was ever considered because he was still not all the way back from his collegiate injury.

Yeah I think that's the order.

It's been an issue for basically all of 18 years now ... the right side just isn't good. Schwartz was good enough and Mack helped to hide a lot as well. Now we're just seeing the sieve open

I think Schwartz was good. He struggled in year two and we were able to give him help at times because Joe plays on an island, but he was a good player. Not keeping him and Mack was a huge fail.

Joe Thomas on Browns letting top linemen go: 'You've got to lie in the bed you've made'


By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
November 20, 2016 at 8:44 PM
link

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Browns future Hall-of-Fame left tackle Joe Thomas watched his good friends Alex Mack and Mitchell Schwartz walk in free agency in the offseason.

Now, he's watching Cody Kessler and Josh McCown get pummeled game after game, and his quarterbacks getting hurt on a regular basis.

Kessler and McCown were sacked four times each in Sunday's 24-9 loss to the Steelers, and Kessler left the game with his second concussion in eight starts. In his four years at USC, he never had a concussion.

"Well, we lost a couple really good players, I think the best at their position,'' said Thomas. "But that was our strategy in the offseason. That's what we decided to do. You've got to lie in the bed that you've made, and I don't make the decisions on who comes and goes. So that's not something that I can concern myself with.

"For me, it's all about trying to do my job to the best of my ability and do everything I can to help our team win, and the guys that are making the personnel decisions, they're the experts on that, so they're the ones that have to make those decisions and look at those decisions when they're made."





In addition to linemen giving up sacks, running back Duke Johnson was overmatched trying to pick up the blitz, and tight end Randall Telfer gave up one of the sacks.

"It's the line getting on the guys we want to be on,'' Thomas said. "It's the running backs knowing who we're blocking and being on their right guys. It's the quarterbacks understanding how we're blocking, and readjusting the protection if it needs to be readjusted. We haven't been on the same page enough and of course it comes down to just winning the one-on-one matchups."

The Steelers overpowered the Browns largely with their inside linebackers Ryan Shazier and Lawrence Timmons, who combined on the play that resulted in Kessler's concussion. The Browns have also been hurt tremendously by the loss of premier left guard Joel Bitonio to foot surgery for the season. Rookie Spencer Drango is replacing him, and it's nowhere near the same.

"They've got four big guys that are good at rushing the passer, two outside 'backers, two inside guys and then their inside linebackers rush the passer a lot better than most inside guys,'' said Thomas. "When you've got five offensive linemen, you try to block their five best rushers, but with two inside guys that are really good like that you're always going to have sort of a mismatch a little bit when you have a running back blocking one of those guys and then trying to get the communication worked out a lot of times.

"Sometimes it's difficult to try to make sure that you are on the best matchups and to get the best possible guys blocking the best possible guys."

Is there anything that can be done to better protect QBs this year?

"We've just got to block better and we've got to find a better solution for keeping them upright,'' he said. "There's not any rocket science to it. It's trying to get the best hat on the best hat, winning the one-on-one matchup and trying to make sure that we're all on the same page with who's blocking who and where the quarterback's going to be."

It didn't help that the Browns couldn't run the ball and rushed only 13 times against 41 passes. Isaiah Crowell gained 10 yards on his 8 carries and was dropped for losses as many times as he went forward.

Jackson acknowledged how hard it is to watch his QBs gets creamed.

"It's tough. It is tough,'' he said. "I think we all know what we are doing and what we signed up for. It is football and you are going to get some of those hits. It is part of it. We will move forward."

He also offered no solution for how it can get better.

"I don't think it's from a lack of trying,'' he said. "Our guys are trying. I have to put them in better situations. It all starts and stems from the top. It starts with me so I have to put these guys in better situations. Today, I just thought as you looked out there as things were unfolding and happening, their team made more plays than we did.

"I don't want this group to go backwards any more than what we already have. I have to regroup with the guys and regroup with our coaches, and we have to keep pressing forward. We're not going to let the record and where we are dictate how we are feeling about this because the guys have done great.

"I will definitely plead to them, and I'm sure they will respond because that's the kind of group that they have been and that's who they are. They will walk back in here again on Wednesday when we get ready. We will get ready for New York, and they will come out here ready to play."

Well, not all of them.

I think this was a big issue yesterday. Kessler did not audible out of plays when it was apparent that we didn't have the right alignment to block all their guys. He didn't make hot reads or sight adjustments. The backs misread things. And of course, Erving made some terrible line calls.




This has been a point of contention for some of us for a long time. We were told that we "only won 3 games w/those guys, so how good can they be?" Well, now you have your answer.

Your new dawgtalkers name is La Macforna.

Stir that pot stir. Hope you take a shower afterward.

dep...will you look at that..Thomas and Pryor speaking out about our QBs getting killed.

This is the offensive line the analytics boys put together to protect our QBs...how did the Harvard boys do?


Browns set to change starting QB for 5th time after Cody Kessler sidelined by hit Joe Thomas says shouldn’t be part of game


By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal sports writer
link

Updated: November 21, 2016 - 08:27 AM

CLEVELAND: Browns rookie quarterback Cody Kessler has started just eight NFL games, and he has already suffered two concussions.
“You just never want that for anybody and especially a guy in his first year,” veteran quarterback Josh McCown said after Sunday’s 24-9 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers at FirstEnergy Stadium.
It’s a sobering fact about Kessler, and it’s why the Browns (0-11) are expected to change starting quarterbacks for the fifth time this season when they host the New York Giants (7-3) on Sunday. McCown will probably start because coach Hue Jackson spoke as if quarterback Robert Griffin III wouldn’t be ready in time as he attempts to return from injury.
Nine-time Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas said the play that sidelined Kessler shouldn’t be permitted in the NFL.
The Browns faced first-and-10 at their 25 with three seconds left in the third quarter when Kessler took a snap and was yanked down by inside linebacker Ryan Shazier a split-second after he threw a pass. As Shazier pulled Kessler, inside linebacker Lawrence Timmons launched and appeared to strike Kessler in the helmet with his right shoulder pad.
“I just kind of caught the end of the play when I was looking up on the replay and to me when you have a quarterback scrambling, running out of the pocket and they get targeted with a shoulder or a forearm to the head, I know in college football they throw you out for something like that,” Thomas said. “Hopefully the legislation in the NFL is trying to eliminate that type of play ’cause quarterbacks get hurt when they’re getting hit like that, and that’s something that you don’t want to see in the game.”
Kessler immediately left the game and was diagnosed with a concussion while McCown filled in. He suffered his first concussion of the season Oct. 23 against the Cincinnati Bengals and missed one game.
Timmons insisted he whiffed instead of drilling Kessler in the helmet. If true, Kessler could have suffered the concussion when his head hit the ground.
“I did miss him,’’ Timmons told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. “He saw me coming as [Shazier] was pulling him down. I went right over top of him.”
Thomas didn’t see it that way, though he stopped short of calling the play dirty.
“Certainly hitting a quarterback late after he’s thrown the ball when he’s going down with a shoulder or a forearm to the head is not something that you want to see in the game ’cause if we did that to Big Ben [Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger], they’d be pretty upset,” Thomas said.
Jackson said Kessler might be shut down for an extended period because he’s had two concussions in 29 days.
“It is a possibility,” Jackson conceded. “We will see. I am definitely going to talk to our medical staff because this is about a young man’s career and future, so we have to do the right thing.”
Griffin worked out on the field prior to Sunday’s game just like he did Nov. 10 before the Browns faced the Baltimore Ravens. He ran several sprints and threw passes. On Friday, Jackson said Griffin would return to practice this week after missing 10 games with a fractured coracoid bone in his left shoulder. Jackson also said Griffin needs to pass one more medical test to be cleared for contact.
But on Sunday, Jackson sounded as if he’ll turn to McCown against the Giants because he doesn’t expect Griffin to be ready.
“I don’t know much about Robert right now. We will just see where that is,” Jackson said. “But we will see where Cody is, and if not, obviously Josh is going to have to go out there and play, and he will go out there and I will expect Josh to play well and he will.”
The Steelers (5-5) had eight sacks and 14 quarterback hits, with Kessler and McCown taking four sacks apiece. McCown was fortunate to walk away from the game healthy after absorbing several shots. As he scrambled late in the fourth quarter, defensive end Stephon Tuitt, who had a team-high 2.5 sacks, decleated him with a blindside hit. McCown’s chinstrap unbuckled and left a small cut on his face.
The carnage made wide receiver Terrelle Pryor furious.
“[Our quarterbacks] can’t keep getting hit like that, and if I want to voice my opinion, I’m going to voice my opinion now because it’s going on too much,” Pryor said. “I don’t care if you’ve got to hold these dudes. Hold them and take the damn penalty and stop getting our quarterbacks hit. I hate that.
“I don’t think somebody would take $10 million to sit back there and take those hits. Come on. Some of those hits Josh took? After one of those, I came over, and his chinstrap was like this over his neck. He has a cut [on his face]. It’s bullcrap. We can’t keep doing this, and we can’t keep getting our guys hit. It’s as simple as that.”
Nate Ulrich can be reached at nulrich@thebeaconjournal.com.

"McCown will probably start because coach Hue Jackson spoke as if quarterback Robert Griffin III wouldn’t be ready in time as he attempts to return from injury."

Are you kidding me, RGIII is begging Hue to NOT return with that OL, they'll put out of the NFL

Browns claim OL Matt McCants; place OL John Greco on IR

Posted 18 minutes ago

Clevelandbrowns.com@BrownsFacebook




Veteran guard injured vs. Giants




The Cleveland Browns have claimed OL Matt McCants via waivers from Oakland. In addition, the team placed OL John Greco (foot) on injured reserve.


McCants is 6-5, 309-pounds and is officially in his fourth season out of Alabama-Birmingham. Originally selected by the Giants in the sixth round of the 2012 draft, he has appeared in 28 career games with three starts. He has spent the past four seasons with the Raiders. McCants is a native of Mobile, Ala.


Greco opened all 12 games this season with starts at right guard (10) and center (two). He didn’t miss an offensive snap until sustaining a foot injury yesterday in the third quarter against the Giants. Greco has appeared in 111 career games with 70 career starts. He joined the Browns via trade prior to the start of the 2011 season.

Well we're screwed.

Greco is very underrated by most posters. He's our second best offensive lineman. He will be missed.

Oakland probably has the second best OL in the NFL, so maybe this guy can play a little.

yup just read that too...man Greco is good imo...lots of shotgun plays ahead