DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns trade for Patriots linebacker Jamie Collins

I think the trade was all about $$$$$$$$. Collins is due a pretty big pay day and Bill finds cheaper players who fit his system, he currently has only 2 players earning over $10 mill a year on average and they are Brady ($20 mill a year) and LT Solder ($10 mill a year). The Pats are just a little more then $11 mill under the cap and they have 14 players who will be Free Agents at the end of the year and 8 of those players are starters.

Had nothing to do with money ... there the odds on favorites to reperesent the AFC in the SB ... they have a LEGITE SHOT at winning it ...

U don't make MONEY MOVES for next year when your in that position ..

Plus .. they could have TAGGED HIM and GOTTEN A BETTER PICK GOING THAT ROUTE ..

This was clearly Bill having enough of SOMEONE not doing there job and putting himself above the team ...

And i LOVE THE TRADE FOR US ...

Upside vs downside of this trade is INCREDIBLY in the upside column ...

There's really VERY VERY LITTLE downside ...

Sorry but I disagree.



You do if you have a younger, cheaper player that you like a lot. (Elandon Roberts)



They would have to franchise tag him and while Collins is a good player I don't see anyone giving up 2 #1 picks for him.

He's at the end of his rookie deal, why isn't he an RFA?

j/c

Mumbles is not completely infallible. Remember:

He jettisoned Chandler Jones for Jonathan Cooper. Jones is headed to the Pro Bowl and Cooper is now a Brown.

This is not the typical bad-deal-with-Mumbles where we get an aging Willie McG type to collect his last $$$ contract here and then never play another down in the NFL after WE were done paying him.

This is a just-turned 27 year old STUD. He may end up being a turd, but this is exactly the type of big-name, big-money risk/guy we should go after.

Beli wanted to get some of his younger guys more playing time to see how he needs to address the position going forward. Collins was not thrilled with receiving less playing time during a contract year.

I imagine there has been some interesting conversations between the two and it resutled in (you arent happy here on a Super Bowl contender, fine see how happy you are on a winless team in Cleveland).

This was a message to the player and to the team kind of trade. Still great news for us.

I pray to god u just didn't know this .. hopefully your not LEAVING KEY PARTS OUT witch to me is LYING ....

They also got a 2nd round pick ....

OOOOOPS ....

Because there is no such thing for a player with a 4 or 5 year rookie deal.

The only RFA are rookies who signed contracts that were 3 years or less.

Thanks, didn't kow that.

You're welcome.

IIRC, prior to the current CBA, the 5th season could be a restricted season. That was one of the changes when the newest CBA was approved.

I wasn't referencing the value of the trade as much as the player evaluations in the trade. However, in regards to the value of that trade, Mumbles really needs that 2nd Rd Pick (likely a late-ish pick in that round) to stud out as that player should be compared against a Pro Bowl player. Otherwise, the value of that trade is quite poor. Also, had he not gotten Cooper in the deal, would he have picked up another valuable "asset" instead of the player? I would think so. So he missed out on that particular "asset".

If WE were the team making that trade...and WE quickly cut the player that came with the trade...we'd have an endless thread about the FO and how they haven't got a clue while also forgetting the potential of the pending draft pick. (Just like we always do...and most recently this past draft.)

Enough about my opinion of the value of that trade. The world view I was addressing is this one:

A player traded BY Mumbles quickly went on to the Pro Bowl. But...but...but...players he trades are always "done" after leaving his Kingdom. Also, a player traded TO Mumbles quickly was waived. But...but...but players he picks up are always "resurrected" in his Kingdom.

Collins is young and growing...our other Patriots pickups heretofore have been the opposite of young and growing. This easily appears to be different than our past dealings with Mumbles.

U put out BAD INFO ..

Not gonna waste my time explaining the rest ... your obviously still peed off one of the 3 GREATEST HC'S in the history of the NFL cut Bernie and left the Browns ..

There is NO COMPARISION on the why's in the Jones and Collins trades ... NONE ...

U put out more BS in this last post ... again ... NO COMPARISION between trading guys that Bill thinks are done and why Jones was traded ..

At the end of the day .. Bill did not want a FREE LANCING "ME" player on his SB contender ..

Unless your telling me Bill valued a 3rd or a 4th round pick MORE than giving him the BEST SHOT to win the SB THIS YEAR .... *LOL* ... cause mumbles is STUPID and HATES WINNING ...

We got a GIFT ... and one of the reasons we were the recieptints is because mumbles knows this trade will not come back to bite him in rather ass for at least 3 years ..

WE GOT A GIFT CAUSE WE SUCK!!!

Sometimes the TRUTH HURTS .. the fact it hurts doesn't make it any less TRUE!

And I think it was a GREAT TRADE FOR US ..

Applaud the FO for not turning down the GIFT!!!

Are you having a conversation with an imaginary friend? Did I say anything about Mumbles as a Head Coach or Bernie?

Mumbles is a great HC...I wish he coached my favorite team(s)...I'm simply saying that he is not infallible. I think this was a great trade for the Browns. I also think Mumbles let go of a darn good player because he's an egomaniac - but he makes it work - and not every move he makes is perfect. That said, I think NE wins the Super Bowl this year anyway.

This is the kind of trade/move I hope becomes the trademark of our FO. It's quite different than "snaring" Willie McGinest or David Bowens at the absolute end of their careers.

Sidenote: I'll give 50 dollars to anyone who can steal Diam's Caps Lock key.

There u go ... ...

I can get JIGGY with that ...

*LOL* .... if you'll send me $50 American ... I PROMISE I'LL NEVER USE IT AGAIN EXCEPT TO SAY L OR LOL OR SOME VERSION OF THAT ...

If your JIGGY with THAT .. i'll PM u MY e-Mail ADDY so u can paypal me the money or send U my address so u can send the check ...

LET ME KNOW!!!!!!

How much if i NEVER DO ...... THAT AGAIN??????

Ray Horton on Jamie Collins: 'We're going to ask a lot of him'

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
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on November 04, 2016 at 6:12 PM, updated November 04, 2016 at 6:13 PM

BEREA, Ohio - Jamie Collins has brought his New England frame of mind to Cleveland, and Ray Horton can't wait to see him play Sunday against the Cowboys.


"Jamie is very impressive in his football IQ,'' said Horton. "I'd assume the hardest transition for a player like that is coming in and at New England — they were a hybrid 3-4/4-3 depending on what game they were playing — so he knows what we play and the position, but to come in the first day and learn a new language and to be able to flip it in his mind and look very smooth in doing it was very impressive.''


Collins, acquired Tuesday in a trade with the Patriots for a third-round compensatory pick, will likely start Sunday's game and play a majority of the snaps.

"Very athletic, very smart, dynamic,'' said Horton. "It appears to be an easy transition for him. We're going to ask a lot of him and obviously see what he can handle, but so far, I have been really impressed with his smarts and his savvy and athleticism on the field and really off the field, too, of just learning something and not hesitating to translate it in his mind."


Browns associate head coach Pep Hamilton, who's prepared for Collins a lot over the previous three years when he was with the Colts, told his offense before the Oct. 9th matchup against New England "that he was one of the most underrated defensive players in the National Football League. He's a guy that can change a game as a defensive player, and those guys are rare.


"He can play on all three levels of the defense. He can rush the passer, he can cover your backs out of the backfield and of course, he can fit in there and stop the run. If you detach a tight end, even some receivers, he can cover those guys out in space. With all that being said, he has bad intentions when he gets to the ball carrier. He has had a lot of success against the teams that unfortunately I was a part of.''

Horton acknowledged that Collins, a 2015 Pro Bowler, will move around to different spots. He's listed at outside in the depth chart, but could play inside in the nickel. In New England, they started taking him off the field on running downs and playing a rookie instead.


"He will play all over for us,'' said Horton. "He's a joy to watch move around on the football field. He gives you the ability to do a couple things and put different people on the field, different packages because you have to account for him to be different places. I wouldn't say he's necessarily just going to be just an inside guy for us."


Horton said Collins' impact will be felt on more than the stat sheet.


"Some of it shows up on the practice field of 'this is how you prepare, this is how you play,'' he said. "Obviously, when you come from a Pro Bowl and from a known program, guys look and go, 'Oh, OK, well let me see how he does things.'''


He said Collins' ability has been immediately evident this week. He joins a defense that includes eight rookies and five second-year players among the 24. He's one of only to Pro Bowlers, including Haden.


"You can't fool players,'' said Horton. "Players know talent when they see it. They see it across the field, they see it on the film and then now they see it in the huddle with him. Sure, we are going to embrace him because we are trying to get better players, more talented players and put a better product on the field. This is a great step in that direction."


Haden, who appreciates other Pro Bowl talent, agreed.


"You can tell ballplayers as soon as they get out there,'' said Haden. "You can tell just his physicality and understanding the game and just the way that he plays, the way that he knows football, we got a whole lot better with him.''


Haden added, "the dude's just running around, he's just punching balls out left and right. It helps us out a lot and it shows that the season isn't over for us.''


Haden acknowledged that's it's a big change going from a Super Bowl contender to a winless team.


"(But) I think he kind of gets that we don't feel like an 0-8 team,'' said Haden. "He understands that we're not just walking about moping, waiting for the next game. We're excited, we're ready to go out there and play Dallas.''


Horton said Collins "understands the opportunity that he has in front of him here to be a huge difference maker, where at someplace else, you may be one of the guys. I think he's excited. I think he's genuine. He's been fantastic here. He really has been."


That's a boost for the Browns, what with the 6-1 Cowboys and their scary-good offensive line up Sunday.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...ollins_we.html

Yeah, but if you call Belichick "Mumbles" enough, it proves he is ignorant and that the Browns took advantage of him.

Another outstanding football post...your ability to misunderstand and misinterpret is truly legendary.

Here is a strange story about Collins:

this story makes no sense. How in the world does a manicure affect your practice? are they saying that he wore the bags during practice? there are a number of reasons to dip your hands in wax. I had to do it during therapy for damaged nerves in my fingers. sounds like a silly story to me.

Was it a practice or a walk through? The article says both in different spots.

It does seem pretty strange to me, but I vaguely remember an article about Hue being a mani/pedi fan, too.

Those are the types of stories that are "leaked" to media more often now.
The intent of the story is clearly to cast a player in a negative light for whatever reason.

Collins is a physical freak and was a ultra productive probowl caliber player. The rest of that stuff doesnt matter to me.

Browns' Jamie Collins: 'If the money is right, I could stay here'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on December 30, 2016 at 2:48 PM, updated December 30, 2016 at 4:21 PM

BEREA, Ohio - Browns linebacker Jamie Collins doesn't like losing, but $10 million a year would make it a lot easier to take.

That would be the going the rate for Collins if he hits the market March 9, according to spotrac.com.

"(Losing is a deterrent) but at the same time, money comes into play around that time,'' Collins said Friday. "If the money is right then I could stay here. Obviously I'm not going to turn it down.''

Asked if money is his top priority, he said, "No, it's the not the top priority.''

What is?

"I mean, everybody, the people that have been here, my family, me, I could go on and on about this,'' he said.

Collins, a 2015 Pro Bowler, also likes a lot of his teammates, including up-and-coming players such as linebacker Chris Kirksey and running back Duke Johnson, who playfully ducked in on Collins' interview.

"We're real close, man,'' Collins said of his teammates in general. "That's the thing with me. I get real tight with people. If I like you, then I like you, and we'll go a long way. If not, then it's dead. I like a lot of guys in here.''

Despite coming from the Super Bowl-contending Patriots, who traded him for a 2017 compensatory pick at the end of the third round, Collins would have no qualms about remaining with a rebuilding team.

"It's been pretty good,'' he said. "I have zero complaints. Obviously the win-loss column, but you can't control everything. You've just got to use it and take advantage of the downfalls you get (and use them) as stepping stones. I have no doubt about me staying here if that was the case. I would like to be here. But it's not just me wanting to be here."

He sees good things ahead for a defense that has some good young players in Danny Shelton and Emmanuel Ogbah.

A man of few words in his infrequent interviews, he's not worried about being franchised, which would net him about $16 million next season.

"It depends on what happens,'' he said. "I don't know what's going to happen. It is what it is.''

Spotrac.com estimates Collins' market value at about five years, $51,380,813, or an average of about $10.2 million a year. It's worth it, if he can be the focal point that defensive coordinator Ray Horton envisions.

"Jamie's a former quarterback,'' Horton said. "He thinks like that. He sees the whole field. He understands what he's looking at. He understands splits. He understands plays, and he's a guy that loves football. I think he's opening up (to his teammates), meaning, 'OK, I understand the guy's dynamic and who I am and what they are,' and he is very encouraging out on the field.

"As you guys watch practice, he's always going after the ball. He does this in the game. He gives us a chance to do a lot of different things. Obviously, the more pieces we get, the more things we will do with him and move him around and be the centerpiece of a defense that is going to be very dynamic because he allows you to do some things that are not traditional in defense. I'm really excited about what he can do."

Adapting to a new defense midseason, Collins has recorded 59 tackles, two sacks and one forced fumble in his seven starts with the Browns. Absent are some of the game-changing impact plays, but Horton believes they'll come. He cited one of his former players, former Pittsburgh safety Troy Polamalu, who was surrounded by stars.

"I don't think you can force plays,'' said Horton. "Jamie makes the plays that come to him. Some of that is a factor of how much pressure we get on the quarterback and what he does, but Jamie is immensely talented and when you get more bodies around, more good bodies and more athletic bodies - Troy was playing with a lot of Pro Bowl players and potential Hall of Fame players."

Collins has won over Hue Jackson, who's stated several times he wants him back.

"He's been really good,'' said Jackson. "He's a dependable player. He's accountable. He's always there. We've asked a lot of him. We've played him in a couple different spots. He's taken all of that on and hasn't blinked.

". . . I have a lot of respect for him. Hopefully, as I said earlier, we can keep him around here."

Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden is all for wrapping up Collins long-term.

"You can tell if a guy's got it, if he doesn't,'' said Haden. "You can tell if he understands, you can tell if he plays the way that you can be able to be effective in the league, using your hands, being very, very physical, dominant, understanding stuff. And he does all of that. You could tell when he came out there he's one of the best players on our defense as soon as he steps out on the field.

"You could tell that by just the way he moves, the way he understands football, the way he plays so physical and is able to shed blocks and get people off of him. It's just something that we definitely, definitely need on our defense. If we want to be a dominant defense, we have to have players like him that can beat the man in front of him and that can win their one-on-ones way more than they're going to lose.''

And if the money's right, they just might be able to do it.

This is a contract that's more important to me than Pryor's.

The Browns have some decent talent that they either pay or let walk. I will be watching w/interest to see if their walk their talk or if their talk is cheap.

Pay Collins long term.

Use the tag on Pryor.

Collins will also be a dissapointment wherever he ends up ...

ME ME ME .... thats why Bellicheck got rid of him ... Good Luck winning with those types of guys ...

This guy wants way way way more money than he's worth ... problem is ... some dumb ass team will pay it .. hope it ain't us ...

Flame away boys .. *LOL* ..

j/c:

I see a lot of talk about overpaying for guys and being in cap hell on this board. I think people still believe that this is the early 2000s and that the salary cap is really harming some teams. That isn't so in 2016-2017. Even teams who are close to the cap limit can be out of trouble in no time.

Stop living in the past and let's keep our better players.

Not meant to criticize anyone or their post, just making a point.

Look at Vers' post.
Now looks at Diam's 2 posts later.

Whether we sign Collins or not, there is no way that the FO can win with this board.
As a result, some posters will jump in to defend the move.
It's not agenda, it's differences of opinion on the move.

The point I want to make? Let's quit with the whole poster has an agenda business. The only agenda anyone has is that they want the Browns to become winners. Mac spends a lot of time criticizing the FO. He doesn't have an agenda, just an opinion. Those who defend the FO don't have an agenda, just a differing opinion. Too often the term agenda gets thrown around to try to discredit a posters opinion and that grinds discussion to a halt.

Mac makes some good points about the front office. When people cannot refute them they throw around the term agenda as their only recourse. When others comeback that he may be premature in his conclusions, agenda gets thrown at them.

I would like (though I know I will never get) a moratorium on the use of the word agenda.

Not if they keep RG3, he doesn't throw to Pryor enough; the two don't seem on the same page.

So that is your agenda?

My agenda is to optimize my enjoyment reading Dawgtalkers.net

That's not an agenda. It's a goal, or a hope.
Agenda doesn't even mean what some people think it means.

It might be a word that has been bastardized.

That is something that has become quite apparent and I don't understand why. On the surface, itt looks like there skill sets should match up quite nicely.

Then I have no agenda

But you are right. That word doesn't mean what most of us think it means.

My agenda is to increase my use of purple.

Fixed.