We gave up a compensatory third round pick.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/793127510758293504

Collins is a free agent after the season, so we'll have to re-sign him. He was second team All-Pro last season.

Yea, just read that interesting

Is he about to get suspended or something? This seems like an awfully good deal for the Browns.

Guess this is where some of our cap will go

link

Collins, 27, is a versatile and talented linebacker who moved around and played several positions in the New England defense. He was scheduled to become a free agent in the offseason and it will likely be a top priority for the Browns to extend the newly added linebacker.

What's the catch?

The NFL’s best outside linebackers, No. 1: Jamie Collins

Quite simply, Collins is one of the most versatile front-seven defenders in football. To wit: The NFL Network’s Willie McGinest (slight homer alert here) recently named Collins one of the game’s top 3–4 linebackers, even though the Patriots don’t really play a 3–4. And he’s on this list, despite the Patriots not truly being a 4–3 team either. Bill Belichick’s defense spends most of its time—upwards of 75%—in two-linebacker, nickel looks. Collins’s ability to play just about anywhere, though, is a key both to that 4–2 setup and New England’s ability to match up with opposing offenses. The 2013 second-round pick finished last season with 89 tackles, six pass breakups, 5.5 sacks, five forced fumbles and an interception. He also played 100% of the Patriots’ snaps, save for the games he missed due to a viral illness. The Patriots shipped out Chandler Jones this off-season, in theory, to help them lock up Collins long-term. He’s worth the investment.

Link

Collins is a VERY good LB. Why the Pats would trade him mid-season is a little odd.

3rd rounder is a good pick but he's a young LB who is just entering his peak. Granted, he'll be looking for top dollar in FA so maybe the Pats already figured they wouldnt be able to afford him and wanted to get a return.

So who gets bumped to the bench?

Scratch that...I thought Collins played inside but guess he plays out. Fills the spot opposite Ogbah.

Cam Johnson?

In our base set, which we are in very rarely, Joe Scobert. In sub packages, Davis or Kirksey.

8-8

Very good LB.. Glad we got him.

Hope we can re-sign to a long term deal.

Hope he can handle losing.

_________________________

I fear that in the end we just spent a late 3rd rounder to rent him for 8 games..

Jesus, this is getting worse.

Collins is a FA after this season, so the Browns paid a 3rd and will overpay him, so he can go into Kruger-mode. Browns paid a high price just to be the first to negotiate with him, lol.

The Browns are getting dumber by the minute. Instead of paying Sheard and keep the pick, they do this, because of course the grass is always greener.

This team needs leaders, not mercenaries.Who was the last Pats player Belly let go that did anything close elsewhere?

Didn't like Collins out of college, all athleticism, no football smarts, which equates to the type of guy that plays to get a contract and then goes through the motions.

And comp 3rd? I thought comp picks can't be traded?

huge move for the browns. collins is one of the best defenders in the NFL. Gonna cost us to keep him.

What's the franchise tag number for OLB's?

The rule changed this year, after the 2016 draft.

I'm seeing ~15ish

It's just linebackers, there is no inside/outside. But for 2016 it was $14,129,000.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/here-are-the-2016-nfl-franchise-tag-numbers-for-every-position/

Collins..
Ogbah...
Nassib..



Garrett...

Collins is a massive upgrade to Damario Davis. Just massive.

Use the Cap Space and get a guy who you wouldnt normally have a shot at.

Just ignore Django. We could trade for Aaron Rodgers and he'd bitch about adding his contract. This is a solid deal.

WOW,, what's the catch? Seriously, is it because Belichick knows the kid is going to want a huge payday? Is it that Belichick said to the kid, hey, I'm sending you to Cleveland, I get a pick and then we'll work out a deal next year long term with you LOL

With Belichick inbvolved, I'm sorry, but I can't help but wonder

Sheard was not re-signed by Farmer.



Chandler Jones.

Welp the Browns have hooked me again.

From what I've heard if Collins leaves Cleveland end of the season, the Pats send the 3rd round pick back. Once again, Django just taking trash because he can.

Say what now?

Here's the stickler- Collins wants Von Miller type of money.

So we have Ogbah, Kirksey, Davis, Collins as our starting LB corp.

now it looks actually pretty decent.

but that secondary though.....

Create a pass rush, and the secondary will look a lot better.

Great. Lots of people want stuff they will not get. If he wants Von Miller money and is unwilling to negotiate, then he is franchised and has to play his best in 2017 to earn a huge contract.

Patriots trade Jamie Collins to Browns - NFL.com
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000731353/article/patriots-trade-jamie-collins-to-browns

This says that it is a conditional pick.

Man, this sounds better as more info comes out.

I actually bitch about the player most. He's just the type of guy dumb teams give away high priced contracts to. Collins is a mix of Kirksey and Mingo.

Is he an upgrade? Umh yeah. Not that hard considering the trash we run out at OLB. With this trade our FO geniuses at least admit their draft failure, investing so many high picks in pass rushers with little effect.

And you know what? Collins will probably play lights out the rest of this season because he can already smell the green. This would be so Browns if Collins helps them win enough games to not pick first. This org is so freaking stupid, unbeliavable.

Of course the minions like you on this board will spin this into FO greatness. Meanwhile the rest of the league can't stop laughing about an 0-8 team trading for an oh so great player from a contending team at the trade deadline.

If you think our geniuses, the same guys that spent a high pick on Ogbah, are smarter than Belly and 28 other FO that didn't pony up for 8 games of Collins, well, whatever floats your 0-8 boat I guess.

It's probably conditional because we don't actually own the pick yet. There was similar language in the Eagles trade.

Also, I have to wonder about something ..... some on this board are thinking that he plays inside in place of Davis.

I'm thinking, that given all of the trouble we have had setting the edge on defense. that he may play OLB.

Nassib and Ogbah have both played fairly well, but the jury is still out on them as they are rookies.

Django...put down the haterade and actually look at what we got here.

All-pro quality linebacker that immediately upgrades our defence and gives a defensive cornerstone to build around that is just entering the best years of his career.

Are we gonna have to pay the man? Absolutely. But you pay for quality....and the guy is definitely quality.

And if for some reason we can't negotiate with him (which I guarantee we already have some kind of base worked out), the BROWNS will get a new compensatory pick back if he moves on.

Flat out stellar move by the FO.

When we have four linebackers on the field, which doesn't happen all that often, he will play outside. When we have sub packages on the field, which is most of the time, he will play instead of Kirksey or Davis (as Collins is good in coverage). At least that's the way I see it playing out. Collins may not play much right away because he is new.

None of what you are saying is rational.

We got a good player, so good that he might catapult us to three or four wins just because we got him.

Also, he's not acutally that good of a player, so we shouldn't have traded for him.

Furthermore, he might be expensive because the bad player is going to play so well that will have to pay him.

He can't make up his mind. Does he want talent? Does he want to tank?

Would you really want the #1 pick in this draft? (Assuming you don't want Garrett out of TAMU)

Statement from Sashi Brown and Hue Jackson:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...1a-288dfbfcefb2

If you are a bad team, you always want the first overall pick.

#1 - You get to pick whoever you want.

#2 - Some team might try and trade some crazy amount of picks to get the player they want without obstruction.

Which draft failures do you speak of?

Great Deal ... We get a very good LB and if he decides to not sign (Which he will. his agent said he wasn't upset about going to Cleveland because he just wants to play where he is wanted) we will retain the conditional pick ... its a win win Good move FO

I wish you are right, but I think you're looking at this through rose coloured glasses, as many in here are right now. Just speak out loud the parameters of this deal for a moment. The 7-1 Pats trade away an "All-Pro" for nothing and the only taker were the 0-8 Browns. Where is the mistake? If he were an All-Pro caliber, an 7-1 team wouldn't trash him out the door, even knowing he would leave. So either talent level or character (probably both deducting from prior Belly moves) are highly questionable.

Also, if all it took was a hefty payday. Why not give it to him in FA? We just paid a 3rd to hold him hostage. The Browns version of "locking up" a player, lol.

Really Django how do you know no other teams were involved?

He flat lined. Everybody clear, charge to 200 ZAP

You Ok Pastor?

Pats have a lot of guys to lockup, like Hightower.

Not to worry Bill has Mingo to take the place of Collins

Never trust wild Bill.

Played part time against the Bengals, played limited snaps last week.....

Trading a star when you are far and away the best team in your conference. Something doesn't add up. I would not be surprised whatsoever if he fails his physical or comes here and immediately goes on IR.


Seems too good to be true, so it probably is.


On paper looks great, 3rd round comp (essentially a 4th) and if he does leave you get probably a 3rd round comp in return for taking a chance on a pro bowl player.

lol Yes I don't know what happened I think I blacked out when I heard we made a great trade

This is a great trade......if we can get him re-signed. Might have to franchise tag him if a deal can't be reached by the time FA starts.

So its accentually a 4th round pick.

If they can resign him this will be a great trade. Im thinking that a new contract is forth coming. We can afford him.

I would like to see him on the weakside and move Ogbah over to the strongside and move Shobert to the bench.

Also I think that this was a cap move for the Patriots in the long run.

Now if we can find/trade two safties.

Eating my crow pie. I really thought IC would have a breakout season @ SS.

I will hang onto the paddles for our 2019 super bowl victory just in case buddy

I don't think they wanted to pay him, and he would likely leave anyway. This way they get a draft pick before he walks. If we keep him, we'll pay big money for him. Hopefully he stays healthy and plays at a high level. If he does, it's a good trade.

/fôrTH/ /round/ /pik/

We can clear about $18m in cap space by cutting Tramon, RG3, and Demario this offseason. Probably upwards of $70m in cap this offseason.

I thought he played ILB.

Really like Jamie Collins but we better be able to sign him or we're going to look like idiots. Linebacker. On a related note, LB franchise tag in 2016 was $14MM, transition $11M. What compensatory pick would we get if he walks?

Youd get a lot if he was either.

Collins plays nickle LB and olb in base defense. He has good pass rushing skills but is elite at coverage. A true playmaker.

Serious! I know right!! How could someone complain about this?

Interestingly enough, if he walks and gets $15 mil a year from someone else, we'd most likely get a 3rd round comp pick.

I keep scratching my head and wondering what the catch is on this one. I can't find anything.

Do I really need to spell it out for you? I'll tickle your brain:

1. How many halftime leads did the Browns have against beatable, meh teams?

2. How many could they have won with anything resembling a pass rush?

3. Is Collins motivated to play to his best these last 8 games?

4. Is he better than what we have playing at his best?

5. Once he gets that 4y multi millions guaranteed contract through his 31y/season, do you think his motivation is as high? Think Kruger, and so many others, and he doesn't come close to Kruger's overall makeup.

So Collins will probably play his best as a Brown in a 0-8 season, potentially leading to 1-2 more wins vs. middling teams because upgrading from pass rush nothing doesn't need All-Pro ability, especially not long term.

That's my rationale. But of course yours (GREATNESS!) is probably the more accurate assessment considering what we know, lol

I think the Patriots are also high on Elandon Roberts.

According to this, he at one point asked for "Von Miller money"

Where do you see 2 wins? Seriously, I want to know.

Not saying there weren't, but none willing to pay more than a very late 3rd, basically a 4th rd pick for allegedly an "All-Pro" is telling, no?

Awesome. Thanks for the clarification.

jc

Another question the apologists should try to spin-dance for my amusement:

If you're cool to spend a 3rd AND lots of money for a player in order to upgrade your roster, then why didn't they do it last FA, saving the pick?

Well, because that's what apologists do. Probably a lot of the same guys that were on board with the "re-built through the draft, no expensive FA" philosophy, now applaud this trade which makes even LESS sense considering the timing. Riddle me this, please.

Too diacritical, CalD.

Still laughing . . . .

Btw, here's my answer: they are DESPERATE and have thrown their plan out the window, because it's not yielding results and there's a lot of un-happiness and finger-pointing in the building.

But no, they did it because they're smart and great, lol

So glass almost all the way empty then, gotcha.

You can't not take good players because you are afraid they will lose their motivation after they get paid.. and I haven't heard a single person compare Collins to Kruger..

However, on one hand we have our FO evaluating this players worth... on the other end we have Bill Belichick evaluating this players worth... until we prove otherwise, advantage Patriots.

Quick ! Get this man a Burger!

He wasnt happy in New England as they were cuttin back on his playing time and not very eager to negotiate a new deal. This was Belli eliminating a problem before it became one.

he and Hue will get along well and he gives us a really good backer. We have the cash to give him a deal before season is over if he is earning it. We are really becoming pretty much a true 4-3 team with occasionally throing in some 3-4. hell we play more 4-2-5 than 3-4-4.

This was a good move for both teams.

Look Django, don't want to argue you could be right but this FO hasn't been in place long enough to judge one way or the other I mean 12 draft picks are on the roster now and that was their 1st draft and I know we aren't very good now but some of those picks may turn out to very good players, so let's give them a little time before we trash them ... Just Sayin'

Thanks for the highlights.... I can see he clearly reminds me of Mingo just like someone said!

I want the Browns to get better - and I am happy with the trade. Like others I think you have to be on your guard when it comes to Belichick - but I hope that it was purely a $$$ issue. And if we end up overpaying to keep him, for an elite talent, I have no problem.

I keep seeing people discussing it as a compensatory 3rd....That can not be correct...yes this year you can trade comp picks...BUT they have not been awarded at this time.

HACK

fantastic deal for us. I like it. Ogbah, Collins, Kirksey, Davis. that just looks good to me. then we have Nassib, Meder, and Shelton...now that's a front seven I can live with...3 more DB's and I'll be happy.

It's a conditional pick. When the compensatory picks are awarded the Patriots get the actual pick.

One major problem on our defense has been the inability to set an edge, allowing big runs to break outside.

I think that Collins should be able to help with this.

I'll take Collins for one of the many picks we have next year and we can lock him up for an additional year if we like his work.

Some of Collins being unmotivated in NE being tossed around on the internet, FYI.

Simple....this gives us exclusive bargaining rights for the rest of the year as well as the option to use the franchise tag. Try to get him in FA and we have a load of other competition.

Add to this that this sends a positive message to the locker room that we're not trying to set the team up to fail this year and will look to add talent when we can.

I think you're just pissed that the Browns look to have done something awesome. Sorry the FO made a good move. Deal with it.

Or go root for Buffalo.

So far the only reason I see why the patriots got rid of him is because he wanted to get paid.

Is he worth von miller money? No, but he's definitely worth a nice contract.

We got a player entering his prime for a 3rd rounder.

We have another nicely developing OLB in ogbah. Kirksey, just in case people are wondering, is 5th in the NFL in tackles. And Demario Davis is flashing.

Just my opinion but this is a great trade. It also means if we sign him in the offseason, it's one less spot we have to worry about trying to find a starter during the FA/draft period.

So we spent a 3rd rounder on a player we already know is good and young, instead of drafting a guy who MIGHT be good with our 3rd pick?

Sounds good to me.

Lots of it by our old friend Michael Lombardi (who I like). Lombardi is basically saying that Collins was made an example of because the defense has been bad and Collins was freelancing too much.

Detroit sent Kyle Van Noy LB to the Pats last week...looks they replaced him before trading him...Could be just a money thing.

New England traded one of its best players due to stalled contract talks.

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/10/31/13478...-collins-browns

Looks to me like a very solid player for a third... As long as we extend him this is a no brainer IMHO.

Yeah, I saw that interview on Colin Coherd. Maybe stuff is trickling in from other outlets as a result of his comments.

So, trying to think about this deal a little more, the worst case scenario is that we get a compensatory pick back, perhaps a few slots away that we just gave NE. Maybe early rights to negotiate a deal is worth that to the Browns FO? I don't know.

Where the Browns are advantageous to someone like Collins, who is looking for a big deal, is that we are loaded in cap space this offseason. If I am truly looking to sign him long term, I'd consider front-loading as much of that in the first few years so there is money available if draft picks come to fruition.

I'm excited to see him in a Browns uniform and hopes this works out. If not, then NE is getting back at us for trading them Mingo.

I also think another factor is NE having to make difficult choices because they have guys they like more and want to re-sign....Like Hightower, Vollmer, Sheard, Blount. I cannot wait to be in a posiiton where we have to make these tough choices financially because we've got a solid corp.....

Ian Rapoport was just Nfl network and said the Browns see Collins as a long term answer to the position. So sounds like they want him for long term. sounds good to me.

Took a stroll to the NE Message Board.

Entertaining.

I looked at well....Most people seem to be pissed.

Difference between the old browns and new... Hue Jackson.. I think we can get Jamie to stay.

I don't think this is all surprising. The questions is whether they can get a deal done.

Well, ok. Reading comprehension fail. I was talking signing some OTHER FA before the season. Everybody loved the "build through the draft" mantra, now it's cool to throw out picks and big bucks. They're great either way.

I think this is a more than fair comment regarding free agency and the draft, and for the record, I am someone who is all about building through the draft. Yet I'm a tad conflicted because I do like this trade. I guess it's because I always thought Collins would be someone NE would keep as a result of drafting well. Normally, 27 year old All-Pros don't make it to the FA market.

8-8

we have 12 rooks on the 53....we have 13 more picks next year...if 8 of those picks makes the roster then we have 20 rooks and 1st year players. darn near half the roster...sounds like building to me.

Yes, I did miss that. My mistake.

My answer would be fairly simple. Let's look back at who was available at LB

1. Bruce Irvin- Good player but I don't think anyone would call him elite.
2. Danny Trevathan- Good ILB..probably better than Demario Davis but not by leaps and bounds.
3. Derrick Johnson- Older and KC had inside track to make him stay.

Those are the big ones I recall.

But why else? Well, we drafted a few guys at LB...we obviously wanted to see what they could do. Ogbah is coming on while Schobert has been a disappointment. Is it possible that if Schobert was playing better that we don't make this move? Absolutely....but he's not.

You can probably cheer here because you get to yell "wasted draft pick". Go ahead...get it out of your system. Done? OK.

But why else? Frankly, the team was evaluating where they were at. Brand new coaches, brand new plan. Why make big moves when you're not ready to? They weren't ready...so they didn't.

FINALLY, just because you acquire someone doesn;t mean you've abandoned the idea of building through the draft. This is one move...not a Butch Davis'esque FA spending spree The FO traded away A LATE THIRD ROUNDER for an elite LB. How is that not a smart move???

How about you stop being the Browns fan equivalent of a streetside preacher proclaiming everything to be evil and worthy of damnation and just acknowledge when this team has done something good....

My favorite thing I've seen on Pats message boards is a theory that Mingo will be able to step right up and fill the void left by Collins.

Riiiiiiiiight.

I really don't care about the pick. They would have probably wasted it on another Schobert or R.Louis with shiny stats and no tape. It's not what irks me about this trade.

My problem is the type of player they reward. Collins is massively overrated and greedy believing his own hype. You will be ecstatic this season, as he will automatically look like a world beater comped to Schobert. Then he gets the $$ and then you'll wait for an impact. We bought high and managed to waste a pick on top of it to make clear to anyone how stupid we are. And not only that, it also sends a bad message.

They had the most cap room around, but fed us the "build through the draft" plan. Well, ok, they want to rebuild. As expected, they lose. But now, at 0-8, they go out and not only pony up the $$, but waste a pick on top and PR BS us with "we look to impove any way we can". Who believes this BS? Weren't there dozens of players last FA that would have helped us? Now they recognize there is a talent problem on the roster? What does that tell you about their evaluation skills?

You can spin this any way you want, but this trade is an admission that at least a part of their plan has already failed to the point that the coaching probably was close to throw in the towel (and Hue actually DID). These guys actually believed they would win a little with their approach, but they didn't and this lead to this stupid panic move.

Well, be prepared. They have very similar skill sets. In fact, going into the draft Collins was considered a "lesser" version of Mingo for those who missed out on him. Just saying.

Only problem with is, one has proven it on the field. And one hasn't.

Well done on ignoring any and all points made previously. But whichever...nothing is going to sway you in your non-stop griping about all things.

I think you couldn't be more wrong but time will tell. If we succeed in signing Collins long term and he flops, I'll be the first to admit a poor choice.

But I don't think it will turn out that way. Collins is a baller and I think his performance will even make it hard for you to deny it. I'm sure you'll still find a way...but it'll be difficult.

it is entertaining lol. lots of pissed fans over there.they already have a couple of ours so it's nice to get one of theirs.

Let me reply by saying... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Ahem...now that that's done...Mingo is a lesser version of Collins the way I am a lesser version of Collins. IE...not even in the same ballpark.

And I can even say that as someone who was initially high on Mingo.

I don't know enough about the dude to comment ... can't wait to see him play .. he sounds like a HUGE UPGRADE to our PASS RUSH ...

I'm not going to question Bill as to why he did this .. he knows what he's doing ... looks like a WIN/WIN to me .. seriously .. WHATS OUR DOWNSIDE HERE? ..

What i wonder is why one of the better teams that have a shot at winning this year didn't trade for him for a 3rd rounder ... seems pretty cheap to me for a guy that u guys are saying can rush the passer ... oh well .. we'll see .. hmmmm ... bill may have given us a discount cause he knows trading him to us isn't going to come back and bite him in the ass for 3 or 4 years .. they played us this year so they won't even play us for 3 more years .. and we ain't going to the playoff for til at least 18 .. answered my own question .. LOVE WHEN THAT HAPPENS .. *L* ..

I'm a build through the draft guy .. but we got him on the cheap, he's young and we have a TON of cap room and a TON of HOLES to fill ... this is one less hole we need to fill ... HOPEFULLY ... actually .. VERY VERY LIKELY ... no way do we let him walk .. he'll be tagged if we can't work it out ..

My one and only concern .. HIS ATTITUDE ... he's in a contract year .. playing on a team that has a very good shot at winning the super bowl and he's POUTING ... seems like thats mostly over PT .. so if we franchise tag him and let him play (witch we will .. *L*) .. it should keep him motivated for at least next year ..

GREAT TRADE ... what the worse case scenario .. we lose the 33rd pick in the 3rd round ... THE HORROR!!!

GREAT ROLL OF A DICE for the Harvard boys here ... lets see what numbers come up ..

WOOF WOOF WOOF!!!

We comparing Mingo to a pro bowl player?

https://twitter.com/JoeBanner13/status/793167311767306240



https://twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ/status/793196230650331136

j/c:


https://twitter.com/DougKyed/status/793196391988391936


https://twitter.com/DougKyed/status/793197120748658688

Hopefully we get Hamlett back on the PS.

was just thinking about this a bit more...we should be able to keep him. and if we do indeed get the #1 pick next year we could look like this.

OLB- Ogbah
OLB- Collins
DE- Myles Garrett
DE- Nassib
NT- Shelton
ILB- Davis
ILB- Kirksey

I think that front seven could do some damage.

Fixed it for you.

haha naw you didn't. i like my version better

You may need to switch Nassib and Ogbah in terms of where they've played this year.

yup your right...hold on a tic

Would I be pissing in your cereal if I said I thought Garrett would be better as an OLB than a DE in the 34 Base?

lol nope never eat cereal. I just looked him up and saw he plays DE at the moment so, just went with that.

That's because they run a 43.

I'll take your word for where he would fit best. if that is the case, there would worse things than.

OLB- Garrett
OLB- Collins
DE- Nassib
DE- Ogbah (if Garrett goes outside then I move Ogbah here)
NT- Shelton
ILB- Davis
ILB- Kirksey

I would happy with this set up. would you?

like this trade 3rd round for collins is lopsided are way.
2 point collins is 27 years old if he does not sign a longterm deal this year he may only get 30 million for the rest of his career a significant down grade from 50 million that I figure the browns will offer.
3 If the browns franchise him he would be payed well but maybe he gets nothing at 29.

As always Browns fans want to look at it and say ! 100 percent great move, or 100 percent stupid move. As always the truth is going to come out 1 to 3 years down the road. As a diehard Browns fan I pray this works out. As a lifelong Browns fans I have my doubts.

I expect Collins to be primarily used inside. He just doesnt have a lot of pass rush moves from the outside but he can fill the gap like few in the NFL. He played both inside and outside for the Pats but I feel he is more effective when playing in the traffic inside.

Ogbah will make a good backup for Garrett Nassib is at home LDE. Probably our best pick out of this draft.

So do I.

J/c haven't read the posts yet. But without exaggeration Jamie Collins is one of the best LBs in the NFL. Getting him for a 3rd round pick is a steal.

Hopefully they already made contract stipulations/guarantees as part of the trade because this is only a great trade IF they can sign him.

In the current base 34, JD could play R/LOLB and either ILB spot.
In nickel packages can literally play anywhere except for deep S or interior DL.

Not strange IMo. If the Pats don't have the cap space to sign him without blowing up another position or two, it makes sense to get a decent pick and move on to the next guy.

got a question for you due you think he will be used primarily inside or outside?
.So if you look forward the browns may draft a middle linebacker high giving us shelton ,collins plus maybe a stud middle linebacker.

If the browns win one game because of him this is a excellent move.

I believe Kirksey is likely to push Davis to the Bench and Collins takes over Kirksey's wil/ mike tendencies. Davis is absolutely horrid. never seen anyone take themselves out of the play the way he can.

Collins can thump in Ray Lewis fashion. He just isnt much of a pass rusher.

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
Follow on Twitter
on October 31, 2016 at 6:13 PM, updated October 31, 2016 at 6:14 PM

BEREA, Ohio - Hue Jackson made it clear the winless Browns didn't trade for Jamie Collins just to help them survive these last eight games.

"No, I don't think we want to try him out,'' said Jackson. "We'd love to keep him, obviously. But it's got to be mutual. And hopefully we can move in that direction. But it's getting him here, having him get to know us, us get to know him. We know what he is, we know what he brings to the table and I don't think we would've done this if we don't think there is an opportunity to move forward with him.''

That means the Browns have either already started extension talks for Collins, 27, or they will soon. They acquired him Monday in a trade with New England for a conditional fourth-round pick in 2018, but it's expected to improve to a third-round compensatory pick in 2017 if the Browns are awarded one that high, based on the amount and caliber of free agents they lost.

But Collins won't come cheap. Set to become a free agent after this season, Collins was looking for "Von Miller money'' out of the Patriots, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

That's an average of about $19 million a year. The problem is, Collins has 10.5 sacks over the past 3.5 seasons, while Miller averages almost 14 sacks a season when healthy.


Thoughts from Browns on Jamie Collins trade
"We added what I think is a tremendous football player to our team today in Jamie Collins,'' said Jackson. "It's another sign of I think where we're headed. I always think we're looking for ways to improve our team and I think we truly did so here today. Had an opportunity to talk to Jamie on the phone, it was a great conversation. He's going to come here with an open mind and come here and play football.''

"He's kind of a quiet young man who the most important thing to him is playing. That's what's important to him. Looking forward to meeting him and spending time with him and getting him acclimated here as soon as we can, getting him to know his teammates and learning our system and what we do.''

Browns acquire Collins in trade with Patriots

Jackson, who needs big playmakers on a defense that has blown four second-half leads, isn't worried about Collins freelancing, which is what former Browns general manager and former Patriots personnel executive Mike Lombardi said bothered Bill Belichick about Collins.

"Hey, the way he freelances is okay with me,'' said Jackson. " What happened there is not what's important for us here. We see a player that's very talented and has a tremendous skillset that fits in with what we do. So he's a Cleveland Brown now.''

Collins (6-3, 250) was originally selected by the Patriots in the second round of the 2013 draft out of Southern Miss. He's started 41 of his 50 games, totaling 285 career tackles, 10.5 sacks, five interceptions, 10 forced fumbles, four fumble recoveries, one defensive touchdown and one blocked extra point.

In 2015, he made his first Pro Bowl selection and was named to the Associated Press All-Pro second team. He led New England in tackles and played every defensive snap during the team's win in Super Bowl XLIX. He also led the Patriots in tackles in 2014 and 2015. This season, Collins started six of seven games, registering 43 tackles, two interceptions, one sack and one forced fumble.

"He's a tremendous pass rusher, he can play linebacker, there's several things he can do,'' said Jackson. "He has a real versatile skill set, because he's done both there at New England. We'll definitely find ways to plug him in and have him be a contributing member to our defense.''

As for whether he'll play inside or out, Jackson said, "we'll see. Let's get him here. It's where his comfort level I think is what's most important. And then we'll kind of work around that.''

Jackson also said he doesn't think Collins, who will debut for the Browns Sunday against the Cowboys, will have struggle going from a Super Bowl contender to a winless team.

"This young man is, I think he gets it,'' said Jackson. "There are decisions sometimes that are out of players' hands and I think what's most important to him, he's just excited to have the opportunity and we're excited to have him here.''

was just stated on NFL Network that it is a conditional 4th pick in 2018

those that are arguing that the pats did it to get "something" for him before he hits FA (in other words, they wouldn't re-sign him) ... they would have acquired a 3rd round pick anyways when he signed elsewhere PLUS they could have kept him through their Super Bowl run this year.

something about this trade raises a red flag to me

If i'm Horton my 1st choice for base 34 is to I play JD at SILB next to Kirksey

my 2nd choice for base 34 is OLB opposite Ogbah

In nickel I'm playing him at ILB

But, i'm also blitzing him and bringing him off the edge at times

My guess is that he starts out inside, but then eventually ends up moving all over the place. He's now our best defensive player and I don't think it's close.

I talked to a bud of mine that lives in NE and he knows football .. we grew up together ...

Him and Billicheck didn't get along .. he wasn't a team player in that it was all about him and his PT ... didn't care that Billicheck may know what he's doing and he didn't like his role ..

He says we got a very good football player that is HIGHLY MOTIVATED ..... his exact words ... "hopefully he matures or whoever signs him long term is GOING TO REGRET IT" ..

Take it for what its worth ... i think its a hell of a move .. lets see what we got and worst case .. we have him MOTIVATED for two years .. and maybe he will mature .. prolly not .. but one can hope ..

i almost spit out my drink at subway when i read we got him for a conditional pick. He's literally the first LB we've had here that's worth a damn since probably Jamir Miller. I just hope Horton doesn't ruin him. Our run game just got tremendously better

Don't forget our coverage as well. He has 2 picks this season so far.

he is literally a 250lb safety that was converted to linebacker in college. That just has tremendous value as they just get used to seeing things differently.

And pass rush and special teams.

Did anyone else see him hurdle the snapper and block a punt?

250 lbs and 4.64 40 yd
Broke the record at broad jump at the combine and forced them to add another line on the ground.

He has got all the measurables that the FO is looking for.

I wonder how many people that are upset, would of been upset if a different team made this exact same deal..

to me a conditional 4th in 2018 is a steal for this guy...but what do I know? lol

I guess it depends on if we lock him up long term on how good of a trade this is... If we get him for openly this year it's a waste... Eve a. Fourth rounder isn't worth it... If we can lock him up long term then it's a steal...

I am sorry, not trying to be disrespectful. but not sure what that means. to me we get him for 8 game minimum. most likely 4-7 years...and only a 4th in two years from now is a steal...but we will have to wait a see how it pans out.

BELICHICK CONFIDANT LOMBARDI: PATRIOTS WERE TIRED OF COLLINS FREELANCING
By Phil Perry October 31, 2016 1:05 PM Link

Jamie Collins was a freelancer on the field, and the Patriots weren't going to continue to put up with it.


That's how former assistant to the Patriots coaching staff Mike Lombardi explained the team's decision to trade Collins, a Pro Bowl linebacker last season, to the Browns for a compensatory third-round pick.

"Not surprised by the Pats trading Collins," Lombardi tweeted on Monday. "Not been playing well at all they need to get the defense fixed. This will get their attention."

Lombardi added: "Collins on the second play of the game [versus Buffalo] does whatever he wants and Bills gain 28 yards. Been happening all year. It was not going to continue."

The play Lombardi referenced was Bills running back Mike Gillislee's 28-yard run in the first quarter. Collins crept up to the line of scrimmage and shot a gap between the guard and tackle anticipating an inside run. Gillislee instead bounced outside and had plenty of room to run. Had Collins remained on the defensive right side of the formation, he may have been in position to make a play.

Collins' athleticism is what has made him one of the game's most impactful linebackers over the last season-and-a-half, but Lombardi insists that his eagerness to go off-script was not going to be tolerated any further.

"You are either coaching it or allowing it to happen," Lombardi wrote. "Belichick decided he was not going to allow it to happen. Colllins talented but..."

Collins played 47 of a possible 69 defensive snaps in Sunday's win over Buffalo, which came as somewhat of a head-scratcher since he is usually close to a 100 percent participant when healthy. Sixth-round rookie Elandon Roberts saw time in place of Collins in certain packages, playing 28 snaps total.

Lombardi worked in New England during the 2014 and 2015 seasons, and he worked with the team into last offseason before he and the Patriots mutually parted ways. Lombardi, who worked under Belichick during Belichick's head coaching tenure in Cleveland, now serves as an analyst for Fox.

is it a 4th in 2018 or a 3rd because on tv they're reporting as a 4th in 2018...and Hue said he doesn't really care about the freelancing...just curious

As I understand it, the Browns traded a contidional 4th round pick to the pats for Collins. If he leaves and the Browns get a compensatory 3rd round pick the Pats would then receive that pick instead. If he remains, with the Browns, I believe it remains the 4th rounder.

thanks for clearing that up for me. man I hope he pans out we need it. our DB's worry me the most

I don't believe this is correct. I think that it is a conditional fourth rounder because the Browns can't technically trade a compensatory pick that they don't actually own. If/when they get the compensatory pick, then that's what goes to the Patriots. If, for some reason, the Browns do not get that pick, then the Patriots get the Browns fourth round pick.

Anyway, I am excited that we got a very good player. Here is a pretty good article laying out all the possible factors behind the trade:

https://theringer.com/five-unsatisfactor...7a33#.vt6whm6j5

It may be a difference of 1 or 2 spots around 96 to 100 when it is finalized. So the Pats get the 3rd rounder comp pick, if awarded or the Browns 4th round pick if a 3rd rounder is not awarded to the Browns.

sooo...it's a late 3rd or early 4th? I think either way is good. then we can use all 13 picks on DB's and hope 3 or 4 of them stick...well maybe one on a O-line guy and one on a NT

Ok i got clarrification on this one. its a 4th rounder unless or until we get our 3rd round compensatory for Alex Mack. Once that pick is handed out, the pats get it.

I think that he will play outside, because we have sucked at setting the edge, and Collins is supposed to be very good at doing so.

got it. thanks for the research.

Even if he does play outside it won't be very often. We mostly play a 4-2-5. He would be among the "2."

I think that he will play outside, because we have sucked at setting the edge, and Collins is supposed to be very good at doing so.

If it's our 4th round comp pick, we basically just traded a 5th rounder for Collins.

Like the pick and your explanation. Passes the sniff test for me. Unfortunately, how he gets used in Horton's D is concerning. Want to see this guy play. The money can happen later; pay the man if he performs. But the proof is in the pudding. Unleash him.

If we lock him up long-term, this is WAY better than the unknown of a third or fourth-round draft pick. I'm cautiously optimistic about this move as it pertains to beyond this season, but Collins might now be our best player on D and fills a glaring weakness.

Might be?? .. *L* ... its not EVEN CLOSE ...

A pass rushing component would greatly improve our pass defense. We really need to set the edge and pressure from the perimeter.

Great pick up.

The way I saw the trade explained on ESPN is as such

The Pats did not intend to sign him at the $ he is said to want. They would have let him walk...and most likely received a 3rd round pick in 2018

So they trade him to the Browns for a 2017 3rd round pick

The Browns get him for 8 games in 2017...and the chance to sign him long term which they most likely will do....but if they don't....he leaves...and the Browns will get that 3rd round comp pick in 2018.

Really was a win/win for Cleveland. Get the talent in the building...kick the tires..at best get a very good young talent..and at worse just traded a 2017 for a 2018 plus 8 games

HACK

If he is a freelancer then you just let him blitz like crazy. Horton loves to blitz so I can imagine he is drooling right now.

I'd rather have a freelancer that gets results than what we have now that is failing to hold a lead. Hell I'll give up a 3rd round pick all day to secure a chance at this badboy. Time to open up the wallet and meet those cap spending requirements!!!

Lol, I was trying to be kind

I agree this was a good trade for us, a win win situation from what I have read. Who knows, he could become a leader for us on D.

j/c:


https://twitter.com/DawgsByNature/status/793470203258507265

There might be hope after all, as shockingly Lombardi and me agree on something, lol. He's basically making the same arguments I deducted yesterday:

http://www.profootballrumors.com/2016/11/jamie-collins-browns-patriots-contract

After trading for the pending free agent, the Browns are obviously looking to lock Collins up for the long term. Ian Rapoport of NFL.com (on Twitter) hears that Collins is looking to eclipse the $12.36MM/year that Luke Kuechly is making on his current deal with the Panthers. Collins’ camp views him as a hybrid player and will push for a deal that would put him in the top four amongst all linebackers in terms of AAV. Collins reportedly told the Patriots that he wanted “Von Miller money” at one point during talks, so it sounds like his demands have come back down to earth a little bit.

Meanwhile, former Pats assistant Mike Lombardi discussed the Collins deal on the latest edition of The Bill Simmons Podcast (audio link). During the interview, Lombardi shed some light on why New England was willing to bail on the talented linebacker in the middle of the season:

“The one thing you have to do, Donnie Walsh said this to me in 1990s, or the late 80s, ‘You’ve got to know what you’re trading before you make a trade.’ And that’s the one caveat that Belichick knows; he knows what he’s trading. He’s trading a guy who is very talented, but very moody, very inconsistent with his effort, and so for him to pay that player that type of money sends a message to the locker room that, look, I tolerate this and I reward this. He’s never doing that. And when Belichick, every message he sends in terms of a contract is a message to the locker room.”

So Collins will fit right in. Slack your way to an 8 figure contract. 12+ per year? That's more than one million for every sack in his four year CAREER.

Since he was basically available for nothing, this means the Browns were the only team willing (or dumb enough) to give him close to that kind of money.

Belli's yes man agrees with Belli's decisions. STOP THE PRESSES!! lol

Belichick ally Mike Lombardi rips Jamie Collins’ lack of effort

Posted by Michael David Smith on November 1, 2016, 12:28 PM EDT
link

Patriots coach Bill Belichick is far too tight-lipped to offer a candid explanation of why he decided to trade linebacker Jamie Collins to the Browns. But a media member who knows Belichick well says it’s simple: Collins is playing like a dog, and Belichick wanted to get rid of him.

Mike Lombardi, who worked for Belichick in both Cleveland and New England, said Collins isn’t playing well enough and isn’t trying hard enough.

“Watch the tape. Jamie has not played particularly well,” Lombardi said on WEEI. “Sometimes freelancing is a problem, and I think sometimes effort is a problem.”

Lombardi said Collins’ status as a soon-to-be free agent had nothing to do with the decision, and he indicated that Collins has been told before that he needs to work harder.

“This is about football,” he said. “This is about watching the player. Grade the player. People have a perception. You’re arguing based on perception. If you studied the game tape and you understood the defense, and you understood everything that’s going on, you would understand this is a football decision. . . . Jamie Collins, I’ve said this to this kid before when I was there. . . . When he wants to play and he’s really into it, he can be a very good player. Now, is there something going on in his life that I don’t know about? But through eight games as a Patriot this season he had not been playing at a level that’s acceptable to winning and beating good teams. The conversation we’re having isn’t about beating Landry Jones and the Pittsburgh Steelers. It’s about beating Ben Roethlisberger and the Pittsburgh Steelers in a championship game.”

Told that Pro Football Focus has given Collins strong grades, Lombardi scoffed.

“Who is doing the grading? Evaluate the evaluator,” he said. “I would rather go with Bill Belichick’s evaluation than Pro Football Focus.”

As Lombardi repeatedly questioned Collins’ production and praised Belichick’s decision to cut bait on him, one of the WEEI hosts told him, “It does feel like you’re doing Belichick’s bidding.” Lombardi took issue with that, but his comments did sound like he was offering an opinion he knows Belichick shares, even if Belichick won’t say so publicly.

As Lombardi repeatedly questioned Collins’ production and praised Belichick’s decision to cut bait on him, one of the WEEI hosts told him, “It does feel like you’re doing Belichick’s bidding.” Lombardi took issue with that, but his comments did sound like he was offering an opinion he knows Belichick shares, even if Belichick won’t say so publicly.
_________________________

This part in the article is why I take the entire thing with a HUGE grain of salt. Lombardi was sent out to do PR by Bill.....not the first time and won't be the last.

This kid might work out or he might not. The talent is there no doubt, but there is also ???s as well. I do know nothing Lombardi says will make me believe he can or can not be a long term solution.

They offered him 11 mil per year, so let's not pretend they were completely done with him and he's some bum..

Exactly +1

Exactly, apparently they liked his free lancing enough to offer him an 8 figure salary.

Vintage Mike Lombardi. He's a bought-and-paid-for crap-weasel who has made a living starting whisper campaigns against players, coaches, and front office people that he thinks stand in the way of his maximizing his position in any given organization. This goes back to the "lowlights" video he put together for Belichick and Modell when they deep-sixed Kosar. Why did Banner want Lombardi gone? Because he knew what he is and will always be, a complete douchebag.

One thing I really hate about the NFL is the way teams will try to justify bailing on a player whom they don't want to pay what he has coming by chipping away at his reputation/character with back-channel BS about his "work ethic" or stuff like him being a "clubhouse cancer" (watch - that'll be next about Collins). The way I see it, we got what will be the best player on our defense for what amounts to a 4th round pick.

we showed more class in our offseason. when our players left, for whatever reason. We didn't bash them or make them look bad.

*L* ..... Willy ... i could care less what Dumbardi says about Collins ... CARE LESS ...

But do u really think Bill gives a CRAP ABOUT PR ... uthink he cares what any of us thinks ... this man does what he wants and could give a CRAP what anyone thinks ...

He cut Bernie Kosar, the most popular player in C-town more than likely EVER for the same damm reason ...

*LOL* .... come on Willy .. u know Bill don't give a CRAP what anyone thinks ... *L* at the notion he'd send someone out to do his PR work ...

Django, you're hilarious. No matter how good this trade is for the Browns, you're determined to cling to any scrap of info that might support your idea that this was a bad move.

Guess what...for every Lombardi, there's 10 analysts that say this was a great trade.

Anyone who thinks that Jamie Collins is not a stud linebacker has never actually watched him play.

We haven't given him jack yet. He either fits in or he leaves in FA and we've traded a third round comp pick this year for one next year.... So we have half of a season to figure out if he's a fit in the locker room if he is a hard worker while trying to learn our system, etc. He's young and he's motivated. Let's see what he can do... If our staff thinks he's capable of excelling here then offer him a deal. If he doesn't take it we can always franchise him for a year and try to work something out over the long haul or let him walk and we're out very little. Hard to imagine why anyone would complain about acquiring talent. Especially at linebacker. We can use all the talent we can get.

Have you ever complimented our FO/GM EVER...getting worse and worse??? He is a superstar OLB that was in BB's dog house. They knew they were not going to sign him we got the cap space up our gazoo if we want him here and especially if he catches the HUE JACKSON fever and wants to be here...so we pay a 27 stud OLB some bucks...how is that remotely BAD?!? You never cease to amaze me on your ego regarding being a GM...lol

j/c....

Patriots assistant says Jamie Collins “freelancing” wasn’t an issue

Posted by Darin Gantt on November 2, 2016, 7:43 AM EDT

In the wake of the startling trade of linebacker Jamie Collins to Cleveland, players reacted with shock, while Bill Belichick surrogate Michael Lombardi gave the party line by saying Collins wasn’t playing hard or playing well, and that “freelancing” was part of his problem.

This week, one of Belichick’s actual assistants disagreed with that notion.

“I wouldn’t say freelancing was an issue,” linebackers coach Brian Flores said, via Jeff Howe of the Boston Herald. “Jamie was a very good player for us. He made a lot of plays. He helped us win a lot of ballgames. I keep saying that time and time again. He was a good player. Freelancing, I mean, did he make mistakes? Absolutely. But again, everyone makes mistakes. There’s not a player in the league who doesn’t make mistakes. But again, he made more plays than he made mistakes. I would say that. He was a great player for us.”

As you might imagine, players echoed those sentiments, since one of their own just got sent to football Siberia for a future draft pick in the middle of a 7-1 season.

“You’ve got to put your feelings aside, obviously,” Flores said. “We all have our own personal feelings about the situation, but at the end of the day, Bill felt like that was the best thing for the team.

“We need to move forward and deal with the adversity like we deal with any adversity.”

Describing it as an adversity sounds unusual, particularly after one of Belichick’s longtime henchmen practically threw a party for Collins’ departure. But it also makes it even more clear that the business side of the issue became the driving force in the transaction, and like the Panthers pulling the franchise tag from Josh Norman this offseason, gave them an opportunity to remind everyone who the boss was.

Article

I'll be surprised if he sticks around very long.

Sure he is talented, probably better then any LB we have. He can't be happy with being traded here though..look at us...this trade was more Bellichik sending a message to his lockeroom:

"Either you play ball or i'll trade you to Cleveland"

Im sure Collins drank quite a bit in depression when he heard he was traded to us...just when you think the Browns can't get worse they do.

I'd like to see Collins stay, but he isn't worth 11 million dollars...in that case rent him for 8 games and let him go...we can get comparable LB talent in the 3rd and 4th rds if we actually drafted properly...no need to grossly overpay for New England's used goods.

Trust me, Bellichik knew exactly what he was getting rid of...he was being generous offering him 11 mill...Collins was just too stupid to take it...Bellichik will have him replaced with a player of similiar talent next year in the draft at a fraction of the cost...

Its the system more then the players because Bellichik has a system and actually knows what he is doing...lots of role players...everyone plays their role...you look like Superstars, but in reality your just a guy that can be replaced...Collins is a guy...nothing more...however our roster is lacking guys, let alone studs so we take what we can get..

I'm definitely skeptical of WHY he was traded. There has to be something that Belichick knows. We'll find out I guess.

Skeptical is a good word in this case. There's nothing wrong with casting a wary eye on this situation.

https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/793838004154531840

I hope JC does well here and wants to stay. We can offer him a good contract that hopefully he accepts. Also, he may like that he can become a team leader here instead of being just another guy like he was in N.E.

Trading a 3rd/4th rounder for a 27 year old Pro Bowl LB made us worse?

He must have meant worse in draft positioning.

Yeah he knows his cap limitations and Collins wanting crazy money plus the fact that the Browns probably won't play the Patriots again for a few years as to mitigate the Collins revenge factor on Tom Brady.

...this is kind of random, but did RG3 and Collins have a sleep over before his "introductory" press conference and do each other's hair?

at the end of the day, I think Collins staying here will pend on what deal can be done.

Just watched his presser, and seems to me that he understands the NFL is a business, and he's gonna do what he needs to do for him.

The only positive thing he mentioned was that the atmosphere was family like, but even that was kind of forced out of him.

Wow, what is up with his hair???? LOL

I got all the way through this article, and then realized it was La Canfora.. wasted moments..



Apparently Hue and the FO shouldn't make any plans for the future, ever, because they might get fired..

Ok then..

All they're saying is that is the worst case scenario. They're not saying that is the plan going in.

LaCanfora is an ass. I really don't understand his beef with the Browns.

Well .... in fairness ......

Haha, in fairness, it wouldn't be the second time

I hate la canfora. Can't even read his garbage anymore

I am not sure how to react to this trade. I don't think it was a bad trade. But, there are a couple of things that bother me enough that I am not ready to proclaim it a good trade. Those concerns are:

--Belichick is not dumb. His team is the Super Bowl favorite. The timing of this trade is odd.

--Collins could leave right after the season.

--I am not sure about this, but I get the sense that Collins might be too much of a me player rather than a we player.

That's why I can't say it was a great trade for the Browns. However, I don't understand how it could be a bad trade. It's not like they gave up a lot.

I think Beli had a Kosar moment. If you believe Collins coach and it was not because of free lancing then it may have been as simple as Ol bill just felt like Collins was saying "in your face" for playing foot loose and fancy free even though he was told to stick to the program. Somethings are just that simple.

My biggest reason for liking this trade is lombardi ripped us.
Just remember mingo is elite and mcfadden is a player.

I think the trade was all about $$$$$$$$. Collins is due a pretty big pay day and Bill finds cheaper players who fit his system, he currently has only 2 players earning over $10 mill a year on average and they are Brady ($20 mill a year) and LT Solder ($10 mill a year). The Pats are just a little more then $11 mill under the cap and they have 14 players who will be Free Agents at the end of the year and 8 of those players are starters.

Had nothing to do with money ... there the odds on favorites to reperesent the AFC in the SB ... they have a LEGITE SHOT at winning it ...

U don't make MONEY MOVES for next year when your in that position ..

Plus .. they could have TAGGED HIM and GOTTEN A BETTER PICK GOING THAT ROUTE ..

This was clearly Bill having enough of SOMEONE not doing there job and putting himself above the team ...

And i LOVE THE TRADE FOR US ...

Upside vs downside of this trade is INCREDIBLY in the upside column ...

There's really VERY VERY LITTLE downside ...

Sorry but I disagree.



You do if you have a younger, cheaper player that you like a lot. (Elandon Roberts)



They would have to franchise tag him and while Collins is a good player I don't see anyone giving up 2 #1 picks for him.

He's at the end of his rookie deal, why isn't he an RFA?

j/c

Mumbles is not completely infallible. Remember:

He jettisoned Chandler Jones for Jonathan Cooper. Jones is headed to the Pro Bowl and Cooper is now a Brown.

This is not the typical bad-deal-with-Mumbles where we get an aging Willie McG type to collect his last $$$ contract here and then never play another down in the NFL after WE were done paying him.

This is a just-turned 27 year old STUD. He may end up being a turd, but this is exactly the type of big-name, big-money risk/guy we should go after.

Beli wanted to get some of his younger guys more playing time to see how he needs to address the position going forward. Collins was not thrilled with receiving less playing time during a contract year.

I imagine there has been some interesting conversations between the two and it resutled in (you arent happy here on a Super Bowl contender, fine see how happy you are on a winless team in Cleveland).

This was a message to the player and to the team kind of trade. Still great news for us.

I pray to god u just didn't know this .. hopefully your not LEAVING KEY PARTS OUT witch to me is LYING ....

They also got a 2nd round pick ....

OOOOOPS ....

Because there is no such thing for a player with a 4 or 5 year rookie deal.

The only RFA are rookies who signed contracts that were 3 years or less.

Thanks, didn't kow that.

You're welcome.

IIRC, prior to the current CBA, the 5th season could be a restricted season. That was one of the changes when the newest CBA was approved.

I wasn't referencing the value of the trade as much as the player evaluations in the trade. However, in regards to the value of that trade, Mumbles really needs that 2nd Rd Pick (likely a late-ish pick in that round) to stud out as that player should be compared against a Pro Bowl player. Otherwise, the value of that trade is quite poor. Also, had he not gotten Cooper in the deal, would he have picked up another valuable "asset" instead of the player? I would think so. So he missed out on that particular "asset".

If WE were the team making that trade...and WE quickly cut the player that came with the trade...we'd have an endless thread about the FO and how they haven't got a clue while also forgetting the potential of the pending draft pick. (Just like we always do...and most recently this past draft.)

Enough about my opinion of the value of that trade. The world view I was addressing is this one:

A player traded BY Mumbles quickly went on to the Pro Bowl. But...but...but...players he trades are always "done" after leaving his Kingdom. Also, a player traded TO Mumbles quickly was waived. But...but...but players he picks up are always "resurrected" in his Kingdom.

Collins is young and growing...our other Patriots pickups heretofore have been the opposite of young and growing. This easily appears to be different than our past dealings with Mumbles.

U put out BAD INFO ..

Not gonna waste my time explaining the rest ... your obviously still peed off one of the 3 GREATEST HC'S in the history of the NFL cut Bernie and left the Browns ..

There is NO COMPARISION on the why's in the Jones and Collins trades ... NONE ...

U put out more BS in this last post ... again ... NO COMPARISION between trading guys that Bill thinks are done and why Jones was traded ..

At the end of the day .. Bill did not want a FREE LANCING "ME" player on his SB contender ..

Unless your telling me Bill valued a 3rd or a 4th round pick MORE than giving him the BEST SHOT to win the SB THIS YEAR .... *LOL* ... cause mumbles is STUPID and HATES WINNING ...

We got a GIFT ... and one of the reasons we were the recieptints is because mumbles knows this trade will not come back to bite him in rather ass for at least 3 years ..

WE GOT A GIFT CAUSE WE SUCK!!!

Sometimes the TRUTH HURTS .. the fact it hurts doesn't make it any less TRUE!

And I think it was a GREAT TRADE FOR US ..

Applaud the FO for not turning down the GIFT!!!

Are you having a conversation with an imaginary friend? Did I say anything about Mumbles as a Head Coach or Bernie?

Mumbles is a great HC...I wish he coached my favorite team(s)...I'm simply saying that he is not infallible. I think this was a great trade for the Browns. I also think Mumbles let go of a darn good player because he's an egomaniac - but he makes it work - and not every move he makes is perfect. That said, I think NE wins the Super Bowl this year anyway.

This is the kind of trade/move I hope becomes the trademark of our FO. It's quite different than "snaring" Willie McGinest or David Bowens at the absolute end of their careers.

Sidenote: I'll give 50 dollars to anyone who can steal Diam's Caps Lock key.

There u go ... ...

I can get JIGGY with that ...

*LOL* .... if you'll send me $50 American ... I PROMISE I'LL NEVER USE IT AGAIN EXCEPT TO SAY L OR LOL OR SOME VERSION OF THAT ...

If your JIGGY with THAT .. i'll PM u MY e-Mail ADDY so u can paypal me the money or send U my address so u can send the check ...

LET ME KNOW!!!!!!

How much if i NEVER DO ...... THAT AGAIN??????

Ray Horton on Jamie Collins: 'We're going to ask a lot of him'

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
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on November 04, 2016 at 6:12 PM, updated November 04, 2016 at 6:13 PM

BEREA, Ohio - Jamie Collins has brought his New England frame of mind to Cleveland, and Ray Horton can't wait to see him play Sunday against the Cowboys.


"Jamie is very impressive in his football IQ,'' said Horton. "I'd assume the hardest transition for a player like that is coming in and at New England — they were a hybrid 3-4/4-3 depending on what game they were playing — so he knows what we play and the position, but to come in the first day and learn a new language and to be able to flip it in his mind and look very smooth in doing it was very impressive.''


Collins, acquired Tuesday in a trade with the Patriots for a third-round compensatory pick, will likely start Sunday's game and play a majority of the snaps.

"Very athletic, very smart, dynamic,'' said Horton. "It appears to be an easy transition for him. We're going to ask a lot of him and obviously see what he can handle, but so far, I have been really impressed with his smarts and his savvy and athleticism on the field and really off the field, too, of just learning something and not hesitating to translate it in his mind."


Browns associate head coach Pep Hamilton, who's prepared for Collins a lot over the previous three years when he was with the Colts, told his offense before the Oct. 9th matchup against New England "that he was one of the most underrated defensive players in the National Football League. He's a guy that can change a game as a defensive player, and those guys are rare.


"He can play on all three levels of the defense. He can rush the passer, he can cover your backs out of the backfield and of course, he can fit in there and stop the run. If you detach a tight end, even some receivers, he can cover those guys out in space. With all that being said, he has bad intentions when he gets to the ball carrier. He has had a lot of success against the teams that unfortunately I was a part of.''

Horton acknowledged that Collins, a 2015 Pro Bowler, will move around to different spots. He's listed at outside in the depth chart, but could play inside in the nickel. In New England, they started taking him off the field on running downs and playing a rookie instead.


"He will play all over for us,'' said Horton. "He's a joy to watch move around on the football field. He gives you the ability to do a couple things and put different people on the field, different packages because you have to account for him to be different places. I wouldn't say he's necessarily just going to be just an inside guy for us."


Horton said Collins' impact will be felt on more than the stat sheet.


"Some of it shows up on the practice field of 'this is how you prepare, this is how you play,'' he said. "Obviously, when you come from a Pro Bowl and from a known program, guys look and go, 'Oh, OK, well let me see how he does things.'''


He said Collins' ability has been immediately evident this week. He joins a defense that includes eight rookies and five second-year players among the 24. He's one of only to Pro Bowlers, including Haden.


"You can't fool players,'' said Horton. "Players know talent when they see it. They see it across the field, they see it on the film and then now they see it in the huddle with him. Sure, we are going to embrace him because we are trying to get better players, more talented players and put a better product on the field. This is a great step in that direction."


Haden, who appreciates other Pro Bowl talent, agreed.


"You can tell ballplayers as soon as they get out there,'' said Haden. "You can tell just his physicality and understanding the game and just the way that he plays, the way that he knows football, we got a whole lot better with him.''


Haden added, "the dude's just running around, he's just punching balls out left and right. It helps us out a lot and it shows that the season isn't over for us.''


Haden acknowledged that's it's a big change going from a Super Bowl contender to a winless team.


"(But) I think he kind of gets that we don't feel like an 0-8 team,'' said Haden. "He understands that we're not just walking about moping, waiting for the next game. We're excited, we're ready to go out there and play Dallas.''


Horton said Collins "understands the opportunity that he has in front of him here to be a huge difference maker, where at someplace else, you may be one of the guys. I think he's excited. I think he's genuine. He's been fantastic here. He really has been."


That's a boost for the Browns, what with the 6-1 Cowboys and their scary-good offensive line up Sunday.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...ollins_we.html

Yeah, but if you call Belichick "Mumbles" enough, it proves he is ignorant and that the Browns took advantage of him.

Another outstanding football post...your ability to misunderstand and misinterpret is truly legendary.

Here is a strange story about Collins:

this story makes no sense. How in the world does a manicure affect your practice? are they saying that he wore the bags during practice? there are a number of reasons to dip your hands in wax. I had to do it during therapy for damaged nerves in my fingers. sounds like a silly story to me.

Was it a practice or a walk through? The article says both in different spots.

It does seem pretty strange to me, but I vaguely remember an article about Hue being a mani/pedi fan, too.

Those are the types of stories that are "leaked" to media more often now.
The intent of the story is clearly to cast a player in a negative light for whatever reason.

Collins is a physical freak and was a ultra productive probowl caliber player. The rest of that stuff doesnt matter to me.

Browns' Jamie Collins: 'If the money is right, I could stay here'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on December 30, 2016 at 2:48 PM, updated December 30, 2016 at 4:21 PM

BEREA, Ohio - Browns linebacker Jamie Collins doesn't like losing, but $10 million a year would make it a lot easier to take.

That would be the going the rate for Collins if he hits the market March 9, according to spotrac.com.

"(Losing is a deterrent) but at the same time, money comes into play around that time,'' Collins said Friday. "If the money is right then I could stay here. Obviously I'm not going to turn it down.''

Asked if money is his top priority, he said, "No, it's the not the top priority.''

What is?

"I mean, everybody, the people that have been here, my family, me, I could go on and on about this,'' he said.

Collins, a 2015 Pro Bowler, also likes a lot of his teammates, including up-and-coming players such as linebacker Chris Kirksey and running back Duke Johnson, who playfully ducked in on Collins' interview.

"We're real close, man,'' Collins said of his teammates in general. "That's the thing with me. I get real tight with people. If I like you, then I like you, and we'll go a long way. If not, then it's dead. I like a lot of guys in here.''

Despite coming from the Super Bowl-contending Patriots, who traded him for a 2017 compensatory pick at the end of the third round, Collins would have no qualms about remaining with a rebuilding team.

"It's been pretty good,'' he said. "I have zero complaints. Obviously the win-loss column, but you can't control everything. You've just got to use it and take advantage of the downfalls you get (and use them) as stepping stones. I have no doubt about me staying here if that was the case. I would like to be here. But it's not just me wanting to be here."

He sees good things ahead for a defense that has some good young players in Danny Shelton and Emmanuel Ogbah.

A man of few words in his infrequent interviews, he's not worried about being franchised, which would net him about $16 million next season.

"It depends on what happens,'' he said. "I don't know what's going to happen. It is what it is.''

Spotrac.com estimates Collins' market value at about five years, $51,380,813, or an average of about $10.2 million a year. It's worth it, if he can be the focal point that defensive coordinator Ray Horton envisions.

"Jamie's a former quarterback,'' Horton said. "He thinks like that. He sees the whole field. He understands what he's looking at. He understands splits. He understands plays, and he's a guy that loves football. I think he's opening up (to his teammates), meaning, 'OK, I understand the guy's dynamic and who I am and what they are,' and he is very encouraging out on the field.

"As you guys watch practice, he's always going after the ball. He does this in the game. He gives us a chance to do a lot of different things. Obviously, the more pieces we get, the more things we will do with him and move him around and be the centerpiece of a defense that is going to be very dynamic because he allows you to do some things that are not traditional in defense. I'm really excited about what he can do."

Adapting to a new defense midseason, Collins has recorded 59 tackles, two sacks and one forced fumble in his seven starts with the Browns. Absent are some of the game-changing impact plays, but Horton believes they'll come. He cited one of his former players, former Pittsburgh safety Troy Polamalu, who was surrounded by stars.

"I don't think you can force plays,'' said Horton. "Jamie makes the plays that come to him. Some of that is a factor of how much pressure we get on the quarterback and what he does, but Jamie is immensely talented and when you get more bodies around, more good bodies and more athletic bodies - Troy was playing with a lot of Pro Bowl players and potential Hall of Fame players."

Collins has won over Hue Jackson, who's stated several times he wants him back.

"He's been really good,'' said Jackson. "He's a dependable player. He's accountable. He's always there. We've asked a lot of him. We've played him in a couple different spots. He's taken all of that on and hasn't blinked.

". . . I have a lot of respect for him. Hopefully, as I said earlier, we can keep him around here."

Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden is all for wrapping up Collins long-term.

"You can tell if a guy's got it, if he doesn't,'' said Haden. "You can tell if he understands, you can tell if he plays the way that you can be able to be effective in the league, using your hands, being very, very physical, dominant, understanding stuff. And he does all of that. You could tell when he came out there he's one of the best players on our defense as soon as he steps out on the field.

"You could tell that by just the way he moves, the way he understands football, the way he plays so physical and is able to shed blocks and get people off of him. It's just something that we definitely, definitely need on our defense. If we want to be a dominant defense, we have to have players like him that can beat the man in front of him and that can win their one-on-ones way more than they're going to lose.''

And if the money's right, they just might be able to do it.

This is a contract that's more important to me than Pryor's.

The Browns have some decent talent that they either pay or let walk. I will be watching w/interest to see if their walk their talk or if their talk is cheap.

Pay Collins long term.

Use the tag on Pryor.

Collins will also be a dissapointment wherever he ends up ...

ME ME ME .... thats why Bellicheck got rid of him ... Good Luck winning with those types of guys ...

This guy wants way way way more money than he's worth ... problem is ... some dumb ass team will pay it .. hope it ain't us ...

Flame away boys .. *LOL* ..

j/c:

I see a lot of talk about overpaying for guys and being in cap hell on this board. I think people still believe that this is the early 2000s and that the salary cap is really harming some teams. That isn't so in 2016-2017. Even teams who are close to the cap limit can be out of trouble in no time.

Stop living in the past and let's keep our better players.

Not meant to criticize anyone or their post, just making a point.

Look at Vers' post.
Now looks at Diam's 2 posts later.

Whether we sign Collins or not, there is no way that the FO can win with this board.
As a result, some posters will jump in to defend the move.
It's not agenda, it's differences of opinion on the move.

The point I want to make? Let's quit with the whole poster has an agenda business. The only agenda anyone has is that they want the Browns to become winners. Mac spends a lot of time criticizing the FO. He doesn't have an agenda, just an opinion. Those who defend the FO don't have an agenda, just a differing opinion. Too often the term agenda gets thrown around to try to discredit a posters opinion and that grinds discussion to a halt.

Mac makes some good points about the front office. When people cannot refute them they throw around the term agenda as their only recourse. When others comeback that he may be premature in his conclusions, agenda gets thrown at them.

I would like (though I know I will never get) a moratorium on the use of the word agenda.

Anything coming to FA is going to get overpaid. We have to pick our spots. Impact LB...WR with size and speed...

I think the LB is more important and gives return on that over spend. WR is good for fantasy stats. Pats and Pitts don't invest a lot in their WRs...Count the rings.

Collins yes was let go by BB but they butted heads and BB rules over there like no other coach in the NFL...its his way or the highway which is what Collins got.

Us if we build our defense around his skills it will work.

I think that will be the case.
jmho

Not if they keep RG3, he doesn't throw to Pryor enough; the two don't seem on the same page.

So that is your agenda?

My agenda is to optimize my enjoyment reading Dawgtalkers.net

That's not an agenda. It's a goal, or a hope.
Agenda doesn't even mean what some people think it means.

It might be a word that has been bastardized.

That is something that has become quite apparent and I don't understand why. On the surface, itt looks like there skill sets should match up quite nicely.

Then I have no agenda

But you are right. That word doesn't mean what most of us think it means.

My agenda is to increase my use of purple.

Fixed.

I think it's due to a lack of playing time. I think they will be fine together, besides, Pryor got more targets last game. RG3 is working back into it.

What the Browns should do is offer more money to TP and JC than anyone else. Now the ball is in their court. Do you both really want to stay here or are you willing to take less money and play somewhere else. We'll see what happens. I would do anything reasonable to keep them here. IMO they are 2 guys we can build on for the future.

Ideally you wouldn't want them to know what is anybody else is offering. If they get to free agency they are likely gone.

I should have phrased that better; make them an offer they can't refuse, unless they don't want to be here.