DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Coaches to Push Owner Jimmy Haslam for Front Office Changes

This was a complete rebuild and this was just season one. I have no problem with keeping all of them. They have a lot of ammunition going into this offseason with cap space and draft picks. Get us some more young talent and next year will be year two of a complete rebuild. Man, it takes some time to build a team from the ground up. It isn't accomplished in one year or in two. Hue Jackson has said many times he is 100% IN to the front office and their methods. So until I hear HIM say he isn't there is no reason to believe rumors to the contrary.

Could you expand on this a little bit? Are you thinking destined as in fall guy for failures of the next couple seasons or are you thinking that there will be a fall guy on the coaching staff for this season?

So I was beboppin around town today and listened to Hue talk about the importance of having a championship caliber qb on the roster. He admitted that there isn't one on the team when he stated, "'do you have him here yet?' Obviously we are 1-15, everything would say maybe we don't."

Read this back to yourself out loud. Does it still seem grounded in reality? If so, maybe you could illustrate how that worked through the past year and explain how that may possibly affect the upcoming off season.

I think that the team will lose a ton of games next year because their talent level will still be way below acceptable.

We already have posters calling Hue "a punk." We have others saying he mismanages the clock. We have posters saying he has hurt Cody and rushed RGIII back too early. We have others who say he is bad at calling plays and needs an OC.

That is after one year where many of these same posters said before the year that the team wasn't good enough to win this year and we should all have patience. LOL

We also have quite a few posters who blame Horton for the poor defensive effort and want him fired.

I think it is going to get ugly for the coaches next year when the losses continue to pile up.

I think attendance at the games is going to continue to decline.

I think those factors will put Hue and other coaches in a precarious position.

I think that they should have tweaked the plan and given an obviously inexperienced FO some help.

And for the sixth time: What qualifications does Sashi have that warrants him having so much power in football operations. I still have not received an answer on that one.

So you can't see that we haven't had an offseason yet. Got ya. I don't expect playoffs yet, but I do expect improvement.


Unless one of those people is named Haslam, there's little to worry about.

I can see that you didn't feel that was necessary yourself.

Again, if those people aren't named Haslam...

Because you think that it has to be either the coaches or FO being fired every year. Give Haslam a little credit for being smarter than that and supporting both this year.

Again, you assuming that we skip the offseason this year I guess.

Why Hue and not the FO at that point?

In think we should implement casual Tuesdays to win games and I'm about as qualified in my thoughts to improve wins as you are about yours.


Oh I don't know, he was already working for this team and did a good enough job to get promoted? Isn't that how most people move up the ladder? Now for the very first time, what makes you so qualified to question how much power Sashi is allowed to have?

I for one am pretty impressed that despite our stupid fans and all of their coach vs front office drama that we bring every year, that the owner decided that this year the answer was none of the above.

I don't want to eliminate your posting on this board, I just want to tweak it a little. Perhaps have a football guy consult with you a little bit.

It depends on what you mean by 'power'. I think his real power lies with managing other people who are supposed to be doing the leg work so to speak, specifically the personnel department (Berry and scouts). I don't think DePo reports to him. I think that is a direct report to Haslem. Furthermore, I don't think his power equates to directing the personnel staff on draft selections, creating the draft board, looking at player personnel on other teams, etc although I'm sure he is in the room on those discussions and has traveled with Berry to bowl games. I think Berry manages that with his staff and Brown makes sure activity is met and progress is made in those decisions. I believe Haslem said upon hiring Brown that his leadership capabilities were the main reason why he was selected and Brown (paraphrasing) knows what he doesn't know. Or maybe Brown said that himself.

I think his power 'truly' lies with the final vote if there is a deadlock between the coaching staff and the personnel staff regarding a player, systematic approach, etc. I don't think you need a robust amount of "football" knowledge for a role like that but you need to be as informed as possible from both ends IF a situation arises where two departments are locked on an issue.

Brown even said in the press conference yesterday that the team will continue to lean on Hue for a QB. I think it's pretty evident both Sashi and the personnel dept. leaned on him when it came to RG3 and Kessler, right?

I don't think his power is in regard to calling the shots on "football" moves. I think his power is around managing other people, presenting questions about process, and leading the department to, hopefully improve. I don't necessarily think you need a "football" person for something like that. You need a leader. We'll find out if Sashi is that.

Qualifications (if that's what you need to read) for his position of leadership:
- In the NFL world for several years
- Proved worth (allegedly) to Haslem since he bought the team. We cannot begin to quantify what that means, admittedly.
- Involved in contract negotiations with players/agents. In fact, as a lawyer, I'm sure he managed legal contract with just about anything related to the Browns until he took over in his current position
- Involved with managing team cap space
- Managed to work in two very hostile environments with Farmer/Pettine & Banner/Lombardi/Chud. This may have illustrated to him exactly what he DOESN'T want as he manages personnel department's relationship with coaches.

I think many people are stuck in the fact that just because he manages departments that include personnel, that he needs to be a football guy. I don't know if that's necessarily true as long as there is someone else dedicated to running that dept on a daily basis. As of right now, I think that his Andrew Berry. I don't know if this setup will work but we've done basically every other chain of command with zero results and continuity.

Good point. So far, with Haslem, neither the coach or top FO decision-makers stayed when changes were made.

Browns will ‘take aggressive shots’ at bolstering young roster

ou build through the draft.

Browns executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown said as much Monday afternoon in an end-of-year news conference.

But Brown, who reflected on a trying 1-15 season alongside head coach Hue Jackson and chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta, said they’ll work in “lockstep” this offseason to build up the team’s roster by any means necessary.

“We want to take aggressive shots at adding talent to the roster, whether that’s at the trade deadline, free agency or in the draft,” Brown said. “The draft is going to be our primary pipeline of talent to the roster but it’s not going to be an exclusive pipeline. I think we’re going to go out and look at all the opportunities available to us come March.”

Brown’s comments echo a plan outlined by owner Jimmy Haslam, who spoke Sunday after an overtime loss to the Steelers. Haslam broke down Cleveland’s path forward in three parts. “No. 1, we’ve got to re-sign our key players. No. 2, we’ve got to be appropriately aggressive in free agency and No. 3, we’ve got to have a great draft,” he said.

With the No. 1 and No. 12 overall picks and five selections in the top 65 via a trade with the Philadelphia Eagles this past spring, the Browns are poised to add more young talent to what’s already one of the league’s youngest rosters. They’ll also prioritize retaining talented players such as leading receiver Terrelle Pryor and 2015 Pro Bowl linebacker Jamie Collins, whom the team acquired through a midseason trade with the New England Patriots.

And finally, Brown said, the Browns will survey the free agent landscape in March.

“We’ve got a lot of work to do before decision time, when free agency opens up and when the draft opens up,” he said.

“I hope this is a big offseason for us, we’ve positioned ourselves well. We can add some talent in the draft and we look forward to exploring what’s available to us in free agency as well. So we do hope to transfer our roster toward a positive and add a lot of young talent.”

Jackson, who declined to “sugarcoat” the team’s record following an overtime loss to Pittsburgh on Sunday, spoke of a vision where such a dramatic, season-finale game is one day for a division title.

“We have a lot of work to do. How far away? I can’t really say until we add more players. I think it’s hard to look at it and say, ‘You’re this far away’ or ‘You're that far away,’” he said of those prospects.

“We do have pieces, we do have guys that can play in the AFC North. We just need more of them to get to where we want to be.”

“We’re going to bring in guys who are competitive as heck, that are physical and that can play in this division, and we are going to develop them as well as any team would in the league,” Brown said.

“We’ll put a coaching staff around them who will put them in the right position. We have to execute on it. There are a lot of different paths up the mountain. We have ours. We like ours. We like folks who are on the road with us executing it, but it’s on us to execute.”

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Browns-will-%E2%80%98take-aggressive-shots%E2%80%99-at-bolstering-young-roster/184265f6-cbb5-4c61-974f-9a0ad1605e1e

FYI- From the twitter account of ESPNCleveland/Tony Grossi


https://twitter.com/ESPNCleveland/status/816303365818871808

Ahhh........making it personal. You never disappoint.

Hue pondering a new play caller: "Should I call FB West Right Slot 372 Y Stick?"

I think you are the one making it personal.

I'm just the one making it real.

The only thing you made real was pretending a team that has little to nothing to build on will make some legendary leap in one off season and tried to make some weak excuse how a man with zero actual football experience is in charge of things.

It's weak and baseless.

That pretty much sums up about 95% of his posts ... Deputy EXCELS at weak and baseless ... its his superpower .... *LOL* ...

The board is so much more enjoyable now that i don't waste my time reading him anymore ...

Cleveland Browns owners Jimmy, Dee Haslam to fans: 'You deserve better'

http://www.wkyc.com/sports/nfl/browns/cl...etter/381635110

WKYC 2:46 PM. EST January 03, 2017

BEREA, OHIO - In an open letter sent to Cleveland Browns' season ticket holders, team owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam apologized to fans for the 1-15 season.

The letter apologized for a "disappointing year" and thanked fans for their support. It went on to reiterate Jimmy Haslam's previous comments in which he put his faith in head coach Hue Jackson, General Manager Sashi Brown and Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta.

Read the letter in its entirety below:

With the close of the 2016 season, we wanted to thank you again for all of your support and apologize for such a disappointing year.

We greatly appreciate the tremendous passion and loyalty of Browns fans, and it is a difficult season like this that shows how truly fortunate we are to have such support. We fully recognize how tough this season has been for you, and we want to let you know it has been equally hard for us. We are extremely grateful for your support and do not take it for granted.

Clearly, this season has been a painful part of our building process. You deserve the best, and you certainly deserve better than a 1-15 team. We are sorry that our results have not been better.

Immediately following last season, we communicated our commitment to bringing in strong, smart leaders with high character, who would be relentlessly driven to improve our football team and look at every resource possible. We continue to feel very good about the leaders we have in place – Coach Hue Jackson, Sashi Brown, and Paul DePodesta – and how they have approached their individual roles, while working extremely well together, all with the sole interest of creating a consistent winning football team for you, the fans. While we obviously did not accomplish that this season, our confidence in our leadership’s character, attitude, approach and ability remains strong as we faced this year’s challenges.

We understand the critical nature of this upcoming offseason as we continue to improve our roster. Our personnel group has positioned us very well to add quality players through multiple high draft picks while maintaining salary cap flexibility and the ability to sign and retain our core nucleus of players.

We remain committed and determined to rewarding you with the consistent winning team you deserve. We will continue to do all we can to reach that goal.

Thank you for your support.
Dee and Jimmy Haslam

The Browns finished the 2016-17 season 1-15, earning them the No. 1 overall pick of the 2017 draft.

If the Browns do really bad again this coming season the Haslam's should just changed the year in their letter and copy and paste the same thing.

Who said they were going to make a huge leap? I believe I said that I don't expect playoffs but do expect improvement.

Verse, on the other hand has doomed this off-season before it started. If you want to join that group that's fine with me but don't condemn me for your poor choices in life.

Benjamin Allbright says metadata shows CBS’ Jason La Canfora lied, stole photo

Posted by Andrew Bucholtz on Sep 19, 2016 19:12...

Allbright spoke to Awful Announcing Monday and said his issue isn’t about La Canfora taking the screenshot, but about what he views as La Canfora’s dishonesty.

“This isn’t the first time that I’ve caught La Canfora lying about something, it’s just the first time I have irrefutable proof of it,” he said. “I hate to mention this part because it seems self-aggrandizing, but I spent 15 years in the U.S. military, and part of the soldier’s creed is don’t lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate anyone who does. Before getting into this industry, one of the things I thought about journalism as a whole and even sports journalism was that there was honesty to hold people’s feet to the fire. The longer I’m in this industry, the more I find out just how many scumbags are in it, people out to make a name for themselves who absolutely will lie about anything to get that. I don’t have respect for people like that


http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/benjamin...tole-photo.html

j/c


I haven't seen too many articles written all season about Hue or anyone in the Browns Organization mention the need for another football mind in the front office. Anything I've ever read on this subject seems concocted by the media. And that all began with the likes or Grossi and Mary Kay saying things like the Browns NEED or SHOULD hire another football mind for the front office.

Here we are again asking for change. Why? Why not give things a chance? I have friends (and I've seen posts on this board) that already have decided that the front office is terrible and we need to add people who know what they are doing. How do you know they don't know what they're doing?

For those that are clamoring who is Sashi, what has he ever done to deserve this job? How can we have a non-football mind in charge? My question would be what has Sashi done that says he isn't and doesn't deserve to be GM? I get it, Haslam put him in charge and he doesn't know what he's doing (as far as that goes, I can't disagree). But what if he's stumbled upon the next Bill Polian? There are a lot of people who want to see Sashi displaced with a "football mind" in charge. They've already decided Sashi isn't the guy. How? Why? Well look at his draft!

My next question... and I've heard this on the radio, on this board, and from friends that the Browns draft was terrible. What players could the Browns have drafted instead of the ones they drafted that would have made this team better?

Wentz is the first name that is brought, yet those same people are the same ones who say if we had drafted him he would have gotten killed behind that line. Oh, that's because Sashi didn't keep Schwartz. They made an offer to Schwartz, one that actually paid him more than he accepted with KC. He declined the deal and the Browns moved on... The Browns should have franchised him! Oh heck no. Paying a right tackle left tackle money? No thanks. That doesn't set a good precedent.

Ogbah looks like a decent pick. Nassib seems promising. Kessler may not be a starter, but a solid back-up. Drango, Kindred, Devalve... And not drafted by the Browns but Hogan, Boddy-Calhoun, Vitale all contributed as rookies. Yes, we had a crazy amount of rookies this year gain invaluable experience. Some will work out, some won't. After one season on a very young team how do you know the draft was a bust and Sashi is clueless?

There are friends of mine that whenever I bring up the Browns losing I should blame the front office. The front office doesn't coach the team. The Browns were hit by some untimely injuries. I believe a few different moves here or there and the Browns could have won 3-4-5 games this season. At least. So I wouldn't peg it all on the front office.

I get the "Hue's a great coach because the players kept playing and we played hard and beat san diego!" I would say that's because he'd a great leader not necessarily a great coach. I admire Hue because the Browns would lose and he would go back to work to fix it. It almost seemed like he was pushing or coaching his players to do what he wanted rather than moving things around to make things work the way he felt they should in order to win a game. Not saying this is bad, but I certainly believe Hue and the Browns could have won more games. This notion seems clear to me because despite the injuries, Hue moved Erving to RT in the final game. The final game where it meant nothing. He stuck with Erving as his center until the final game when he moved to RT.

I think hue's leadership is why the players were drawn to him. They would lose, they'd be down in the dumps and there was Hue working hard to get his team a win. That was Hue's way of coaching. Many times I'd read why doesn't he put this guy here or that guy there? Hue held his course. And most said this was Hue's way of telling off the front office. "You gave me this player, so here you go!" This is what makes 1-15 so hard. This also should give hope to those who "don't like" Hue. He doesn't waiver. He was frustrated but calm all season. This might be his greatest attribute. This is the type of man who can lead men.

As for those who dislike the front office. There's nothing that can be said or done but give them time. No one here, I presume, knows what happens behind closed doors for the Browns. "There's turmoil but they put on a front." Jimmy really runs the show."

I think they drafted and signed quite a few promising young men. Sure they let go some talent. I'm sure in hindsight they wish they could have kept some of them. Not everyone is perfect, not every situation is perfect. However, I feel the Browns now have a nice nucleus to build around....

And despite what some might think, this team could add a few key players and have a nice season in 2017. I wouldn't expect another 1-15 or 3-13 season. Things are looking up. Enjoy it.

The Jason La Canfora Grudge With The Browns Is Past Old

http://www.dawgpoundnation.com/2015/03/24/the-jason-la-canfora-grudge-with-the-browns-is-past-old/

" just enough man. We get it. Lombardi is your friend. You think he got a raw deal in Cleveland. Got it. Message received. You don’t like Jimmy Haslam. Got it.

But running hatchet jobs and spin pieces, followed up by completely fabricated, bogus reports designed to create more problems for a franchise that’s had nothing but for 16 years? Move on with your life. It’s low, it’s a discredit to all journalists everywhere, and it’s borderline ridiculous that the editors at CBS are allowing this to go on.
"



What’s worse is that there are those who will read your nonsense, fans and media alike, and will actually believe it. That’s dangerous. It’s dangerous because professional media personnel should be better than to use the platform they’ve been given to try and settle personal vendettas. It’s dangerous because there are just enough people who are ready to believe any negative thing you print about the Browns who will eat it up as Gospel."

How does it reflect badly on Haslam to hedge his bets on the risky (IMO) gambit of going all-in with analytics for player eval by bringing in a <GASP!> knowledgeable football mind? If it doesn't reflect badly on Haslam, which is what I think, then how is this an attack by LaCanfora?

Because LaCanfora is making it appear to be dissension in the FO / Coaching.

As if that doesn't happen all the time, to some degree, in every NFL team's HQ. IMO, the story here isn't "dissension between the FO and coaching staff. The story here is Jimmy coming to his senses and realizing that no other team has used this model to rebuild, and that he needs to "tweak" things. Because that's what I think he needs to do, and apparently quite a few others here, and in the electronic and print media. Mary Kay has been reporting this for weeks, so its hardly a LaCanfora scoop. The story about the Browns returning to a more traditional model of player eval was heartening to me, because I have no faith in the current set up. It doesn't mean I can't be wrong, but AFAIK, its never worked before.

But it doesn't appear to be true unless you have a reliable source. A direct quote from Jimmy would be fine.

Does he plan to add to a more traditional football talent evaluator to the staff, as several national reports have said he'll do? The current triumvirate consists of Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown, Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta and Vice President of Player Personnel Andrew Berry. They have the No. 1 overall pick in April's draft and likely the No. 12 overall from the Eagles, and boatloads of cap space.

"We do not (plan to add anyone),'' he said. "If we do, it will be Sashi and Paul and AB's call, but we feel good about the people we've got in place."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/01/browns_jimmy_haslam_we_have_th.html

Ok, I think DD's post was pretty good. He answered Vers. questions pretty much without all the name calling and insults that some posters like to do, so I don't know how you can say otherwise. Whats in red: This makes no sense what-so-ever. We are now just going into our 2nd draft, armed with twice as many picks as before. To think we come out with no change is blind at best. We have a FA period to get through also.

Whats in yellow: To say Sashi does not have Football experience is misleading. He is going on his 2nd year now and has Berry and staff to lean on also.

It is clear Pit that you are following the school of Mac.
Which is Down with the ship at all costs.

Very nice post Device. I agree. I'm looking forward to next season, and hope that we will be better.

Based on all that was said by the coach and the FO, this is a bogus report.




Another example of this guy making stuff up to try to stir the pot.



Vers my friend....to answer you question. I don;t think you need any real qualifications other than you need to be able to talk a owner in to giving you a job. The fact that hundreds, if not thousands of "football: guys have failke at selecting players tells me it is pretty much luck of the draw. It doesn't take much skill in selecting football players, but it does take a wholke bunch of luck.


Just look at us.....Dwight was a football guy. Romeo, Savage, the tub of lard.....who else am I missing?

Thing is Dave, virtually all of those articles have been based on speculation and personal opinion. The only specific information that I can recall where there was some demonstrated ant sort of disagreement was when we signed Parkey. Apparently Tabor wanted someone else but was over ruled. But disagreement over what kicker to sign I think hardly supports the notion that there is dysfunction or that this set up will fail.

Vers and I talked a little about this a few weeks ago. To date there has not been a single article that I know of that chronicles what goes on behind closed doors. Nothing that shows us the decision making process or who sits at the head of the conference room table.

Whether we believe the plan will fail or succeed, no one can make that determination based on an actual understanding of that plan. It's not that any of us are stupid, we just haven't been given the needed information is all.

I don't know your feelings on the subject, but for me personally, when a journalist sites "sources speaking on condition of anonymity"... it doesn't in my mind add any nominal amount of credibility to the article. Be it sports or anything else. Too many journalists have hidden behind that as a way to write whatever they want without having to be challenged on it.

Unbelievable.

The post was dripping w/sarcasm, was insulting, was misleading and not factual, made fun of me for voicing an opinion on a football message board, and attempted to tell me how and what to post.

Yeah, great stuff.

It's crap like that that makes this board less enjoyable. It's always the same people. Over and over.

But hey..........look at the bright side. Instead of discussing the merits of the debate, we are talking about personalities. Mission accomplished, I guess.

I do agree. It's always the same guys over and over and over and over.

Blowback usually occurs when you make the first blow.

When you start with the claim that the coaches are doomed to be fired because Haslam didn't go along with your personal plan to fix the front office and then back it by support from La Canforna what are you expecting? When you asked why does Sashi have the right for the 6th time what were you expecting? You seem to make great efforts to rile people up just to act butt hurt once they react so you can play that "poor poor me" card. You are the guy that sues the zoo keeper for your lost fingers after poking the bear in the cage.

If you would like far less drama here it's probably possible if you take a long hard look at your part in it. I doubt you are up for it, but you could prove me wrong. Just remember that the blowback starts with the first blow.

You started w/me. I didn't call you out. I was just talking about my opinions on what the Browns were doing. I did NOT bash you. I wasn't bashing posters. I was expressing my opinion on a football message board.

Oh, the horror!!!! How dare someone express football opinions on a football message board. Well, then along comes the police in the name of Deputy Dawg and mocks my opinions, makes statements that aren't true, and tells me that I don't have the right to make opinions because I am not as qualified as Sashi. LMAO.............No kidding!!! I know I am not as qualified, but it's a message board and I was trying to talk football.

You were not talking football. Your sole intent was to discredit my opinion and silence me. I think you are Coach B. A friend of mine says no and he is smarter than me, but you so remind me of him. Full of hate, BS, and hot air.

I could care less if you like my opinions or not. I am going to continue to make them. I am going to stop responding to your BS, as advised by several posters in PMs....as they said, don't respond to the low-hanging fruit. Dude, your main supporter is Vambo. If that doesn't tell all........

There's that first blow again.

I don't even think that you realize that you do it.

That was probably a valid football opinion in your world.






I didn't have to scroll up far, it was in the same post.

Calling me Coach B is probably a insult too but since I don't know who that is , it's a weak one at best.

That's probably one of your brilliant "only football" posts as well.

Like I said, I didn't think you were capable of doing it.

First blow? LOL......

No you pulled Vambo in because that is how you make that valid football post that doesn't get blowback. You'll drop 3 or 4 more names here shortly.

I think that Haslam is making a mistake in not bringing in a football guy. I could be wrong, but that is simply my feeling on the matter.

I don't think Sashi has adequate experience in the football part of the equation to head the organization. I think his expertise is more on the business end.

I think that this year's draft was a disappointment. I think that the coaching staff is already starting to be blamed for the losses. I feel that they will take the fall should the losses continue. And considering the cheap nature of ownership and this FO, I don't see the Browns making a big splash in free agency.

Furthermore, w/out a sound football mind being added to the equation, I am afraid the FO will make similar mistakes as they did in last year's FA period and the draft.

we suck as a team. maybe in a few years we`ll argue about who is responsible for us turning this thing around..

i like to make fun of this team. Its kinda helpfull to the psyche.

i just seen singer on fallons spit while singing...oh my..

lets see if we draft well guys...

Holmgren and Farmer were football guys who helped run this place into the ground. I'm good on just any football guy.