DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Coaches to Push Owner Jimmy Haslam for Front Office Changes

Based on what? First three rounds played well. Drango, Kindred and BBC played well for late rounds. You cannot hit on every player, but if you can get the top 3 rounds to produce well then you are drafting good teams.

No, Vers is not hung up on the final say. Vers actually thinks some posters are pretending to understand the dynamics of how the football decisions are made. Vers thinks that none of you are in there w/the FO and not privy to the actual workings of the FO.

Vers also thinks that last year's first go around didn't work so well. They lost quality players in free agency; didn't sign any quality free agents; and had a disappointing draft other than Ogbah.

Vers is more about results than blind faith. Vers quit believing in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy long, long ago.

Forgot the NFL site , but our draft class was ranked like 27th .. The only player , playing to his draft position might be Oggy ! Once again , were are the play makers ???

Bummer Man

I saw that article and tried to think about the reasoning behind it and it made me stupid. I could not understand what logic he uses to justify any of those teams. For example, he makes no mention of Drango in our report, yet his good grades on PFF. He also has Chiefs ranked in the top 10 due to their rookie contributors.

This FO 1st draft class may not be as good as some people would have liked ,although we should give it more time, but the players we got still fill a need as supporting players. If our draft in 2017 brings us some impact players and we have some good FA signings then we will be on the right track. With the Browns it's a big if but we are due.

Tyreek Hill!

Tyreek has been amazing and their defensive lineman looks pretty solid. But I don't see how the production of two players can make you a top 10 team by rookie impact. From what I've read PFF has ranked Ogbah as the third most effective rookie pass rusher. Drango has been stout for us. I just don't see how we aren't even in the top half of league for rookie production. I really do have questions with that article.

I don't think it was a disaster either. A lot of rookie WRs but by next TC, the wheat should start to separate from the chaff at wideout.
Nassib needs to get stronger, Kessler will be a solid backup, but I don't know about Kindred - I have doubts about him. Vers usually has pretty good takes on players and I don't think he's high on him.
If a young player is gonna pan out, usually we start to know by midway through the second year.

Did anyone claim it was a disaster? Serious question.

I don't think so, I was merely echoing eotab's thoughts.

I try and be objective. I don't hate all the picks and I don't love all the picks.

I don't think the draft was a disaster. I would label it "disappointing."

I think Ogbah proved that he is going to be a good player. He had a solid year and he should improve.

The others are all question marks or worse at this point. That could change and they can improve dramatically, so I am not writing them off. I just don't see one true impact player from this draft. I mentioned Tyreeke Hill a bit ago. That dude is an impact player. Zeke is an impact player. Bosa is an impact player. Ramsey is an impact player. Etc...

Coleman is the guy I am most disappointed in. He flashed a game or two, but overall I was disappointed. And I am the poster who said he would be the first WR drafted.

I like his speed and his fight, but his route running is terrible. He doesn't come back to the ball. Instead, he rounds off his cuts and stays flat. Gannon pointed that out a couple of times in last week's game. His hands are also very questionable. He can make some nice snags, but he doesn't have consistent hands. He also did not break as many big plays as I thought he would. And he had Pryor on the other side of him which meant he was receiving one on one coverage. Hopefully, he'll blossom, but right now.......the word that comes to mind is "disappointing."

I don't always make note of who says what. I don't necessarily remember anyone using the term disaster. But the was some posts read, it's clear that there are more than a few who consider this past draft a disaster. Even if they don't come out and explicitly say so.

I disagree. I think that some posters exaggerate the points of those who are trying to be objective. That is, if you don't gush over the draft, you are said to think it is a disaster. LOL

Tyreek Hill also beat up his pregnant girlfriend.

As you noted , "I" never said disaster .. Disappointing from where I sit .. We drafted 13/14 players and got how many impact players ? Ogbah showed up from time to time . Will some come into their own in the next couple of years , Maybe .. I doubt it .. I everyone else , that is just my opinion and I'm sticking to it .. lol

I have a friend who tells me he's not happy with the draft either.

My question to him was who should we have drafted instead (he was not high on Wentz, but wanted Goff)? Is it the picks the Browns made you didn't like or is it the lack of great talent in this draft altogether?

How many high impact players are there in a draft?

How many rookies are not pro bowl players but become one later in their careers?

You could draft a player like Kam Wimbley who had 11 sacks his first season never to match that number again.

Or you could have a Danny Shelton who didn't look like he belonged in the NFL his first season turn into one of the top run stuffers in his second year.

I just simply don't think anyone can say with any conviction that this was not a good draft. Did the Browns miss out on some talent? Sure, who doesn't. 31 teams passed on Dak Prescott.

I read a post on here awhile back where someone speculated that this was a very safe draft for the Browns. They simply went out and built this team with FOOTBALL players. Everyone loves the game, but there are some who sleep, breath, live and die football and these are the guys they drafted. These are your Nassibs, Schoberts, Scoobys... Some will pan out and some won't, but none of them will quit trying. This is probably also Hue.

My friend never answered me with a very sure response... he just kept saying we're 1-15 and look at the talent. I'm sure one of you here might be him because I read this over and over on this board.

I don't think the regime set out to tear this down and start over to the extent some think. I believe they wanted Mack to stay, they wanted Schwartz to stay... maybe in hindsight they should have been more patient, but this is still a young regime who haven't even been here a year together.

I have a lot of faith in their ideas and football acumen. I wouldn't give up and insist on another person brought in. That's why this never works, there's change every year. You gotta let them see this through.

When the Lawyer, the Baseball bean counter and their unqualified "personnel" guy Berry arrived Sashi Clown and Haslam said there were three things they needed to focus on. The same three things as he said Monday. A season after saying they needes to resign there own yet for a 2nd or 3rd time under Haslam let a bunch of promising talent walk out the door.

Oh how I WISH he would have hired a football mind. Andrew Berry, you say? The guy was a scout for one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. That is NOT someone to bank on. But alaa, like "resigning our guys and veing active in free agency" it is what we are stuck with, Too Cheap Jimmy isn't going to pay more than he has to.

Disaster of a draft? I would say so. 14 draft picks. That's two years worth of draft volume that produced a bunch of backups and a poor mans Kam Wimbley. Despite having the pick of the litter. Despite needing a QB and passing on several, not even trying. 14 picks with nothing but a 1-15 season to show for it. I mean say what you will but the Steelers backups and 3rd stringers were able to beat all these bargain basement shopping draft picks.

You definitely can't call the last year progress or being on the right track. You can call it being off the rails, failing, a mess, dumpster fire or any other number of terms!

I guess all we, or I can do is wait until 2019 and hope after this regime pulls a Heckert(2nd worst GM in our history now that Sashi Clown has taken the throne) and wastes another 14 draft picks, four years draft volume that Haslam either finally brings in someone who knows how to build a team or the NFL realizes he is juat using the Browns as an easy cash cow and forces him to sell.

Well king of Kings just proved you wrong by coming out and frankly stating that this draft was a disaster

Just giving you a hard time there vers.

LOL

I already answered your questions and I sure as hell didn't say the evaluations were final. I clearly stated that things could change w/certain players.

I have no problem w/you disagreeing w/me, but please don't put words into my mouth and ask questions that I have already answered.

Have a good one.

I was very unimpressed with the Browns draft.
Browns fans are so easy to please when it comes to draft picks
they set the bar low on expectations
if a rookie DE accumalates a couple sacks he satisfies the masses
if a 4th rd qb becomes a promising backup qb whoa throw a party
this franchise NEEDS CORNERSTONES AND DIFFERENCE MAKERS FROM THE DRAFT.
solid football players get you 1-15 4-12 every year.
this team has made a tradition of drafting average players and solid players and absolute busts
this franchise has never drafted true elite football players other than
Joe Thomas since 1999.
Dallas drafts Elliot and Prescott meanwhile this team drafts Kessler and
Coleman
the Raiders draft Carr and Mack Cornerstones.players that bring immediate impact!
the Browns have never had a draft that laid the foundation for success since the return
every draft has been a colassial failure
I don't excited over the Nassibs and the Scooby Wrights and the Joe Schoberts in a draft
they are a dime a dozen players

http://www.draftseason.com/ds-nfl-rookie-roundup/

Passing Yards

1. Carson Wentz, Philadelphia Eagles – 3782
2. Dak Prescott, Dallas Cowboys – 3667
3. Cody Kessler, Cleveland Browns -1380
4. Jared Goff, LA Rams – 1089
5. Paxton Lynch, Denver Broncos – 497
6. Jacoby Brissett, New England Patriots – 400
6. Connor Cook, Oakland Raiders – 150
7. Trevone Boykin, Seattle Seahawks – 145
8. Tanner McEvoy WR, Seattle Seahawks – 43
9. Riley Dixon P, Denver Broncos – 16

Receptions

1. Michael Thomas WR, New Orleans Saints – 92
2. Sterling Shepard WR, New York Giants – 67
3. Tyler Boyd WR, Cincinnati Bengals – 54
4. Tyreek Hill WR, Kansas City Chiefs – 51
5. Tajae Sharpe WR, Tennessee Titans – 47
6. Will Fuller WR, Houston Texans – 47
7. Robby Anderson WR, New York Jets – 37
8. Hunter Henry TE, San Diego Chargers – 34
9. Corey Coleman WR, Cleveland Browns – 33
10. Ezekiel Elliott RB, Dallas Cowboys – 32

Receiving Yards

1. Michael Thomas WR, New Orleans Saints – 981
2. Sterling Shepard WR, New York Giants – 653
3. Will Fuller WR, Houston Texans – 611
4. Tyler Boyd WR, Cincinnati Bengals – 554
5. Tajae Sharpe WR, Tennessee Titans – 549
6. Tyreek Hill WR, Kansas City Chiefs – 526
7. Robby Anderson WR, New York Jets – 471
8. Hunter Henry TE, San Diego Chargers – 424
9. Malcolm Mitchell WR, New England Patriots – 401
10. Corey Coleman WR, Cleveland Browns – 373
Sacks

1. Joey Bosa OLB, San Diego Chargers – 9.5
2. Yannick Ngakoue DE, Jacksonville Jags – 8
3. Leonard Floyd OLB, Chicago Bears – 7
4. DeForest Buckner DE, San Francisco 49ers – 6
5. Emmanuel Ogbah DE, Cleveland Browns – 5.5
6. Noah Spence OLB, Tampa Bay Bucs – 5.5
7. Maliek Collins DT, Dallas Cowboys – 5
8. Sheldon Rankins DT, New Orleans Saints – 4
9. Jatavis Brown LB, San Diego Chargers – 3
10. Adolphus Washington DT, Buffalo Bills – 2.5

Interceptions
1. Artie Burns CB, Pittsburgh Steelers – 3
2. Deion Jones LB, Atlanta Falcons – 3
3. B. Boddy-Calhoun CB, Cleveland Browns – 3
4. Tavon Young CB, Baltimore Ravens – 2
5. Jalen Ramsey CB, Jacksonville Jaguars – 2
6. Cre’Von LeBlanc CB, Chicago Bears – 2
7. James Bradberry CB, Carolina Panthers – 2
8. Karl Joseph S, Oakland Raiders – 1
9. Blake Martinez LB, Green Bay Packers – 1
10. Su’a Cravens LB, Washington Redskins – 1

What is the point of your post other than to affirm my point of our draft being "disappointing?"

I do try and be objective. And who are the people who said this draft was a disaster?

IMO this draft was decent. We got some good players who I feel will get better with time and benefit with better talent around them. That is why we have to draft impact players in "17. No more trade downs. If we can sign 2 or 3 good players in FA with a good draft we will be much better next season. Maybe we can even win the 1st game.

All you can do is laugh..,

Impact players can only be selected at our current draft position.

I can objectively state that I am the most objective person here and all of the rest of you and your subjective opinions will not change my mind.

Corey Coleman had 41 yards per game while playing 10 games. Assuming that he got the exact yards as his average for the 6 games he didn't play (with a broken hand) he would be ranked the 3rd best rookie receiver with 659 yards.

Michael Thomas is still dwarfing Coleman but he does have Drew Brees throwing him the ball, so I tend to believe his numbers are slightly inflated.

Is this bad production from a rookie receiver? Do you think the could be a 1,000+ yard receiver, if this offseason, he learns how to run better routes?

I personally think this is a pretty decent start was a WR and he can improve greatly in year 2 to become a stud.

wrong thread

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...amp;draft_pos=p

The above link is every rookies wide receiver season since 1999 (sorted by yards per game). Corey Coleman is 85th.

85th. Out of 930, according to your link.

I noticed Wes Welker was listed at 883rd.

tab, here is my actual quote about the plan being dumb:



Kinda clarifies things, doesn't it?

I thought the firings would start next year, but they've begun already. The Browns suck!

Oh, and those guys I was fighting with. They were telling me I was wrong about coaches getting fired. LOL......they never learn.

Not saying you are wrong about the coaches getting fired but I look around the NFL and teams that are struggling, the Jags the Bill the Rams and the 49ers that have already fired thier coaches. It seems to me the coaches are always the ones to take the arrows first. My question is I guess what makes the Browns so different than these other teams just because the coaching staff is the first to get the axe. Of course we have a long drought of losing but that has spanned under different owners.