DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Garoppolo Part Three

Never even thought of pick swap. Just me, but I wouldn't give up either first. I'd sign Tyrod. Garret first. A qb if one fell to 12 we like.
But as I typed that, it just sounds depressing. But I can't give a first for him. 33 plus a little more is it for me. I've read compelling argument each way. But myself..... hell I'll probably change my mind by then lol

12 for 32 and Jimmy G?

Sure I'd probably do that. But i think 33 plus some next year is "enough"

I'm super confident in getting Jimmy and what I think he can do here.

But I'm also trying to maximize our side of the trade.

The best negotiations are when both sides leave thinking they got screwed.

I'll be ecstatic to finally have a QB here that will allow us to not have to even think about needing one the following year.

Hopefully we can pull this off without using 12.

I'll tell you who I WOULD listen to intently on this. Shanahan. He's got Ryan for that high power offense and he liked Carr and Garoppolo coming out? That could be 3 for 3. Lol.

Offensive Line wise, we DID address it last year. Twice. And a QB with quick decision making ability along with a text book rapid release and good arm helps. We haven't had a QB like that in like FOREVER.

if we draft a center and a RT in the 2nd and third rounds that should fix the o-line.

I have no idea where we are drafting next year but I know THIS year at 12 we can get some mighty fine talent. I'd rather offer up next year's first before touching a pick this year. I mean they almost can't screw up drafting this year so protect this year's draft first IF they can.

I mean if we draft Garrett, Cam, and pick up Jimmy G. that is a radical change for the huge benefit of our team for a long time to come. I even think we could look at an 8-8 season.

I have no problem giving up 33 for JG, but what if....

we do that .

Draft Garett at #1

THEN offer our 12 and JG to the Niners for #2 and take Trub?

( Obviously, I prefer him over JG).

Just a pipe dream

'The Browns will pursue Jimmy Garoppolo and have the picks to pull it off'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on February 03, 2017 at 8:25 PM, updated February 03, 2017 at 9:16 PM

HOUSTON -- The Browns will try to acquire Jimmy Garoppolo in a trade with the Patriots, as multiple sources have told cleveland.com, and they have the ammunition to pull it off.

They have the first and 12th picks in the first round, and the first and 20th of the second round. All told, they have five picks in the first 65.

In a perfect world, they'd keep both of their first-round picks, but that might not be possible. Multiple teams are expected to pursue Garoppolo, which could drive up the price.

The Patriots are looking to start the bidding at first- and fourth-round picks, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Garoppolo is also the Bears' No. 1 off-season priority, according to Jason LaCanfora of CBS Sports. He said Chicago might "engage in talks on Garoppolo at the combine later this month, or sooner if need be." The Bears have the No. 3 pick in the first round and No. 36 overall in the second.

In addition, Kyle Shanahan, who's set to become head coach of the 49ers after the Super Bowl, could express interest, and the 49ers have the No. 2 and No. 34 picks.

Shanahan admitted this week that he really liked Garoppolo coming out of the draft in 2014, and the second-rounder appreciated it.

"It's an honor,'' he said. "Obviously he's a tremendous coach, and has done a tremendous job with that offense.''

Garoppolo said he enjoyed spending time with Shanahan and then-Browns quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains in the run-up to the draft. Loggains is now the Bears' offensive coordinator.

"They came to work me out at Northwestern (near his hometown of Arlington Heights, Ill.) and then we went to dinner,'' Garoppolo said. "They also brought me in to Cleveland for a visit. It was a busy couple of months.''

Garoppolo also has ties to Bears GM Ryan Pace, a fellow Eastern Illinois football alum. This summer, during joint practices between the Bears and Patriots, Garoppolo spent 15 minutes talking to Pace.

"It was just a couple of Eastern guys hanging out," Garoppolo told the Chicago Tribune this week. "There are not many Eastern Illinois guys (in the NFL), so it's a small group and we like to stick together."

On Thursday, Garoppolo admitted he's heard rumors of the Bears' interest 'but I'm trying to stay as focused as possible. There have been a lot of things going on -- rumors -- but that's all they are is rumors, right now.''

Would he like to be back home near Chicago?

"It's not really my call,'' he said. "We'll see what happens.''

He said he hasn't approached the Patriots about all the rumors.

"No, not really,'' he said. "We're focused on the Falcons. You know how it goes in our building. It's kind of the culture that's been built there. Just focused on winning. That's all we can do."

Garoppolo appreciated Bill Belichick saying in November that it was a seamless transition from the suspended Tom Brady to Garoppolo for the first two games of this season. Garoppolo went 2-0 before spraining his shoulder.

"Anytime you get a compliment in our organization it's always a good thing,'' he said. "They're tough to come by, but that's your job as a backup. You want to make it as seamless as possible.''

Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniel praised Garoppolo Thursday.

"He's had a great person to learn from in Tommy (Brady)," he said. "That's the thing I love the most about him - he's eager to learn, he's eager to work hard. He's learned how to be a professional over the first three years and he's seen somebody else do it a certain way. It's a pleasure to coach guys like that.''

Is he ready to take over a team?

"I'm hoping I get to coach him as long as I can,'' said McDaniels.

The Browns will try to make sure that's only one more game.

Wow. It seems that the Browns are actually thinking about making the trade. That's great news. Almost too good to be true.

I figured you'd like that article!

LOL..............the bad part is that it seems like SF and Chicago also are interested.

I am happy that our FO is trying, though.

I love those guys.

I keep having Warfield/Phipps flashbacks *Shudder*

Why? I thought that was a terrible trade for the Browns.

It was, and I shudder at the thought of being screwed over by Bill. I am not saying trading for Garoppolo would be a good or a bad thing, the though of it just gives me the same willies I got when we traded Warfield for Phipps.

Said it before I'll say it again....Anyone who gives up a 1st round pick for Jimmy G is a fool. Anyone.

I really doubt Frisco or Chicago will give 2 or 3 for Garoppolo.

Hopefully they both have backup plans in Watson and Trubisky and therefore only offer Second Rounders of which we can TRUMP easily without using the #1 pick. There's zero chance we offer the #1 pick. I hope so anyway.

Offer a package. If it's beaten. Squash it with #12.

As much as SOME people around here can't comprehend that pick is EXTRA just by answering the damn phone. It's extra nonetheless.

USE It if it comes to that.

It blows my mind that so many can't comprehend exactly how important this is.

Thank God Hue realizes how important this is.

Bro, Warfield was already in the NFL and Phipps was in college. This time, Jimmy G is in the NFL and the draft pick is still in college.

There really is no comparison.

mac, you are a very angry man.

What does one injury prove? That is fragile? Injury prone?

And mac, you can't put a price on getting a franchise QB. You blast Haslam for not spending money, yet now you are saying the trade would be too expensive. Which is it, mac?

You might be happy w/watching crappy QB play while the Browns continue to lose every year, but I want a real qb here in Cleveland and I think Jimmy G is that man.

If you don't think he has what it takes.......I can respect that opinion. However, calling him injury prone and saying he is too expensive are simply not fair.

Clearly the quality of the game is different, but it doesn't make it irrelevant to the conversation.

When you use words like "fragile" and "injury prone", you're using words that imply there is a trend. Not to get all analytics on you, but you can't imply that there is a trend without the quantitative data to demonstrate that trend.

One, as you yourself described it, "seemingly routine play" alone does not qualify as enough data to justify your implications.

Now I'd agree (to a point) that there is a risk of injury behind our O-line, but that would apply to whomever the QB is but you simply don't have enough evidence to show that JG would be any more susceptible than anyone else back there.

I have a feeling though that if he had any kind of injury history at E. Illinois that you'd have found it relevant.

On the money!

Jimmy G was a late 2nd round pick 3 years ago. He has basically played in 2 games. For the Patriots. Who made Matt Cassel look like an All-Pro. Trade for him if you have confidence he MIGHT turn out to be a good QB. But not a 1st round pick. Personally, I'd take Garrett with the 1st pick and the best remaining DB with 12. But if you're determined that you need a QB with a first round pick take #12 and pick the highest rated one still on the board. Bill Belichick is not going to trade a player that could be a franchise QB to anyone. He holds on to him and trades or benches Brady after next year if he has to pay Jimmy G starting QB money to keep him. If you think Bill Belichick is a genius, and most of you do, then you cannot think he'd let Jimmy G go if he thinks he could be the one to lead his team into the future. And if he's not good enough for Bill why is he good enough for us?

Some of us think Jimmy G is a better QB than any qb in the draft.

BB would get rid of Jimmy G because Brady is showing no signs of slowing down and has said he wants to play until he is 45. Also, Jimmy G would become a FA next year and the Pats would lose him to another team, so the thinking is to get as much in return for him as you can.

Understood.

But I care to recall that trade in the context of the subsequent Phipps trade which landed us a pretty good TE.

Incidentally, my first color wall poster in my boyhood room was a Phipps poster - Xmas gift from Dad. Therefore I have a special place in my heart......

Perhaps this explains some of my Browns-based psychological problems later in life.

In order to believe Belichick is only willing to trade Garoppolo if he doesn't think he's worth keeping, you would have to believe that NE would be willing to invest over $40M in their QB position if they want to keep him. IE, the franchise tag, which would put JG's salary somewhere around $20M/yr while Brady makes $20.5M per year on avg. Unless you think BB could get away with the "diminished skills" thing again, and cut Brady after next year. I don't think that would fly because it looks to me like Brady is actually getting better as time goes by. He could easily play another 3-4 years, whereas BB will have almost no leverage in getting anything in return for JG after this year.

So I read mac's post, albeit quickly because he tends to get long winded - no offense mac.

I may have missed it, but I don't see where he calls JG fragile. I do see where he asks the question and explains why he asks the question. He explains his concerns. I think the question we need to get an immediate answer to is, has he recovered from the injury. Do e know the extent of the injury? Do we know how well he recovered? Mac stated he threw only 4 passes post injury. If that is true we need to look closely at those 4 passes. I don't remember them. Were they in the same game or another game?

I agree with you DD that one injury is not enough to call someone injury prone. I certainly may have missed it, but I don't recall mac calling him injury prone. He did refer to injury history. We all have an injury history. Even if it is just a twisted ankle playing 8th grade basketball. We should be aware of and evaluate his injury history, whether extensive or not.

I think these are questions we should ask about any player that we thinking about acquiring. I get mac's point. I think it gets misconstrued because he is so aggressive about making it. Mac can clarify this, but I get the impression that he his concern isn't just JG but more our oline and the risk we put any Qb at.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that we have some insider trading information about JG that other teams do not have. We have Jamie Collins. He can tell us how JG recovered from the shoulder injury. He can tell us how much of a leader JG is or if there are any concerns with his personality or work ethic or ability to read a defense etc.

Good point.

Can we walk and chew gum at the same time? Is there any reason to believe we will not attempt to improve the OL whether we get JG or not? Besides that, if you watched any of the JG videos on earlier threads, the one thing that should jump out at you besides arm talent, is that he processes information quickly in the pocket and he gets the ball out very quickly - his release is Marino-like. I can't prove it but IMO the Browns would have had significantly less sacks last year had JG been at QB instead of our motley crew.

You are all assuming that Belichick keeps both QB's. I'm saying Bill is noted for getting rid of a player a year too early rather than a year too late. So my assumption is that IF he felt JG was "all that and a can of beer" he wouldn't trade him he'd keep him and demote or ("gasp")trade Brady just because he's at the edge of going downhill. Therefore, if he is willing to trade JG he's not all you guys think he is. He's just another guy. However, if you go with the assumption that JG is going to become someone's "guy" for the next 10 years then you trade for him but given the limited database on his skills I'd never give more than a 2nd this year and maybe a 3rd next year dependent on playing time.

I think getting rid of Brady would make the Kosar fiasco here look like a fart in a blizzard in New England, PR-wise. This is not Peyton Manning at the end of his career, unable to even throw the ball across the street any more. Brady is at his peak, and by all accounts in great condition. I have said I'd be willing to trade the #33 pick this year and whatever 4th rounder they want. If BB plays hardball and insists on #12, I still do it, although reluctantly.

We can do both, but no matter how good our oline is, your Qb is going to get hit throughout the year.

I don't know how fast his release and decision making are but I am sure that "Marino-like" is hyperbole. I will give you that a Qb that makes fast decisions and gets the ball out quickly will help the oline. As will a Qb that can recognize a blitz.

Funny but accurate blizzard reference.

The thing you left out was that the Colts were set to draft Andrew Luck. The highest rated Qb prospect to come out in the past 10 years. Maybe 20.

Thanks for the reply and you bring up many good points that I'd agree with. Just above mac wrote:

"Is Jimg a fragile QB?...the Patriots are not willing to take that risk, but the next team Jimg plays on will accept the risk that goes along with the deal. The next team Jimg plays for will have to accept the risk that jg's throwing shoulder will not be a long term issue."

I find that there is a clear difference between wondering if JG is 100% since the injury vs. questioning his overall ability to stay healthy, which I believe he does when asking if he is fragile.

Clearly mac doesn't feel our O-line is up to snuff. I beg to differ, but if I concede that point to him, I can also say that ANY QB we put back there would be susceptible to getting hurt. I don't think there's anyway that anyone could say that even if we had a big dude like Wentz back there that he would be less susceptible to injury given those conditions.

I guess maybe I have a different definition of what constitutes "injury prone". Injury prone to me is someone who gets injured form things that most others don't and/or they are susceptible to non-contact injuries like RG3 as been on an occasion or two.

Kessler gets knocked for being "injury prone" after 2 concussions. IIRC, one concussion came after being on the receiving end of a forearm shiver from a 300lb man, and the other was a head to head shot, again from a near 300 lb man. Not many people would be able to take direct blows to the head like that and not get concussed.

Again, I agree that wondering if JG is fully healed form his shoulder injury is a legit question. I don't think anyone would disagree with that and it along with any other injuries would be part of the Browns due diligence.

I think it's amazing that people would rather take a rookie at #12 than trade it for Jimmy G because he's "unproven"

Very interesting take on this!

Injury prone is one of those subjective terms. I think it can be defined in multiple different ways. And herein lies the problem when we use that term in discussions.

I do like the way you define it. But can see validity in some other definitions as well.

Agree. Any player we pick at #12 is going to be unproven.
Not worth #12 because of talent is subjective but valid.
Not worth #12 because he is unproven is objective but not a valid reason.

As the Browns and others wait, Jimmy Garoppolo focuses on preparing for possibly his last game with Patriots

Feb 3, 2017

Tony Grossi
ESPN Cleveland

HOUSTON -- Meet Jimmy G: A foreign journalist with a Fox microphone asks Jimmy Garoppolo to speak Italian to his grandparents back in their home country, and the New England Patriots backup quarterback complies with a few halting words.

“That’s about all I know,” he apologizes with a chuckle.

Moments later he is asked to take a selfie, and he obliges, not realizing the protocol just broken by an alleged credentialed media member.

“No problem,” he says, then returns attention to the gaggle of questioners pursuing him like zone-blitzers, coming from all angles, trying to disrupt his vision of his task at hand.

Welcome to Jimmy G’s world.

He might be the most famous backup quarterback in Super Bowl history, certainly the most famous understudy to Tom Brady since Brady started collecting championship game appearances 16 years ago.

Garoppolo is a minor story on the Patriots’ pursuit of a fifth Super Bowl championship for coach Bill Belichick and Brady -- except for the fact he is one play away from becoming THE story of Super Bowl LI against the Atlanta Falcons.

But for now, Garoppolo is more compelling to followers of the Browns or other poor NFL mopes in dire need of a quarterback to transcend them from their doldrums, such as the Bears, or 49ers, or Jets, or Bills.

Because Brady seems ageless, even at 39, and has publicly declared a desire to play well into his 40s, and because Garoppolo will be entering the final year of his rookie contract in 2017, and because Belichick is so proactive that he drafted the next Brady heir last year in Jacoby Brissett, it is a safe bet that Belichick will opt to trade Garoppolo when he gets on to the business of steering the Patriots to future Super Bowls after this one.

And because the Browns have more draft assets than any team, Garoppolo, a native of Arlington Heights, IL, who starred at Div. II Eastern Illinois before settling in as Brady’s backup, has been deluged with questions about his future.

“It’s not really my call,” he says, denying he has even broached the matter with anyone on the team. “We’re focused on the Falcons. You know how it goes in our building. It’s kind of the culture that’s been built there. Just focused on winning. That’s all we can do.”

Learning the Patriot Way: Garoppolo has been impenetrable on this subject, further evidence that he has used his time behind Brady wisely, taking to heart even the simplest facet of the Patriot Way.

“He’s had a great person to learn from in Tommy,” says Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. “I know he tries to take as much as he can to try to make himself better. That’s the thing I love the most about him – he’s eager to learn, he’s eager to work hard. He’s learned how to be a professional over the first three years and he’s seen somebody else do it a certain way. It’s a pleasure to coach guys like that.

“I’m hoping I get to coach him as long as I can.”

Garoppolo is completing his third NFL season since being drafted 62nd overall – the third-last player of the second round. Quarterbacks Blake Bortles (third overall), Johnny Manziel (22nd), Teddy Bridgewater (32nd), and Derek Carr (36th) were taken ahead of him. All have more career starts than Garoppolo’s two; Manziel’s fleeting career already has extinguished.

Atlanta offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, who scouted and worked out all those QBs for the Browns at the time, said this week he had Carr and Garoppolo ranked at the top of his list.

“He was a very good thrower, tough guy, kept his eyes down the field, could get rid of the ball fast,” Shanahan said. “I really liked the person, the individual. Went out to dinner with him. Played at Eastern Illinois and was in a different type of offense where you can’t always evaluate how quick they get rid of the ball. But I really thought he was a very intelligent, tough player with a good throwing motion.”

Garoppolo’s throwing motion, particularly his quick release of the ball, is largely considered his greatest asset mechanically. Garoppolo disclosed his was the product of hard work, not a natural ability. He credits his personal offseason coach, former Browns strike replacement quarterback Jeff Christensen, with changing his career when he first met him after his junior year in high school.

“I was a pitcher growing up, so I had this long, extended release when I first became a quarterback,” Garoppolo said. “[Christensen] met me my junior year going into my senior year. He gave me his card. I didn’t think much of it at the time. He said, ‘You’re a great player. I can make you better.’ I trusted him. We spent one summer of him filming me, changing my release, and now it is what it is. He’s a big picture-taker, film guy. Once I saw it, I said, ‘Holy cow, that’s terrible.’ He changed it completely.”

(To this day, Brady constantly works on his mechanics between seasons with his own personal coach, the noted QB guru Tom House.)

“Everything with a quarterback is getting the ball out on time, being accurate with it,” Garoppolo says. “The faster you can get it out of your hands to the receiver, the more room they’ll have [to make a play].”

His time is near: After waiting behind Brady his first two years, playing only in preseason, Garoppolo got his chance at the start of this season when Brady served a four-game suspension because of Deflategate.

He beat the Arizona Cardinals in the first one, throwing for 264 yards and one touchdown, and then had a big day going in Game 2 against Miami (232 yards, three touchdowns in the first half) until he suffered a sprained AC joint in his right shoulder when Dolphins linebacker Kiko Alonso chased him down and landed squarely on Garoppolo’s right shoulder as the two of them crashed to the ground.

It ended Garoppolo’s playing time for the season at six quarters total and raised concerns about his durability. Two starts, one injury.

“It was the only time [I’ve been injured],” he said. “You go through your whole career and take however many hits you take and then one freak accident like that happens. That’s football. I’ve taken hits like that a ton of times in my career. Everything happens for a reason, so ....”

That’s the same thought process Garoppolo uses to rationalize being Brady’s backup with New England – as opposed to playing right away with another team, as did Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr and just last year, Carson Wentz and Dak Prescott.

“It worked out pretty well. Got a Super Bowl ring – maybe two -- and things have been really good,” he said.

But don’t think Garoppolo is satisfied with playing caddy as long as possible and collecting more hardware.

He was lightly recruited out of high school and received no big-school scholarship offers, not even from nearby Big Ten football wannabe Northwestern. The little interest he got from major schools was an invitation to walk on.

“I didn’t want to do that and be the 7th string quarterback. Eastern had a great opportunity to play. Their quarterback just graduated. I fell in love with the coaching staff. They were real honest with me, and we went from there,” he said.

So now he is here, at the Super Bowl. But where will he be in a few months? And is he ready to take the next step in his career and be the man?

“Jimmy’s still a young player,” said Patriots receiver Chris Hogan. “And the opportunity that he has to be behind Tom Brady and learn from him and Josh is an invaluable experience that he’s going to remember for probably the rest of his career. He stepped in when his number was called and played really well for us. I think he’s learned a lot from being here and playing behind Tom.

“Jimmy’s a good quarterback. I think he’ll have a great career.”


http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/...e-with-patriots

how do you quantify a routine play in the nfl ( or anywhere for that matter)?

I know a QB that blew out his knee so bad in a routine non contact drill, that it could end his career. Any player at anytime is at risk for a career ender, so the level of competition notwithstanding, one injury does not make one injury prone.

JMHO

I was listening to a sports talk show and they asked whomever they were interviewing where JG will end up if traded. He said Chicago. He said I know people are saying the Browns but I would think that JG would try to avoid coming here if possible because of our situation with the o-line and our QB's being hurt like they were. JG would probably instruct his agent to say he'll go anywhere but the Browns. It's just conjecture but I thought I would mention what I had heard.