DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

I don't really blame the team for revising the offer, but I also think that at this point we have to understand that we need to pay a little more for proven talent than a consistent winner. I'd have thought about pulling the offer but at the end of the day would have just been happy to have a solid RT for a few more years so I could focus on other areas.

So why was there not more than one team bidding for his services and for less than what the Browns offered him?

I don't know the answer, and I don't know that it really matters. Maybe other teams offered him slightly more or similar money but he didn't see that place as a team he wanted to go to.

You're not saying he's not better than average, are you?

In the end, why are we still debating this?




Time to move on. This is last years news being pushed around.

Merely for the hell of it.

Did what he received reflect better than average?

No biggie lamp .. as the menZas say ...

- he turned down our initial offer ... who the hell does he think he is ... were the CLEVELAND BROWNS afterall .... pffft ... WE'LL SHOW HIM ...

- we moved on ... forget the play at the position last year .. thats OLD HISTORY ... and besides ... MAYBE Coleman will be GOOD ... problem solved ..

- we sure showed him ... his team wouldn't have won the division if it wasn't for carr getting hurt ... and they couldn't even make it to the AFC Championship game ...

HA .... we clearly won that one ... ..

Some folks have a REAL PROBLEM with complex math like ...

1 + 1 = 2 .....

Look at what there defending bro ... its DEFENSELESS ...

Schwartz was a good young PROVEN player ... its not like we could use any of them ...

Browns offer more he signs for less complex math his agent won that one for his client.

My only point is we don't know all the reasons we lost him. I didn't like it either. We did, no doubt, but I seriously doubt we did because of pride.

And Browns LOSE by his going elsewhere when he could have stayed.
Bottom line.

Everybody loses when people get greedy.

The Browns made him a more that fair offer supposedly he wanted to stay GREED steps in they all lose!

Let me ask you this because of how much they sucked this season and getting the #1 pick and the Brown end up getting their Franchise QB.

Would you trade Schwartz for a franchise QB?

Dude ... what r u doing .. you'd have a better outcome banging your ahead against the wall .. like Forest said ... well .. we all know what Mr. Gump said ...

Waste of time bro ... like singing to the deaf ..

Why is that even important? You are putting mud in the water and moving away from the heart of the debate.

Lol, diam
Singing to the deaf, good one! Gonna use that occasionally if you don't mind.

I'm not sure whats ambiguous about this ... its pretty simple bro ...

- we made Schwartz an offer ...

- he tested the FA waters ...

- he came back to sign the contract we initially offered him ...

- we said that offers no longer available ...

I don't need to know no more ... when he comes back to sign the initial contract .... the proper reply is ... LET ME GET THE PEN ....

Even if he says ... hey .. i got x-amount more guaranteed over there ... can u do that .... the proper reply .... YUPPERS ...

What else do u need to know ....

He was a good, young, proven player ... teams with HOLES EVERYWHERE probably shouldn't let them walk when they want to sign a contract that was on the table a week or two ago ...

Thats just NOT SMART ....

And look where we are now ... if we re-signed Schwartz ... we'd have been a better OL last year and would not be talking about weather Coleman MIGHT BE GOOD ....

Again ... not sure what else u need to know or where the ambiguity is in the situation ...

Your on the same side as the menZas that think we somehow came out ahead in this ...what world does not having a good young RT somehow become a good thing ... sorry bro ... not sure how much harder the hammer has to hit u in the head on this one ...

Its all yours ... once you've ACTUALLY STOPPED SIGNING TO THEM!!!!

*LOL* ...

Hence the thread title, the debate is whether or not the front office screwed up.

I don't believe they did.

Until we start winning you're going to have to expect this sort of thing. Players are going to leave because they want out.

At 15-1 and we offer to make our RT the second highest paid at his position, do you think he says, "oh hey, I bet I can make more somewhere else, but I'll be back if I don't. I'll let you know in a couple months."


...

True why would you debate on a message board?

Be kind of boring if you always agreed!

plagiarize

Some can't debate so they chose to belittle posters.

and he could have stayed easy enough if he just signed the original contract as well.

Diam, Diam, Diam lol Hi bro...

just reading some of the thread and I know was not asked, but thought I would chime in if I may?

Ballpeen said he didn't like it either (losing Schwartz).

I don't see anywhere, where he said he thought we came out on "top".

just that he doesn't think we pulled the offer because of pride.

ps. I love bullet points. shows organizational skills.

- we did offer a fair contract to Schwartz
- he did not sign said contract
- he or his agent decided to say no, we want to see what's out there
- they decided they did not like what the other fellas were offering
- came back and said "yea I'll sign now, cuz the other fellas won't pay me as good as you will".
- we said sorry bro offer is no good now
- he left and signed with another team

Now should we have stayed with the original contract? that is the real debate I guess if there is one at all.

if we thought he could better the team, then yea sign the lil bugger. if we thought he doesn't fit the new scheme we will be running then maybe not so much.

did we pull the offer cuz we were butt hurt? Idk, but doubt it very much.

there is most likely more to this story then any one of us on this board may ever know.

would he have brought us from the middle of the pack O-lines in the league to the top ten in the league? idk maybe

and then again maybe he was the first O-line guy we lost for the season with a blown ACL...

Idk the answers bro, but doubt we lost him over pride...

one thing I do know is, that he is gone and that is that. So I moved on lol

Hi 101 .... hope things are good sir ...

Bro .... no need to ever wait til your asked ... chime in anytime ... some should have their keyboards taken away for lack of football knowledge and/or perspective ... your not one of them ... .....

I'm way over it bro ... this is about guys that want to defend the FO for something that hurt this football team and was in their control ... its not defensible ... its just as bad as the posters that want to rip the FO for Mack, Gipson or Benji ... neither position is based anywhere near reality ...

Schwartz is a good young football player ... we need them bro ... the FO made a mistake ... it happens ... but it doesn't change the fact they made a mistake ...

Now ... its irrelivent ... hes gone ... its on to WIN ... Whats Important Now .... and that would be finding a suitable RT ...

I'd be interested to see that stats on how long our QBs held the ball.

I think we know, without looking at the #s, that our QBs for whatever reasons held on to the ball too long.

...and due also in part, to our putrid defense which had us playing from behind more often than not.

A factor, as well.

Yes, those numbers don't necessarily mean the O-line was historically bad...

What you consider "good business" cost us one of the best RT's in the NFL.

This isn't buying a used car or truck.

Schwartz failed because he lost out on more money. The Browns failed because they lost out on a very good player.

And we got a good opportunity to find a replacement for Joe and play him on the right side for now.

Stop talking stupid. Joe Thomas will play forever.

MAC, you a legend, and the way you type you must have been in the room when they made the decisions...was there screaming, any tears, please give all us other posters your inside knowledge....the whole truth and nothing but the truth, cuz you were in the room...thru your eyes and bias.

MY Facts- Our former RT didn't sign our offer, tested market, found out his "real" worth, came back and ASSUMED our original offer was still good, it wasn't- mistake or not, he showed NO loyalty to Cleveland, organization, teammates, etc., and left for less money- reportedly. JMHO, want to is important, he didn't want to be in Cleveland....OK, see ya

Our line sucked last year, JMHO, worst was center and all injuries....don't blame everything on RT....GO Browns!!!

Did the FO fail at not re-signing Mack and pushing Erving out to RT sooner?

j/c



There's the issue right there. How'd it work out? It was a stupid, ego driven move. FO outsmarted themselves. Schwartz wasn't hurt by it. The only ones boned were the fans, the team, the FO's credibility, and the QBs who kept getting hammered. This was never anything but an ego move. All the FO had to do is sign him. If they didn't like the offer they made in the first place, they shouldn't have made it. When their feelings got hurt, they pulled it. Revised market value, my butt.

The revised market value argument works great if you're talking about a car. We're not.

We're talking about a person that has an ego and personality and feelings... and don't even get me started on the agents. You have to work with these guys. I'm not saying you treat pros like babies, but you have to work with the agents again and again, and the pool of players is small, and people talk.

Also, we're talking about one of the better young guys at his position. If it was a fringe guy, then yeah, you can save a couple pennies.

I do agree with the people saying that it's old news. Believe it or not, I'm not super worked up over the whole thing anymore, but I do enjoy the discussion.

So, up until that point the hype heading in to FA was that a top RT would be able to command upwards of $10-12 million/year. The Browns offered what, $7 million and change?

I see a lot of assumptions that the FO had it's feelings hurt because Schwartz and his agent wanted to see what other teams might offer.

I also see what appears to be an assumption that his agent declined the Browns offer and was polite about and was purely acting in Schwartz's best interest and meant no hard feelings.

If we re going to assume those "facts", then why can't we assume that when given the offer sheet of $7 million by the Browns, Schwartz's agent felt disrespected by such
a ridiculously low offer, dismissed it out of hand, and told the FO to go pound sand feeling confident that someone was going to sign Schwartz for a lot more.

After throwing their offer back in their face, now he sees that no one in their right mind was going to pay a RT anywhere close to $10-12 mil/yr.

Now I don't know if Schwartz would be such an a-hole, but his agent isn't going to turn anything down if he doesn't sign off on the decision.

Since we're all making factual assumptions...

+1