DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Anybody hope we lose out?!?!?!

No quitting, period.

No matter where we draft, someone will be there to make a difference. There ALWAYS is. Heck, you can find a stud in the 3rd round. Plus, I think its easier to trade mid to late top ten picks than anything up top. And we should be trading down no matter what, again. We need more day one picks.

Who really cares?
We will,again,finish 0-fer in the division.With 2 embarrasing defeats already,and one more waiting to happen,what's the difference?

Can he play OL or DL?

well, he's a left offensive tackle, but it's still an unknown if he can hang at the professional level.

I dont think SOS has anything to do with the draft. I think if 2 or more teams have the same record, it goes by the opponents that you beat, winning percentage.

Say that the Browns and Houston have the same schedual. The Browns win 2 games and they beat Indy and San Diego. Those 2 teams have a high winning percentage. Houston beats Oakland and Detroit who have a very low winning percentage. Houston would pick first. If the 'opponents winning percentage' of the teams that they beat were the same, then it goes to a coin toss. Like Cleveland and Atlanta has done twice in the pass, with the Browns winning both coin tosses. Head to head matchups during the season also has nothing to do with where you pick in the draft,for teams with the same record, like it does for the playoffs.

<img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> My bad. The eyes saw Joe Thomas but the brain was thinking of Adrian Peterson. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I'll take anyone that is GOOD at OL and DL (in alternating rounds). <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Sounds bassackwards to me, cause we sure as hell are not strong enough to win with this tough of a schedule.

EXACTLY!!

A win at home vs. KC was MEANINGLESS when you factor in we CANNOT beat anyone in our division... I want the DP because this draft's 1st Tier players drop off around the 7 spot.. IMHO, we were in a WEAK draft in 2005 when we had the 3 spot but I see the depth of this one being just slightly better...

Hell, people argue that losing breeds losers but we still cannot string together consecutive wins... I am not calling for RAC's head here but he has to bear some of that burden... It is the job of his staff to get the players ready for gameday... PERIOD!

There are SO MANY obvious needs on this team and the BEST 3 guys to help us in our WEAKEST areas SHOULD be gone by the 8 spot... And that is IF Alan Branch and Peterson declare...

I have not been rooting for my team to lose but am just wanting to see some positives out of yet ANOTHER wasted season... Thursday night was the FIRST time that I didn't finish out a game in YEARS and that was ONLY because it was 0430 a.m. going into the 4th Quarter... Couple that with the fact that when I went into work 3 hrs. later, I had to once again shoulder the embarrassment of this laughing stock we seem to put out on the field every other week...

So what is the answer? So many theories and no way to know which one is correct.. Fire the coaching staff? I doubt that is the solution as we see just how successful that has been for us in the past... Have the team lose to gain better draft status? You don't coach that either as that is a defeatist attitude that would corrupt the players more than they already are but as I fan, I hope they do lose out because we have GLARING holes to fill and we need all the talent we can get... I could care less about the MEANINGLESS win against KC... What good did that do them against a Steelers team a few nights ago on NATIONAL T.V? Fix the trenches with the BEST Studs that are out there...

Yeah, let's lose out. Then let's hope our 1st over-all pick wrecks his knee during training camp and that a couple of guys get suspended next season for drug use. While we're at it we might as well hope for some domestic violence charges against a player or two (getting them in trouble with the league) and that Crennel suffers a really bad case of hemmorhoids.

to want your browns to lose is just wrong.

[color:"GOLD"]NAS...I'm fully aware of our situation. The KC win did us in for the run for Thomas.

Now, the only way we get Thomas is to trade up and that is costly..too costly for a team with so many needs.

But, there are 3 more OTs that might go in the first round and the Browns will be in great shape to land one of them. Also, the best OG in the draft may go in the first round, Justin Blalock.

But I'm in favor of drafting a LT and moving Shaffer to G or RT, thus upgrading two of the Browns weaknesses with one draft pick.

I would not be against drafting the top center/guard in the second round either. Truth is, Bentley is a huge question mark as his other knee appears to be in need of surgery. Bentley could be lost for another year and even then, how much will he have lost after being out of football for 2 seasons (maybe)....mac [/color]

The team needs a couple more wins!

That is totally crazy to want to lose for the draft! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

And just curious... What do those couple of wins do for them??

Well, sweetcheeks, I think it was Gallery. LOL.

I couldn't root for a team that tanked it's remaining games for a pick.

No, NO, and HELL NO. I hope we win out. It's not going to happen but I still hope we do.

I think anybody who wishes their teams loses out just for a draft pick should be ashamed of themselves. If the team had the same thinking as you, I would disown them. A friend of mine has jumped ship and is talking the same way, and it pissed me off to no end. <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


You play the game to win. If that's not the reason you're out there, then get the hell off of the field.

I'm hoping that we WIN Out!!!!( No matter who is available in the draft) I seem to remember a few on here (not too long ago), that where wishing that we would Lose out so that we could get Robert Gallery. How is That One workin' out for Da Raiders? hehehe <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> JMHO Go Brownies!!!!

Here is someone who gets it! Everyone who is arguing for the best pick seem to think that the draft is a guarantee of success. That's just not true. When was the last time the Patriots had a top-5 pick? Over 10 years ago!!! Richard Seymour was the last top-10 pick (#6 in 2001)

Winning is the only guarantee of success. The draft helps to fuel victories, but it does not guarantee anything. Therefore, we should not be putting all of our eggs into the "draft basket" - the only basket worth anything is on-field performance.

Now, I know everyone loves dreaming of getting those Butkus and Rimington Award winners (and any other stud coming out of college), but I feel happy and secure that Savage has his head on straight - and knows that the draft is all about getting the most overall value from our set of picks

Remaining Games

Oakland (2-10) plays
@Cincy (7-5)
St Louis (6-6)
KC (7-5)
@Jets (7-5)

Detroit (2-10) plays
Minn (5-7)
@GB (5-7)
Chic (10-2)
@Dallas (8-4)

Arizona (3-8) plays
Seattle (8-4)
Denver (7-5)
@SF (5-7)
@SD (10-2)

Tampa Bay (3-8) plays
Atl (6-6)
@Chic (10-2)
@Cleve (4-9)
Seattle (8-4)

Cleveland (4-9) plays
@Balt (9-3)
TB (3-9)
@Hou (4-8)

Houston (4-8) plays
Tenn (5-7)
@NE (9-3)
Indy (10-2)
Cleveland (4-9)

Washington (4-8) plays
Philly (6-6)
@NO (8-4)
StL (5-7)
NYG (6-6)

Games to Watch ( I will concede that Oak and Det are proably going to finishe wors than the Browns)
Atl @ TB
Tenn @ Hou
Philly @ Wash

Denver @AZ

AZ @ SF
Tampa @ Cle
StL @ Wash

Cle @ Hou
NYG @ Wash

Thanks Charger, I was wondering how the teams around Clevelands schedual was. it looks like Cleveland has the softest remaining schedual.

I doubt the Cleveland players are not going to play as hard so the organization can pay more money to a higher picked rookie.

A higher pick doesnt mean a better pick. I want the Browns to win as many games as possible and then make the best of their draft picks. High draft picks every year can put a bad team in "Cap Hell".

I agree, being top 5 can be a bad thing if the pick does not turn out..

e.g. gallery.. Leaf,... ASmith.. TC.. CB...

Losing ALWAYS does more damage than good. Maybe, the Lebron exception, but even then . . .

First of all, as has been mentioned, a high draft pick isn't any more sure than a mid draft pick, just more expensive. Example: we could have had LaDanian Tomlinson instead of Gerard Warren. LDT went two picks after Warren. McNabb went after Couch. Urlacher was like 10th or something. the list goes on and on. Emmitt Smith was like 20th or something. Drafting depends not on position, but your scout department's evaluation and your GM/coach.

Secondly, and most importantly, losing breeds losing. Teams have to learn how to win. Think the steelers gave a crap about their draft position the other night? They play to win. They come to win. They win. Got it?

I want nothing more than the Browns to win out completely. Even better, I want us to win in blowouts. how much better would you feel about this team if we went into the offseason on a 3 game win streak at 7-9 than on a 4 game losing streak at 4-12? if you had to think about that for half a second, you're a lost cause.

Finally, for those of you wanting regime change, I offer two scenarios:

1. we lose out, and they get tossed, and this draft is a waste because we'll have new people in with no time to assess the team, implement their scheme, and find players that fit, so the high draft pick is a waste.

2. We win out and the future starts to look really bright. Still want a regime change?

Winning fixes everything.

" YOU PLAY--TO WIN-- THE GAME" By Herm Edwards

I agree completely. And as you also said, losing breeds losing...in other words, it becomes a habit, same as winning.

Well I guess I have to come in and defend myself some more.

I am not saying the team should give up. Nor am I saying we as fans should give up in hopes of getting a higher draft pick. I am just saying that if we lose out couldn't it be a positive in a way. I am still gonna be watching them every Sunday hoping to see improvement and wanting them to win, but what if we lose out and show improvement. (1st Steelers game)

Your telling me if we make the last games very close, but lose that it breads losing. It installs hope for next season. If the Browns lose out, but do it with hard work and pride--what more can we ask for? With that we would end up getting possibly Joe Thomas.

Say we dont lose out, win three games or so....well GREAT. Our draft pick just fell, but who gives a _ _ _ _, right. If we fall into a 10-16 range or something we'll just pick.... well who? Branch and Thomas are gone. These are the two guys everyone hopes to have in the Brown and Orange next year beause we all believe they are the best options for upgrading the two areas where we need it the most. Now, if we do fall to this point, I would be very happy with the pick of Darelle Revis from Pitt if he comes out (I think he will).

If we do win some games down the stretch great, but we need to get some more 1st day draft picks somehow. Unless Savage wants to hit FA hard and get either Manuwai or Steinbach. I think we can count on Smith and Freeney being resigned to their respective teams. If we can't land a big name FA like Manuwai or Steinbach, I would much rather be spending our first round draft pick on Thomas or Branch.

Everyone get my drift. This season has been nothing but a disappointment for me and probably everyone else. I expected much better things from EVERYONE, with the exception of our rookie linebackers and Sean Jones (they have been surprising and uplifting). So when I say "Does anybody hope we lose out", I mean it may give us the best option to shape out team into a playoff caliber team.

Don't tell me I am not a true fan by saying this! I am 21 yrs. old and ever since I could watch football it has been the Cleveland Browns. When that douche bag took them to Baltimore, I quit watching football altogether. When they came back is when I began watching again. I am a poud fan of every Cleveland team, the Cavs and the Indians. I have been dealt my fare share of loses in my short lifetime, just like many of you guys. Don't tell me I am not a true fan of Browns football, because it's pretty obvious that I am. Besides Northcutt and Coleman, I look at the positives in every player! Many of you guys sit in here and bash Edwards and Winslow for their mouth, well someone's gotta start talking around here. All the great teams have these kind of competitors. While both have had their run-ins with the organization, they are the future. They will be playmakers and we haven't had one of those since Metcalf maybe. Let's support out team and players, not bash them for complaining about not winning or calling our the other team/players.

New coaches have proven time and time again that they can come in and evaluate a team's needs fairly quickly...and our needs are ridiculously obvious...making that particular job much easier. The sooner we make the change, the better. (Coach...not GM just yet.)

We talk about schemes like we are building a spaceship...it's football for crying out loud. How long does it take to implement a scheme?

Find players that fit? I'll disagree, build a scheme that fits your talent and work towards the scheme you really want...don't shred a team and THEN try and get to your "scheme". When we DO make a change, I hope the new coach understands this dilema.

High draft picks are only a waste when you get unlucky enough (Courtney Brown), or are incompetent enough (Gerard Warren, Willie Green, et al), to pick the wrong guy. It has nothing to do with changing a Head Coach.

What has this regime done in the past two years to make you think that if we win out, the future will look really bright?

I agree that winning fixes everything...and this regime isn't doing that.

So I look at what they are doing and how the team is playing...and it's not pretty...no...it's downright butt-ugly. And IMO, it's not getting better enough to warrant a pass.

The ONLY argument I'll buy to keep the current regime beyond this year is injuries. Not time, continuity, familiarity, or any other excuse. This applies whether we win out, lose out, split out, or just check out.

www.drafthistory.com

If you want to see who we could have had with the 10th to 16th picks in the draft since 1999 knock yourself out bud.

I don't quite care for the logic on that either. If anything I would say look at the schedule of next year for teams in the same W-L bracket and whoever's schedule is tougher the following year should pick first, seeing as how they will obviously need it.

If we lose out, I'm not renewing my Sunday Ticket next year. Enough is enough.

This is the updated standings

1t) Oakland 2 11
1t) Detroit 2 11
3) Tampa Bay 3 10
4t) Cleveland 4 9
4t) Houston 4 9
4t) Washington 4 9
4t) Arizona 4 9
8t) Green Bay 5 8
8t) San Francisco 5 8
8t) St. Louis 5 8
11t) Buffalo 6 7
11t) Miami 6 7
11t) Pittsburgh 6 7
11t) Tennessee 6 7
11t) Minnesota 6 7
11t) Carolina 6 7

So right now Cleveland is in the 4 to 7 range.

yea u will.. lol.. us Browns fans can't help ourselves..

and i just want to win 6 games and tie last years record... i will be str8...

hopefully 6 wins though will get us anywhere from the 4 to 7 spot...

if we are above the packers.. we should be able to get Adrian Peterson..

Hell yea that's what we are good at! In fact we should go for some kind of alltime losing record. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

The draft is 4 1/2 months away. How many signings, trades, releases, firings, etc. will occur before then? I know it's fun to speculate on where and who the Browns will be drafting in April, but really...what will the Browns look like a week before the next draft begins? No one knows. PS is not going to just sit still with $33+ million in available cap space. He's going to make the changes that are necessary.

All that being said, there is no way on Earth that I'm going to invest my time and energy on Sunday to watch a team that expects or wants to lose. I don't care if Joe Thomas is the second coming. If he's the Lebron of the NFL. If he's the Wayne Gretzky of left tackles. I expect my teams to play to win. And I expect that they are going to win in blowouts...every time they take the field.

I would never wish for the Browns to lose but what is wrong with looking at some of the young talent. Northcutt sucks and won't be here next year. Why not give Travis Wilson some exspirance. Andrussi is hurt. How about Sowells.We won the last game of the year at least the last 3 years. The thinking was it gives us momentum going into next year. Hows that working out? All we do is cost ourselves draft position.

Not a chance. I fully expect this team to finish 6-10. Losing to Baltimore and winning the last two. This team has a tendency to win the last game of the season when nothing is on the line. I see nothing different this year against Houston.

As much as I'd like to see Thomas in a Browns uniform, there's plenty of good talent in this years draft.

Never give up!

Not giving up but looking at young talent. Other teams do this. Baltimore didn't play that last game like it was the Super Bowl last year . Sure glad we won that one. Don't know if Balt will ever recover. Whats the differance in 4-12, 5-11, 6-10? Nothing, but it hurts you every round of the Draft.

I hope the Browns give a good look at Sowells, Wilson, Matua, Rob Smith, Leon Williams, Harrison, Vickers, McMillan, Nat Dorsey and any other young gun they have on the roster. But I expect these guys to play to win. I expect the coaches to game plan to win. I want to see how these guys react to victory each of the next three weeks. I'll worry about the draft in four weeks. The difference between finishing 4-12 and 7-9 is huge. It sets a tone for next season. Players feel the pride and refuse to accept losing.

Sorry, but I just can't see things any other way.

The difference between finishing 4-12 and 7-9 is huge. It sets a tone for next season. Players feel the pride and refuse to accept losing.



We've won the last game the last 3 or 4 years. So far this hasn't been the case.

actually dumpling I think it was Tomlinson ... <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ..... your right it may have been Gallery .... or it may have been Jordan Gross .... touche ... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> .... more than likely it was both .. it seems like every year we have won an absolutely meaningless game in the last 2 or 3 to move down in the draft ...

and thisw year we've all ready lost out on Joe thomas .. and that would IMPROVE us much more than a W did against KC or winning any of the remaining 3 games .. thats a pretty costly W .....