DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

He makes a tons of sense, at least to me, when trying to discuss the value of draft picks the FO presumably has andhow it correlates to getting Garappolo. I could see a scenario where Taylor is the choice because you aren't giving up coveted assets. Plus, with so many analysts down on the QB class or that they need more time, who is not to say these QBs are going to fall to 12, namely Trubisky.

I don't know how I feel about this, but if the second rounder for JG is a legitimate price tag, is it:

Scenario #1
- Garrett
- #12 (not a QB)
- Garappolo
- No #33 pick

Scenario #2
- Garrett
- Trubisky
- #33
- Tyrod Taylor

This is assuming someone like Trubisky would be available, but I'm not sure what my preference would be at this point. I guess I lean towards the first scenario, but it's not by much if I knew Trubisky would be available...I really think he can be a star. He just needs time.

I believe he started at RT and then Coleman came in. I thought Erving did fine at RT but I think he did ok at Center too. Still has a ways to go but has improved over the season, IMO.

Erving started at RT and was replaced by Coleman during the game. Coleman got hurt and Erving came back in. He then got hurt and Coleman reentered the game.

As far as that plan goes.......I don't like it. The guy argues logically, but this team is in need of impact players and you aren't going to get them w/plans like that. Passing on Garrett and Jimmy G would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

He's not a good NFL QB ... he's innacurate and inconsistent ... other than that ... SIGN ME UP ... *L* ...

I live(d) in upstate NY .... there won't be a single Jill's fan shedding a tear if he leaves ... he's not the answer ... and for those that think he is ... well ... if Hue puts his stock in Taylor it will cost him his job ...

Taylor is not the answer to our problem ... he's much better than RG3 but he is not the answer and not a good NFL QB ...

Erving is dead in the water. I wonder if we could trade him for JG... or at least some draft picks.

See, we're not cheap!

I don't think Haslem has been cheap. I think the Browns have just spent money on the wrong people. There was even an exercise breaking down all the contracts the Browns gave players since Haslem took over. It's been a significant chunk of change. Couple in the fact you don't have a QB and traditionally don't draft well, why is it a surprise we've had a ton of cap space? I think the two scenarios are very different from each other.

Nate Ulrich: Forecasting this crucial offseason for Browns

The next nine weeks will be among the most crucial in the history of the expansion-era Browns.
The NFL Scouting Combine will run Feb. 28 through March 6 in Indianapolis. Teams can begin negotiating with the agents of impending unrestricted free agents from other clubs on March 7. The trading period and free agency will officially open at 4 p.m. March 9. Pro days, visits to team headquarters and private workouts will precede the April 27-29 draft.

The Browns are armed with a projected $108 million in salary-cap space, most in the NFL. They’re also in position to yield the most power in the draft with five picks in the top 65: first round (Nos. 1 and 12 overall); second (Nos. 33 and 52); and third (No. 65). Coming off the worst season in the franchise’s existence with a record of 1-15, there’s a palpable sense of urgency for coach Hue Jackson and the front office led by head of football operations Sashi Brown and chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta.
No one knows exactly how this offseason will unfold — and there will be more tea leaves to read after teams put out feelers at the combine — but this is an early forecast.

Quest for quarterback
Expect the Browns to explore a trade for New England Patriots backup Jimmy Garoppolo. If the price is too high for their taste, the Patriots aren’t willing to deal him or the San Francisco 49ers, Chicago Bears or another quarterback-needy team pulls off a blockbuster instead, the Browns would probably pursue Buffalo Bills starter Tyrod Taylor, provided he hits the open market with a huge payday due March 12. People who know Garoppolo and/or have studied him think he has what it takes to be a successful starter. They cite his processing speed, quick release and accuracy as the main reasons for those beliefs. The 2014 second-round pick from Eastern Illinois also fully embraced learning from Tom Brady the past three seasons.

‘Arm talent’
Jackson said last month at the Senior Bowl his quarterback “needs to be able to process football and [have] arm talent” and added “those are things that are non-negotiable for me.” That description matches the scouting report on Garoppolo, and Jackson heads this search.But Garoppolo, 25, has only played six quarters as an NFL starter. He went 2-0 in September with Brady suspended for Deflategate. He completed 71 percent of his passes with four touchdowns and no interceptions before a sprained AC joint in his right shoulder sidelined him during the second quarter of his second start. There are reasons to fear trading for someone with such a small sample size, especially a QB whom Patriots coach Bill Belichick would be willing to surrender.

On the other hand, Garoppolo could be a special case, and there’s a logical explanation for why the Patriots would trade him even if they believe he’ll be good. Timing is everything. If they’re going to get anything for him before he can depart in free agency next year, this is the time.
Brady, 39, recently told Sports Illustrated’s Peter King he wants to play until his mid-40s, and the Patriots drafted quarterback Jacoby Brissett in the third round last year. Belichick is 64 and might be compelled to ride off into the sunset when Brady does.

So why not use Garoppolo to strengthen the roster in hopes of racking up as many titles as possible before Brady hangs it up?
Sure, the Browns would rather give up less than more in any trade. Perhaps two second-round picks would be enough to win the Garoppolo sweepstakes, but if not, the 12th overall selection might be their trump card.

If Garoppolo isn’t destined for Cleveland, the presence of new Browns quarterbacks coach David Lee cannot be discounted. He spent the past two seasons with Taylor, 27, in Buffalo and is a big fan of the dual-threat quarterback who would allow Jackson to be creative with zone-read plays. It would make sense for the Browns to draft a quarterback early — Clemson’s Deshaun Watson, North Carolina’s Mitch Trubisky and Notre Dame’s DeShone Kizer are the top-rated ones in this year’s class — even if they were to sign Taylor. With Taylor’s record of 15-14, he should be viewed more like a bridge starter than a probable long-term answer.

In the event the Browns were to land Garoppolo, a developmental quarterback in the middle to late rounds would be a logical target. Prospects in that tier include California’s Davis Webb and Tennessee’s Josh Dobbs, both of whom played for Jackson in the Senior Bowl. Like Garoppolo, Cincinnati Bengals backup AJ McCarron, 26, is scheduled to soon enter the final season of his rookie contract. McCarron could receive interest from Jackson, who coached him in his first two NFL seasons. However, the Bengals may not be willing to trade within the AFC North. The quarterback to watch on the Browns’ roster is Robert Griffin III. Although it’s possible he could be Jackson’s plan C or D for next season, it would be more surprising if Griffin were retained than if he were cut. He’s due a roster bonus of $750,000 on March 11.

Free agency
Owner Jimmy Haslam listed re-signing key players as one of the Browns’ top priorities, and they have secured cornerback Jamar Taylor (during the season), linebacker Jamie Collins and long snapper Charley Hughlett with contract extensions. The focus now is on wide receiver Terrelle Pryor, who’s scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent March 9. Brown has said the team wants to retain Pryor without using a franchise tag. Pryor has said he wants to continue playing for Jackson. Both sides have been working to strike a deal. For the Browns, it’ll be vital to get this done. In his first full season after switching from quarterback to receiver, Pryor led the Browns with 77 catches for 1,007 yards and four touchdowns. It’s reasonable to believe he could be even better with more experience at his new position and some stability at quarterback, where the Browns used six players, including Pryor, this past season. If the Browns can’t reach an agreement with Pryor’s agents Drew and Jason Rosenhaus, they could keep him off the open market and secure him with a one-year contract by franchising him at a projected cost of $15.8 million. The deadline to use the franchise tag is March 1.

Tackle/guard Austin Pasztor and punter Britton Colquitt are the team’s other soon-to-be unrestricted free agents of note.

Others on the verge
The Browns control running back Isaiah Crowell because he’s on the verge of becoming a restricted free agent, and they deem him an important piece of the team moving forward. As for impending free agents from other teams, Haslam has said the Browns must be “appropriately aggressive” in their pursuit of them.
It certainly would be appropriate to sign at least one starting-caliber offensive lineman. There are holes at center and right tackle, plus starting guards Joel Bitonio and John Greco are rehabilitating from Lisfranc injuries. The Browns are going to invest in a quarterback, and he must be protected better than their QBs were last season.
The receiving corps is another area of concern, even with the assumption that Pryor will return.

Safety is one of the most pressing needs on the entire roster. But every level of the defense — the line, linebackers and secondary — requires help as it transitions to coordinator Gregg Williams’ scheme.

Speaking of Williams, he told 92.3 The Fan at the Senior Bowl he would be “shocked” if the Browns weren’t aggressive in free agency a year after they were the opposite. Williams will undoubtedly lobby for some players who have been in his system.

The draft
Free agency, to some degree, will dictate how the Browns approach the draft.
But the presumed options for the Browns at No. 1 overall can pretty much be narrowed down to Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett, Alabama defensive lineman Jonathan Allen or a trade down.A quarterback could be the exception, though Jackson’s determination to avoid another disastrous season points to a veteran coming aboard before the draft. That would decrease the likelihood of one being chosen first in what has widely been labeled a weak QB draft headlined by passers who aren’t expected to be ready to start immediately. Although almost all draft analysts consider Garrett the heavy favorite to become the top pick, the front office likes Allen, too. Jackson has said Williams will also have a huge role in determining which elite defender the organization should prefer.

If the grades are equal, Garrett would likely be viewed as more valuable because he’s a pure edge rusher, the most important position in the NFL other than QB. Allen’s versatility is appealing, but he might be best served as a three-technique on the inside of Williams’ four-man base front.
Then there’s the possibility that the Browns won’t pick anyone at No. 1.

Neither Jackson nor Brown has ruled out trading down from the top spot. Trading down to stockpile more picks is a hallmark of analytics, and the first two selections were dealt last year. Of course, it was the Browns’ analytics-driven front office that moved down from No. 2 with quarterback Carson Wentz there for the taking.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/nate-ulrich-forecasting-this-crucial-offseason-for-browns-1.748530

That is a very good article and I agree w/almost everything he said.

I'm a fan of Nate Ulrich. I get annoyed with the format of the site for hte newspaper he writes for, but he himself, is quite good.

Read this article also, and I enjoyed it

Cleveland Browns ranked third most dysfunctional franchise in sports

by Steven Kubitza 1 day ago
link

A writer for Fox Sports recently named the Cleveland Browns the third most dysfunctional franchise in all of professional sports.

Being a Cleveland Browns fan is no easy endeavor. Those outside of the fan base constantly poke fun at the team, although some of it is deserved.

The negativity toward the team continued in a recent article written by Chris Chase of FoxSports.com. The article ranks the nine most dysfunctional teams in all of professional sports, and the Browns come in at the third spot, just ahead of the New York Knicks and the Washington Redskins.

Now it is hard to blame Chase for his views on the Browns, as they are indeed a dysfunctional organization. Here is an excerpt from his take on the Browns:

Do the Browns even count as dysfunctional? The word implies there was ever functionality. It’s easy to rip them for the Johnny Manziel pick, but in the moment it looked okay. Don’t worry though, it’s easy and acceptable to rip them for everything else, from the Robert Griffin III signing to the Justin Gilbert pick to every single coaching hire to every single quarterback acquisition (26 of them have started a game since 1999) to passing on Carson Wentz to taking on Cody Kessler to all the front-office reorganizations to every draft pick of the past decade minus Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joe Haden and T.J. Ward.
Harsh, but not false.

Luckily for Browns fans, there appears to be a legitimate plan in place to turn things around. And after a 1-15 season, things can’t get much worse.

Related: Trading out of first pick is the worst possible scenario

The main problem, as pointed out by Chase, is the constant hiring and firing of front office members. That problem then leads to bad drafting, along with the carousel of quarterbacks seen since 1999.

Every new regime wants to pick their own players, with quarterbacks being at the top of that list of players. For once, a Browns owner has seemingly committed to giving a front office time to turn things around, and pick players who will be here for a long time.

Browns fans should not be upset about Chase’s article, as the Browns have indeed been one of the worst franchises in sports for a few decades. Instead, fans should see this ranking as the lowest point for the franchise, and appreciate the positive steps being taken to improve the team. Things will only get better from here.

I couldn't care less about the article. It's a persons take. Might even be valid, but no, I am not upset.

What's a "Steven Kubitza"

Why get upset. Its the same cut and paste article we read weekly. We are all aware of the issues more so than most of the media.
The organization is replete with bad decisions, a regurgitation of them sheds no new light

.... Regurgitation .....

How appropriate when discussing the Browns .. lol

The Sandusky Jr High Fighting Musk Oxen Newspaper agrees with Mac.

mac, interesting how you crusade for months Browns front office lacks any football knowledge. Yet you champion an author having less knowledge. Am I the only one who sees irony?

You didn't offer any qualifier as to what you believe about Depodesta's goal.

I looked into this thread to say.
Show me one area of this team that has improved since the bringing in of, Sashi, Depodesta, Hue, Pep, and, and with the mentioning of Dee in pressers about meetings.
Offense? Defense? Passing game, Blocking, Running game, Front 7 defense, Front 4 defense, the Defensive backfield??? seriously the "defensive backfield" ,

or the kicking game, special teams in general, Wins vs Losses, Total yards from scrimmage, Home record, Away record, Number of free agents who "want" to join, or stay with the Browns, Attendence, Advertising, General team toughness perception, Time of possession, total first downs, Field goals made, touchdowns made, Pinning the opponent inside the 20 on kickoffs, Red zone percentage, Defensive Red zone percentage, penalties, penalty yards, Players signed into contracts,

Is there ONE area that this team has improved since the bringing in of Sashi, Hue, Depodesta, Pep, and others.

If there is, can someone please let me know,

Give me "something" to hang my hat on!

linebackers

As the front office said almost a year ago "Things will get worse before they get better" Of course everybody wants to forget about that

Nope! I don't believe it. First, sitting right next to my computer is a list of the Browns linebackers from a month ago. And No, I don't see better than 3 years, 5 years or 7 years ago.
There was better production out of slower less talented guys 5 years ago.
Jamie Collins, DeMario DAvis, Cam Johnson, Christian Kirksey, Emmanuel Ogbah, Nate Orchard, Joe Shoebert.
Plus Carder, Burgess, and Alexander.

Don't add Carder as a plus. He is a special teams player who can fill in at LB at the end of a game we are getting blown out in. He has never been a starter, and has never even deserved the right to be considered a backup.

Carder was a special teamer.

your question was what have they improved since they have been here, not what was here 5 years ago.

Change the dynamics of the questions to fit your agenda, if you don't think that the new FO has improved the LB's since they have been her then there really isn't much to discuss.

That's why I listed only one, I figured the parameters would change

mac, do you consider Bill Pollian a football guy? Here is what he had to say about Andrew Berry after Browns hired.


Hiring of Andrew Berry completes Browns unique front office

It doesn't matter that he graduated [censored] laude from Harvard with a Bachelor’s degree in economics and Master’s in computer science in just four years, or that he was a 4 year starter at corner, 3 time all Ivy, and a All- American winner. The Ivy isn't real football. Only dumb guys play football. He's just a Harvard guy who doesn't know anything about football and isn't 60 years old.




Kidding aside, I think he is just fine. We have a football guy. Just not one that Mac likes.




Strange censoring practices.....lets try this, even if incorrect. come laude....is that better??

LMAO!

I fully understand your argument. I simply don't understand when people stereo type...Browns FO can't possible be any good since they never worked the field. I see businesses all the time hire executives from different industries and make that company strong.

Some people are very good knowing people. Have a knack hiring and developing teams within. Other people who love learning and develop companies in different industries. These are not new concepts.

Browns pioneered a few concepts during the Paul Brown years. I see nothing wrong forging in a new direction. After all what are they going to do make things worse? It is a perfect time trying something new.

As you pointed out sometimes knowledge creates blinders distracting you away from new ideas.

I think things have changed a bit w/how the Browns are set-up. I think that Hue has gained more power and that he will be relied on more heavily in regards to evaluating and choosing talent. I think that analytics will still be used, but that there has been a shift in power.

I have no link for all of that. It's just from reading a series of comments since the end of the season.

Disagree. I think Hue has always had the same power in Berea. Just look at the QB search last year. I think people just failed to realize how much power he had from Day 1 because they were all butt hurt when "Moneyball" strolled into town.

well our front office has a year under their belt now. Every year they are gaining more experience and understanding. I don't think there is any power struggles going on. They have always said that they will work to build a consensus on important decisions. The major difference is that Hue is now more comfortable with his role and feeling more confident as a result.