DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

Good point and to be honest I thought the trans. tag was $10M so another $2M+ does give me pause. I don't consider him a Top 10 WR but I would have still transition tagged him. I think the one-year $12M tag (although very high for him) would be a way to keep him here no matter what. I am of the belief that Pryor can't/doesn't want to play on a "show me again" one-year contract. At least players who normally do get the tag have a larger sample size of success and can most like rely on that success for the following year after the tag, even if they have a down year. He has a season of productivity (which, perhaps, is the reason not to tag him at all and I completely get that). He wants his, most likely, only opportunity at a big deal because his value may be at it's highest it's ever going to be as a football player. I don't think he'd sign the tag but still look for a multi-year deal, either through the Browns or another team. I think it's too risky for him to play on a one-year deal, compared to other players, and would prefer more stability at this point in his career. So I guess the tag isn't more about the $12M (at least for me) as it is about the strategy to keep him long-term. But I understand the concern about whether he is a top 10 WR or not. I don't he is in that group.

mac, I don't get your logic here. From Pryor's position, it is what he and his agent should be doing. From Browns point of view, they most obviously are thinking a lower value. This is simple textbook negotiations. Why are you turning this into something no one every heard? Do you know if Pryor is being unreasonable? It very well could be he is seeking Antonio Brown money for his one year of good performance. Browns FO must practice some financial responsibility. Otherwise, a year or two from now you'll chastise Sashi and gang putting Browns in cap hell.

I don't agree. If we offered 20 mil a year, the new price goes to 21 mil until nodody offer that.


They are going to test the market. We are going to test TP's desire to stay here. If his word is true, we'll get a chance to counter.

Ok, to nit pick ;), the Trans. tag is 13 mil. Not 12, just to be clear. I still say nobody is going to offer him 10 mil a yr.
Were probably at 8- 9 mil/yr. with 10 mil. guaranteed. I think their wanting like 11 - 12 mil a yr. with 20 mil guaranteed.

Just a couple of points Mac.

1. The Browns don't really have any real control over if Pryor starts talking to other teams. That is unless your attitude is to simply throw a boatload of money his way. That isn't negotiating.

2. We don't know if numbers have been discussed or not. It sounds like there have been some preliminary talks, but as I understand it, the two sides are meeting sometime this week during the combine. Maybe it all gets worked out then. Maybe not, but the only way to get a real feel for the market is to see what the market brings. We can look at numbers put out saying he is worth this or that, but until he is actually out there, there is no way of knowing how accurate those numbers really are. If he gets offers in the 8-9 mil range, we don't need to pay 12 mil. Conversly, if we are thinking 8-9 mil and he gets offers in the 12 mil range, we need to up our thinking or let him walk if we choose to not pay that much.

3. It's all going to boil down to TP's willigness to stay in Cleveland. This assumes we are willing to match and or beat other offers. It seems like there is a good relationship. If he gets a good offer elsewhere, we have to hope he gives us a chance to counter that offer. If he just jumps and signed, well, there isn't much we can do about that.

4. I do agree the way teams go about free agency doesn't make sense to me. The time to have signed Pryor was to go out on a limb, say week 4 and offered him a big extension. This isn't just about our FO. Every FO should do it that way. He would have jumped at 3-4 years and 20 mil guranteed, but we waited like all do, which brings in a whole new set of dymanics, which we are seeing play out now.

If you don't give the player whatever they want, obviously you didn't try to sign them at all.

Peen, I agree. Except for #4.

4. I do agree the way teams go about free agency doesn't make sense to me. The time to have signed Pryor was to go out on a limb, say week 4 and offered him a big extension. This isn't just about our FO. Every FO should do it that way. He would have jumped at 3-4 years and 20 mil guranteed, but we waited like all do, which brings in a whole new set of dymanics, which we are seeing play out now.

If I remember right....Pryor was still getting used to the position in the early going. No one knew how he was going to turn out. Remember NO Team wanted him after the first year and we took him back after we cut him once. So an extension at the time really made no sense, unless we knew what he was going to turn into. I don't think anyone knew.

mac, why it is so important Sashi gets Pryor signed to make a statement? Isn't it better Sashi show fiscal responsibility. I don't mean frugal either.

Giving top dollar contracts isn't the answer. Fare contracts is a better statement. Pryor is unique. There isn't many players who people can compare.

Pryor is also being smart about it too. If you read Joe Banner on twitter, he constantly criticizes agents who let their clients sign early. I am sure Rosenhaus is not making this easy too.

It's all about process.

Losing Pryor will leave a gaping hole on our roster. That doesn't mean we should pay him whatever he wants.

Is Pryor the only option? Can't they do get better in FA?

There comes a time Cleveland must start acting like other good teams. Desperation simply puts Cleveland in a bad position. They are already the doormat of the league. Why must they cave to all the crap? Set priorities and principals and do what good teams do. Eventually Cleveland works its way out of this mess. Listening to self proclaim experts simply keeps adding fuel to the dumpster fire.

I really think this is a non issue. Pryor will sign with Cleveland. I think it will be long term. Pryor is maximizing the size of his wallet as he should.

Keep in mind that, just because a guy is good for another team, doesn't mean that he'll be good here.

We've seen Pryor play in our system. We've seen him have success. And clearly he has a lot of potential.


Many times guys become FA's, switch teams, and turn out to not be as good as they were for their past team. This could be because of diff enviornment, different scheme.


For Pryor, it's good to sign here. He's been successful under this team/coaching staff. And for us, it's good for him to sign here, as replacing him isn't as easy as pointing at some player and saying they're going to be better.

We've had tons of failed FA's

If we lose TP then chances are we are drafting a WR at 12. That could be good for our offense but it will mean we miss out on a special player for defense or possibly even our QB of the future.

If free agency plays out and we ink a Safety and CB. I fully expect us to be seriously looking at an offensive player at 12. Possibly moving down. Garrett at #1.

OJ Howard/Njoku TE's
Dalvin Cook RB

I'd take any of those 3 over a McDowell at 12.

Might as well just sign Alshon Jeffery to a huge deal..

...


.....

.......and then resign Pryor

Terrelle Pryor just
might be interested
in signing with the
Eagles

Bleeding Green Nation 1 hour a

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/...hio-state-wentz

Terrelle Pryor is expected to test NFL free agency, and he just might be interested in signing with the Eagles

And he may just not be. What a vague piece of tripe.

Vague?

How can you say it's vague?

He RETWEETED something ABOUT Wentz.

We should probably file tampering charges.

but which wr is worth 12

Yet you said nothing about the 5 threads about Garoppolo being traded.
Were those just a vague piece of tripe?

I guess we just disagree on that point. I think it far easier to get a player to extend for a big money bonus early in the process rather than wait for FA, yet still be a friendly deal.



Once it gets close to free agency, it's stupid for the player to not see what other teams might be willing to offer. It just drives up the price.

It's ALL vague!

Look, I posted in the FA thread that it's too early to talk about these things.

Many of the people many seemed to want in the FA thread are already signed or tagged. And there will be more. It's all dead weight and nothing more than pure speculation.

The same goes for Jimmy G.

But let's face it, when in the title of the article is he just might be interested, that's about as vague as it gets. It's just like saying, "We have no idea if this holds any validity, BUT!"



Don't blame me, you posted the crap!

Sorry Vers!

Football is not baseball, anylatics won't bring a team success in the NFL. Why? Because baseball, like golf, or auto racing, can be boiled down to a lot of individual performances.

A pitcher throwing a pitch, individual
A batter trying to get a hit, individual.
A player in the outfield, or any part of the field, making a play on the ball, individual.

And a player rarely has to physically act with the opponent in order to perform his actions as a player, except the small amount of the game that is tagging a player out.

But in football, 11 guys are often/always asked to act in unison, and everyone is often asked to physically contact/interact with the opposing players.
Sure there are some individual skills,
making a throw, making a kick, making a catch.

But the non individual nature of football makes me think that analytics will not have the same success in football, that it may have had in baseball.

If the Browns forego getting a quarterback with the number 1 overall pick, and believe individual analytics of such a non-impact position like pass rusher are enough to take a player like Myles Garrett first overall.

Then I believe the Browns will be wasting an opportunity that comes along once in a decade, and probably they'll be no better off when we get to this point, 12 months from now.

The Browns websight has 4 articles on the merits of Myles Garrett.
Which I feel awful about.

The Browns are not going to win 6+ games in a year in back to back years if they don't start doing the right thing.

Maybe, I'd not feel so badly about the prospects of Myles Garrett as a Brown, if I thought he's going to have a great career as a pass rusher in the NFL,

But I don't even think he's going to be as good (as a pass rusher,)
As Trent Richardson has been as a running back.
(In his bowl game, if the play of the offense, went the other side of where Garrett lined up, he was a complete stone non factor; and some of those plays went for 20+ yard runs.) (He had 0 tackles, well into the 3rd quarter, and a blocked kick, finished with 1, maybe 2 tackles.)

Best player available?

I can't believe this thinking.

If they miss out on their "possibibly even our QB of the future."

The only reason they would is because they don't take him at #1.

THEY HAVE THE NUMBER ONE OVERALL PICK! IT'S NOBODY'S FAULT BUT THEIR OWN!

Throw long I read your post and respect your opinion. But I feel that MG will be a good pro simply because he has all the tools and we have a DC in place now that knows what he is doing and push not only MG but the rest of our guys to do their best. JMO.

I think if it was looking like Pryor was about to leave in the next week, they wouldn't have cut Andrew Hawkins.

If I recall, I thought Hawkins asked to be released? No?


Plus we do have some nice talented receivers drafted last year, Louis, Higgins, Payton.... I also like Andre Holmes. So all is not lost.

Exactly how do the two correlate?

You do realize that everybody screamed the same thing about Baseball and they were left holding their balls in their throats.

No one has ever said that exact sentence before.

1st off what did they compare it to when they were crapping on it? ...

2nd ... football is not baseball .. there's way MORE VARIABLES ... way more ...

It doesn't transfer GM and u know it ...

Nor hopefully, ever again.. lol

The Patriots are an organization that uses analytics the most...

Yes, but BB is different than football. I did not agree w/most of the OP's post, but baseball is indeed a much more "individual" game than football.

I don't think that can be debated.

Excellent thought

Baltimore does this all the time and they re-sign players.

If Sashi signs Pryor, is this still a failure?

Before getting angry let's see how this plays out. Maybe Sashi learned something last year.

You do know maybe Pryor could be putting on a front and wanting out.

I don't think it's a more individual game. Well, I do. But I also, don't. I think it offers just as many team opportunities as football, well probably not. It's all just disjunctive. If you think about it, every player plays a position like a baseball player. Usually they're meant to try to stay around that area, but they can do what they need to do. Most importantly though, they all have jobs. Realistically if everyone does their job then you will do a great job. Now if you can dedicate the time and resources (which people can now), you can track how well everyone does their individual task in a play. It's quite simply a great way to hold people accountable. That's not to say the formula isn't wrong, it could very well be wrong. It clearly was last year. However, that's the goal of analytics.