DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Anybody hope we lose out?!?!?!

For all for you Joe Thomas fans. How is this kid better then Gallery? Gallery was getting way more hype in Iowa and he isnt helping Oakland win at all. Im still remembering the youtube clip of him getting trucked by Sean Jones. Both were the cream of the crop Big Ten LT's in their respective senior seasons, but neither one compares to an Orlando Pace.

Im not saying I would be mad if we get Thomas, but for all of you o-line college scout gurus, how is he a better prospect then Gallery coming out of college?

From what I have read....Gallery has fairly short arms for his size, which in pass blocking on the edge puts him at a disadvantage.

Other than that, I don't know enough about it to really say.

In the end, I like safe picks at #1. The safest O-line pick in this draft is Blaylock. In past years I have pimped Hurcheson,Andrews, and Gilles. I saw all three of them as safe picks.

Add Blaylock to the list. The guy is just going to start for the next 12 years and probably make a few pro-bowls along the way.

When you get right down to the matter, it is hard to say you reached for a guy out of slot when he does that.

I'll definitely be watching the Capital One Bowl Jan 1.. Nice matchup of Wisconsin and Arkansas. Gives us all a nice opportunity to check on Mr Thomas.

It will, even if Arkansas isn't the best defensivly.

I don't think it will really matter.

Lose out and we are #4....win one, probably 7.....win 2....maybe 8-9.

I don't think we have a real shot at Thomas unless we are at #4....and that is "iffy".

My feeling is when the times comes, we need to be checking one of 3 players....maybe 4...

2 play for Michigan....Branch the DT and Hall the corner, or Gaines Adams when S Carolina plays. If we are at #4 and Thomas gets selected just before our pick, look for Adams to be the selection.

The 4th is Peterson. Like it or not he might be the guy as well.

I've been bookmarking mocks this morning just for shoots and giggles. I have yet to see one that has Thomas falling past 3.

Saint, would you mind posting links to those?

As you just sent me....you did....but the reality is he probably won't.

I am not saying we would pass on thomas......but something tells me Savage is thinking guards more than tackle. And to be honest....I agree....I think our guard play has more to do with out lack of running ability than our tackle play.....but that is just my opinion and many think I don' t know squat. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

IMO, absolutely.

Having two picks at the top of the second round would land us 2 of the top 4-5 guards in this draft (or we could even look at a lesser rated LT to possibly move to right). If we could bring in two good, young OG's and throw Bentley in to the mix, our line would be well on it's way. Then, if we can retain Hank, we might actually have something.

I'm not a huge Shaffer fan but do believe he can be well above average if he gets a little help inside. The OG combo of Coleman / Andruzzi is probably the worst in the NFL. Solidify the interior and our tackles will look a lot better.

Not only that (getting 2 OL) but we could also take Branch at #4. Landing an OG, OG, DT/DE in the first 3 picks would be exactly what we need. We would also have a high 3rd rounder that we could use to look at a smallish DE/pass rusher that fell or even a CB from a smaller school.

The flexibility of having two high second round picks just gives you so many options. Teams covet those spots (because very good players fall every year at an incredible value) and are willing to part with some very good proven players. A pick that high could easily land us a very good OG with 4-5 years experience or even get us an unhappy pass rusher (ala John Abraham last year with the Jets). It also lets you trade a second and a third to get another (late) 1st round drat pick. I'm, getting a heacache thinking about all the possibilities.

With that said, we'll never be that lucky. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

http://www.draftnotebook.com/draft_projection.htm

http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2007/mockdraft.shtml

http://www.gbnreport.com/2007projection.html

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2007/mockdraft_becks.cfm

http://huddlegeeks.com/NFL_Draft/mockdraft.htm

Those are just a few.. there are more of them in March.

Being ranked 30th out of 32 in Rushing Offense supports your argument re: Guards vs LT. However ... 50 sacks, countless "Hurries", 20 interceptions, and an offensive scheme that throws 3 yard passes on 3rd and 6 (because of pressure) indicates LT. I'm not sure we can go wrong here either way. This team needs so much.

Regarding "losing out" ... I recall arguing last year that the win over Baltimore was worth more than a few spots in the draft order. I now think I was wrong. Going 5-11 would have had us picking around 8 (Leinart, Cutler) last year. Going 4-12 could have put us as high as 3 (Vince Young, D'Brick). Going 6-10 last year served no purpose other than to give a false sense of optimism to the fans, and, possibly, to our front office.

In the end, doesn't matter much what we think. The current Browns players don't give a rip about our draft position - they're playing for their jobs now. All the next 2 games will tell us is whether they care or not.

Thanks. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Dave: Is it just me or a lot of our sacks coming up the middle, or from the right?

a sieve allows flow from any direction.

My feeling is you always play to win every game...and the fans should always hope for a win every game. Let the draft position shake out where it does based on that. Else I believe it creates bad karma. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think our first round pick last year has turned out be pretty good. I think Wimbley is going to be a cornerstone on the defense for years to come.

I also feel better picking in the 12-20 range for some reason. I guess too many high pick busts. But since we'll be much higher this year, I just hope we get it right.

I haven't tracked it to that extent; looks like a freakin' jailbreak just about all the time to me. I've seen the pocket collapse a lot up the middle and I've seen speed rushers pretty much have their way on both tackles. If Tucker is healthy, I think our OT's are closer to NFL caliber than our OG's. Neither tandem impresses me much, but then again, I am no O-line guru ... my eyes tend to stay with the ball when I watch a game.

I do. I just don't care anymore if we don't. At this point 4-12 or 6-10 doesn't really matter.

It sucks any way you slice it.

Wow, these are all over the map.

I like the Peterson or Branch picks.

I really hope we do not draft a CB with our very first pick.

I really like Calvin Johnson because him and I went to the same school <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, but I don't think I'd be very happy with this pick even if he is BPA at the time AND especially after spending a 3rd round pick on Wilson last year. I could probably be ok with it if that didn't happen. Not that my opinion matters much...

But this is certainly going to be nerve-racking. I hope we get it right.

a WR would put the Browns in Detroit's drafting position next year.

I was thinking it would start making us look a lot like Detroit and the way they draft and making Savage look a lot like Millen. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I agree with you. I keep wondering when it will be our turn and when we really will care if we win these games late in the season.

We have so many problems on the Offensive Line that a trade down for a lower 1st and a second round pick would be a good idea. My only exception to trading down would be if Alan Branch is on the board. There are a number of good Offensive Linemen available, any of whom could help the Browns...

To name a few...

Sam Baker, OT/Guard USC
Levi Brown, OT/Guard Penn State
Justin Blaylock, OT/Guard Texas
Ben Grubbs, OT/Guard Auburn
Ryan Harris, OT/Guard ND

Jake Long (OT, MIchigan) has already stated that he's staying in school... <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> but that only means he'll be available in the first round next year... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This draft is not very deep in skill position players, or 3-4 NTs, but does seem to be fairly deep in OL (mostly guards). If Thomas is off the board, but Alan Branch, NT Michigan, is available, Branch would be my first choice. Second and maybe third round can then be OL. We should be able to find quality there.

Do you watch games? I have seen Penn State (Michigan) and USC(UCLA) games, along with Wisconsin. There is no way that you should even suggest that Levi Brown or Sam Baker are in the same class as Thomas.

Sheesh... Baker was owned by UCLA, absolutley toasted., If I recall Brown was taken to the cleaners by Woodley. We will see when USC and MI goaes at it.

Blalock and Grubbs are good players.

I watch games and I wasn't saying that any of the OLinemen I listed were in the same class as Thomas. I was saying..if Thomas were not available, and Branch was, pick Branch. If neither were available, trade down. There is quality OL out there. This draft is fairly deep in OL (our need)...not skill positions.

If we trade down, I don't expect a low first and extra second round pick to be the same quality as Thomas, but to trade down and pick up Baker (if he comes out) or Blaylock with our first round pick, then choose (2)Grubbs or Harris with our own second round pick (projected as low first high second round choices), then have an additional second round pick to fill other needs would make sense.... and probably help our line more than Thomas by himself.

[color:"red"]"thats a tough one to get your arms around ... I mean thats like saying that 4 day old crap smells worse than 3 and a half day old crap .. once it reaches a certain level of stink .. its hard to differentiate .."

[color:"orange"]Now I'm confused...I thought that gasses emitting from crap start to wane after time and odor decreases rather than increases... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> lol <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Peen & Saint: regarding Joe Thomas vs. Arkansas I believe he is going to be up against a Sophmore speed rusher Antwain Robinson. Not sure what good account he will give but lookse to be a scatter bug type like a big man chasing a chicken type. So maybe a good look on passing downs.

JMHO

As much as I want to get wins, my ultimate goal is to build up a Super Bowl caliber roster. I don't want to be like San Francisco (a bad, overachieving team that's played itself out of a top draft pick) because, next year, it's going to hurt if it happens. Now, if the draft were a deep one, I wouldn't mind winning one or both of these games to close. However, when looking at the draft class, it's very clear the top-notch talent this year runs four players deep.

1) Calvin Johnson
2) Adrian Peterson
3) Brady Quinn
4) Joe Thomas

After those four, the rest of the draft doesn't impress me nearly as much as those players are the elite talents. I personally want Peterson but, if Thomas falls to us and Peterson doesn't, we can take him and still be thrilled. If either of the other two fall, we can either take a great talent or trade off the pick, as I'm sure a bunch of other teams will be interested. One win messes it all up. We win once, we pick near 7th. We win twice, we're at 10.

I guess it all depends on where your thought process is. Personally to me, this season is shot, half of our starters are either hurt or on IR, and we have nothing to gain, but everything to lose by winning. Obviously, I'll be pulling for the Browns to play great... but I want that Top 4 pick. Ultimately, I think that would help us far more than a win or two to finish off a lost season.

Make it 5...

The over looked OFFENSIVE GUARD spot...

Justin Blalock...OG Texas...

He won't go top 10 simply cause he's a Guard...But...

U said I said he was doing a good job ... I NEVER said that .. hows that taking something to personally .. U put words in my mouth ... I corrected U ... nothing personal .. just responding to what u said ..



Ya, I said he has 3 or 4 pieces to build on ... I was telling taber i believe we finally have the start of the foundation we NEVER HAD BEFORE ... I have also said a MILLION TIMES I do not like some of the things he has done but can see the LOGIC behind them ... and before i decide one way or the other I will give hoim some rope and give him the time he deserves ...

as for those pieces .. U dont see them??? do u really not see them or u just dont want to admit there in place???

Wimbely is the first defensive playmaker we've ahd since Miller .. hes a rook learning a new position with GREAT ATHELETICISM U cant teach and a GREATR TUDE ... hes gonna be a STUD ...

I've seen some good things out of DQ .. is he gonna be a stud?? NOPE .. but he will be a solid palyer that can will make some plays ....

Bentely???? a two time pro bowler and hes not a part of the foundation??? *LOL* .,... OK ... guess its Opies fault he got hurt ....

Leon is the best reciever we've had since our return ... granted that aint saying much but he does bring a few things to the table .. and IF he learns to run toutes and hang on to the ball he can be a REAL GOOD ONE .. regardelss hes at least a deep threat that can stretch the field .. and he also BLOCKS ...

then U have Leon Williams who will be fun to watch and see how he develops .. he could end up being a nothing or a HUGE PIECE ... but I am very interested to see how he develops in the next year ...

Pool has also came along way ... he could be a piece also ...

the cupboard is no where near as bare as u want to make it out to be .,. could it be fuller?? YEP .... but just because Opie didnt; do it like U and I would have don't make himn near as bad as u wanna make him out to be ..

give his PICKS SOME TIME ... quit squelching them like there bums after a year or two ... thats just WRONG ...



why didnt U just say that in the beggining ... this could ahve all been avoided .. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />



WOW .. I have no clue how u can say that with a straight face .... that one boggles my mind .... care to elaborate so I can show u the errors of your way ... <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

theres alot more to be hopeful about this year than last .. and it aint; even close ..



neglected the OL?? bringing in Bentley one of the top 3 - 5 centers in football and the BEST YOUNG CENTER in football is far from NEGLECTING ... he also brought in Shaff ... granted we way overspent on him but that is FAR FROM NEGLECTING the problem ... like i said earlier bro .... just cause he didnt; do it like U or I would dont he NEGLECTED IT .. matter of fact he FAR FROM NEGLECTED IT ... would i have liked to have seen some day 1 OL .. ABSOLUTELY .. but we only had 3 day 1 picks .. and 2 of them went for the front 7 on D ... another GREAT NEED ..



now i know your drunk .. *L* ...

signing Joe was a GREAT MOVE ... If u have a problem with that your NUTS ... who was gonna be our #2 WR?? Cutt ... *LOL* .. plus we didnt' know if Leon would be back or when ..

drafting Wilson miffed me also .. until I got myself educated on the kid and realized someone in this org. was intelligent enough to know that Cutt NEEDED TO GO (i know hes your boy but he dont wanna be hear .. he NEVER DID ... and he isn't that good anyhow .. ) .. so because of his foresight into the WR position last year he will save u an ass whoopin this year by not having to draft or sign another one ... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Have a good x-mas my frined ...

I have already said I would like to see that but I just want to caution people to not expect it.

To trade down you have to find someone who wants to trade up. Everybody says they do, but when it gets right down to the matter, not many do.

You also have to be lucky in where you are selecting and who is still on the board for deals like that to happen. That is why they almost always happen on the clock and rarely happen pre-draft unless you are talking about the #1 pick.

Once a team sees a player they really want, they start playing poker, trying to figure out how far down in the draft order they can drop to get the pick as cheaply as possible.

No sense trading up to #4 if all your intel tells you that you can probably wait unil #8. You just sort of have to keep your ear to the ground and be ready to move if you think someone else is about select or move up for a player.

And there is no telling before hand when and where that might happen.

[color:"white"]Way late to this party, but I'm not the least bit shy about wanting the draft pick.

Now, that the Cards have upset the Niners, we're sitting in great shape for having a crack at Joe Thomas. Only the Raiders and Lions have worse records than we do, and arguably, they both have left tackles. Both teams are in desperate need for a "franchise" QB, and both have other needs as well.

I haven't bothered to really dig into the standings and tie-breakers to see where we're at, but I'm all for losing to the Texans in the hopes that we can get Thomas or some extra draft picks.[/color]

Let's play 'What-If' for a second...

What if Tucker makes a complete recovery and the jury decides that Shaffer isn't powerful enough for RT...

What do you do?

I sure wish I had a better feel for Shaffer.

If we lose to Houston, we're picking at worst fourth. Given that the teams above us would be Detroit, Oakland and Tampa Bay, we're looking to be in great shape for either of the players that I've coveted all along - Adrian Peterson or Joe Thomas. I'll leave it up to Savage as to which should be the pick (because the merits of both can be debated ad nauseum), but with a loss at Houston, we can be assured we'll end up with a stud.

Let's go Houston!!!!

I've never cheered against the Browns - but I won't be sad if we lose.

That's how I approached today's game. I rooted for the Browns and could never go against them, of course they didn't give anything to cheer about either but I certainly wasn't going to be mad over losing a meaningless game at the same time.

I'm officially on board the Joe Thomas bandwagon now, I hope there's still room. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]
Even with a complete recovery, Tucker has missed 16 games over the last three years and will be 32 come June. His time in this league is nearly over.

For me, we could take Thomas and plug him in at RT for a season so that he can learn what the NFL is all about. After that, if we have to dump Shaffer we have to dump him, but that wouldn't be any different with or without Thomas <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Shaffer isn't going to get noticably better. He's firmly in the middle of his career and if he hasn't figured it out by now he won't. He's a below-average left tackle, and only a move to the right side can save his paycheck down the road. He isn't powerful enough to be a guard, and I doubt he can play center, hehehe.

If we're sitting at 3rd and Thomas is there, he's a Brown.

I shudder to think of the situation if we pass on him. Actually, I'll have three words in my new sig: Fire Phil Savage. Let's hope it doesn't get to that point........[/color]

[color:"orange"]I just have to comment, from what I've heard...Lerner wants AD....We will have a shot at AD If I was a betting man my money would be on Peterson in a Browns uni next year. [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I know I'm gonna feel stupid about this after you answer ... but who is AD?

Where'd you hear that? I'd be very pleased if it were true. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

??? Last time I heard Lerner don't know jack about football and leaves the personnel decisions to Savage.

Well we inched closer today .... now we gotta pray that Houston dont have a let down and we dont play out our asses and win ...

[color:"white"] HERE WE GO TEXANS HERE WE GO [/color]

PLEASE DONT LET US MESS THIS ONE UP ... please ... if we lose we have a REAL SHOT AT JOE ...

[color:"GOLD"] Starting to look like we could be the 3rd pick in the draft behind Oak and Det.
[/color]