DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Brock Pt 2

Cody will be a different QB next year ... some on here think he's INCAPABLE of IMPROVING ..

He will throw deep much more often this year than he did last year ...

The game was moving to fast for him last year .. if it doesn't slow down and he doesn't learn how to throw people open ... he will never even be the very good #2 I thought he could develop into when we drafted him ...

Folks are crapping all over (and he did STINK last year ) a kid that should have never even seen the field last year ... he should have been buried so far on our bench we shouldn't have even known he was there ...

He may never be ready to throw guys open and atrusts what he sees ... IF NOT ... BYE BYE CODY ... and even if he does a good back up is his cieling ...

But blaming last year on him and throwing him out with the bath water w/o giving him a chance is just silliness i tell ya ... silliness ...

He will be better .. the question is ... will he BE GOOD ENOUGH!!!

That is not true. You're just making things up again.

He can get better. After all, he was a rookie. But the guy has a poor arm and he knows it. That severely limits what an offense can do.

He can be a backup qb, but I don't see him as a viable starter in the NFL.

OK, first off, I want to let it be known that I'm just bringing this up for discussion's sake. From what I saw this year, I agree that Kessler has limitations on arm strength - though I don't think its as bad as many on here seem to think it is.

BUT, given that there's been some discussion around ball velocity at the combine, Kessler's ball came out at 55mph....which was very much middle of the pack.

I've always thought his short to mid-range stuff seems to come out at a decent velocity...it's his long range stuff that arcs like a freaking rainbow....

You Guys Are Always harping on Cody Kesslers weak arm, how about Brian Sipe everyone accused him of having a weak arm but he had a pretty successful career, and when he did go deep he wasn't to bad at it, if you go to www.deadspin.com you will see that QB's in the NFL only pass 20+ yards 9% to 16% of the time, most throws are short outs crossing patterns or dump offs (Swing or Screens) so although the deep ball is exciting it isn't the most used pass in the NFL ...

Its not about the bomb. It's the ability to hit the 20-25 yards passes on a rope that separates good QBs from limited QBs.

At least we would get improved field position!

I wanted to look into this a little deeper:

Last year Kessler averaged 3.86 Air Yards, Osweiler was at 3.50. Kessler averaged 7.1 yards per attempt, Osweiler 5.8 (Osweiler was 0.4 yards below anyone else in the league in this category, Kessler didn't qualify, but if he did he would have been middle of the pack).

Kessler did not throw downfield in 2016. Osweiler was incapable of throwing downfield in 2016 (and he had Deandre Hopkins).

Brian Sipe was not afraid to throw any pass asked of him. Bizarre comparison. Heck, if anything, Sipe trusted his arm too much.

It's not just the bomb that I am talking about. It's the ability/willingness to throw the deeper intermediate routes and the deeper outs.

Heck, Hue has talked about the same thing. Are you going to wave that annoying finger in his face, too? Are you saying that you know more about qb play than Hue does? Seriously?

There is no doubt that teams started stacking the LOS to stop our running game, which was ranked as high as 4th in the league. They also challenged Kessler to beat them w/the throws I have already talked about. Kessler was unable to do so and the offense stagnated. Hue was obviously very frustrated by this.

Oh, and just for fun. Let me use the "logic" that you bring to the table when discussing Jimmy G.

Kessler stinks because he is a back-up qb.

What in the hell are you talking about now?

Skirt the facts? LMAO...

lol

That's truly interesting. Not sure where you go for your stats ... I'd be interested on the data on Wentz and Siemen.

AND before anyone tries to imply I am saying sats make Kessler a better QB prospect than Wentz. . . I am not.

I'm curious just how different Osweiller's numbers are for the previous year with Denver.

Just quoting for context Vers, not because I'm trying to directly counter your points.

I think its hard to say that Kessler was afraid to go deep so much as the deep routes simply weren't there for him much of the time either due to spotty WR play or the inability of the Oline to give him the time it took to let a longer route develop.

I never found Kessler unwilling to throw. What I saw a lot of was him flushed out of the pocket early and trying to put himself in a position to still pass downfield.

Here is the link to the site:

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2016/

Wentz averaged 3.21 Air Yards per attempt (that is really low).

Siemian was at 4.01.

With the Broncos in 2016 Osweiler averaged 7.2 yards per attempt and 3.81 Air Yards Per attempt.

Thanks ! That link now saved to favorites!!

I have no idea why I wouldn't have looked before ... but given how much credit I put into PFF grades I finally had a look at the QB grades from last year!! Interesting reading. I value PFF as they grade each play according to whay happened as opposed to just looking at a stat line. If a WR makes a great play on what was otherwise a poorly thrown pass, the WR gets a lot of credit and the QB doesn't.... It's led to some interesting discussions for sure and not everyone is sold on PFF for sure.

Kessler - 74.2
Dak - 84.9
Wentz - 76.8
Tyrod Taylor - 84.6
Garoppolo - 74.7
Mariota - 72.4
Flacco - 71.4
Bortles - 52.9
RG3 - 52.1
Winston - 77.5

Boy oh boy, my news feed just blew up with something Bernie Kosar shared. Interesting times we live in for sure.

http://nypost.com/2017/03/12/texans-last-straw-brock-osweilers-eruption-at-having-to-play/

"There were two tantrums thrown by quarterbacks during the Texans’ Week 17 loss in Tennessee last season. The first resulted from a player being too woozy to play, the next from a player being asked to play.

The dust is settling on Brock Osweiler’s one-year Texans stint, and the team is kicking him on his way out. According to a Pro Football Talk report, that game against the Titans — not any of the previous weeks of horrific Osweiler play — was when Houston realized it needed to move on from its $72 million mistake..."

Sounds like he's going to love being in Cleveland. I think I'm just going to wait and see about this one.

This will be year two in the same system for kessler. I expect to see big improvements. One thing that should definately improve is chemistry between him and coleman. Hopefully our #1 WR learns how to get open this season. IF Kessler trusts him more then the deeper passes will also come.

It's fine to disagree. We just saw two completely different things.

Hopefully, we'll get a real qb and all this Kessler talk can be put to bed.

+1 on TP article, made sense to me...I know this, I heard Sashi state BO can come in and compete...that isn't cutting him/nor trading him....he has value, is on the team, He is WAY taller than Hue's 6'2" minimum, has won games AND is 26...I agree he's better NOW than RGIII- who is brittle and holds the ball....I don't care what we do with BO...hope he uses deodorant... smile...Go Browns!!!!

"TO smells like BO"

Sorry, this thread reminded me of the 2nd best sign I ever saw at a Browns game.

The first being "We still have LeBron"

LOL...........my daughter and I were at that game. We were laughing out behinds off at that sign.

I was at that game too. The best part was that you could tell it bothered TO because he tried to tear it down.

The "Jump Art" signs in the old muni were pretty funny. Somebody would always manage to get one on tv before they were ripped down.

LOL............yeah, that was great. Remember the fans leaning over the edge trying to hold onto the signs? LMAO........we were laughing like crazy.

Great memory............but, McNabb running all over the field wasn't so great. Oh well...........

Heard the Browns are offering Brock and a 5th for a 3rd. Source; a local sports talk show I listen to. We are doing this to accumulate more picks to package for JG according to the hosts.

I don't think we'll get that, but I hope we do.

Who would even be interested in him really?

I would swing hard for Cousins.

If WAS isn't that interested in keeping him, I'd offer Brock and maybe a 2nd+ for Kirk.

Washington needs to start over. So they could ride Brock to a high pick probably.

Sorry Pryor.

I can't say I have really watched, or even read much about Brock. What makes him so bad?

He played well in Denver. Well enough to get Houston to pony up a ton.

Is it possible he and O'Brien simply couldn't get along. Somewhere in the dozens of article that have gone up since we traded for him, one of them said O'Brien never wanted him. The GM did.

Could Brock have been put in the middle of a power struggle in Houston? Is it possible for a coach to place his QB in to a no win situation?

I think the Browns and media need to start treating this guy like he is a member of the team.

He's that bad .... it literally hurt watching him ...

Our QB's were bad ... they were down right HORRIBLE last year .... i do not believe we had one well played game from a QB last year ... we never had a complete 60 minutes as far as I can remember .... and a lot of that falls on them ... but there was ineptitude around them all year long also .. the WR's and TE's and OL and RB's chipped in at times ...

BO played with a VERY GOOD O that played far from inept around him ... he DESTROYED that O all by himself ... Lamar Miller, BO made Hopkins who is one of the top 5 WR's in football INVISIBLE ... and thats hard to do cause Hop has a SICK CATCH RADIUS ....

I'm not exxagerating when i list these shortcomings ... and there all pretty glaring ...

- innacurate ...
- holds ball to long, slow decisions ...
- long, slow delivery
- very awkward, does not move well at all in the pocket and he is un-atheletic ..

I'd much rather play Cody ...

I wouldn't say all by himself. Houston's OL is bad.

I agree. I don't know what will happen or what the plan is... and while I know it's a business and it can be ruthless, I'd like to see a little more class exuded by the team (and media).

I know that stats never tell the whole story, but I remember how mad Elway was when Brock took off for Houston. They wanted to retain him. Very badly.

I can't say I've ever watched him play in Houston. Did watch one game with him in Denver. The Denver Oline looked decent to the untrained eye anyway.

We've beefed up our Oline and I'm just wondering out loud, can that be the difference for him?

He is not going to be on the team.

Always hopeful.