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Trubisky's Pro Day is today. Sashi Brown and Hue Jackson are not there (others from the organizations are attending).
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Mitchell Trubisky - QB - Player
ESPN's Rich Cimini reports "the Jets are very intrigued" by UNC QB Mitchell Trubisky.
The Jets will have a contingent at Trubisky's Pro Day on Tuesday. Despite signing Josh McCown to be their bridge starter and drafting Christian Hackenberg in the second round last season, there continues to be speculation the Jets will draft a quarterback. Taking Trubisky would require the No. 6 overall pick, however, meaning they would need to be more than intrigued by his talent to pull the trigger. The Browns are reportedly targeting Trubisky with the No. 12 overall pick.
Related: Jets
Source: ESPN Mar 21 - 9:49 AM
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The question is - IS HE THE GUY...and it will not be decided on the fact others started over him in previous seasons. That actually is a ridiculous reason. ...The 13 games and the didn't beat out Williams is just posturing on irrelevant facts. I guess that the HOF coach Bill Parcells must be "ridiculous" and "is just posturing on irrelevant facts," too: I'll quote parts of an article that was written in April of 2016: Bill Parcels Criteria for Drafting Quarterbacks: + He must be a senior, because you need time and maturity to develop into a good professional quarterback. + He must be a graduate, because you want someone who takes his responsibilities seriously. + He must be a three-year starter, because you need to make sure his success wasn’t ephemeral and that he has lived as "the guy" for some period of time. + He must have at least 23 wins, because the big passing numbers must come in the context of winning games. http://www.ganggreennation.com/2016/4/4/...ng-quarterbacksFor those of you who are interested in having an intelligent conversation and not just handing out childish insults, I would like to say that I don't think Parcells' criteria for drafting qbs is completely correct and I would not dismiss the thought of drafting a qb if he didn't meet all of the criteria. However, I don't think looking at the number of games played and how long a guy started in college are either "ridiculous" or irrelevant." The following information is from the same article: Quarterbacks who hit all four pieces of criteria (7/14)
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Tony Romo
Russell Wilson
Philip Rivers
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Quarterbacks who hit three of the four pieces of criteria (2/14)
Andrew Luck
Matt Ryan
Quarterbacks who hit two of the four pieces of criteria (4/14)
Tom Brady
Joe Flacco
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Quarterback who hit one of the four pieces of criteria (1/4)
Cam Newton Interesting list, isn't it? I also know that other NFL QB talent evaluators have similar criteria when evaluating qb prospects. Again, I do not think it is an end-all, but being leery of a guy's lack of experience as a starter and in total number of games played is not "ridiculous" or "irrelevant," in my opinion.
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Nobody would draft, in the top 10, another position player with just 13 starts, so why do it with a QB?
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Nobody would draft, in the top 10, another position player with just 13 starts, so why do it with a QB? It's a QB driven league. If team leadership really thinks he's the QB they want moving forward, they are going to take them when they have the chance before another team grabs them up.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.
– Jackie Robinson
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Nobody would draft, in the top 10, another position player with just 13 starts, so why do it with a QB? It's a QB driven league. If team leadership really thinks he's the QB they want moving forward, they are going to take them when they have the chance before another team grabs them up.
I'm not saying it will happen but if Hue and this FO love Trubisky they will take him #1 and Garrett will be gone ... So my question to all of you is "IF" this happens would you be ok with it or would you jump off the nearest building?(jk) I would be ok with it because we need a Franchise QB and would hate to see him become that elsewhere ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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This seems possible, yet I believe that Garrett is the #1 target, and that Trubisky is the target for the Jets at #6, so I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to trade up to #5 to get him. Barring that, I'd say we'd be looking at Watson or Mahommes. I don't see any way Trubisky is there at 12. To answer your question, though, if they believe he's truly THE GUY, and they take him #1, I may not like the decision, but I'll have to respect it given the situation.
As an aside, I read he had a decent pro day.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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This seems possible, yet I believe that Garrett is the #1 target, and that Trubisky is the target for the Jets at #6, so I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to trade up to #5 to get him. Barring that, I'd say we'd be looking at Watson or Mahommes. I don't see any way Trubisky is there at 12. To answer your question, though, if they believe he's truly THE GUY, and they take him #1, I may not like the decision, but I'll have to respect it given the situation.
As an aside, I read he had a decent pro day.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Also, since the Jets are QB desperate (almost as much as we are) I don't think there's a chance in hell he gets by them at six. If we pass at one, it wouldn't shock me to see the Jets try to move up to five to thwart us.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I want it to happen ... garret's tape UNIMPRESSED ME ...
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I want it to happen ... garret's tape UNIMPRESSED ME ...
I want it to happen because we have been looking for THAT GUY @ QB since 1993 ...
Last edited by PastorMarc; 03/21/17 04:12 PM.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I want it to happen ... garret's tape UNIMPRESSED ME ...
I want it to happen because we have been looking for THAT GUY @ QB since 1993 ... We all have our reasons ... 
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Would have liked to see Mitchell take some snaps from under center during his throwing session
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Did you watch it ed? I'm interested to know how he looked in comparison to Watson (who had a pretty blah day according to reports).
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Did you watch it ed? I'm interested to know how he looked in comparison to Watson (who had a pretty blah day according to reports).
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Lot's of speculation and that is fine, but Bucky Brooks has Trub going at 25th overall. I don't think it is set in stone that Trub won't be there at 12. Personally, I wouldn't even take him there, but that is a different debate.
Btw.........I love how you all completely ignored the Parcell's post. LOL
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J/c .... Lots of posters have asked why Mitch couldn't beat out Williams ... a legite and logical question ... makes sense to want to know why ... wish Fedora would answer that publically now ... guessing if he hasn't yet he won't at this point ... Folks kept asking the question and bringing up the fact that Mitch couldn't even beat out a guy that wasn't even an nfl prospect .... and thats a good point ... no one ever said anything about Williams ... if they did ... maybe I missed it ... its possible .... so i went and looked at a bunch of his stats and his overall career .... then I stumbled upon this ... think it may shed a little light on the situation in a quick short concise way ... here is the first couple paragraphs .. http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205497749• 2015 All-ACC Second Team (ACSMA and coaches) • 2014 All-ACC Second Team (ACSMA) Played in 48 games at UNC and made 33 career starts • Established more than 20 UNC records, including career rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (35), career rushing yards by a quarterback (2,458) and career total offense (10,423) • Was responsible for more touchdowns (99) than any other player in school history and only two players in ACC history had more • Ranks third in school history with 61 touchdown passes and is third in school history with 35 rushing touchdowns • Compiled the top three and four of the top five single-game total offense performances in Carolina history – set the UNC mark with 524 total yards of offense against Duke in 2015 and accomplished that in less than three quarters • The 524 yards are the sixth-most in ACC single-game history • Eclipsed his own previous UNC record of 469, which he set against Old Dominion in 2013 • Five-Time ACC Offensive Back of the Week (Duke, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh - 2014; Duke - 2015). 2015 – Senior Season Started all 14 games: Completed 219 of 357 pass attempts for 3,072 yards, 24 touchdowns and 10 interceptions • Rushed for 948 yards on 158 attempts (6.0 avg.) and scored 13 touchdowns. Clemson (ACC Championship Game): Rushed for 81 yards to set the new UNC single-season record with 867 yards to break his own single-season • Threw for three touchdowns – a 46-yarder to T.J. Logan, a 3-yarder to Ryan Switzer and a 17-yarder to Switzer • Was the fourth time this season and the seventh time in his career that Williams threw at least three touchdown passes in a game (2015– 3 vs. Illinois, 3 vs. Wake Forest, 4 vs. Duke and 3 vs. Clemson) • Was responsible for four touchdowns, including a 1-yard rushing touchdown in the third quarter • Completed 11 passes for 224 yards, an average of 20.4 yards per completion • Gained 305 yards of total offense and became the fifth player in ACC history to gain at least 10,000 yards in his career.
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Interesting list, isn't it?
I also know that other NFL QB talent evaluators have similar criteria when evaluating qb prospects. Again, I do not think it is an end-all, but being leery of a guy's lack of experience as a starter and in total number of games played is not "ridiculous" or "irrelevant," in my opinion. No, it isn't irrelevant. It is no doubt a factor that needs to be considered. However, things change. The good players tend to leave after their Jr. year more often then they did even 10 years ago. Not many go in and start as a freshman. Seeing as they don't stick for a Sr. season, the three year starter deal can be impossible to attain. Wins, I can take that or leave that. That was always one I didn't agree with. But mostly, times change. Bill formed this opinion when? In the 80's when with the Giants. Maybe even before he was a head coach? Not many years ago running back was always a top pick priority. Today, it's almost viewed as a throw away position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Who knows, maybe the Browns will look at Williams as a RB. LOL
And bro..........you can talk directly to me. I am not thin-skinned. I have no problem if you wanna disagree w/me about Trub. I just don't like when posters use terms like "ridiculous" and that my points are "irrelevant."
I have a question for you, Diam. You have gone on record that you want the Browns to draft Trub w/the first overall pick. Does that mean you have absolutely no concerns about him not being able to beat out a running qb and him only having 13 starts?
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I know the game has changed. However, that is why I also posted the list of qbs who met Parcell's criteria [as of last year.]
I think it is certainly something to consider.
I wonder how many of the boxes Jimmy G checked in Parcell's QB draft criteria? Anyone know?
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I wonder how many of the boxes Jimmy G checked in Parcell's QB draft criteria? Anyone know? I looked it up in case anyone is interested: --Senior: <<Check>> --Graduate: Could not find this one, but he probably did because he was there through his senior year. --3-Year Starter: <<Check>> --23 Wins: <<Check>> So, Jimmy either checks all 4 of the boxes or at worst, 3 of them.
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The Parcells criteria is interesting. I also remember a long time ago, probably on the old site, some had posted a similar QB criteria matrix. This one had a few more stat based criteria i.e. must have had minimum 60% comp. pct and TD to Int ratio. I believe that matrix relied less on total wins and only stated that a QB prospect start more than one season but did not specify three years. Both are interesting, and in the case of Jimmy Garoppolo, very intriguing. I would also like to see how many active QBs check the boxes. I would be curios to see how many QBs that checked all of the boxes and where drafted relatively high still failed to make it as a quality starter in the NFL.
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I look at Parcell's test much the same way I do the velocity test in that it raises a red flag for a player who hasn't met the criteria. In the velocity test, since they have been doing the test, only 1 in 30 players who have thrown under 50mph have turned into long term starters.
People can discredit the test if they like, but the success rate for those who don't meet the metric is astoundingly low. For me to draft a player who didn't meet this metric I would have to be convinced that he had other strengths that could overcome the odds.
As you put out in your Parcells post, the odds of a guy making it are stronger the more of these requirements that he achieves. Thus imo it is a valid metric that should be considered when drafting a QB. As I stated above, I would have to be convinced that he has other abilities that could overcome the odds.
I wouldn't draft either of these players first overall even if I believe they did have those abilities, because even if I believed they could be the "guy" to overcome the odds the risk associated with it is too large. I would be hesitant to spend a first round pick in general on these guys because of those risks.However, due to the QB tax as they say, if you like one your going to have to draft them higher than they should go in most cases.
So if the rumor is true and Hue loves Trubs (and apparently thinks he can beat the aforementioned odds) then the Browns can't wait until 33 or hope they can trade up to 20 to get "value" for the pick. They should take him at 12 and just be done with it.
I think taking him at 1 (or trading up for him) is not a good idea because it's just poor risk management, but using the 12 pick would be the balance of managing the risk of him being a bust/and getting a QB who you think you can build around.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I think Parcells Rules are really just a way to gauge maturity and leadership. Yes, the rules can be good indicators that those things are present, but they aren't flawless and there are other ways of trying to determine if those "traits" are present.
You'd obviously like a player to have maturity and to be a leader, and it is hard to succeed if you don't have them. However, you need more than to just pass those rules.
Brady Quinn and Chad Henne passed the rules.
You can be mature and a good leader without meeting Parcells rules. However, I'm not sure if the guys we are looking at in this draft are. Trubisky's "leadership" seems kind of forced to me. I'd say Watson has maturity and leadership, but I'm not sure on the everything else bit. Kizer seems to be immature and the leadership is a question (I put some of that on Kelly).
I'm not really a fan of the 23 wins criteria. I think the surrounding talent level plays into that way too much. I get the can you lead your team to victory aspect, but the QB can't control everything. A good team can carry a "bad" QB. A bad team can hamstring a "good" QB.
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J/c .... Lots of posters have asked why Mitch couldn't beat out Williams ... a legite and logical question ... makes sense to want to know why ... wish Fedora would answer that publically now ... guessing if he hasn't yet he won't at this point ... Folks kept asking the question and bringing up the fact that Mitch couldn't even beat out a guy that wasn't even an nfl prospect .... and thats a good point ... no one ever said anything about Williams ... if they did ... maybe I missed it ... its possible .... so i went and looked at a bunch of his stats and his overall career .... then I stumbled upon this ... think it may shed a little light on the situation in a quick short concise way ... here is the first couple paragraphs .. http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205497749• 2015 All-ACC Second Team (ACSMA and coaches) • 2014 All-ACC Second Team (ACSMA) Played in 48 games at UNC and made 33 career starts • Established more than 20 UNC records, including career rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (35), career rushing yards by a quarterback (2,458) and career total offense (10,423) • Was responsible for more touchdowns (99) than any other player in school history and only two players in ACC history had more • Ranks third in school history with 61 touchdown passes and is third in school history with 35 rushing touchdowns • Compiled the top three and four of the top five single-game total offense performances in Carolina history – set the UNC mark with 524 total yards of offense against Duke in 2015 and accomplished that in less than three quarters • The 524 yards are the sixth-most in ACC single-game history • Eclipsed his own previous UNC record of 469, which he set against Old Dominion in 2013 • Five-Time ACC Offensive Back of the Week (Duke, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh - 2014; Duke - 2015). 2015 – Senior Season Started all 14 games: Completed 219 of 357 pass attempts for 3,072 yards, 24 touchdowns and 10 interceptions • Rushed for 948 yards on 158 attempts (6.0 avg.) and scored 13 touchdowns. Clemson (ACC Championship Game): Rushed for 81 yards to set the new UNC single-season record with 867 yards to break his own single-season • Threw for three touchdowns – a 46-yarder to T.J. Logan, a 3-yarder to Ryan Switzer and a 17-yarder to Switzer • Was the fourth time this season and the seventh time in his career that Williams threw at least three touchdown passes in a game (2015– 3 vs. Illinois, 3 vs. Wake Forest, 4 vs. Duke and 3 vs. Clemson) • Was responsible for four touchdowns, including a 1-yard rushing touchdown in the third quarter • Completed 11 passes for 224 yards, an average of 20.4 yards per completion • Gained 305 yards of total offense and became the fifth player in ACC history to gain at least 10,000 yards in his career. I think Marquise Williams is free, so I'm Ok with signing him and let Trubisky go to other pastures....
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I like both your post and BigWillie's.
Obviously, Parcells used that as a guide and then evaluated a QBs skill set. And again, I am not saying it's a great way to evaluate qbs. I just pointed it out because my opinion on Trub not starting many games was called "ridiculous" and "irrelevant."
I don't think the concern over Trub not being able to win the starting job for 2 straight years and his lack of experience are ridiculous or irrelevant. I think they are legitimate concerns.
I do have to say one more thing about the Parcell's criteria thing, though. I was really surprised by the list of qbs who met his criteria. I must say that I now put more credence into what he said than I did before I saw that list.
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That is exactly what I have been saying. It's not like Trubisky couldn't beat out some bum, he was stuck behind a guy who put up almost Heisman like #s.
Williams;
2014 (Jr.)
Passing: 270/428 63.1% 3068 yds 7.2 yds/att. 21 tds 9 ints 135.3 rating
Rushing: 193 atts 788 yds 4.1 avg 13 tds
2105 (Sr.)
Passing: 218/356 61.2% 3068 yds 8.6 yds/att. 24 tds 10 ints 150.3 rating
Rushing: 158 atts 948 yds 6.0 avg 13 tds
#gmstrong
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Okay, if Williams is so great, why not just sign him off the street instead of spending a first round pick on Mitch? 
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He was with the Vikings and Packers last year. Packers released him in their final training camp cuts.
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He's not a pro quarterback, doesn't have the necessary skill set, but was a good college quarterback, would be my best guess. He was established as the QB already so it's not easy to replace a proven commodity. It is a concern that he didn't start ahead of Williams but I don't know if you can fault the kid for it, he didn't make that decision, the coaching staff did. When he got his chance he came out and performed.
I'm not as high on Trubinsky as some, and wouldn't take him in the first, but It's hard for me to fault him for not starting earlier.
Last edited by dean_fairchild; 03/22/17 01:31 PM.
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I think the Jets stuff is posturing - as all the evaluations and mocs are starting to settle (based on more accurate intel) the consensus is there isn't a top ten QB in this draft.
I went back and looked at all the drafts where a QB wasnt taken in the top 10 and it looked like the odds of finding quality was lower but there were still some studs.
Mr. Biscuit keeps growing on me - and I think he has answered the question on why he didnt start earlier - he said he thought he won the job
--- williams was a UNC legend, and you cant knock out the champ if you are his backup - he played nice and delivered when it was his turn - if the biskyt stayed and delivered the same results in 2017 - would he be a (1b) to darnold in next years draft ?
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Who knows, maybe the Browns will look at Williams as a RB. LOL
And bro..........you can talk directly to me. I am not thin-skinned. I have no problem if you wanna disagree w/me about Trub. I just don't like when posters use terms like "ridiculous" and that my points are "irrelevant."
I have a question for you, Diam. You have gone on record that you want the Browns to draft Trub w/the first overall pick. Does that mean you have absolutely no concerns about him not being able to beat out a running qb and him only having 13 starts? I can talk directly to u? ... u think i got shy or someone took one of my balls ... *L* .. it isn't just u saying that ... u were more than likely the first, but your other posse has been saying it also .. *L* .. if i want to adress sumptin to U, i will ... u should know me better than that ... we've had knock down drag outs before, I'd be shocked if we don't again ... To answer your questions ... - it doesn't bother me that he couldn't beat out a VERY GOOD QB ... dude was well above average .. and i mean well above average .. he would have been 1st team all ACC both years if he played in almost any other conference ... and may have been conference player of the year his 2nd year ... Williams was a VERY GOOD - GREAT college QB .. he was a grade ahead of Trib ... he started the last 5 or so games of the year Trib red shirted and accounted for himself very well ... Do i wish he could have beat him out .. ABSOLUTELY ... not thrilled he couldn't ... but its not like he couldn't beat out a bum or an average qb ... dude had MAD COLLEGE QB SKILLS .... - i have concerns about the 13 starts .. but it wouldn't keep me from taking him ... obviously if I'd take him at #1 based off what i know now ... I started looking at the 13 start stat a bit ago ... as i asked a month or so ago who were the QB's with less than 2 years worth of starts that went in the 1st round .. i was STUNNED ... the sample size was almost NON EXISTENT ... I'll post it later ... off the top of my head ... i think the entire sample size from 1998 thru last year .... was Akili Smith and Cam Newton depending on how you viewed Cam's starts at the CC he transferred to ... No way can u draw conclusions on that sample size .... no way .... Bottom Line ... i like his skill set ... that outweighs my concerns about the lack of starts ...
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Joined: Sep 2006
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The 13th starts do scare me a bit but all these QBs are gonna need time to develop. I like Trubisky alot. Some teams however are gonna love him especially when I hear Rodgers with the right grooming. I like Mahomes and his Cannon arm better but its really close and if either of these guys was in last years draft I would have had them ahead of Goff and Wentz.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
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Where were Goff and Wentz rated last year as far as where there skill sets were slotted ...
Did they have high 1st round grades unlike any of these guys .. where were they rated in the grand scheme of things ...
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OP
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J/k
I think the conversation about when he was a starter and whether or not he beat someone out are anecdotal and don't have any evaluation merit for me.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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Wish you would have come up w/a better analogy than the one-ball thing? Ouch!
I wasn't looking for a knock-down, drag-out fight. I just find it surprising that you were not acknowledging the lack of starts and the fact that the coaches didn't believe he was the best qb on his college team.
You answered my questions and I respect that. You did so w/out any stupid commentary like saying I am "ridiculous," "irrelevant," and the latest bravado of my concerns being only "anecdotal" and "not having any merit." LOL........Oh man. These guys trip me out.
Btw--------I am not saying that Trub won't be good. I just think he is a very risky pick if drafted w/in the top 15 picks. We disagree on that and that's cool.
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JC Mitch's combine numbers gave me pause. I had to go back and watch some games because his numbers we WAY better than I thought they would be. I didn't seem to remember his slipping as many arm tackles as he actually did. He is a really good athlete and throws the ball well. I've changed my mind on him. I would be fine with him at 12 or a trade up from 12. Could not justify passing on a generational athlete like Garret. and I do mean generational athlete....  
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Film Breakdown: Mitch Trubisky
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