ed, you may want to change the title and leave out Trubisky's name. It might get deleted again as a duplicate thread. Then, just edit your original post and say something like....."Let's start w/Mitch Trubisky."
2nd play ... love how he calmly slides left ... very smooth while keeping his eyes downfield ... eventually runs to the right for the first down ... gave the play plenty of time to develop ... very calm feet while "sliding" to his left ...
1:17 - alot to like on that play ... starting with the OL ... lots of time .... went through his progressions ... started on the left sideline and came all the way back to the right sideline .. no happy feet ... once he made up his mind whee he was going .. the ball got out of his hands ... showed he has plenty of arm strength as the ball got their quick and accurately ...
2:17 - 1st time they really brought pressure ... recognized it pre-snap or recognized it immediately after the snap .. got rid of the ball right away and made an OK throw .. reciever made a real nice catch ... nice play .. good recognition .. not a good throw but the timing was off due to the pressure and it was a catchable ball ..
3:42 - pocket collapsed .. couldn't really step in to it and couldn't follow through at all .. zipped it about 18 yards down the middle .. showed arm strength with pressure directly in front of him ..
5:40 - showed the arm to throw to the sideline from the opposite hash .. was short - intermediate throw from the other hash ..
6:40 - curious as to what u saw on that play ...
7:02 - showed his maneuverability and strength .. nice ..
8:02 - impressive maneuvering in the pocket .. manipulated it well and kept his head up .. very nice ..
Last play - bad decision .. should have thrown it away .. i understand the time constraints but on that one u have to live to fight another day ...
Tail of two halves ..
1st half he had all day to throw .. picked them apart .. showed strong, accurate arm with the ability to manipulate the pocket when need be ...
2nd half - they brought alot more pressure .. he manipulated the pocket well and kept his head up .. DIDN'T LOOK TO RUN FIRST .. and he can run .. hes not a stud running but hes well above average ... i love that he didn't automatically take off ... EVER ...
What u got Ed ..
COME ON GUYS JOIN IN PLEASE .. fresh eyes NEVER HURT ..
We can do that one next ... i actually can't wait ..
How long before u feel comfie this thread will stick around so i can see what u saw .. *L* at see what u saw ... don't ask me why just found that funny .. *L* ...
o easy velocity, doesn't have to 'muscle up' to throw with power (e.g. corner route)
o 1:17 was his best throw of the game for me. He reads through his progression start from left to right and uncorks a sideline comeback/backshoulder throw
o showed some athleticism and willingness to use his legs on few occasions 7:02, 8:00, 1020
o missed throws/inaccurate 2:30. 3:20, 4:15, 5:40, 6:45
o made 3 very poor decisions/ 2 were picked off e.g 6:00, 7:30, 1046 end the game
o has a quick release but not your typical throwing motion, doesn't fully extend his arm his throwing motion reminds me a lot of John Beck/Ryan Tannehill
o good ball handling with play action
-------------------------- once i get home im gonna watch it again
6:40 - curious as to what u saw on that play ... Clean pocket, receiver was interfered with, shows the arm talent dude makes that throw look easy...a lil long a thought but again who knows cuz receiver was impeded
--------------------------------------------- I went through the 1st half again/will post 2nd half tomorrow time permitting:
12s (3rd & 4) Clean pocket. Missed open receiver.- Shuffles/drifts left. But improvs and scrambles to get 1st down.+ Avoided contact.-+
25s Play Action. Roll (L). 17yd throw on the run flashes that big arm.+
38s Clean pocket. Goes through progressions, holds FS, throws the seam Off Target. Like the aggression of the throw though.+-
45s Clean pocket. 30yd corner route. On time,on target for TD. Looks like a half field read. Makes throw with ease shows arm strength.+
1:16 Clean pocket. PA w/ plenty of time. Full field progression. Gets to backside comeback w/ tight coverage. 30 yd throw in the air. Wow throw for arm talent.++
1:46 Clean pocket. PA. ~35 yd seam-post. Great throw.+
2:21 (3rd & 10) Pressure. ID in the face. Throws Out route off backfoot. Off Target low. Nice catch from Bug.+-
2:36 Clean pocket. PA. Rips a dig route 18yd in air. On time, on target. TD on yac.+
2:59 (3rd & 9) Late Pressure. Has functional room. Off Target underthrown Preohl forced to wait on ball TD? -
3:43 Muddy Pocket. OL walked back, has to throw with just arm. Goes thru progression gets to 2nd read. Off Target high (caught).+-
4:00 PA. Pump fake. Late pressure. TE seam in stride.+
4:37 Read Option. Good read. Gets down protects himself from contact.+
4:46 (3rd & 3) Clean pocket. Read (L) to (R). Misses Bug on the hitch/stick. Forces to Proehl broken up/dropped int. Bad Decision.-
5:29 Clean pocket /surrounded. On time to Switzer on the double out; just a hair behind him though. ? Accuracy
5:53 Clean pocket /surrounded. Bad Decision. Into double coverage on Go route. PBU Dropped pickle.-
6:09 Quick pressure. Free rusher. Is reading (R). Evades +. Don’t know where the pre-snap was, IF it was choice he would have been better off starting (L) had Switzer?slot (L) in cut. Meets more pressure on the scramble. Throws off backfoot. Off Target. Bad Decision. -
6:17 (3 & 10) Initial clean pocket. Pressure flashes. Reading (L) I can’t see what’s happening on the read side. Bug comes open on a drag (R) to (L) when the pressure comes. Tries to scramble out, sack. -.5 ? Didn't make a bad play worse.
:52 Hikes the ball on opp 20 yd line...drops back 5 yds and throws it...hits WR i think 6 yds deep in endzone...nice timing throw and good ball placement. WR was wide open, but I thought that play looked well polished, and well executed very well.
Man I love this dudes throwing motion. QUICK release. No wind up. He makes Griffin look silly.
He nails those Outs and Seam Routes. Top notch pocket presence.
Experience is that one damn thing lacking.
I'm going to make an observation here. Watching what he did against FSU. And I saw the entire game. Plus the above footage. There was a name that came to my mind when he was gunning those Seams and those middle TD passes from the Red Zone. I thought to myself, man this dude's gonna be REALLY good in a year or two. I thought the SAME thing when I saw 2 QBs in the past. Those names are:
Luck & Rivers.
If this kid is there with the Philly pick, I'm TAKING him and not looking back. Damn the experience factor. This kid is a POCKET Passer with exceptional mobility.
candy and kwhip, did you see anything from the current game we are discussing that you want to comment on or highlight? any plays that display attributes you like?
I liked what I saw against Duke for the most part ...
- went through his progressions ... - can make all the throws ... above average arm .. - moved well in the pocket, looked to pass 1st ... very atheletic - accurate for the most part ... he did miss some throws ...
He's far from perfect .. so far .. he's intriguing ...
If u got any questions ed .... please ask ... if not, its on to the next game ...
Hey, i'm gonna scale back from posting game notes for each play and just give a recap w/ time stamps.
Doesn't appear to be as much interest as I thought.
What game next? Georgia? (btw the full Georgia game, not the cut-up, is on noonkick)
These are the games cut-ups available thru draftbreakdown/youtube vs Pittsburgh vs Florida State vs Virginia Tech vs Miami vs Virginia vs Duke vs NC State
2015 vs Wake Forest, Duke, & Miami
-------------------------------------------- What game/s would you suggest for Kizer?
Might not be worth planning for 3 games of each w/ this little interest.
U post your times .... i'll post my thoughts with times and we'll go from there ... if no one else wants to play .. nuttin we can do about that .... i'll be learning just from watching the film and stating my thoughts ...
I saw them all ... he had bad 2nd half's in most games ... witch one was the worst? ... huh ... there's a few to choose from ...
Duke i guess ... michigan state ... stanford ... usc ... lots of bad ones .. he stunk in the 2nd half of the Miami game also .. but he did lead a TD drive on the last series to pull it out ... virginia tech ....
Plus displays of arm talent: 18:52 46:48 1:06:00 1:47:00 2:14:57
Improvisation: 1:06:00 2:28:03 2:30:39
Plus progression/cov read: 1:02:45 1:06:00 2:12:54 2:14:57
Movement throw: 1:57:28 2:13:31 Run instincts: -
Tipped: 1:07:58 2:32:40 Throw Away: 1:08:33
Held ball/missed receiver: Off backfoot: 1:02:45 Off target: 19:54 34:48 1:04:32 1:46:20 1:58:53 2:12:54 ? (receiver jumped for ball hard to see though) 2:25:25 2:25:54 (throw away or sailed) 2:27:21 2:30:39
Bad Decisions: 21:57 1:04:32 1:46:20 1:49:05 2:25:54 ? (stop the clock throw from coach? receiver open could have gained and stepped out of bounds) 2:30:39
I've met him in person and he has a lousy personality. I really hope Kizer never gets even close to being drafted by us.
When did you meet him and how old was he? What made him lousy?
I met him at Linebackers. It's the alumni bar for Notre Dame and so the team often comes in there to drink. I don't actually drink but my dad does so I go as a designated driver for him and his buddies.
He has that same arrogant attitude where he looks down on his team mates and the fans that Brady Quinn had. I mean it's one thing to be confident and full of yourself but it's another when you like to mock and look down on other people.
I met him last year a couple of times since the owner will give team free beer sometimes and they never ask the players for their ID. The owner of Linebackers is a cool dude. Pain in the butt to park there though.
He has that same arrogant attitude where he looks down on his team mates and the fans that Brady Quinn had. I mean it's one thing to be confident and full of yourself but it's another when you like to mock and look down on other people.
That's too bad to hear.
Hopefully he wakes up and sees the light. I mean, after-all, didn't Peyton Manning Teabag his trainer at UTenn?
But that's really too bad to hear. Especially since I was kind of hoping for Deshon to possibly be our Philly Pick (Not that that's who I want, but I'd like to look to see if he's an option)
Man, I don't know. I've watched a few cut ups of his games, and he just doesn't strike me as a "This kid is something special." kind of player. Good college QB? Seems like it. But, I'm not sure if it will translate to the NFL.
I personally don't feel he's first round material. Not with the talent in this year's draft that would be less of a risk/reward.
As I always say, if the Browns draft him, I hope he's the greatest QB, ever.
Man, I don't know. I've watched a few cut ups of his games, and he just doesn't strike me as a "This kid is something special." kind of player. Good college QB? Seems like it. But, I'm not sure if it will translate to the NFL.
I personally don't feel he's first round material. Not with the talent in this year's draft that would be less of a risk/reward.
As I always say, if the Browns draft him, I hope he's the greatest QB, ever.
*LOL* ... u made me think of how astronomical the odds are that we have not hit on at least one qb since 1999 ... not one ... think about that ... 18 years and NOTHING ... not one even decent qb in the entire lot ... 17 years worth of crap minus a one hit wonder in DA (oh what a year that was) and a flash in the pan 1/2 year run to the playoffs by Holcomb ... THATS IT!!!!!!
And the proof we haven't even sniffed it ... whose gone on and done much anywhere else ... NO ONE .... DA has been DA as a back up in Carolina ... Hoyer's had a few good games .. thats basically it .. everyone else ... if not directly out of the league ... a very non distinct career hardly ever playing well followed by shortly, quietly being out of the league ... with no one even asking where there at ...
Thats been the one constant. Well other than the losing ... *L* ....
Ed, I found myself primarily counting the seconds from snap to release for the Duke game cut up. I guess it was to get more of an idea on how he looked while in the pocket.
Ed, I found myself primarily counting the seconds from snap to release for the Duke game cut up. I guess it was to get more of an idea on how he looked while in the pocket.
When looking at the QBs, Trubisky is the most ready from day 1. He has the best mechanics, pocket presence, and he makes the most reads. He doesn't have the same physical tools as Kizer, but I've seen Trub throw darts in tight coverage and he can throw it 50 yards off his backfoot. I feel he'd be at worst Alex Smith with a stronger arm. He can be a top 10 QB and can win a super bowl. Kind of in the Ryan / Eli / Flacco category (when they're playing great).
All right Ed ... here's my breakdown on the Georgia game ...
17:52 - throws off back foot ... positive was the arm strength he displayed ... threw if from the hash to the opposite sideline off his back foot and it still had some zip on it ...
20:09 - innacurate throw to a wide open WR for a TD .. BAD ... VERY BAD ...
34:50 - overthrew another WR deep .. two misses and a back foot throw all ready ...
47:15 - wrong shoulder throw to another open WR down the field ...
1:03 and 50 secs - threw it out of bounds ... not good ... have to give the WR a chance ...
1:06 - very good play ... kept it alive with his scrambling and then made a very good strong throw ... this man has an arm that can cut through the wind here in Dec. ..
1:46 - threw it to the wrong reciever .. bad decision ..
1:59 - threw short over the middle ... should have been picked ..
2:15 and 10 secs - WOW PLAY .... sideline throw across field to opposite sideline ... 3rd and 9 play ... what an arm .... WOW .. it was an incomplete pass .. thats how good the throw was ...
2:26 - another innacurate throw .. threw it high to sideline ... ...
4th and 3 to end game .. HORRIBLE ... just as bad as the wow throw was good .. *L* ..
He did not look good at all in this game ... he threw off his back foot to much ... was very innacurate and made some bad decisions .. with that said ... u could still see the qualities he brings to the table that are positive ... arm strength, quick release and mobility, scrambling ability ... his accuracy was not on display today ... to inconsistent ..
I think its fair to say that there were some nerves and a general lack of being settled in. This was essentially his 1st game as 'thee' guy.
I forgot the throw @ 47:15; that makes 10 missed throws on my count to go along with 5 bad decisions. Granted some of the misses were on deep balls which by their nature are low % throws; but from a clean pocket want to see better only had 5 plays where he was under pressure.
Play 2:26 still can't decide whether it was off target or if he was throwing it out of bounds...
Definitely has a big arm. Couldn't gauge the helmet direction very well but I saw 4 plays that look like he checking the full progression. He was able to evade or improvise on 8 plays.
So you're saying Watson can do this same feat of strength? Can you back that up with anything? I mean a QB moving around that kind of weight is pretty darn rare so would love it if you could prove it about Watson too... Otherwise how can you possibly think they are the same considering what is being talked about here.
Did you not see Watson take those hits against Alabama in the title game?
Back it up? Watch the game, dude. Watson has the same height and weight measurements, and yet put up 1000 yards rushing the 2015 season, and a ton of more yards this season as well.
Honestly it's gotten to the point you're hating him just to hate. Watson is more athletic than Trubisky while having the same build.
You don't follow conversations well at times swish.
Candyman says, "I think he's strong enough to play QB in the NFL."
We are talking about lifting up 325 pounds of weight. This requires a certain amount of strength that goes beyond appearances.
To which I said, "So you're saying Watson can do this same feat of strength? Can you back that up with anything? I mean a QB moving around that kind of weight is pretty darn rare so would love it if you could prove it about Watson too."
There is no hate in that statement. I don't hate Watson. I said I would love to see you show Watson doing the same kinds of feats of strength because you say they are the same while we are talking about lifting weights to show how strong the player is.
So back it up by showing something that says, Watson can do the same thing. Maybe he can for all I know. I didn't make the claim that they are the same...you did.
Again I don't have any hate in me for any of these QBs. How in the world could I possibly know them well enough to love or hate them. That's just silly to me. There are things I don't like about Watson's game but I backup my observations with film breakdown and lengthy discussion that I always try to keep civil for the most part. So, I object to you saying crap like, "Honestly it's gotten to the point you're hating him just to hate." I think your out of line by saying that.
I think "strength" is overrated at QB. Brady Quinn could move the weights coming out of college. Tom Brady looked like he kind of had the physique of a middle schooler.
At positions that are regularly engaged in contact, "strength" is obviously more important.
I'm not sure how much Watson lifts in the weight room, but he seems to have the leg drive to finish runs through defenders on tape. He's also taken some pretty good hits and bounced back up no problem.
Here's a link to a video of him in the weight room if you're into that sort of thing:
I worry more about a QBs ability to throw the ball and read defenses. I'm not so concerned about his physical capability as far as being able to give an O-Lineman a piggyback ride.
I think Watson passes any athletic/physical threshold that is required of a QB in the NFL.
As far as throwing the ball and reading defenses, the jury is still out to me. I'm warming a little, but it's hard to tell without being in the meeting room.
Nice post grimm. Do you know how much weight that is? I can't read the numbers on the plates for some reason.
Here is a rookie badddd arse qb lifting weights. Jebus he is strong for a QB! Guess that's why his name is Jalen Hurts. Either he hits hard or his back is killing him lol!!!
You will NEVER EVER EVER hear me say take a QB that has so few starts in College. EVER.
I'm huge on the games started thing. Preferably in the 35 games range with great accuracy.
BUT.
Just looking at Trubisky, he just spews NFL QB to me. Very few in the past have hit me like that. Two notables are the obvious one in Luck. The other was Rivers at NC State. Awkward throwing motion and all. It was the Ohio State game that year that locked me in.
ED. I just don't have the time to breaking down play by play on anyone.
BUT.
That last drive against Stanford tells me everything I needed to know and confirm. This dude is Mr. Cool in the pocket under the gun in the 4th quarter trailing.
If we like him, TAKE HIM. This all pending if we go after Garoppolo, which I hope we do.
Take a shot. We positioned ourselves with extra picks. We also have the 12 pick. We have 2 2nd rounders. USE them if we see a QB we love.
Also fall in love with Watson and Kiser and Trubisky is sitting there at 12.
Garrett and Trubisky at 1 & 12 is a DREAM come true.
I think all three will be gone by 12, maybe Kizer remains, but we'll see. Lots of teams need QBs, don't have one and there's usually a rush on them in the top 15.
I saw some in the bowl game, too. More of the evasion/slipping variety than "strength." I honestly just thought correlating ability to hang clean and being "hard to take down" wasn't the best comparison, especially when one somehow twisted it into a knock on Watson.
While trying to check out Mitch's ability to break tackles, I did think he displayed pretty good ability to manipulate the pocket and avoid the rush.
It did look like he could use more seasoning though. Those two picks to Stanford's SS were killer. His receivers did let him down a bit with some drops.
I guess for me it never really mattered how a QB evades, (i.e. by strength or elusiveness) or how they improvise it only matters to me that they can......and how often they effectively make those plays.
The only reason Trub lifting big heavy weights means anything is that bigger, stronger muscles tend to be more DENSE. Muscles that are more dense can cause a bit of an armor effect that protects against injuries aka he can take a bigger hit.
That being said, no matter how big you are if you get hit the right way things will break no matter how big and bad arse you are.
A player with really strong legs can be much harder to take down with a tackle though so Trub will enjoy that as an advantage transitioning to the NFL. After all its better to start off stronger than weaker =)
Not a film breakdown, but the other Trubisky thread is locked:
Quote:
There are two knocks on Trubisky: 1) Scouts aren’t sure how tall he’ll measure out, and 2) he only started one year at North Carolina, unable to beat out Marquise Williams before that. Taking that into account, Trubisky’s anticipation, accuracy, touch and experience with progression reads put him atop the class.
“I’ll be shocked if Trubisky’s not the first one off the board,” said our AFC exec. A scout for another AFC team added, “You’re gonna see the ascension of the Carolina quarterback. He’s the guy, a top-two or -three pick. He’s the guy. A lot of teams like him up there.”
So here’s the question: Are you comfortable taking an Andy Dalton or Teddy Bridgewater in the top five? The truth is, Trubisky’s promise is in offering a team stability—but not necessarily superstardom—at the most important position.
btw...he fell mostly to rumors spread out there...one of which was an rumor about an injury. This was pre combine where they did medical stuff for all.
Oh and the rumor about who was spreading the Rumor was none other than the Dolphins
yep it was an Injury rumor that dropped him. It was an amazing draft for QBs. Marino was an excellent QB but I think he gets over rated in the All time QB rankings.
Well it was a long time ago...so don't know what googling will get you. Just going on memory. Its ok...you can believe or not no skin off my back. JmhRecollection.
I can't remember if it was in 30 for 30 Elway to Marino but I definitely remember hearing about the Marino drug rumor as a reason why he fell...AND...that there was a NFL team/scout that actually had the drug test that cleared Marino but didn't release/pass.....
Anywho....anybody want to talk about any of Mitch's Film?
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on March 02, 2017 at 3:34 PM, updated March 02, 2017 at 5:09 PM
INDIANAPOLIS - The Browns are strongly considering drafting hometown boy Mitch Trubisky No. 1 overall, league sources tell cleveland.com.
Trubisky, the Mentor, Ohio, native, checked off one of Hue Jackson's major boxes Thursday when he measured 6-foot-2 1/8 at the NFL Combine.
One top NFL personnel executive told cleveland.com Thursday that he'd definitely take Trubisky No. 1 now that he measured over 6-1. "He's got size, he can move, he sees the field, has a big arm and more upside than Carson Wentz last year. They'd be set,'' he said.
Scouts had told NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock that Trubisky would be closer to 6-1 than the 6-3 he's listed at in his North Carolina bio.
Most draft experts, including Jackson's good friend Mike Silver of NFL Network, have the Browns taking Texas A&M pass-rusher Myles Garrett No. 1 overall, but that's not a lock.
"I'm almost positive that they'll do the no-brainer thing at No. 1 and take Myles Garrett, the very talented pass rusher out of Texas A&M,'' Silver said on NFL Network Wednesday. "It's early in the Combine, but the more I talk to talent evaluators that I respect, the more that I realize this is even more of a slam dunk in those people's minds than Jadeveon Clowney a few years back. They're thinking this is a generational pass rusher that has so much talent off the edge.
"Not only is he the clearcut choice at No. 1, but there is no obvious No. 2 sitting there. It's a draft where people think 2 and 25 could be about the same range of players. Very deep draft at the top but not crazy top-heavy. The top-heavy is Myles Garrett and whatever quarterback you may fall in love with."
Asked about such reports here Thursday, Jackson said it's too early to say.
"Obviously he's a tremendous player,'' Jackson said. "There's a lot of good players in this draft. It's just so early for us to determine exactly where we are. All those things will be discussed and thrown around as we continue to move forward.''
Trubisky is one of about four players on the Browns' radar at No. 1, but he could have a slight edge given that Jackson said at the Senior Bowl a good quarterback would trump an elite non-QB. The three other top candidates are Garrett, Clemson quarterback Deshaun Watson and Alabama pass-rusher Jonathan Allen.
Jackson insisted Thursday that the Browns don't have the top quarterbacks ranked yet.
"We kind of have an idea, but there's no final, final (ranking) right now,'' he said. "I think we have an idea heading into it who are the guys that we really want to see more and find out more about, but I think it's way early to make a decision about exactly where that position is."
But Trubisky's 13 college starts and the fact he couldn't beat out Marquise Williams his first two years won't scare him off.
"It's a small sample size, but at the same time he still played,'' Jackson said. "I don't think that's what's important. If a guy demonstrates the characteristics you're looking for, it's important to keep digging and find out more, but I don't get concerned about that part of it as long as a guy can do what we need him to do."
The Browns will meet with Trubisky and the other top quarterbacks here at the Combine, and one of things they'll grill the former Tar Heel on is the pressure of playing for his hometown team. He's made it clear he wants to play for the Browns, and proudly wore his Browns gear on jersey days at North Carolina.
"All those things are important,'' said Jackson. "Some guys play better when they're at home, some guys don't. We'd have to know all those things. And we'll do the digging on all these guys that way.''
Jackson reiterated the three things he's looking for in a quarterback, and Trubisky seems to fit the bill: 1. Arm talent 2. Processing ability and 3. Face-of-the-franchise qualities.
Trubisky's college coach, Larry Fedora, raved about him in all three categories.
"Mitch Trubisky will be the face of somebody's organization and he will make them proud,'' Fedora told cleveland.com. "He'll never embarrass them. He's as solid a person as there is. He's the kind of person you'd want to be the face of your organization and he's a program-changer. Somebody's going to be able to build around him and have that piece of the puzzle. And at that level, that piece of the puzzle is extremely important.''
As for arm talent, Fedora said, "His accuracy is phenomenal. He's the most accurate quarterback I've ever coached or been around, and there's been some good ones. Mitch can put the ball exactly where he wants to put it. He can do it whether he's balanced or unbalanced. He can do it off his back foot, leaning, he can do it from a 3/4 pro to a sidearm. He can put the ball where he needs to put it, and that's very unique.
"He can make every throw but on top of everything, he makes really good decisions.''
In regards to processing, he said the Tar Heels put a lot on Trubisky's plate as far as "post-snap reads, whether or not we're going to run the football, throw it based on different keys. He doesn't throw it into coverage and he understands where to go with the ball. He's done a really good job of taking care of the football and we preach that.''
He added, "he's a quick learner. I can assure you, with his work ethic, those things are not going to be a problem. If he's taken No. 1 overall, he's qualified for it, no doubt.''
Of course, what the Browns do at No. 1 will be impacted by whether or not they can trade for Jimmy Garoppolo. Sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter they're not trading him, but some personnel executives here are still skeptical of that. The Browns, who will likely have some Garoppolo meetings here, should know by the end of this week whether or not that's true.
In the meantime, Jackson addressed head of football operations Sashi Brown's sentiments that he'd be OK if the Browns headed into 2017 with the current three QBs on the roster: Robert Griffin III, Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan.
"It could happen that way - not that we want it to be that way, but that the same time, that's a reality too,'' Jackson said. "But we're going to do everything we can to go find a quarterback for the Cleveland Browns."
And they might find him right in their own backyard.
I've been saying all along the only way we do not take Garrett is if Hue is sold on Tribusky. This is a tremendously strong draft for the D in the first two rounds. I would not mind 3 Impact picks on the D as long as Hue is 100% sold on Trib...getting our franchise QB is worth it to me. I know the place will go wild. I can see mac leading the Lord of the Flies movement...lol
I want Garrett...but if we get our Franchise QB out of this...its worth it in the long run. We will get some outstanding players in the draft!
I will be happy either way...ergo my HOMER status...lol
I think this is more of the draft games we see. In the same 24 hours Browns say they will listen to offers at number 1, then we will consider Mitch at 1. This is to get other team thinking that want Mitch and will move up to get him. I don't think that Hue wants him that bad, and I think they are taking the focus off the QB they really want and they need to get him at 12. Until free agency is over and we see what teams that need a OB in front of us at 12 it all games.
1, Whether accurate or not, a lot of people are comparing Trubisky to Wentz. If Wentz was coming out this year, knowing what we new last draft day would you (generic group you) take Garret of Wentz #1 overall? A lot of people were really high on Wentz.
2, Say that there was some obscure NFL rule that caused Wentz to have to re-enter the draft this year. Knowing what we know now about Wentz would you (again generic group you) take Garret or Wentz?
If Hue wants him ... its going to have to be at #1 ... he ain't lasting til 12 ...
And if we do this ... the reaction in here alone would be worth it ... *L*
There would be a lot of angry posters and I suppose a few happy ones.
...Just take Garrett.
I love MITCH .. imo him and JG are the only two good options at QB this year ..... as much as I love MITCH ... and no way he will be there at 12 ... I'd take MG and never look back ...
1, Whether accurate or not, a lot of people are comparing Trubisky to Wentz. If Wentz was coming out this year, knowing what we new last draft day would you (generic group you) take Garret of Wentz #1 overall? A lot of people were really high on Wentz.
2, Say that there was some obscure NFL rule that caused Wentz to have to re-enter the draft this year. Knowing what we know now about Wentz would you (again generic group you) take Garret or Wentz?
1, Whether accurate or not, a lot of people are comparing Trubisky to Wentz. If Wentz was coming out this year, knowing what we new last draft day would you (generic group you) take Garret of Wentz #1 overall? A lot of people were really high on Wentz.
2, Say that there was some obscure NFL rule that caused Wentz to have to re-enter the draft this year. Knowing what we know now about Wentz would you (again generic group you) take Garret or Wentz?
Wentz in a heartbeat ...
Just playing devil's advocate here. If that is the case and Mitch is being compared to Wentz. Why would you not take Mitch over Garrett?
1, Whether accurate or not, a lot of people are comparing Trubisky to Wentz. If Wentz was coming out this year, knowing what we new last draft day would you (generic group you) take Garret of Wentz #1 overall? A lot of people were really high on Wentz.
2, Say that there was some obscure NFL rule that caused Wentz to have to re-enter the draft this year. Knowing what we know now about Wentz would you (again generic group you) take Garret or Wentz?
Wentz in a heartbeat ...
Just playing devil's advocate here. If that is the case and Mitch is being compared to Wentz. Why would you not take Mitch over Garrett?
1, Whether accurate or not, a lot of people are comparing Trubisky to Wentz. If Wentz was coming out this year, knowing what we new last draft day would you (generic group you) take Garret of Wentz #1 overall? A lot of people were really high on Wentz.
2, Say that there was some obscure NFL rule that caused Wentz to have to re-enter the draft this year. Knowing what we know now about Wentz would you (again generic group you) take Garret or Wentz?
Wentz in a heartbeat ...
Just playing devil's advocate here. If that is the case and Mitch is being compared to Wentz. Why would you not take Mitch over Garrett?
Because Mitch doesn't have a year in the NFL of film on him .. we've seen Wentz in the league for a year ... I could care less about comparisions ...
I would be fine with him or Jimmy G. at 12 but to pass on a generational talent like Garret or Allen for a question mark? That will drive some people over the edge...
Mitchell Trubisky definitely sounds less like a QB than Mitch. But Mitchell also doesn't rhyme with a curse word, so there's that.
Hate the name Mitchell Trubisky. This isn't going to work for him. He'll continue to be Mitch. Nothing he can do about it.
It's like when my buddy Jamie tried to get everyone to call him James. Just didn't work out. He might be insecure about his name, but he's Jamie. And that is just what it is
I've been saying all along the only way we do not take Garrett is if Hue is sold on Tribusky. This is a tremendously strong draft for the D in the first two rounds. I would not mind 3 Impact picks on the D as long as Hue is 100% sold on Trib...getting our franchise QB is worth it to me. I know the place will go wild. I can see mac leading the Lord of the Flies movement...lol
I want Garrett...but if we get our Franchise QB out of this...its worth it in the long run. We will get some outstanding players in the draft!
I will be happy either way...ergo my HOMER status...lol
You are assuming that Hue knows what he is doing. I agree, if we get it right, great move selecting Mitch. If not, we waste at least 3 years with him while Garrett is on the way to the HOF, then we need another 3 years to maybe get it right, and while in that time span, we die of natural causes.
I've been saying all along the only way we do not take Garrett is if Hue is sold on Tribusky. This is a tremendously strong draft for the D in the first two rounds. I would not mind 3 Impact picks on the D as long as Hue is 100% sold on Trib...getting our franchise QB is worth it to me. I know the place will go wild. I can see mac leading the Lord of the Flies movement...lol
I want Garrett...but if we get our Franchise QB out of this...its worth it in the long run. We will get some outstanding players in the draft!
I will be happy either way...ergo my HOMER status...lol
You are assuming that Hue knows what he is doing. I agree, if we get it right, great move selecting Mitch. If not, we waste at least 3 years with him while Garrett is on the way to the HOF, then we need another 3 years to maybe get it right, and while in that time span, we die of natural causes.
Well if Hue doesn't know what he is doing we are hosed for the next few years anyway. I think this is the guys that Haslem wants ro hitch his wagon to so we are really hosed if they are clueless regardless.
As far as Tribisky, I like him the most out of all these guys, but man I don't like the idea of passing on Garret/Allen. I really hope if we go that route we are ready to build around him for the long term and he is worth it.
Every time I see this thread bumped I get excited that people actually going to talk football talk about the plays from some game break down some of the x's and o's dot dot dot dot dot everytime I Come Away disappointed
Well if he doesn't know what he's doing fire him now.
I'll take the word of oh...HUNDREDS of NFL coaches and players that Hue knows Offense and knows QBs. So If I as a fan cannot trust his evaluations...who should I trust? Mayock? Kiper? People on this board?
As noted I hope we get Garrett, I think there is a possibility of MT dropping to 12. I also think BB would go for our 33 and 2018 extra 2nd round pick for sure on JG.
But this franchise has been missing one thing in particular and that is a Franchise QB, The #22 picks just don't do it.
And we would have 3 other impact picks along with a possible active FA stud movement. To bolster up our D.
Again if Hue is sold on it...I'm there we will be a good team no matter who we draft. But we will never be a playoff team without that QB. jmho
Then he and the Coaching staff better be here his entire Rookie contract.
I don't care if everyone sucks.
At least we can say we tried for once.
I actually agree with that even if it sounds stupid. These guys get to ride the glory if he makes it, or they get to sleep in that uncomfortable bed for 4 years.
This could all be posturing to get the Bears or Niners to trade up to take Mitch, and we are still in position to get either Garrett or Allen.
To help this along, we don't have to demand a gold mine of picks. Say this years 2nd. That's it. Then we have enough picks to trade up from 12 to get the guy I think Hue really likes, D. Watson.
The Titans want to trade down from 5. Seems we could move to their spot with out 12th selection and whatever else it might take. It's not like we don't have picks to offer, both this year and next.
As with just about any thread, once the original specific topic has been exhausted, the thread becomes a catch-all for any discussion about that topic generally.
Yes it is.. He also told Mooch that Mitch was fine as well. Coach had him on the white board today and had him wear a Browns helmet. Lmao. He took it all in good spirit.. He looked pretty good in it actually.....
Just like with the Myles Garret thing, it's a maturity issue. Who gives a [censored] if people call you Mitch. Really? If I was about to make 20 million dollars you could call me idiot and I wouldn't care. I don't like premadonnas and MITCH isn't even close to having the prospect clout to get away with it.
If the worst thing about him is that he wants to be called by his proper name ... well ... that's really not bad at a
I write my full name what I sign up for classes or volunteer work. Initially they call me "Christopher", and no one makes a fuss when I ask them to call me "Chris". I am sure that if I wanted to be called Christopher, and I wrote "Christopher" as my name, then it would not be out of line to ask that I be called by that name either.
Man, no wonder so many people dislikes Mitchell Schwartz.
Every time I see this thread bumped I get excited that people actually going to talk football talk about the plays from some game break down some of the x's and o's dot dot dot dot dot everytime I Come Away disappointed
I just watched the Stanford game ... if u wanna watch it and break it down let me know ... I'll go first ...
He does lock his front leg on throws down the middle ... couldn't tell if he did it on throws,tomhis right ... he's fine on throws to his left ...
I have more film to watch on both of them ... the more I watch of MITCH the more comfie I am with him at #1 ...
I may even end up preferring him by April ... depends on the rest of the film I watch on both of them ... for me ... this has moved from no-brainer territory ...
I'm up for discussing the game, I'm proly not gonna do write out a full breakdown though. I'll keep it in my head as always but its too much work to write out the breakdown when its just us that even bothers to watch the all the plays lol
“Trubisky is polished, even though he’s only [started one season at North Carolina], which bothers me. But even though he’s only [started] one year, you can see the quick feet. Three step, five step, ball comes out. Quick feet, quick release and accurate. I really like him.”--Mayock
“Trubisky is polished, even though he’s only [started one season at North Carolina], which bothers me. But even though he’s only [started] one year, you can see the quick feet. Three step, five step, ball comes out. Quick feet, quick release and accurate. I really like him.”--Mayock
I wonder why Trub could not beat out Marquise Williams?
While Williams isn't necessarily a high level NFL prospect, he was considered a very good college QB. I know it was a close competition two years ago, and they might have gone with what they knew instead of what they didn't.
Maybe had to do with the offense that UNC was running and hte personnel in it? Just some ideas.
When Conn played UNC a couple years ago, the commentators kept on raving about Williams. I wasn't overly impressed, but the ESPN folks seemed to love him
I wonder why Trub could not beat out Marquise Williams?
While Williams isn't necessarily a high level NFL prospect, he was considered a very good college QB. I know it was a close competition two years ago, and they might have gone with what they knew instead of what they didn't.
Maybe had to do with the offense that UNC was running and hte personnel in it? Just some ideas.
When Conn played UNC a couple years ago, the commentators kept on raving about Williams. I wasn't overly impressed, but the ESPN folks seemed to love him
Isn't Williams a lot more mobile - a scrambling QB which is so "sought after" by college teams nowadays??? I am pretty sure I heard that as one of the possible reasons.
I wonder why Trub could not beat out Marquise Williams?
Lots of possible reasons, many were already mentioned.
Is the UNC head coach any good?Perhaps he just isn't very good at judging talent? Willie Parker barely played for his college team. Kizer didn't come into this year as the starter at ND, why is noone asking why he couldn't beat out Zaire?
Every time I see this thread bumped I get excited that people actually going to talk football talk about the plays from some game break down some of the x's and o's dot dot dot dot dot everytime I Come Away disappointed
Sorry Ed, but that's not my strength. I'm simply a journeyman, not a technician...
I wonder why Trub could not beat out Marquise Williams?
Lots of possible reasons, many were already mentioned.
Is the UNC head coach any good?Perhaps he just isn't very good at judging talent? Willie Parker barely played for his college team. Kizer didn't come into this year as the starter at ND, why is noone asking why he couldn't beat out Zaire?
Maybe because no one is suggesting that the Browns pass on Garrett for Kizer.
And are you suggesting my question was lame? Seriously?
Back? Nah, I've always been here. I just don't know why your ass has to get chapped when someone responds to something that you asked.
Relax. It's their opinion and no one said your question was lame. People just answered it. That's all. I'd suggest stopping the need to immediately go towards unnecessary, aggressive commentary when someone provides a legitimate response.
I wonder why Trub could not beat out Marquise Williams?
Lots of possible reasons, many were already mentioned.
Is the UNC head coach any good?Perhaps he just isn't very good at judging talent? Willie Parker barely played for his college team. Kizer didn't come into this year as the starter at ND, why is noone asking why he couldn't beat out Zaire?
I think it could be as simple as he kept getting better, but he may have started a good ways behind Williams. He may have just needed reps.
He still does need reps.
It also could tie into his "leadership" ability. He doesn't really strike me as a guy that grabs the reins. He can do it, but I'm not sure it is really his nature to do it. Being humble and "waiting your turn" can be a double-edged sword.
It also could relate to his nickname being "Mr. Biscuit" (per his UNC bio- Link ), how do you take that guy seriously?
I'm not a QB guru, so can you tell me what it means when he locks his front leg and why that's a bad thing, thanks.
Locking the front leg can be a problem because:
--it can lead to higher throws because you are not transferring your weight properly
--cause problems w/your over the top motion and has a tendency to have more of a chance of dropping down towards a side-arm throw
--leads to injury when being hit by low by defenders
I think that this is one of the biggest differences between throwing a football and throwing a baseball. Pitchers lock that front leg all the time. It helps w/cut fastballs and similar pitches. It gives you movement on your pitch. You don't want that in football.
I think you want to have an "athletic" lower body when throwing a football, where you are generating a lot of power through your hips. This not only helps w/velocity, but is huge when determining accuracy.
As to your question Vers .. when I saw it I said I'd like to ask the coach a couple questions ...
- why ..
- after seeing what he did in his 1st year .. if u could go back and do it again .. would u make the same decision ..
But at the least no of the day .. I would give it zero weight .. what I saw on film would override it ..
If u put a lot of weight on the fact he didn't start last year .. your looking for reasons not to draft him .. and there's nothing wrong with that .. but thats what your doing with a years full of tape since then ..
Well bro, I think there are some leadership issues there. Believe me, I knew the answer[s] before I posted the question.
Well talk to me .. what r the issues and your source(s) .. and I don't mean a link .. your words good with me .. just curious as to where u got that info from ..
also was the info before or after this year ... if before .. any clue how he faired/improved in that area over,the season .. that's why I would like to ask coach what his impressions were after the season ..
I didn't use one source. That would be ignorant. I googled the question and read all kinds of articles on the subject.
Basically, what I inferred from reading all of those articles was that Fedora [NC's HC] preferred Wiliams' experience/leadership. He did have Trub playing the third offensive series of each game and then go from there. He later abandoned that because he thought the team wasn't responding well to the switch.
This went on for two years, bro.
It could be a total blunder by Fedora. However, one has to wonder why a blah qb like Williams who had very little talent, especially in the passing game, was able to hold off the guy some people want to choose first overall in the draft.
Sorry bro, but that seems like a huge gamble to me.
I didn't use one source. That would be ignorant. I googled the question and read all kinds of articles on the subject.
Basically, what I inferred from reading all of those articles was that Fedora [NC's HC] preferred Wiliams' experience/leadership. He did have Trub playing the third offensive series of each game and then go from there. He later abandoned that because he thought the team wasn't responding well to the switch.
This went on for two years, bro.
It could be a total blunder by Fedora. However, one has to wonder why a blah qb like Williams who had very little talent, especially in the passing game, was able to hold off the guy some people want to choose first overall in the draft.
Sorry bro, but that seems like a huge gamble to me.
And thats why I said I would like to talk to coach .. to see what his rear view mirror looked like ..
I wonder why Trub could not beat out Marquise Williams?
Lots of possible reasons, many were already mentioned.
Is the UNC head coach any good?Perhaps he just isn't very good at judging talent? Willie Parker barely played for his college team. Kizer didn't come into this year as the starter at ND, why is noone asking why he couldn't beat out Zaire?
Maybe because no one is suggesting that the Browns pass on Garrett for Kizer.
And are you suggesting my question was lame? Seriously?
Not sure where that came from. You asked a question and I offered my thoughts on it. Not sure how that translates to suggesting your question was lame.
I think that there are about 3 people on the planet suggesting that we take Trub at #12 I think the question about drafting him is should we take him at #12 if he is available. Kizer should be in that discussion as well.
--I see way more people wanting Trub in the first round than Kizer. I really don't know if anyone is championing us drafting Kizer in round one.
--This is a Trub thread, not a Kizer thread. Heck, does he even have his own thread?
--Zaire was a way better qb prospect than Williams was.
With all that said..........we can ask your question. I wouldn't draft Kizer w/the first overall pick either. But, none of that diminishes the question I had about Trub.
When I asked the question about Kizer it was a toss in comment of a related thought that came to mind.
I am not asking why no one on here is asking the question but why no one period is asking. Mayock has him as his #1 overall Qb. I hear Mayock asking the Trub question all the time yet never a mention about Kizer.
Williams was established at UNC when Trub got there. He led UNC to several good seasons. Zaire had never established himself.
Maybe they just attribute that to Brian Kelly being a bozo of a headcoach having no idea what he's doing.
When I asked the question about Kizer it was a toss in comment of a related thought that came to mind.
I am not asking why no one on here is asking the question but why no one period is asking. Mayock has him as his #1 overall Qb. I hear Mayock asking the Trub question all the time yet never a mention about Kizer.
Williams was established at UNC when Trub got there. He led UNC to several good seasons. Zaire had never established himself.
Maybe they just attribute that to Brian Kelly being a bozo of a headcoach having no idea what he's doing.
Not to far off on the Kelly comment ..
I have no clue how good dude from NC was .. but I can tell u he couldn't be less accurate,than Zaire ... he may be just as innacurate but no way was he more ... *L*
Sad part .. if Zaire don't get hurt ... no ... what I was going to say wasn't accurate either ... *L* ..
I think your facts are off. Williams was not even the starter. Bryn Renner was a fifth year starter. He got hurt early on and they replaced him w/Williams [who can't hit the broad side of a barn] instead of giving the ball to Trub. The next year, they went w/Williams again and I kinda explained the rest to Diam in an earlier post.
I want nothing to do with Kizer. He even looked terrible in the combine drills.
Since this thread is about Trub ....
Watching his interviews something about him rubs me the wrong way. I don't know what it is but I have a bad vibe about him now that I didn't before. I don't know that it matters or not though. I do worry the big lights might have a negative effect on his personality though. It's just a feeling though nothing remotely bad enough to discount him. He still has the best skill set of the top QBs in this draft.
I have patrick pretty high on my wish list. Maybe at round 2? He would be fun to watch at least =)
Somebody is going to play the sucker and put a huge investment in a kid with 13 starts. Whoever that is will most likely lose their job for it in the end.
So even though two out of those three had more starts than Mtrub, only one has found any real success in the NFL and that is Cam. Unless of course unless you would want Tannehill as your franchise QB? I wouldn't.
I haven't seen anyone who really believes Mtrub is the next Cam Newton so unless you think one of the other two would be a good pick for your franchise QB, I believe my post still stands.
And that was my only question about Wentz was his limited starts. But there were two seasons to watch film of and I felt that with even so few starts, there was enough to endorse drafting him.
So your train of thought is to simply NEVER TRY AND GET OUR FRANCHISE QB. Odds are they fail as the rate is around 50%. If Hue thinks this kid has GROWN as a QB over the last year to be a PROSPECT for a Franchise QB...I don't see the error in taking him at 12. I will not change my mind from yours or any other QB evaluations on this Board.
We got to pursue the holy grail. 13 starts is meaningless at this stage. Actually 3 years starting in a One Read Spread Offense might be worse as the REPETITION will be harder to break.
The key is Accuracy, Arm Strength, Footwork and Football Intelligence along with being able to be coached up. If Hue Jackson who know a boat load more than anyone on this board decides HE IS THE GUY...I'm there.
And yes pit .. the amount of college starts scares me .. but not enough to not draft him .. i really like this kid ...
A couple things about the success of the one year wonder college kids ... and i am not arguing your point .. the NUMBERS support u by about 98% - 2% ... i may be dumb but i ain't stupid enough to argue that one .. *L* ..
- your saying if Mitch stood in school one more year he would be draftable because then he would have the required number of college starts ... in essence thats what your saying ...
I'm not sure how that correlates ... maybe there first year or two in the league .. but after that .. i don't see any correlation at all ...
I'd also like to see a list of the QB's that were one year wonders ... i would venture to guess a lot of them are guys coming out of "gimmicky" offenses and guys that are more atheletic than good QB's ...
I really like this kid's skill set ... only negative to me is him locking his front leg ... love his ACCURACY, decision making was very good and hes atheletic .... so I'm certainly not going to pass on him cause of the number of starts he made in college ...
Sorry ... that makes no sense to me ..
This is all mute ... were gonna take MG at 1 and Mitch won't be there at 12 ...
What my point is more than anything is having a body of evidence. I don't believe 13 starts gives you a large enough body of evidence on a kid. There's a reason an argument on that would only have a 2% chance as you stated.
Drafting based on potential rather than a strong body of evidence when it comes to QB's has killed a lot of careers.
I'm not saying the kid can't or won't be good. But I'll stand with your quote about it being 98% to 2%. I really hate those odds.
What my point is more than anything is having a body of evidence. I don't believe 13 starts gives you a large enough body of evidence on a kid. There's a reason an argument on that would only have a 2% chance as you stated.
Drafting based on potential rather than a strong body of evidence when it comes to QB's has killed a lot of careers.
I'm not saying the kid can't or won't be good. But I'll stand with your quote about it being 98% to 2%. I really hate those odds.
While I agree with you that we don't have enough evidence to know if Trubisky is good, the team can increase those odds by meeting with him, working him out, etc.
I would never draft Trubisky with the first pick, but I will understand if we draft him with the 12th pick.
I don't really have a problem with those who disagree.
I just can't wrap my mind around using a pick in the first half of the first round on a QB with only 13 NCAA starts. History would dictate that won't end well.
There's so much talent in this draft and we need so much help on D, I can't see taking such a huge gamble on a kid with so little experience at the NCAA level.
I'm not going to lambaste anyone who disagrees with me. Just laying out the logic as to my thought process.
I don't really have a problem with those who disagree.
I just can't wrap my mind around using a pick in the first half of the first round on a QB with only 13 NCAA starts. History would dictate that won't end well.
There's so much talent in this draft and we need so much help on D, I can't see taking such a huge gamble on a kid with so little experience at the NCAA level.
I'm not going to lambaste anyone who disagrees with me. Just laying out the logic as to my thought process.
I understand your position Pit but I just think this kid will be something special and would hate to see him playing elsewhere ...
Well it's great that you "have a feeling", but history dictates this wouldn't be a smart move. I tried to take my feelings out of drafting a long time ago and look at the facts and draft history.
Well it's great that you "have a feeling", but history dictates this wouldn't be a smart move. I tried to take my feelings out of drafting a long time ago and look at the facts and draft history.
I think draft history of QBs can be thrown out the window.
1. QBs are coming out earlier than before. So the GOLDEN 3 year starter or 40 starts rule is out the window.
2. The Spread one read offenses have taken over College football. Its hard to figure out who are the pretenders and who are the real deals via stats over whatever period of time.
There is only one way to evaluate QBs now and that is on their Technique and football intelligence as well as how Hue puts it. Arm...something, crap I forgot what he says...lol
I think this is a new era of College QBs and their evaluations. So you can throw that 98-2% out the window. Lets just hope Hue gets it right
I always hope our FO and coaching staff gets it right. I mean I'm as tired or more of seeing our team lose as anyone else. So no matter who is in the drivers seat, I always hope for the best. Because I don't really care who makes our team successful as long as it happens.
And to an extent, I do agree with you. I do believe the three years, 40 starts model is outdated. It's also almost impossible to find true pocket QB's from an NFL style O anymore.
Where we disagree is that 13 starts is the new model. I actually advocated we draft Wentz last year after only 23 starts. But that's within 3 games of having double the starts as Mtrub has.
Somewhere there has to be a threshold of minimum experience to give you a body of evidence. The only real place that we disagree is that I don't believe that 13 starts meets that threshold.
All I'm saying Pit. Accuracy, Arm Strength, Processing/Football Intelligence over rides the conditions that created Only 13 starts...Its not a new model. It just means you got to do your homework and be certain about the Important variables above not the variable of starts to disqualify a Prospect.
BB and this was a while ago...drafted a kid who never started an college game as he was a back up in college. Kessler and he got a couple of draft picks for him.
BB drafted a kid who started only 23 games who turned out to be the best NFL QB ever.
I understand the apprehension. But it is not a rule that should be automatic as long as you get enough data/film to make the proper evaluation as well as working with him enough to be sure. btw...any dates scheduled yet for visits???
Once again, that kid BB drafted had 23 starts. Same as Wentz.
And where we disagree, yet again, is I do not believe that 13 games is enough to properly give you film/data to draft a kid in the top half of the first round. It's simply a difference of opinion that only time will sort out Bud.
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on March 13, 2017 at 6:45 PM, updated March 14, 2017 at 4:51 PM
CLEVELAND, Ohio - Jon Gruden spent Monday with Mitchell Trubisky in Orlando to film their "QB Camp'' segment and came away convinced the Mentor, Ohio, native could handle the pressure of playing for his hometown Browns.
"That would be fun to watch,'' Gruden said in an ESPN interview to promote his popular series, which begins next month. "He's from Mentor, Ohio, Mr. Football (in Ohio) that would be quite a story. I showed him a lot of tape today of Ben Roethlisberger.
"I showed him a little tape of Joe Flacco. World Champion quarterbacks in the AFC North, and the one thing the Cleveland Browns have not been able to solve is the quarterback and I think he could handle it. I also know that it would be a lot of pressure. They have to give him better support than they have right now, I know that.''
Gruden spent time with the North Carolina product on the field and in the meeting room, going over snaps counts and his film. The Browns have the No. 1 and No. 12 picks in the first round, and really like Trubisky.
"There's a lot to like,'' said Gruden. "He's a quick study, he learns fast, it's really important to him, he loves football and he's mature. He is a finisher at North Carolina. He never quit, he was a backup, he waited three years for his opportunity, and trust me, he's going to be a real steal for somebody.''
Gruden admitted, however, that Trubisky's 13 college starts send up a red flag.
"I'm concerned,'' he said. "I'm no different than a lot of coaches that say 'I want a three-year starter. I want a minimum of 24 victories. I want two bowl wins.' (But) I want a good quarterback. That's what I want. I got kicked out of the league because I had a hard time sustaining at the quarterback position. Trubiusky is one of the top quarterback prospects in this draft, period. I wish I had more to study but that's the way it is.''
As for Trubisky's almost exclusive experience in the spread and out of the shotgun, he said, "it's a transition for almost all of these college quarterbacks. You have to be able to recognize defenses on your own in pro football. You can't look to the sideline and read some board. You've got to recognize the defense on your own and then you've got to communicate to your offensive teammates what you want them to do.
"Then you have to put the ball in play with the snap count and after all is said and done you've got execute the play. But that's where these young quarterbacks today struggle the most with recognizing defenses and communicating with the offense and most importantly the snap count.''
The fact that Trubisky measured over 6-foot-2 at the NFL Combine wasn't as important to Trubisky as it was to Browns coach Hue Jackson and others. For Jackson, it marks his threshold for NFL success.
"Some of these analytical people can't make a draft pick unless all the measurables hold up,'' he said. "Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, there's a lot of quarterbacks that threw that out for me. I want a good player that's passionate about the game that's athletic, and I think Trubisky fits that mold for me personally.''
Gruden tutored Trubisky on how to bark out a hard count, but believes he'll be a quick study.
"He knows the North Carolina offense,'' said Gruden. "In fairness to him, that's all you can ask him to know right now. He understands that offense, the protections, the passing game, how the running game works at a very high level, and what we put in today, he picked up quickly.
"And you'll see when the show comes out, he's on the field with NFL players today, calling plays, audibling the plays and executing. He just needs somebody to spend time with him and teach him what they want done. But he is a sharp kid that can learn fast.''
In the segment, Gruden asks Trubisky how he's handling his sudden fame after sitting for two years at North Carolina.
"I think I'm handling it pretty well,'' he said. "It's kind of just funny to me. It's strange to see, but the media's going to take things and run with it and it's the way to make stories, but I just stick to my business and do what I've got to do week to week for the team to get better and it doesn't really mean much to me.''
The Browns interviewed Trubisky at the NFL Combine and will attend his Pro Day next week. They'll also conduct a private workout with him and bring him to Berea for a predraft visit. They're strongly considering him in the first round of the draft, although they're pretty well set on Texas A&M's Myles Garrett at No. 1 overall.
"There's going to be pressure pretty much everywhere you go,'' Trubisky said at the Combine. "There's exterior pressure, but there's not more pressure than the one I put on myself. I expect more out of myself than anybody else. That's kind of how I go about my business."
The other quarterbacks in the series are Clemson's Deshaun Watson, Notre Dame's DeShone Kizer, Texas Tech's Patrick Mahomes, Tennessee's Joshua Dobbs, Miami's Brad Kaaya and Pittsburgh's Nathan Peterman.
"There's some unknowns this year, but this class starts with Deshaun Watson," Gruden said in a release announcing the participants last month. "His body of work is as impressive as any quarterback we've had come through 'QB Camp.' I got the chance to see him live, and I think he has a ton of ability.
"There are some underclassmen coming out who have questions that need to be answered. That's why this process is exciting. But three or four years from now, I expect people will be saying this is a pretty good quarterback class."
The series kicks off April 11 at 8:30 p.m. on ESPN2 with multiple showings leading up to the draft beginning April 27.
Well it's great that you "have a feeling", but history dictates this wouldn't be a smart move. I tried to take my feelings out of drafting a long time ago and look at the facts and draft history.
I think draft history of QBs can be thrown out the window.
1. QBs are coming out earlier than before. So the GOLDEN 3 year starter or 40 starts rule is out the window.
2. The Spread one read offenses have taken over College football. Its hard to figure out who are the pretenders and who are the real deals via stats over whatever period of time.
There is only one way to evaluate QBs now and that is on their Technique and football intelligence as well as how Hue puts it. Arm...something, crap I forgot what he says...lol
I think this is a new era of College QBs and their evaluations. So you can throw that 98-2% out the window. Lets just hope Hue gets it right
I still think the QB position is different. QB's must want to win, make history and elevate theire teams. That will prevent the good QBs from declaring too soon.
With Mitch the situation is different, he was a BACKUP.
Deshaun could have declared last year and would end up on top 3.
Pit and others...I heard the same thing last year about Wentz
Look fact is if the kid is THE GUY...then he is THE GUY regardless of first half, 13 starts whatever.
As stated as long as he becomes the real deal.
Anything regarding last years draft no where close to this years. With Garrett and other players.
I have no clue what we will do. I would love for us to get Garett and then Tribusky. If we end up with Tribusky first I hope we get somebody like Barnett at 12... and some other impact guys in the 2nd.
No doubt that college is a 3 and out for the cream players. You aren't going to have many Peyton Manning announcements that he is staying for his senior season.
Those day's are long gone.
I am not a big Vol fan by any means, but Manning not winning the Heisman was a joke. Especially to a defensive player.....the only defensive player to win,
Pit and others...I heard the same thing last year about Wentz
Look fact is if the kid is THE GUY...then he is THE GUY regardless of first half, 13 starts whatever.
As stated as long as he becomes the real deal.
Anything regarding last years draft no where close to this years. With Garrett and other players.
I have no clue what we will do. I would love for us to get Garett and then Tribusky. If we end up with Tribusky first I hope we get somebody like Barnett at 12... and some other impact guys in the 2nd.
jmho
I can't say Wentz is the guy when Cody had very similar stats.. just saying...
Once again, Wentz had 23 starts. Within 3 games of doubling Trub's starts.
When you draft players, the odds of success are considered. A kid with 13 starts certainly make the odds long.
By your logic then Bree's, Wilson and a bunch of other "short" QB's would NEVER be drafted ... there simply to small ... not a high enough chance of them succeeding .... according to u at least ...
I agree with what your saying Pit ... but I also know that ABSOLUTES don't apply here ... there's no way I'm letting the number of college starts a player has be the SOLE reason I don't draft him ... NO WAY ...
Not when I think that player is the best option ... NO WAY ...
Daniel Jeremiah has him rated as the #31 rated player in the draft. That's a lot closer to my opinion. I believe it's not worth haggling over either. I think we've both stated our positions.
Daniel Jeremiah has him rated as the #31 rated player in the draft. That's a lot closer to my opinion. I believe it's not worth haggling over either. I think we've both stated our positions.
U and I don't usually have a problem stating our positions ... *L* ...
I think you need to re look the situation. I promoted drafting Wentz myself. But once again he had 23 starts. There has to be some threshold. 13 is simply below my threshold and is not below yours. We simply disagree here. No big deal.
There's just no way I would invest in a weak QB class on a kid with only 13 starts anywhere in the top half of the 1st round. It seems like you would take make such a leap. We're just not going to agree on this and that's fine.
I'm cool with that. Its when opposite opinions insist there is no way I could be correct.
Pit...its so freaking hard to evaluate the position. I think if I had a private workout and spend the day with the kid and the tools that a pretty QB intelligent person like Hue has. I can possibly get it right. That is what I'm hoping on.
Fall all I know he has deemed none are first round worthy.I don't know. All I do know is I will feel comfortable if we make the decision. We have never taken a QB earlier than 22 since Tim Couch. If we do and the players we have surrounding him compared to Couch we just might have our Franchise QB...FINALLY!!!
The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports the Browns are "fairly confident" they can wait on UNC QB Mitch Trubisky or Clemson QB Deshaun Watson until the No. 12 overall pick.
The Browns are beginning to appear too high on Texas A&M edge rusher Myles Garrett to pass with the No. 1 overall pick. If they're comfortable with either Trubisky or Watson, it's a reasonable assumption one of them will still be on the board at No. 12 overall, but a trade up could end up being necessary. The Browns have the draft capital, and then some, for such a move. Trubisky has been connected to the Browns early and often.
Related: Browns
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer Mar 20 - 2:46 PM
I don't agree with the plain dealers assessment ... I believe neither of them will be there at 12 ..
I keep seeing the question how could Trubisky (or another player in a similar situation) not be able to beat out the starter 1 year, become the starter the next, then be considered the top QB in the NFL draft the next.
I'm not saying this is the answer, but you have to remember we are talking about college kids. We're taking about young men who are learning how to put everything together for their lives. Some get it earlier than others, some never do. It could just be that Mitchell didn't have it all together until he became the starter, then when he did figure it all out, his natural abilities were able to show through.
The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports the Browns are "fairly confident" they can wait on UNC QB Mitch Trubisky or Clemson QB Deshaun Watson until the No. 12 overall pick.
The Browns are beginning to appear too high on Texas A&M edge rusher Myles Garrett to pass with the No. 1 overall pick. If they're comfortable with either Trubisky or Watson, it's a reasonable assumption one of them will still be on the board at No. 12 overall, but a trade up could end up being necessary. The Browns have the draft capital, and then some, for such a move. Trubisky has been connected to the Browns early and often.
Related: Browns
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer Mar 20 - 2:46 PM
I don't agree with the plain dealers assessment ... I believe neither of them will be there at 12 ..
I dont believe a QB will come off the board until the 20s, unless the Jets pull the trigger on Watson early. I thik their history says they will reach for anyone that resembles a QB.
So, you wanna spend the first overall pick on a guy who could not beat out a qb who was unable to make an NFL roster? I won't call you ridiculous, like cfrs does when arguing against Jimmy G.......but can't you see why some of us question the logic of drafting him so high?
Vers, I just re-read my post and I don't see where I gave any indication I was talking about drafting Trubisky with the first overall pick. I think you inferred that, I didn't mean to imply it.
I have been leaning toward Garrett since last year, and have been sold on him since the end of the college season this year. As for QBs, my first choice is Garoppolo.
I was just addressing the question raised in several poster's arguments against Trubisky. My point remains, while it may not be true in this case, for young people in general, and often athletes in particular, sometimes "the light comes on" and they suddenly become markedly better at whatever it is they are trying to do. I was just putting the thought out there for folks to consider.
I just assumed that you had read my post earlier when I said something about Trub being a backup and people wanting him as the first overall pick in the draft. I assumed that because you mentioned the part about people questioning as to why he was a backup.
Trib..oh I'm sorry most will not know who I'm talking about. Trubisky most likely will not be the overall #1 pick even if Hue likes him as the guy. Myles Garrett just is too good to pass up. This new mantra of he can't be THE GUY cause he didn't beat out others in his last two seasons just is lame.
The question is - IS HE THE GUY...and it will not be decided on the fact others started over him in previous seasons. That actually is a ridiculous reason. It comes down to Arm Strength, Accuracy, Football Intelligence, Good Release, Ability to see the field. The 13 games and the didn't beat out Williams is just posturing on irrelevant facts.
Mitchell Trubisky - QB - Player ESPN's Rich Cimini reports "the Jets are very intrigued" by UNC QB Mitchell Trubisky. The Jets will have a contingent at Trubisky's Pro Day on Tuesday. Despite signing Josh McCown to be their bridge starter and drafting Christian Hackenberg in the second round last season, there continues to be speculation the Jets will draft a quarterback. Taking Trubisky would require the No. 6 overall pick, however, meaning they would need to be more than intrigued by his talent to pull the trigger. The Browns are reportedly targeting Trubisky with the No. 12 overall pick. Related: Jets Source: ESPN Mar 21 - 9:49 AM
The question is - IS HE THE GUY...and it will not be decided on the fact others started over him in previous seasons. That actually is a ridiculous reason. ...The 13 games and the didn't beat out Williams is just posturing on irrelevant facts.
I guess that the HOF coach Bill Parcells must be "ridiculous" and "is just posturing on irrelevant facts," too:
I'll quote parts of an article that was written in April of 2016:
Quote:
Bill Parcels Criteria for Drafting Quarterbacks:
+ He must be a senior, because you need time and maturity to develop into a good professional quarterback.
+ He must be a graduate, because you want someone who takes his responsibilities seriously.
+ He must be a three-year starter, because you need to make sure his success wasn’t ephemeral and that he has lived as "the guy" for some period of time.
+ He must have at least 23 wins, because the big passing numbers must come in the context of winning games.
For those of you who are interested in having an intelligent conversation and not just handing out childish insults, I would like to say that I don't think Parcells' criteria for drafting qbs is completely correct and I would not dismiss the thought of drafting a qb if he didn't meet all of the criteria. However, I don't think looking at the number of games played and how long a guy started in college are either "ridiculous" or irrelevant."
The following information is from the same article:
Quote:
Quarterbacks who hit all four pieces of criteria (7/14)
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Tony Romo
Russell Wilson
Philip Rivers
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Quarterbacks who hit three of the four pieces of criteria (2/14)
Andrew Luck
Matt Ryan
Quarterbacks who hit two of the four pieces of criteria (4/14) Tom Brady
Joe Flacco
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Quarterback who hit one of the four pieces of criteria (1/4)
Cam Newton
Interesting list, isn't it?
I also know that other NFL QB talent evaluators have similar criteria when evaluating qb prospects. Again, I do not think it is an end-all, but being leery of a guy's lack of experience as a starter and in total number of games played is not "ridiculous" or "irrelevant," in my opinion.
Nobody would draft, in the top 10, another position player with just 13 starts, so why do it with a QB?
It's a QB driven league. If team leadership really thinks he's the QB they want moving forward, they are going to take them when they have the chance before another team grabs them up.
Nobody would draft, in the top 10, another position player with just 13 starts, so why do it with a QB?
It's a QB driven league. If team leadership really thinks he's the QB they want moving forward, they are going to take them when they have the chance before another team grabs them up.
I'm not saying it will happen but if Hue and this FO love Trubisky they will take him #1 and Garrett will be gone ... So my question to all of you is "IF" this happens would you be ok with it or would you jump off the nearest building?(jk) I would be ok with it because we need a Franchise QB and would hate to see him become that elsewhere ... JMHO
This seems possible, yet I believe that Garrett is the #1 target, and that Trubisky is the target for the Jets at #6, so I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to trade up to #5 to get him. Barring that, I'd say we'd be looking at Watson or Mahommes. I don't see any way Trubisky is there at 12. To answer your question, though, if they believe he's truly THE GUY, and they take him #1, I may not like the decision, but I'll have to respect it given the situation.
This seems possible, yet I believe that Garrett is the #1 target, and that Trubisky is the target for the Jets at #6, so I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to trade up to #5 to get him. Barring that, I'd say we'd be looking at Watson or Mahommes. I don't see any way Trubisky is there at 12. To answer your question, though, if they believe he's truly THE GUY, and they take him #1, I may not like the decision, but I'll have to respect it given the situation.
As an aside, I read he had a decent pro day.
Yes and that could all but guarantee he will not be there at pick #12 ...
Also, since the Jets are QB desperate (almost as much as we are) I don't think there's a chance in hell he gets by them at six. If we pass at one, it wouldn't shock me to see the Jets try to move up to five to thwart us.
Lot's of speculation and that is fine, but Bucky Brooks has Trub going at 25th overall. I don't think it is set in stone that Trub won't be there at 12. Personally, I wouldn't even take him there, but that is a different debate.
Btw.........I love how you all completely ignored the Parcell's post. LOL
Lots of posters have asked why Mitch couldn't beat out Williams ... a legite and logical question ... makes sense to want to know why ... wish Fedora would answer that publically now ... guessing if he hasn't yet he won't at this point ...
Folks kept asking the question and bringing up the fact that Mitch couldn't even beat out a guy that wasn't even an nfl prospect .... and thats a good point ... no one ever said anything about Williams ... if they did ... maybe I missed it ... its possible .... so i went and looked at a bunch of his stats and his overall career .... then I stumbled upon this ... think it may shed a little light on the situation in a quick short concise way ... here is the first couple paragraphs ..
• 2015 All-ACC Second Team (ACSMA and coaches) • 2014 All-ACC Second Team (ACSMA)
Played in 48 games at UNC and made 33 career starts • Established more than 20 UNC records, including career rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (35), career rushing yards by a quarterback (2,458) and career total offense (10,423) • Was responsible for more touchdowns (99) than any other player in school history and only two players in ACC history had more • Ranks third in school history with 61 touchdown passes and is third in school history with 35 rushing touchdowns • Compiled the top three and four of the top five single-game total offense performances in Carolina history – set the UNC mark with 524 total yards of offense against Duke in 2015 and accomplished that in less than three quarters • The 524 yards are the sixth-most in ACC single-game history • Eclipsed his own previous UNC record of 469, which he set against Old Dominion in 2013 • Five-Time ACC Offensive Back of the Week (Duke, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh - 2014; Duke - 2015).
2015 – Senior Season Started all 14 games: Completed 219 of 357 pass attempts for 3,072 yards, 24 touchdowns and 10 interceptions • Rushed for 948 yards on 158 attempts (6.0 avg.) and scored 13 touchdowns.
Clemson (ACC Championship Game): Rushed for 81 yards to set the new UNC single-season record with 867 yards to break his own single-season • Threw for three touchdowns – a 46-yarder to T.J. Logan, a 3-yarder to Ryan Switzer and a 17-yarder to Switzer • Was the fourth time this season and the seventh time in his career that Williams threw at least three touchdown passes in a game (2015– 3 vs. Illinois, 3 vs. Wake Forest, 4 vs. Duke and 3 vs. Clemson) • Was responsible for four touchdowns, including a 1-yard rushing touchdown in the third quarter • Completed 11 passes for 224 yards, an average of 20.4 yards per completion • Gained 305 yards of total offense and became the fifth player in ACC history to gain at least 10,000 yards in his career.
I also know that other NFL QB talent evaluators have similar criteria when evaluating qb prospects. Again, I do not think it is an end-all, but being leery of a guy's lack of experience as a starter and in total number of games played is not "ridiculous" or "irrelevant," in my opinion.
No, it isn't irrelevant. It is no doubt a factor that needs to be considered.
However, things change. The good players tend to leave after their Jr. year more often then they did even 10 years ago. Not many go in and start as a freshman. Seeing as they don't stick for a Sr. season, the three year starter deal can be impossible to attain. Wins, I can take that or leave that. That was always one I didn't agree with.
But mostly, times change. Bill formed this opinion when? In the 80's when with the Giants. Maybe even before he was a head coach?
Not many years ago running back was always a top pick priority. Today, it's almost viewed as a throw away position.
Who knows, maybe the Browns will look at Williams as a RB. LOL
And bro..........you can talk directly to me. I am not thin-skinned. I have no problem if you wanna disagree w/me about Trub. I just don't like when posters use terms like "ridiculous" and that my points are "irrelevant."
I have a question for you, Diam. You have gone on record that you want the Browns to draft Trub w/the first overall pick. Does that mean you have absolutely no concerns about him not being able to beat out a running qb and him only having 13 starts?
The Parcells criteria is interesting. I also remember a long time ago, probably on the old site, some had posted a similar QB criteria matrix. This one had a few more stat based criteria i.e. must have had minimum 60% comp. pct and TD to Int ratio. I believe that matrix relied less on total wins and only stated that a QB prospect start more than one season but did not specify three years. Both are interesting, and in the case of Jimmy Garoppolo, very intriguing. I would also like to see how many active QBs check the boxes. I would be curios to see how many QBs that checked all of the boxes and where drafted relatively high still failed to make it as a quality starter in the NFL.
I look at Parcell's test much the same way I do the velocity test in that it raises a red flag for a player who hasn't met the criteria. In the velocity test, since they have been doing the test, only 1 in 30 players who have thrown under 50mph have turned into long term starters.
People can discredit the test if they like, but the success rate for those who don't meet the metric is astoundingly low. For me to draft a player who didn't meet this metric I would have to be convinced that he had other strengths that could overcome the odds.
As you put out in your Parcells post, the odds of a guy making it are stronger the more of these requirements that he achieves. Thus imo it is a valid metric that should be considered when drafting a QB. As I stated above, I would have to be convinced that he has other abilities that could overcome the odds.
I wouldn't draft either of these players first overall even if I believe they did have those abilities, because even if I believed they could be the "guy" to overcome the odds the risk associated with it is too large. I would be hesitant to spend a first round pick in general on these guys because of those risks.However, due to the QB tax as they say, if you like one your going to have to draft them higher than they should go in most cases.
So if the rumor is true and Hue loves Trubs (and apparently thinks he can beat the aforementioned odds) then the Browns can't wait until 33 or hope they can trade up to 20 to get "value" for the pick. They should take him at 12 and just be done with it.
I think taking him at 1 (or trading up for him) is not a good idea because it's just poor risk management, but using the 12 pick would be the balance of managing the risk of him being a bust/and getting a QB who you think you can build around.
I think Parcells Rules are really just a way to gauge maturity and leadership. Yes, the rules can be good indicators that those things are present, but they aren't flawless and there are other ways of trying to determine if those "traits" are present.
You'd obviously like a player to have maturity and to be a leader, and it is hard to succeed if you don't have them. However, you need more than to just pass those rules.
Brady Quinn and Chad Henne passed the rules.
You can be mature and a good leader without meeting Parcells rules. However, I'm not sure if the guys we are looking at in this draft are. Trubisky's "leadership" seems kind of forced to me. I'd say Watson has maturity and leadership, but I'm not sure on the everything else bit. Kizer seems to be immature and the leadership is a question (I put some of that on Kelly).
I'm not really a fan of the 23 wins criteria. I think the surrounding talent level plays into that way too much. I get the can you lead your team to victory aspect, but the QB can't control everything. A good team can carry a "bad" QB. A bad team can hamstring a "good" QB.
Lots of posters have asked why Mitch couldn't beat out Williams ... a legite and logical question ... makes sense to want to know why ... wish Fedora would answer that publically now ... guessing if he hasn't yet he won't at this point ...
Folks kept asking the question and bringing up the fact that Mitch couldn't even beat out a guy that wasn't even an nfl prospect .... and thats a good point ... no one ever said anything about Williams ... if they did ... maybe I missed it ... its possible .... so i went and looked at a bunch of his stats and his overall career .... then I stumbled upon this ... think it may shed a little light on the situation in a quick short concise way ... here is the first couple paragraphs ..
• 2015 All-ACC Second Team (ACSMA and coaches) • 2014 All-ACC Second Team (ACSMA)
Played in 48 games at UNC and made 33 career starts • Established more than 20 UNC records, including career rushing touchdowns by a quarterback (35), career rushing yards by a quarterback (2,458) and career total offense (10,423) • Was responsible for more touchdowns (99) than any other player in school history and only two players in ACC history had more • Ranks third in school history with 61 touchdown passes and is third in school history with 35 rushing touchdowns • Compiled the top three and four of the top five single-game total offense performances in Carolina history – set the UNC mark with 524 total yards of offense against Duke in 2015 and accomplished that in less than three quarters • The 524 yards are the sixth-most in ACC single-game history • Eclipsed his own previous UNC record of 469, which he set against Old Dominion in 2013 • Five-Time ACC Offensive Back of the Week (Duke, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh - 2014; Duke - 2015).
2015 – Senior Season Started all 14 games: Completed 219 of 357 pass attempts for 3,072 yards, 24 touchdowns and 10 interceptions • Rushed for 948 yards on 158 attempts (6.0 avg.) and scored 13 touchdowns.
Clemson (ACC Championship Game): Rushed for 81 yards to set the new UNC single-season record with 867 yards to break his own single-season • Threw for three touchdowns – a 46-yarder to T.J. Logan, a 3-yarder to Ryan Switzer and a 17-yarder to Switzer • Was the fourth time this season and the seventh time in his career that Williams threw at least three touchdown passes in a game (2015– 3 vs. Illinois, 3 vs. Wake Forest, 4 vs. Duke and 3 vs. Clemson) • Was responsible for four touchdowns, including a 1-yard rushing touchdown in the third quarter • Completed 11 passes for 224 yards, an average of 20.4 yards per completion • Gained 305 yards of total offense and became the fifth player in ACC history to gain at least 10,000 yards in his career.
I think Marquise Williams is free, so I'm Ok with signing him and let Trubisky go to other pastures....
Obviously, Parcells used that as a guide and then evaluated a QBs skill set. And again, I am not saying it's a great way to evaluate qbs. I just pointed it out because my opinion on Trub not starting many games was called "ridiculous" and "irrelevant."
I don't think the concern over Trub not being able to win the starting job for 2 straight years and his lack of experience are ridiculous or irrelevant. I think they are legitimate concerns.
I do have to say one more thing about the Parcell's criteria thing, though. I was really surprised by the list of qbs who met his criteria. I must say that I now put more credence into what he said than I did before I saw that list.
That is exactly what I have been saying. It's not like Trubisky couldn't beat out some bum, he was stuck behind a guy who put up almost Heisman like #s.
He's not a pro quarterback, doesn't have the necessary skill set, but was a good college quarterback, would be my best guess. He was established as the QB already so it's not easy to replace a proven commodity. It is a concern that he didn't start ahead of Williams but I don't know if you can fault the kid for it, he didn't make that decision, the coaching staff did. When he got his chance he came out and performed.
I'm not as high on Trubinsky as some, and wouldn't take him in the first, but It's hard for me to fault him for not starting earlier.
I think the Jets stuff is posturing - as all the evaluations and mocs are starting to settle (based on more accurate intel) the consensus is there isn't a top ten QB in this draft.
I went back and looked at all the drafts where a QB wasnt taken in the top 10 and it looked like the odds of finding quality was lower but there were still some studs.
Mr. Biscuit keeps growing on me - and I think he has answered the question on why he didnt start earlier - he said he thought he won the job
--- williams was a UNC legend, and you cant knock out the champ if you are his backup - he played nice and delivered when it was his turn - if the biskyt stayed and delivered the same results in 2017 - would he be a (1b) to darnold in next years draft ?
Who knows, maybe the Browns will look at Williams as a RB. LOL
And bro..........you can talk directly to me. I am not thin-skinned. I have no problem if you wanna disagree w/me about Trub. I just don't like when posters use terms like "ridiculous" and that my points are "irrelevant."
I have a question for you, Diam. You have gone on record that you want the Browns to draft Trub w/the first overall pick. Does that mean you have absolutely no concerns about him not being able to beat out a running qb and him only having 13 starts?
I can talk directly to u? ... u think i got shy or someone took one of my balls ... *L* .. it isn't just u saying that ... u were more than likely the first, but your other posse has been saying it also .. *L* .. if i want to adress sumptin to U, i will ... u should know me better than that ... we've had knock down drag outs before, I'd be shocked if we don't again ...
To answer your questions ...
- it doesn't bother me that he couldn't beat out a VERY GOOD QB ... dude was well above average .. and i mean well above average .. he would have been 1st team all ACC both years if he played in almost any other conference ... and may have been conference player of the year his 2nd year ...
Williams was a VERY GOOD - GREAT college QB .. he was a grade ahead of Trib ... he started the last 5 or so games of the year Trib red shirted and accounted for himself very well ...
Do i wish he could have beat him out .. ABSOLUTELY ... not thrilled he couldn't ... but its not like he couldn't beat out a bum or an average qb ... dude had MAD COLLEGE QB SKILLS ....
- i have concerns about the 13 starts .. but it wouldn't keep me from taking him ... obviously if I'd take him at #1 based off what i know now ...
I started looking at the 13 start stat a bit ago ... as i asked a month or so ago who were the QB's with less than 2 years worth of starts that went in the 1st round .. i was STUNNED ... the sample size was almost NON EXISTENT ... I'll post it later ... off the top of my head ... i think the entire sample size from 1998 thru last year .... was Akili Smith and Cam Newton depending on how you viewed Cam's starts at the CC he transferred to ...
No way can u draw conclusions on that sample size .... no way ....
Bottom Line ... i like his skill set ... that outweighs my concerns about the lack of starts ...
The 13th starts do scare me a bit but all these QBs are gonna need time to develop. I like Trubisky alot. Some teams however are gonna love him especially when I hear Rodgers with the right grooming. I like Mahomes and his Cannon arm better but its really close and if either of these guys was in last years draft I would have had them ahead of Goff and Wentz.
Wish you would have come up w/a better analogy than the one-ball thing? Ouch!
I wasn't looking for a knock-down, drag-out fight. I just find it surprising that you were not acknowledging the lack of starts and the fact that the coaches didn't believe he was the best qb on his college team.
You answered my questions and I respect that. You did so w/out any stupid commentary like saying I am "ridiculous," "irrelevant," and the latest bravado of my concerns being only "anecdotal" and "not having any merit." LOL........Oh man. These guys trip me out.
Btw--------I am not saying that Trub won't be good. I just think he is a very risky pick if drafted w/in the top 15 picks. We disagree on that and that's cool.
Mitch's combine numbers gave me pause. I had to go back and watch some games because his numbers we WAY better than I thought they would be. I didn't seem to remember his slipping as many arm tackles as he actually did. He is a really good athlete and throws the ball well.
I've changed my mind on him. I would be fine with him at 12 or a trade up from 12. Could not justify passing on a generational athlete like Garret.
I think the conversation about when he was a starter and whether or not he beat someone out are anecdotal and don't have any evaluation merit for me.
So in alternative, can you tell us where you see the merit in Trubisky?
He doesn't have the measurables He doesn't have the film He doesn't have the intagibles He doesn't have the starts nor the wins He doesn't have the arm
So what does he have that makes you think he is a top 15 pick?
Honestly, looking at Trubisky body of work, all is very pedestrian at best...
I specially like the part when he says he had nothing to learn in going back to school...
I also like when people pick apart other QB's that did something, that at least have something to show, while with Trubisky its all a big unkown.... I guess that's his big merit.
Yet back in early March, an NFL scout told Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he sees some Favre in Trubisky’s game.
“I wanted to compare him to (Brett) Favre but he’s a much better athlete than Favre and he’s faster than Favre,” the scout said. “The amazing thing is he can run so well. Excellent competitor. He’s probably my best player (in the draft).”
Trubiskiy could be the next Aaron Rodgers....your telling me Garrett is worth more then that? no way...not if you actually want to win.
I won't be one bit surprised we pull the trigger on Trub #1 overall if we can't trade down 2-3 spots, the guy has all the potential to be a franchise QB. If we keep waiting for the "next big thing" we will never have anyone.
I think the conversation about when he was a starter and whether or not he beat someone out are anecdotal and don't have any evaluation merit for me.
So in alternative, can you tell us where you see the merit in Trubisky?
He doesn't have the measurables He doesn't have the film He doesn't have the intagibles He doesn't have the starts nor the wins He doesn't have the arm
So what does he have that makes you think he is a top 15 pick?
Honestly, looking at Trubisky body of work, all is very pedestrian at best...
I specially like the part when he says he had nothing to learn in going back to school...
I also like when people pick apart other QB's that did something, that at least have something to show, while with Trubisky its all a big unkown.... I guess that's his big merit.
Ummm.....how is this a reply to my post?
You don't need to reply to my post to get your thoughts on Trubisky out there.
Because you were the one stating that starting status of a player in college was anedoctal, so in order to try to understand your line of thinking, I wanted to know what is important to you and how does Mitch Trubisky fare to have an high grade.
Yet back in early March, an NFL scout told Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he sees some Favre in Trubisky’s game.
“I wanted to compare him to (Brett) Favre but he’s a much better athlete than Favre and he’s faster than Favre,” the scout said. “The amazing thing is he can run so well. Excellent competitor. He’s probably my best player (in the draft).”
Trubiskiy could be the next Aaron Rodgers....your telling me Garrett is worth more then that? no way...not if you actually want to win.
I won't be one bit surprised we pull the trigger on Trub #1 overall if we can't trade down 2-3 spots, the guy has all the potential to be a franchise QB. If we keep waiting for the "next big thing" we will never have anyone.
When your argument is focused on how great a QB runs, He's probably not that great a QB. Just saying. I don't see the Favre comp at all.
Replying to the article, more than what you posted after.
As far as taking T-Rube early, I'm hoping we don't.
Because you were the one stating that starting status of a player in college was anedoctal, so in order to try to understand your line of thinking, I wanted to know what is important to you and how does Mitch Trubisky fare to have an high grade.
Does Trubisky excel at anything?
Yes .... he excels at the one and only thing that counts ...
Because you were the one stating that starting status of a player in college was anedoctal, so in order to try to understand your line of thinking, I wanted to know what is important to you and how does Mitch Trubisky fare to have an high grade.
Does Trubisky excel at anything?
Yes .... he excels at the one and only thing that counts ...
PLAYING QUARTERBACK .....
WTF else matters? ...
And you say a player excels playing QB with 386 completions, 572 attempts, 67.5% comp, 41 Tds, 5 wins 3 losses?
In my eye many other Qb's present much better results, so that can't be the metric...
rasta, he isn't talking about stats. He is talking about skill set.
I don't agree w/him that Mitch is elite, but stats do not tell the entire story on a player.
Vers the thing is that except for he don't have proof that Trubisky sucks, in reality he doesn't excel in anything.
He doesn't excel in measurables (he's on par with the rest, and a bit short for the prototypical QB) He doesn't excel in Arm (he can make all the throes, but he is not stellar) He didn't play in a pro-style offense He doesn't have an off the sharts record on the 13 starts he has He doens't show outstanding intagibles (quite the contrary IMHO) He's inconsistent like the rest of the class...
I could understand Russell, who went up in the sharts because he could make any play sitting, but Trubisky, I think he's only good because we have no evidence he is bad...
By the way, have you seen his comments with Maykock on his pro day.. Didn't it rub you the wrong way?
Yet back in early March, an NFL scout told Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he sees some Favre in Trubisky’s game.
“I wanted to compare him to (Brett) Favre but he’s a much better athlete than Favre and he’s faster than Favre,” the scout said. “The amazing thing is he can run so well. Excellent competitor. He’s probably my best player (in the draft).”
Trubiskiy could be the next Aaron Rodgers....your telling me Garrett is worth more then that? no way...not if you actually want to win.
I won't be one bit surprised we pull the trigger on Trub #1 overall if we can't trade down 2-3 spots, the guy has all the potential to be a franchise QB. If we keep waiting for the "next big thing" we will never have anyone.
You said he "could" be the next Aaron Rodgers. "Could" be. Is that the criteria for the #1 pick now?
Yet back in early March, an NFL scout told Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he sees some Favre in Trubisky’s game.
“I wanted to compare him to (Brett) Favre but he’s a much better athlete than Favre and he’s faster than Favre,” the scout said. “The amazing thing is he can run so well. Excellent competitor. He’s probably my best player (in the draft).”
Trubiskiy could be the next Aaron Rodgers....your telling me Garrett is worth more then that? no way...not if you actually want to win.
I won't be one bit surprised we pull the trigger on Trub #1 overall if we can't trade down 2-3 spots, the guy has all the potential to be a franchise QB. If we keep waiting for the "next big thing" we will never have anyone.
You said he "could" be the next Aaron Rodgers. "Could" be. Is that the criteria for the #1 pick now?
No we couldn't, he doesn't have the arm Aaron has and that was already his hallmark when he was drafted.
Rodgers college career, although not very prolific was much better than Trubisky's... and his Arm and throws were AMAZING
If you consider measurables then you either go with Kizer or Webb If you take into consideration intangibles playmaking and games you go with Deshaun Watson.
If you consider both,then you can rule all the class out, and then probably you can consider Trubisky has a project, but never ever on the first round.
Yet back in early March, an NFL scout told Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he sees some Favre in Trubisky’s game.
“I wanted to compare him to (Brett) Favre but he’s a much better athlete than Favre and he’s faster than Favre,” the scout said. “The amazing thing is he can run so well. Excellent competitor. He’s probably my best player (in the draft).”
Trubiskiy could be the next Aaron Rodgers....your telling me Garrett is worth more then that? no way...not if you actually want to win.
I won't be one bit surprised we pull the trigger on Trub #1 overall if we can't trade down 2-3 spots, the guy has all the potential to be a franchise QB. If we keep waiting for the "next big thing" we will never have anyone.
You said he "could" be the next Aaron Rodgers. "Could" be. Is that the criteria for the #1 pick now?
Yes
I fully believe if we take Mitch, and we actually give him a chance to play...im not talking 3 games, 4 games, 15 games, or even 16 games...im talking 45 games....i have no doubt whatsoever that he will be the guy here in Cleveland.
You cna't expect any Qb to come out of the draft Day One and be a Pro Bowler...the ones who do are outliers...many of these guys need to develop...the NFL is a whole new game compared to college.
Look at guys like Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady Even Brett Farve....Farve was really bad back in 91 for the Falcons, his first ever pass being an interception...its not like these guys lit the world on fire. None of those guys lit the world on fire year one.
Point is Trubisky is very very talented...he is a guy behind this new O-Line we CAN DEVELOP into something long term. it takes 2-3 years for a Qb to really get his feet underneath him...Bradshaw was terrible his 1st two years...Browns fans have unrealistic expectations of what a 1st Rd QB should be able to do year one.
Drafting Trubisky #1 overall is an investment in the future, you take him, you let him play for a few years while you build out the rest of your roster...you will win some, you will lose some, he will have growing pains...when its over, we will have a viable, maybe even great NFL quality QB.
We are going to have to develop a QB, this is our year to get one that will have a higher chance of working out.
Mark my words, if we don't take Trub he will be a franchise Qb in the NFL somewhere, and he wants to play here...i'd call that a plus...a big one...guys who want to do something tend to give more then guys just here for a check.
To pass on Trubisky to pass on our chance to have greatness at the QB slot...i can just sense it...the guy is going to be something really special in the NFL....he is going to make some big time plays for someone, i hope that someone is us.
To pass on Trubisky to pass on our chance to have greatness at the QB slot...i can just sense it...the guy is going to be something really special in the NFL....he is going to make some big time plays for someone, i hope that someone is us.
Be careful Knight I said I had a feeling about Trubisky and I got attacked by the usual suspects ...
To pass on Trubisky to pass on our chance to have greatness at the QB slot...i can just sense it...the guy is going to be something really special in the NFL....he is going to make some big time plays for someone, i hope that someone is us.
Be careful Knight I said I had a feeling about Trubisky and I got attacked by the usual suspects ...
Thanks for the heads up, i appreciate that. I'll stand by it... Trubs is the "the Guy" He is the perfect fit here...He fits Jacksons System, He is a Celveland guy, No one wants to see Cleveland win more then him, and he has franchise Qb talent level, a great arm, good size, etc....the kid will be a winner...and i want him to be a winner here.
Wish you would have come up w/a better analogy than the one-ball thing? Ouch!
I wasn't looking for a knock-down, drag-out fight. I just find it surprising that you were not acknowledging the lack of starts and the fact that the coaches didn't believe he was the best qb on his college team.
You answered my questions and I respect that. You did so w/out any stupid commentary like saying I am "ridiculous," "irrelevant," and the latest bravado of my concerns being only "anecdotal" and "not having any merit." LOL........Oh man. These guys trip me out.
Btw--------I am not saying that Trub won't be good. I just think he is a very risky pick if drafted w/in the top 15 picks. We disagree on that and that's cool.
I acknowledge the lack of starts and the fact his college HC thought a guy that was older, with game experience and who was a VERY GOOD COLLEGE QB was the better QB for his team ...
Like i said ... u put way more stock into that than i do .. would i have liked him to have more starts .. ABSOLUTELY ... but I'm not going to let that rule him out of the #1 slot for me ..
I really like what i saw on tape Vers .. and if i thought Garrett was the slam dunk everyone else did .. i wouldn't wantt Mitch at #1 ... the more of Garrett's tape i watch ... the less impressed i become ...
For me .. its JG or Mitch or WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR ...
Because you were the one stating that starting status of a player in college was anedoctal, so in order to try to understand your line of thinking, I wanted to know what is important to you and how does Mitch Trubisky fare to have an high grade.
Does Trubisky excel at anything?
Yes .... he excels at the one and only thing that counts ...
PLAYING QUARTERBACK .....
WTF else matters? ...
And you say a player excels playing QB with 386 completions, 572 attempts, 67.5% comp, 41 Tds, 5 wins 3 losses?
In my eye many other Qb's present much better results, so that can't be the metric...
U keep reading stats while i keep WATCHING TAPE ...
Metric? .. ahhhh ... well we all who STATS ARE FOR!!!!!
I think it's rather telling that there is not a clear-cut #1 guy in what is considered a good QB class.
That's not to say that those guys won't be good, but they all have question marks and none of them seem to fit into the "elite" category.
I was using a tad bit of hyperbole there bro ... did i get lucky with spelling again ... *L* ..
I saw the article ... I'm not a fan of what the GM's tell the press for two reasons ...
- they LIE ... *L* - are these the same GM's that passed on Dak 3 times or more last year? ... hes just the example that popped into my head ..
How many times u ever seen me quote or source a GM, a sportswriter or any of the so-called "draft gurus" .... if you can't recall any .. thats cause i don't USE THEM ... quite frankly U and I and tabber and a few others are right WAY MORE THAN THE WRITERS and were at least as good as the draft "guru's" ... and thats not cause were anything special .. this is just a VERY VERY INEXACT SCIENCE ...
Sorry bro ... i could care less what they say ... I've NEVER CARED ...
Did not say we should take him at 1 in fact I feel we should take Garrett and then Trubisky at 12 if he is there ... But if they do take him at 1 that means they believe that he is a franchise QB and I would be ok with that ...
If only we had taken Johnny Manziel higher in the draft, he might of been good.
*LOL* ...
I shudder to think at how good guys like Bree's and Rodgers could have been if they were only drafted higher ...
And OH MY GOD .... the motherload ... imagine how much better Brady would ha e been if he was drafted even 4 rounds earlier much less at the top of the draft ... i guess its a good thing the hoodie waited ... otherwise they may have won all the Super Bowls ... *LOL* ...
Did not say we should take him at 1 in fact I feel we should take Garrett and then Trubisky at 12 if he is there ... But if they do take him at 1 that means they believe that he is a franchise QB and I would be ok with that ...
I'm beginning to disagree with you here bro. If the Jets don't take him at 6 (and they might, but rumored to like Watson more) I think he's there at 12.
What I don't know is if the Browns would draft him there if he is.........very debatable imo.
I'm beginning to disagree with you here bro. If the Jets don't take him at 6 (and they might, but rumored to like Watson more) I think he's there at 12.
What I don't know is if the Browns would draft him there if he is.........very debatable imo.
Its OK if u disagree with me ... your used to being wrong ... ....
So U know what Shanny thinks of him ... OK .... your better at this than me then ...
And what about Buffalo ... Taylor's on a one year deal .... roster bonus next march is the only "guaranteed" money next year ...
And what about .... i don't know ... San Diego, Houston, New Orleans or a bunch of other teams trading up to 8 - 11 to get him ..
I'm not certain enough to know a team won't take him 6-11, but yeah I'll bet you the adult beverage he doesn't go top 5. No way Shanny takes him at 2, and am VERY confident in that. The very praise you give Shanny is why he won't touch that big of a risk at 2.
Where it get's iffy to me is the Jets pick. I can definitely see them taking him. I think it's much more likely that the Chargers/Saints are going to take a guy in the middle rounds to develop and draft an impact player there. Buffalo might, but I bet they ride with Taylor and draft an impact player.
I like Trubs and wouldn't be upset if we draft him at 12.......but no I don't think he's the slam dunk you think he is. I think he's the best of the projects at QB. You could be right and he's a stud, but I don't see that. There is a lot to like about Trubs, but there is flaws imo. The lack of experience is troubling........and he isn't a starter this year and probably shouldn't be in 2018 either. I'm not comfortable spending a 1st overall pick on a guy who shouldn't play for the next 2 years.
I like him, but wouldn't touch him in the top 10 and if someone else does let them have at it....lol.
1. Cleveland - Myles Garrett 2. San Francisco - Waiting for Kirk in 2018 3. Chicago - Glennon 4. Jacksonville - Bortles? 5. Tennessee (via Rams) - Trade up spot for someone or Defense 6. New York Jets - Tanking 7. Los Angeles Chargers - Need talent for Rivers, QB later 8. Carolina - Trade spot/BPA 9. Cincinnati - Trade Spot/BPA 10. Buffalo - Kept Tyrod, Trade Spot/BPA 11. New Orleans - Need talent for Brees, QB Later (also talking to Manziel? LOL)
I don't think signing Glennon, to what is basically a one year deal, means they won't draft a QB. I think they signed Glennon so they can draft a QB and not have to play him right away.
Coughlin, who is in charge of the Jaguars, has distanced himself from Bortles several times.
The Jets are a wildcard and can do anything at anytime.
With all that said, I don't think any of those teams should take a QB. None of the guys in this draft should go in the first round.
To pass on Trubisky to pass on our chance to have greatness at the QB slot...i can just sense it...the guy is going to be something really special in the NFL....he is going to make some big time plays for someone, i hope that someone is us.
Be careful Knight I said I had a feeling about Trubisky and I got attacked by the usual suspects ...
Not sure if you aimed that at me or not. But I never got on you because you said "you had a feeling." I only questioned your take that Trub was worth a top 5 pick but Jimmy G was not worth a 3rd round pick because of his lack of experience.
If you think Trub is all that, then fine. Whatever. But you can't rate him over Jimmy (or most anyone else) citing the other guy's lack of playing time. That makes no sense whatsoever. Trub barely has college experience.
To pass on Trubisky to pass on our chance to have greatness at the QB slot...i can just sense it...the guy is going to be something really special in the NFL....he is going to make some big time plays for someone, i hope that someone is us.
Be careful Knight I said I had a feeling about Trubisky and I got attacked by the usual suspects ...
Again I know about Parcell's rules. Also there are several rules regarding drafting QBs.
What I'm saying is those rules just don't apply in today's college environment.
They are not breeding NFL QBs. They are playing in systems that your Weedens look like Otto Graham.
They are entering in the draft sooner and possibly in a year.
In today's football what a QB did in 2015 does not define the QBs - its what they do in their Final season that defines their body of work. It would be nice to have had them play more than one season. But Good is good, bad is bad. There is no oh wait he can't be good cause he sat in 2015...lets forget about what he did in 2016.
That is all I'm saying. The lack of games definitely have some NFL teams dropping Trubisky...why he just might be there at 12. If Hue thinks he is THE GUY...I expect him to draft him. I hope its at 12.
I think Trubisky also knew this was his best chance of being picked on the 1st round, that's how much confidence he has and his winner spirit.
I would never hire a guy who told me he had nothing more to learn on his last job while not having won anything, individualy or in the team, and that sat on the bench for 2/3rs of the time.
Its not only the small number of starts, but why the small number of stats, and why didn't he stay another year to make sure he was going to be the best QB.
I also don't see any attribute that makes him a sound prospect... he's a project at best and IMHO not even the best project in this draft.. Kizer and Webb have much better measurables.
Well, since usually a coaching staff and FO gets four years to prove themselves, ( Well in a normal organization anyway ), and since most highly drafted QB's get at least three years to prove themselves, they had better be right. Because when you do the math, their careers will depend on it.
There's no way I'd put my career at stake on a one hit wonder.
Because you were the one stating that starting status of a player in college was anedoctal
Yes.
Quote:
, so in order to try to understand your line of thinking, I wanted to know what is important to you and how does Mitch Trubisky fare to have an high grade.
My line of thinking is that for me, evaluation of a player is about skillset not about circumstances.
I never said Mitch had a high grade, that's your assumption. All I said was that the conversation about whether he started or didn't start or didn't beat this person out and why etc...was anecdotal to me whether I have a high grade on him or not.
Quote:
Does Trubisky excel at anything?
Hmmnnn...He's an above average athlete. He's got ability to improvise. He throws the ball clean with a consistent and repeatable motion. He's tough. He's got a good frame. He executed his college offense at high level.
Well, since usually a coaching staff and FO gets four years to prove themselves, ( Well in a normal organization anyway ), and since most highly drafted QB's get at least three years to prove themselves, they had better be right. Because when you do the math, their careers will depend on it.
There's no way I'd put my career at stake on a one hit wonder.
That last part is a big part of what it comes down to. I do find it interesting that some are saying no way to Trubisky because he's only had one year to look at while others are saying go all in for Darnold next year base on - ONE YEAR. (Not saying you are, Pit). What it Darnold's next season is horrible? What if he gets injured and doesn't have a next season? I'm not sure where I stand on that. Just some things to think about, but I do like the potential that I see in Trubisky.
They also say he might not come out next year. You can't just think the FO is saying wait till next year on a QB. There might not be a next year. They have to plan now, with what they got and how to use it. As long as they don't use the #1, they can take any QB after that.
Well, since usually a coaching staff and FO gets four years to prove themselves, ( Well in a normal organization anyway ), and since most highly drafted QB's get at least three years to prove themselves, they had better be right. Because when you do the math, their careers will depend on it.
There's no way I'd put my career at stake on a one hit wonder.
That last part is a big part of what it comes down to. I do find it interesting that some are saying no way to Trubisky because he's only had one year to look at while others are saying go all in for Darnold next year base on - ONE YEAR. (Not saying you are, Pit). What it Darnold's next season is horrible? What if he gets injured and doesn't have a next season? I'm not sure where I stand on that. Just some things to think about, but I do like the potential that I see in Trubisky.
Here is one that is more amazing. There are people dismissing Trub's lack of starts in college, but many people are dissing Jimmy G because he only has 4 career starts in the NFL, while he had....let me think.....43 career starts in college.
Their "logic tells them that Jimmy G is risky because of lack of starts, but Trub's lack of starts is not risky. LOL
Their "logic tells them that Jimmy G is risky because of lack of starts, but Trub's lack of starts is not risky. LOL
One is talked about utilizing #12. The other is being talked about using a little more than 12 and if you talk to the Pats they want 2-4 first rounders.
There is a difference. Also I can't speak for others but I'm looking at Trubisky...didn't want to say Trib and confuse you. I'm looking at him in what kind of QB he will be 4 years from now putting him at the same age as JG.
I would like either one. On this team...I would feel better with Trubisky at 12.
7:07 from the Duke game, 
....sigh.
