DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Patrick Mahomes

There's way too much (defensive) talent in this draft to pick a QB you hope can start for you in a couple years.

Especially if we're talking in the 1st or 2nd round.

Maybe. I've been seeing in a lot of user mocks that with our first 4 picks, at least one of them is on a luxury position (WR, RB, TE, DT). I don't see why a QB should be excluded from that choice. Especially if we ended up trading up 1 pick. We'd then have #1, #12, #32, #57 in the draft. That's more than enough picks to help our defense.

All of those positions can play Day 1.

Literally none of these QBs apparently can/should.

So you understand the benefit of having him for 5 years then.

Only certain folks should be allowed to think outside the box .. your CEARLY NOT READY yet .. *LOL* ..

Explains your grammar.

Also funny that people who cannot grasp a lot of science don't understand the basics of analytics. Only someone who cannot understand how front offices work in today's NFL world would consider this "Outside the box".

No bro..........I'm saying the guys in this particular draft class remind me of the bums in that 2011 draft class.

I like Jimmy G because I love his skill set, his intelligence, and his leadership.

I don't see anyone in this year's draft class that can rival what Jimmy G has.

We just disagree on how we are evaluating qbs, bro.

I was trying to find a play from that game that stood out and best displayed some of the perception/opinion on Mahomes.

I think the play below is a good example of his 'plus' arm talent:

~28s mark he rips this throw up the sideline on a go/fade route


Here's one of the plays that CalDawg mentioned from the ~539 mark


I hate using only a few plays to illustrate a point, because any of the plays from the previous list imho warrant some type of discussion but...

On these plays you can see the arm talent that everyone talks about. You can also see the 5 wide air-raid spread concept offense.
One thing that stood out to me is the amount functional space he has to make these throws, for me that is one of the factors that effects the evaluation of air-raid QBs like Mahomes and Webb (another QB I like btw). Imo throwing 'from the pocket' is easier to evaluate with the non-air raid offenses because those QB are in a more traditional sized pocket.
Also, a note on play 539s. The WR is schemed open cleanly and Mahomes does put good velocity on the ball but the pass itself is actually behind the WR who makes a nice adjustment on it.

~10s mark is an example of one of his 'wild' plays


On this play he's facing a 3 man rush, and moves from a perfectly good pocket and forces a throw into coverage.


Mahomes, like any prospect, has his good plays and bad. He does flash arm talent. He does have some gym-rat Jim McMahon/Manziel and Favre to his game. He can adlib, and to me eye he's the QB prospect quickest to bail on the play and start adlibbing. Imo he's the rawest of the prospects in terms of executing a rhythm drop back passing game with consistency and discipline.

To be fare, all this year are raw at dropping back from under center.

Maybe so but what you are saying above is very different from the point I was making.

Mahomes does not display much discipline nor consistency in executing his college offense. He is quick to improvise and flee a clean pocket and doing that doesn't give the called play a chance.

When he throws he's often off balance or goofy footed and changes his throwing angle unnecessarily.

On top of that he comes from an air-raid spread where very few of the formations and concepts transfer to the NFL.

That's what a mean when I say he's the rawest prospect next to Pipkin (who I like).

Pat Mahomes - QB - Player

The Cardinals held a private workout with Texas Tech QB Pat Mahomes on Thursday.
With Carson Palmer in the twilight of his career, it's time for the Cardinals to start looking for his successor. Coach Bruce Arians said there are "five or six really good arms in this draft" and Mahomes could be one of them. Mahomes has also worked out for the Chargers, who are in a similar position with Philip Rivers nearing the end of his career. Even if it's not Mahomes, the Cardinals will certainly address quarterback in next month's draft.

Related: Cardinals
Source: Arizona Republic Mar 26 - 9:27 AM

I believe a lot of teams are gonna be looking to that early 2nd/ late first area for their QB. Good news if there is a QB run in the first we probably get a tier 2 player in the 2nd round. That's huge for the build.

Brown's I think go Webb if they fail to get Jimmy. I go mahomes latefirst but I believe we go for Webb.

If QBs get pushed back out of the first like they should.

We will get a LOT of calls about #33.

And I listen. We seem to be building for somethig next year.

Would you explain this? I can't figure it out.

I could see either taking Mahomes with their respective 1st round picks.

In the same respect I could see the Saints, Giants, KC and Steelers reload with their first round picks.

Let's hope so.

I just hope someone drafts Watson before 12.

Heck, I hope every single "top-rated" [sic] Qb is drafted before 12 and we're not stupid enough to take one w/the first overall.

Mahomes is the guy though that has the biggest complete bust potential of any of them, in my opinion.

For me that guy is Watson. Likes to go back door under pressure too often and doesn't try to extend the play, but rather to run first. I question his decision making too.

IMO Mahomes has the highest ceiling, so there is a dichotomy there.

I don't like Watson either, but there is no way he is a bigger gamble than Mahomes. No one ad libs more, is more consistently inaccurate, takes off and does crazy things than Mahomes.

I truly hope some team is stupid enough to take him early, as long as it's not the Browns.

It was a reply to this comment, just before mine:



What is it I need to explain? Seems pretty up front to me.

Well, apparently I am not as intelligent as you are.

How would trading the 33rd overall pick help us build for "next year?"

Or, are you talking about 2018?

I don't get where the run first perception of Watson comes from. Other then designed runs he's really not a take off running QB.

I agree that he made too many high risk throws.

What do you think gives Mahomes the highest ceiling?

I don't believe Mahomes is consistently inaccurate. He makes poor decisions at times, but I don't believe he is inaccurate. Also, no one is more inaccurate than Kizer has been.

Mahomes, to me, is Johnny Manziel without the poor size and the extremely poor human being. Also, Mahomes has a much better arm. I believe that is something that could work, if he is given time to learn.

Not sure that this is the best place for him but I do think he'll be a great QB if properly developed.

j/c

General statement.

Someone said something about who has the biggest "bust potential"

If generally, you're just saying "who isn't going to be good" that's fine.

But I think it depends more on where you take them.

Colt McCoy wasn't a "bust". He was a 3rd round pick that just didn't work out. (This is all JMHO, also probably semantics)

Blake Bortles is a bust. He went #3 and has become a non positive verb.

Manziel at #22 was a bust due to the overhyped aspect. Generally any first rounder that doesn't work out is a "bust"

However, say all the QBs drop. And Trubisky/Watson go in the 2nd round. And Mahomes falls almost to the third? (Not likely)

I think that lowers the "bust" factor.

We disagree on his accuracy issues. His footwork is terrible. And while he makes many good throws, he misses way, way too many throws by a freaking mile.

I can't believe how overrated this guy is.

Any QB with a cannon like his leads people to dream about if only they can fix his mechanics ....

He has a great personality, loves football, and is a natural leader so he has that much and a true cannon for an arm in his favor.

Footwork is one thing that can easily be fixed with practice. Technique can be learned. He already has decent anticipation with his throws but if he improves his footwork and throwing technique that will get much better most likely.

I think he really reminds me of Brett Favre in his early days. I think if he is not asked to start for a year or two that he could end up being the steal of this draft. If he gets forced into playing too early then all of his faults will blow up in his face and he could get ruined.

I don't have a strong desire to get him but I have fun thinking about Hue building him up into something special. I truly think HUE is the difference maker when I think about us drafting a project QB. This QB at least has the star potential.

2 key components for success of a QB.

Running game. FA helped the OL. Now run the damn ball Hue.

TE. Take Howard at 12.

Defense. Get GARRETT in here and some Safety help.

That's 3 things.

j/c:

Hue gets the call on drafting a QB and I think he likes Mahomes, and justifiably so. I also don't think Mahomes will be available when we pick at 33, so.....

With the #12 pick in the 2017 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select,....

Yes, I would take a lower 2nd this year for an added pick next year.

If that's the case, I would bet we trade back some.

You have to remember, it's about value with this FO. Mahomes in the 20's, plus another 1st or 2nd next year provides value.

I agree. At least a few would be selected before him....or at least I think they would. Who knows, maybe he is the first one off the board.

Out of curiosity is there some report or link to why you think Hue likes Mahomes or are you speculating Hue likes him because you like him?

I watched the Baylor, LSU and K-State games so far ... hes intriguing so I'll watch more today ...

Man ... his arm is LIVE .. its frickin ELECTRIC ... there's no doubt about that ...

Its so hard to judge him for me ... its never been easy with QB's and has gotten harder with the spread O's .. and this is even harder cause its like sandlot ball ...

So far its been to hard for me to determine how accurate he is and how fast/ well he processes info ...

Gonna go watch more ... initial conclusions ..

- plenty of arm
- lightning fast release .. once he makes up his mind the balls gone and there toot-sweet ..
- keeps eyes downfield when scrambling
- above average athelete and knows how to move in the pocket
- tough, stood in there even when he knew he was going to get rocked

- mechanics are brutal .. non existent .. good luck with that one ..

Tough part for me is accuracy and "decision making" ... its so hard to tell with that O .. gonna go watch some more ...

Anticipation, quick release and the ability to throw a receiver open.

Most like to discuss the offenses a QB plays in, but it is the discernment of what a given defense is trying to do, that will seperate the wheat from the chaff.

It's certainly a possibility (a trade down). However, I think trading down would be something this FO would do for other positions, but not being cute with a perceived franchise QB, if in fact that's what Hue sees. I think if Hue likes this QB, or any other one for that matter, they pull the trigger and draft him.

I also believe teams like him more than the general public and thus, although people may believe it's a reach at 12, it really may not be at all. I guess it's where you have him slated. I like him behind Trubisky.

I doubt whoever ends up with 31 or 32 stays at 32 with the Browns at 33 and we haven't taken a qb. We'd either trade up or get jumped.