DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum JG - Chapter 8

You posted college highlights of the guy.

By your logic, I can do the same with Manziel, and we should then bring him back, pay him a huge contract, and move forward. And show a couple games where manziel looked dominate. And also post all the nice things people say about manziel.

Coaches always talk nice about their players. And everyone is always in love with the backup.

Like browns fans. The lovefest for backups is crazy around here.

I love how that 1st highlight video is 3 minutes long and the 1st 30 seconds is Cody running on the field, calling a play and taking a snap.

(He does make a nice throw afterwards)

If JG was so good, why didn't any other team draft him in the first round? Why did the Vikings go for bridgewater over him? Why did the jags go Blake bortles over him? Why didn't the raiders trade up for him, and grab Carr instead?

I'm not buying into the hype over a guy with six quarters of starting experience, and got injured in his 2nd ever start.

I rather roll with Kessler. Hell, I rather draft Trubisky.

Why feel the need to deceive?

I posted the college video so people can compare it to the garbage that is coming out this year.

However, I also posted two videos from NFL games that JG started in this past off-season.

See, I get that a lot of you don't want to actually educate yourselves and watch game footage and instead want to post nonsensical opinions..........but, you will not change my mind w/all the BS.

I hope we trade for Jimmy G and I try and use factual evidence to back up my opinion rather that wild speculation and cockeyed connections.

Have a nice day, Swishy.

I didn't deceive. Stop making things up.

I think Watson or Trubisky will be better than him. Who did Jimmy G play against? A bunch of nobodies. Put Watson or Trubisky in eastern Illinois and a trash ass conference and I bet they toss 50 TD's as well.

You have your opinion. I have mine. The guy hasn't done squat to even warrant giving up a 2nd rounder for him. I rather roll with a guy who's fresh out of college.

why are other guys so hell bent on getting tajh boyd'd?

Not to mention JG couldn't even complete his back up role for Tom Brady and stay healthy. Oh wait you did. Sorry about that.

j/c

Skill set aside, bust/boom potential aside, I don't see the trade happening. If it does, I would expect it to come at the 11th hour, while we're on the clock at #12 and BB realizes the FO won't be fleeced as far as he would like. JMHO

Cleveland Browns: 3 myths surrounding a Jimmy Garoppolo trade

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2017/04/02/cleveland-browns-myths-garoppolo/

No matter what you think of the New England Patriots and quarterback Tom Brady, you can’t have a discussion about the best quarterbacks since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970 without including Brady.

Five Super Bowl trophies, two league Most Valuable Player awards, 12 Pro Bowls, Brady is the biggest lock to be a Hall of Famer entry in his first year of eligibility as anyone who has ever played the game.

But the other indisputable fact about Brady is that he will turn 40 before the start of the 2017 NFL season and the NFL has not been kind to quarterbacks once they hit that milestone.

It’s cute that the media buys into the myth that Brady will play at a high level for several more years, an idea that New England owner Robert Kraft pushed at the annual owners meeting when he claimed that Brady will play for another “six or seven years.”

History tells a far different story, however.

Only a handful of quarterbacks have played past the age of 40 and the longterm results have not been pretty:

Brett Favre led the Minnesota Vikings to the NFC Championship Game at the age of 40. The next season he played 13 games, threw 19 interceptions against just 11 touchdowns, and retired.
Warren Moon made 32 starts from ages 40 to 42, passing for 3,678 yards and 25 touchdowns for a 7-7 Seattle Seahawks team in 1997. The next season, at age 42, he was down to 1,632 yards and 11 touchdowns in just 10 starts, making him the only quarterback in league history to pass for more than 1,000 yards past the age of 41.
Vinny Testaverde kept it going until the age of 44, but his last good season came in 2004, the year he turned 41. After that, he threw for 1,758 yards, seven touchdowns and 12 interceptions total in his final three years in the league.

Even in the quarterback-friendly era of the current NFL, the odds of Brady posting more than two good seasons at the most are a long shot. And we’re willing to bet that “long shot” are not two of New England head coach Bill Belichick’s favorite words.

This argument I agree with, and have said similar, I don't think NE is actively looking to trade their insurance policy.

Which brings us to the second myth.

------------------------------------------------

The pro-Jimmy Garoppolo camp would have you believe that Garoppolo is a quarterback rarely seen in the likes of the NFL.

Hyperbole. People are saying he has the skillset and traits of a good NFL QB.

Tall (6-foot-2), strong armed and handsome, he is right out of central casting when it comes to wanting a quarterback. And talented, too! The six quarters that he has played in his three-year career are unlike anything that NFL has ever witnessed.

More hyperbole.

Which if true, raises the question of why the Patriots would be willing to trade a transcendent player like Garoppolo, even for a ransom?

If you buy into the idea that Brady will defy the entirety of NFL history and continue playing at a Super Bowl level until the age of 46 or 47, then it makes sense that the Patriots would be willing to trade Garoppolo, who is entering the final year of his rookie contract.

If New England does not do something now (if not sooner), then they “run the risk” of losing Garoppolo for “nothing” following the upcoming season as he will assuredly ride off to a new team and a big-money contract.

But time is not necessarily on the side of the Patriots.

As we’ve pointed out, Brady more than likely only has two good years left. Belichick will turn 65 in a few days, and even for someone who seems to enjoy the work, the grind of being an NFL head coach will eventually wear him down.

Does New England really want to run the risk of seeing Brady go down with an injury and have another Super Bowl run ruined because they don’t have an adequate backup? Is that really the plan?

Wouldn’t the Patriots be better off keeping Garoppolo as an insurance policy for 2017, see how things go with Brady, and then simply put the franchise tag on Garoppolo after the season? The Patriots have an estimated $42 million in available cap space for 2018, and in a league where Mike Glennon will be paid $15 million, surely the Patriots can find some cap space to pay for a once-in-a-lifetime talent Garoppolo. Right?

And more hyperbole.

And, if not, then what does that tell you about Garoppolo’s real talent?

Which brings us to our final myth.

---------------------------------------------------

While it may seem as if the Browns are the only team in the league that can’t find a quarterback, the truth is that the NFL is starved for competent quarterback play.

The San Francisco 49ers need a quarterback, but signed Brian Hoyer in free agency to go along with Matt Barkley.

Hoyer’s former team, the Chicago Bears, need a quarterback, but signed the aforementioned Glennon as a free agent.

The Houston Texans – a team reportedly built to “win now” – are rumored to be ready to roll into 2017 with Tony Romo and his 85-year-old back once Romo hits the free agent market.

The New York Jets, Jacksonville Jaguars and Denver Broncos, among others, also need a valid NFL starting quarterback.

Yet the Browns are the only team in the entire NFL that must “do whatever it takes” to trade for Garoppolo. How is that?

Teams have opted for QBs who are available to be signed now, securing at least that level of quality for their QB. They all may still be considering JG. We don't know who is examining potential trades. One thing that is generally considered is that nobody can match the Browns in trade flexibility, so there may be some who won't consider bidding against Cleveland.

Why aren’t the Texans going “all in” for Garoppolo? Head coach Bill O’Brien spent five years with the Patriots – two as quarterbacks coach and one as offensive coordinator – so you would think that he, of all people, who have an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of Garoppolo and be willing to make a move for him.

As someone else pointed out, O'Brien and Garoppolo were not in NE at the same time, null argument.

It has been argued that because the Browns have the most to spend in a trade, then they should simply spend it all to acquire Garoppolo. And while it is always fun to see a team bid against itself for a player, the Browns are working hard to become a smart franchise, so why would they do that?

If no other team is willing to trade for Garoppolo, and the Patriots really have no intention of trading him, then why in the world would the Browns make the Patriots the type of offer that they can’t refuse?

There are multiple reasons for why the Browns should take a hard pass on chasing another team’s backup quarterback. In Garoppolo’s case, the cost in terms of draft picks and a new contract – which he will certainly want as part of any trade – is too high for a player that the Browns will not even be able to talk to until after the trade is complete.

When you lay it all out on the table, it is easy to see just how misguided all the trade talk really is.

While I agree with several of its points, this article, once again, exemplifies what I have said repeatedly. Those who think Garoppolo won't be good point to his circumstances; when he was drafted, how he has been (not) used since he was drafted, who have been in his position before...all things beyond his control. Those who think Garoppolo can be a good QB point to his actual game film, to his skills and abilities that he has demonstrated both in college and in NE. That there isn't much is a valid point, but what is there is very good. Nobody is describing him in superlative terms (except those who do so mockingly), but those who like him are suggesting that he may be the Browns best option at this point, and that a trade that doesn't give up too much is worth making. The question is, how much is too much. I think everyone is agreed that #1 is off limits. Beyond that is open to debate.

I want to get Philip Rivers'd ... ya .. i know .. it was the closest i could come ...

Uhmmm..........you said I posted the college highlight video and brought up Manziel.

You completely neglected that I also showed two other videos that showed Jimmy G playing in the pros.




Uhhmmmmmm.........you were the one freaking out how does anyone like Jimmy G.

And there is a difference to how we formulate our opinions. I watched games. I watch videos. I read what his coaches say about him. I read what his teammates say about him. I read what players from other teams say about him. On the other hand, you get your opinion straight from your butt.


Btw---------no one commented on the video from week 2 where they showed every throw he made. No comments about the quick release. The accuracy. The decision making. The arm strength. The anticipation. Methinks a lot of the people ragging on Jimmy G don't have time to watch each throw he makes, but they sure have time to force their opinions down our throats w/dumb speculative articles and nonsense correlations.

I believe people did....when the video was first posted months ago. Since then, it's been re-posted 4 or 5 times.

i literally mentioned the comment about the highlight vid for pros. you must have missed that since you're clearly responding just to argue.

all i did was bring up a correlation about manziel. you're also acting as if nobody here watched the same highlight and game tape over, and over


and over

and over

and over

and over again on these boards. he has great college tape. congrats on being the same as every other QB we tried bringing to the team, or more broadly, the NFL.

matt flynn also had a great game in the nfl. shall i post that highlight too? what was it, 5-6 TD's? he got paid and then got beat out by a third round rookie.

so yea, i'm not gonna put too much stock in a guy who's been in the league going on 4 years with all of 1 1/2 games of starting film.

you do, so it's whatever. the way you go about things doesn't really mean much to me. you're the same guy who thought Wentz wasn't gonna be good, who thought whitner was better than ward, and who thought mangini was a good coach.

so the way you go about evaluating things doesn't mean much, cause you're still just a fan on the board like the rest of us. so to say i pull my opinions out of my butt, while you do all this hard work only to be wrong, is hilarious.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I mentioned liking his decision-making, arm strength and ball placement, iirc.

All true. If JG had more starts, more would approve, I presume. What is that number anyhow? When is he justifiable. I hear why he is not suitable for some, but where is that bar set? Just want some idea.

I believe everyone that falls in love with a Patriot backup is envisioning Tom Brady, now thats just my opinion, but can anyone on here name me one of TB's backups that has started an entire season and led his team to the playoffs? All I say is BUYER BEWARE ...

Who believes that Jimmy G is Tom Brady?

Oh, and let's see if I can play the game guys like you and Swish play, shall we?

Can anyone name who has backed up Marquis Williams and then led his teams to the NFL playoffs? All I say is BUYER BEWARE...

I don't know what you and Swish hate about Jimmy G? Smart , quick release , athletic, good arm, reads Defense. Yet you guys like a guy with a 49mph fastball and 16 ints.

When Jimmy came out everybody said the same things they said about Wentz. Small school hero.

Pastor, there are multiple people on this board who have stated they would love to get Jimmy. Which of them have said they want him because he is a Patriot backup? Point me to the post. Has one person used that as a reason? One?

I can't specifically, I guess I was speaking in general terms, because it just seems that way, I hear a lot of how they (Brady's Backups) have learned so much from playing behind Brady, which should be true, but it hasn't followed any of them to the field IMO, maybe he will be the first, at least I hope so if we trade for him ...

I've said before that even though I don't think he's played enough to warrant trading a 2nd rounder for him( not his fault playing behind a GOAT), if we traded a 2nd then it's all good.

But when I see posters who think he's worth #12, I get an annoying twitch in my eye.

My beef with jimmy g isn't necessarily him, but what the price it cost to get a guy who has proven absolutely NOTHING in this league.

I mean the guy got injured his 2nd ever start. If we want a fragile QB, we should've kept McCown and rg3. We already had bums who can't stay healthy. Hell, if Kessler keeps getting concussions then he's going the way of Jordan Cameron.

If the price was a 2nd or a 3rd, ya know, what's he's actually worth at this point, then fine. I'll be all aboard the jimmy g train if he came to this team.

But #12? Please. Why pay that much for a damaged good backup when you can get a fresh QB that the coach wants in the draft at #12?

I rather them roll with Kessler, or give manziel another chance before I support giving up #12 for jimmy g.

I can't remember reading anyone say that about Garoppolo except those who are arguing, as you are, that the history of Brady back-ups going on to starting roles is pretty bad. But that is lumping JG with others an not evaluating him on his own merits!

How many times have we, over the years, talked about QBs coming out of college who could be good if they can sit for a few years to learn the NFL. Here he have a guy who showed skills as good as anyone in his class but came from a small school; he needed to sit a few years and learn. He has done that. In what little time he has played, he showed the same skills he did in college, but that he has used his time on the sideline learning to adjust his game to the NFL, and an argument against him is he's just a back-up. Think about that.

Nice post, Cap.

Most posters who are pro-JG agree the limited NFL playing time makes #12 a risk, but what we recognize is that the value of QBs is grossly inflated. If the choice is using the #12 to draft a guy who needs a few years to get up to NFL speed, or a guy who is ready to start now, and their skills are comparable, the guy who's ready makes more sense. If he doesn't work out, the cost was too high. If he does, it will be praised as a great trade.

Actually I Never said anyone on this board said that, I believe I said it was my opinion ... then I asked the board a question about their backups

I don't think anyone in this draft is as good as JG was when he was drafted...

Let alone after 3 years of learning the NFL.

But whatever.

Apparently Manziel and Kessler are better than Garopollo.

I agree TG, I was being generous.

Can one of them be better in the third year of his contract making nothing? I don't know, but there is definitely a non-zero chance.

j/c:

A couple of people have said that the Jimmy G videos have been posted "before" or even "over, and over, and over." The videos have indeed been posted before.

However, it pales in comparison to the inane comparisons between Jimmy G and Cassell and the back-up qb references. I have seen the same articles posted more than once that are pure speculation and diminish what JG has done and pretend they know Brady won't play much longer.

At this point, things are being repeated. And I specifically re-posted the videos [one of which included every throw from a game] after I read one article that I have read 1 or 2 times previously.

What's more valid? Actual game footage or speculative articles that want to get clicks right before the draft?

I also have a question for all the Jimmy G naysayers. If you have watched those videos over and over and over.........how in the heck did you not notice his:

--quick decision making

--accuracy

--arm strength

--quick release

--throws w/great anticipation

--pocket awareness

--mobility

--ability to throw on the move

??????????

How did you miss those things if you have watched the videos over and over?

More than one NFL player has compared Jimmy G to Aaron Rodgers. These were not guys on a message board or reporters looking for hits, they were NFL players. Coincidentally, Rodgers was Brett Farve's backup for years. Does that mean he sucked, too?

I think the comparisons to Rodgers are valid. I do think that Rodgers' has a better arm, but then again, who does have his arm? And Jimmy G certainly has arm talent. You can see it in the videos.

It's the other things that remind of Rodgers. The moving in the pocket. The quick release. The accuracy. The moxie. The gunslinger attitude.

I am not sure about this, but I have a hunch that a lot of Jimmy G's naysayers haven't really watched the videos.

Vers, IMHO the comparison with Casell or Ostweiler are inane because now we know what Cassell and Ostweiler are, but in reality someone followed the same logic you are using now when they signed Casell and Ostweiler.

The arguments were the same...

I honestly don't see JG the way you see him. IMHO he has 1/4 of good football against Miami, his game against Arizona was very average.

Its very hard to judge how a QB will translate into a bad team by watching him play in a good team. NE offense is a very well oiled machine...

The point we should aknowledge is that if JG is good then we will not come to Cleveland, first because BB will not release him, second because he would have to be crazy to waste his career when there are so many good teams with QB needs.

By the way, I was looking for the Aaron Rodgers comparison and couldn't find it. I could find some saying that he is no AR, or comparing him to AR backup situation.

I also don't think JG arm is that good... I like his quick release, but the arm I think its just average.

On a final note to say the only reason I'm warming up o JG is because you like him, and I came to respect your opinion on QB's, but honestly I'm struggling a bit with him.

I would hate for us to trade for him and see BB draft the next Tom Brady with our pick....

"Its very hard to judge how a QB will translate into a bad team by watching him play in a good team."
====================================================

When the ball is snapped talent takes over. It does not matter who you play for.

How a quarterback plays the position is based upon what he can do.

You take a bad quarterback and put him on a good team; he will still play poorly. He will remain inaccurate. He will still make poor decisions etc. etc.

Garoppolo is not the same player as Casell or Osweiler.

When I watched college tape on Manziell.. I came away with the idea that he should not have won the Heisman.. that the Heisman should have gone to Mike Evans. Evans made Johnny Football. Great receivers have the ability to make a poor to average QB look like a Heisman Trophy winner.

So you think that Kansas and the Texans are just plain dumb?

The Texans had more film on Osweiler than we do on JG, and Kansas had more on Cassell, yet you say its different this time....

WHY?

Regarding the coment on the level of the team, I think is self evident, when you have superior execution offcourse, and superior coaching, the QB level will increase.

By the way, I fail to see any excelent game from JG, 1/4 of good play against Miami is what we have, the game against the Cardinals was average.

You cannot get a good sense of a QB from 140 snaps. There have been plenty of bad QB's who have been able to play 140 snaps well. There's also things to consider like how well that offense is ran by any QB in that system.

Here we go w/the Cassell and Osweiler thing again!

Can you please [and all the other naysayers] please address these issue?



I think skill set trumps generic crap like former back-ups, what color eyes they have, how many vowels they have in their name, etc.

I really am sooooooooooo interested in all of you addressing the things I have highlighted in green.

This may help u out bone .... i doubt it, but it may ... not sure why your bangin your head against the wall trying to educate people on something anyone with an ounce of common sense would understand .... but to each there own ... *L* ...

This is more of an aid for u to get them down the right path of why JG is more "NFL ready" today than the rooks ... cause thats what the discussion your having boils down to ...

Mitchell Trubisky - QB - Player

Texans coach Bill O'Brien said it is a "tough task" for quarterbacks to play as a rookie.
"I think that there's no substitute for experience," O'Brien said. "So, I think it's hard to ask a guy to come in straight from college and Day 1 he's a starter on your team." The comments were made at the league meeting last week, but they are much more poignant following Tony Romo's decision to retire. Even if the Texans were able to move up from No. 25 overall to land someone like UNC's Mitchell Trubisky, that player would be unlikely to solve their quarterback problem right out of the gate. With Tom Savage currently atop the depth chart, the Texans are in dire straits at quarterback (again).
Related: Texans
Source: ESPN Apr 4 - 12:38 PM

I have heared some strange asnwers on the question why JG is different from Cassell or Osweiler, the best one is because he was a 2nd round pick...

Well, If you are willing to trade for JG because he was a 2nd round pick, why not draft 1st round talent instead...

Yet, you don't think that people saying he isn't good because both he and Cassell were backups in New England?


Btw------------still waiting for you--and others--to evaluate his skill set.