DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum JG - Chapter 8

It may just take 12 to get this done. Hopefully not. Belly won't sit still until his first pick comes in Round 3. You'd think he wouldn't.

Butler just signed his Tender. Now he can be traded. New Orleans 32 pick?

Question. This might make you really giddy. If they move Butler for 32. Say they take a package of 2's plus for Garoppolo.

You're not solidly SOLD on Garrett. Would you take a deal from Tennessee for 5, 18 plus? Giving us Polo, 5, 12 and 18.

Garrett ain't God. I'd seriously consider that move.

I highly doubt Bill takes that .... matter of fact ... NO WAY he takes it ... he could get that next year in a sign and trade .... there's ZERO INCENTIVE for him to take that now when he could get that next year ...

NONE ....

And if Hue thinks Jimmy has a skill set he can with with and is his guy and is better than anyone else in the draft ..... why wouldn't he give up the 12 .... thats a serious question ... i don't get it ....

I might be wrong ... but i believe both U and the Pastor are fine with us drafting Mitch at 12 if he's Hue's guy .... so if Hue likes JG more why would u not be OK with Hue giving up the 12 and a 2nd rounder for him .... u think the 2nd rounder is that valuable? .... its all i can figure out ....

Oh well ... difference of opinion ..... not the first, won't be the last .... ....

Will be interesting to see how it plays out .... 8 or 9 more days ....

I'm not sure Butler's going to get traded ... i don't think he will .. Butler has said he won't attend anything he doesn't have to ..... i don't think he will ..... i think if NO was going to offer the 32 ... they would have all ready done it ..... we'll see ... gonna be an interesting day next thursday heating up right around ... well quite frankly ... when we go on the clock ... WHO KNOWS what may happen ... and if we take MG ... what does Frisco do .. MANY OPTIONS for Rat Jr to get his QB if he so chooses ...

Not sure what your saying ... are u saying that Bill gives Jimmy up for a pair of 2nd rounders ... and then Tenn. gives us 5 and 18 for Garret ... I would do a contingent offer ... we'd take Garrett ... then if a player we covet is there we pull the trigger when Tenn's on the clock ... i do back flips if we got that ...

JG for two 2nd round picks ... we just went to playoff contenders in a league filled with mediocrity .... he'd make everyone on O better from day 1 ...

But as i just posted to tabber and the pastor ... Bill can get a couple of 2nd rounders for JG after next year ... that's NOTHING for him .... i can't believe the reluctance of folks not to accept the sign and trade option ...

Now ... your argument about Bill not sitting still until the 3rd in THIS DRAFT ... i can see that ... for Bill I don't think the actual number or round of the pick matters ... its the value he places on JG vs the player of the player sitting there at a particular pick coupled with what else he may get ....

If Bill thinks it helps his football team he will do it ... and from that aspect ... he may make a trade no one sees coming ... u just never know with him ..... and there is a slim chance he would turn down the 12 and a pair of 2nds ... u just never know with him ...

Wow, I cannot lie idle when you make a statement like JG is game ready on Day 1 and doesn't need to learn HOW to be an NFL QB...doesn't need to learn the speed of the game..he's ready to lead and win on day 1..........

What is your basis for those kind of comments? JG only has 6 quarters of starting experience, has only attempted 94 passes in his 3-year career, and has only completed 52.3% of his passes in the winter months of Nov, Dec and Jan.

Trading for JG is just a small bit more advantageous than drafting QB due to his minimal NFL experience. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Players like Cassel and Osweiler had way more experience than JG yet you make him out to be some kind of savior.

Even if you rate JG better than every QB in this years draft, he still was and may I add, done nothing to prove that he was or is better than the 4 QB's drafted before him in 2014 except for maybe Manziel who took himself out of the picture - not necessarily his talent.

In the last 10 drafts, 26 quarterbacks have been taken in the first round. The 2017 quarterback class doesn't have any players on par with those taken in the 2015 and 2016 drafts when passers were taken with the first and second-overall picks.

Excluding the last 2 drafts of 5 first round QB selections, by broad means, a conclusion can be drawn with the other 21 first round picks, only seven, or 33.3%, arguably could be considered a success. Of those seven: Ryan (3), Flacco (18), Stafford (1), Bradford (1), Newton (1), Luck (1), and Tannehill (8), only Flacco was drafted outside the top 10 and is the only one to have won a Super Bowl to date. For every successful first-round quarterback pick in he last 10-years, there are twice as many failures as successes. However, of those picked in the first 5 picks of the last 10 drafts (excluding the last 2-years) 5 out of 9 or 55.5% can be classified as successful.

Naturally, those selected in the 2nd round or later rounds have even a poorer success rate percentage wise. Which a) brings me back to JG. As the 5th QB taken in 2014 in the second round behind Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater, and Carr with Carr being the only real success to date - the chances for success with JG is less than 15% considered where he was selected. b) Drafting a QB who is not a bonafide top 5 pick which has a 55.5% probability of being successful is a gamble that a 1-15 team cannot afford to take.

In MONEYBALL terms, there is not a QB available in this draft or to trade for JG that percentage wise makes sense for a team with so many holes coming off a 1-15 season. Just to put in perspective your trade example, if the Browns give up this years #12 and #33 picks and next years 2nd round #45 pick for example, according to Jimmy Johnson's Draft Pick Trade Value Chart - those picks would generate a value of 2200 which converts to the #3 pick overall. So no matter the year, your scenario translates into the Browns trading away draft picks of value that would now make Garoppolo the #3 pick overall with an NFL resume of 6 quarters as a starter, 94 thrown passes and being the 62nd pick (nearly a 3rd round pick) in 2014 moving him up 59 spots for 3-years of warming the bench.

There's not a GM in the entire NFL that wouldn't make that kind of a trade with the Browns. If the Browns pull the trigger then BB played us for fools we are under this scenario.

Agreed, I think the trade is a very good possibility (even if it's not with us, though we do have the most ammo). Most likely scenarios in order of probability, IMHO:

1) Trade this year.

2) Tag & Trade next year.

3) Sign & Trade next year.

4) Sign & Keep.

I think he was more matter-of-fact about it in the presser. I believe he flat out said.."No".

Now, was that a result of the Browns not being able to come to terms for a trade of JG or the fact it was never really a thing to begin with? Man was not meant to know.

I don't consider JG a "veteran" QB.

Rookie= First year in the league
Veteran= Everything else.

But that's just me.

+1

So Cody Kessler is a veteran QB?

Eh.

Well, technically, he is.

Semantics.

If a team is looking for a "veteran QB" usually it's someone who's been in the league longer than a calendar year... maybe 4?

Just saying.

+1

We need a good QB. Not all "vets" are equal. Not sure he is starter "good" yet. But I guess he is a vet (maybe part-time vet) because he has some of a season on the field.
Splitting hairs? Maybe. Just don't think he is seasoned just yet.

I'm pretty sure JG played like 3 times as many games Trubisky did in college.

Or that the fact that he was a better PROSPECT 3-4 years ago then everyone in this draft..

That must be why there are some who would not give the 12 for Jimmy because of little NFL experience but are ok with bundling the 12 with other picks to move up for Trub.

Is Jimmy considered a vet? I consider vets to be QBs who have had a significant time of playing time. He doesn't have that.

If a player is in his second year he's a veteran.

Sashi said in this last press conference there will NOT be a trade made for a QB on draft day. Sad to say this but think it's time to let this discussion close and stay closed because it's not going to happen.

Cody is saying and doing all the right things so let's hope he can back up the talk because I think he will be our starting QB unless Brock wins it out over him. I think Cody will win the starting job for this year.

The Browns never said anything about trading for JG. Media assumed they'd try because they think the Browns desperately need a QB* and JG looks to be the best veteran option. That's it and it spawned a few months of deliberation and debate on that speculative rumor.



*We'll see how desperate they are on draft day.

I think the NFLPA defines it as a player with four accrued seasons.

Given Sashi's statement, it's possible he inquired, found the price too high, and end of story.

That may well be, it does seem obvious that they'd look into it. But they never spoke of it and the sports writers pushed the idea over the top.

I'd like to have JG. But I don't see it happening.

Oh they definitely tested the waters on the trade for JG. It's just obvious that BB doesn't really want to trade him unless it's for more than the Browns are willing to give up.

Many on here were saying, "If JG is a franchise QB why would the patriots think of trading him?" Well, apparently outside of a crazy deal they are not.

I honestly hope we don't take a QB anywhere in the first round this year unless it's a trade up from 33 just to have that 5 year instead of 4 year deal.

It's La Canfora, so take it with grain of salt:



https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/855459059226595334



https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/855459274146930689



https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/855459450987180034



https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/855459595132776448

A lot of this directly opposes what more respected reporters have said and what Sashi Brown said in his press conference. I don't believe any of it, but it is probably worth discussing for some.

I actually don't believe what was said in the press conference. Unless you believe that Sashi would tip his hand and tell the other 31 teams exactly what his thoughts and plans are for the draft, I don't think anyone should believe it.

You don't publicly announce your actual plans for the draft less than two weeks before the draft unless you're a moron. I don't believe Sashi is a moron.

Let's just say for example that the Browns are close to a deal on JG, would the Browns actually say that publicly? Would they want to increase a bidding war by other teams who may be interested by announcing their intentions? I certainly wouldn't think so.

No, this is smoke and mirrors time by all 32 NFL teams. Nobody is going to tip their hand. That includes the Browns.

I have no idea what is or is not going on behind closed doors. What I do know is that the Browns aren't going to announce what's going on, or not going on as the case may be, at a press conference.

On this specific point I think his answer was unequivocal. If there were a potential trade in the works he would have given some answer that sounds negative but with qualifications that left the door open. MKC asked, "Do you envision trying to trade for a veteran QB?" Sashi answered with 1 word, "No." Door closed.

Door closed for 31 other teams. That's how this works.

My experience is that people in public relations type positions try not to out-and-out lie. They give vague answers that sound like they're saying one thing but after the facts come out, can be shown to have meant something else. When they give unequivocal answers, that is usually the truth.

I'd really love to hear the logic behind the rumor that our analytical FO wants to take one of these QBs at #1 over anyone in this draft, let alone Garrett.

And adding in the "owner wants a QB" just sounds like crap stirring.

It sounds like crap stirring to me too.

Jimmy Garoppolo - QB - Patriots

Karen Guregian of the Boston Herald considers it a "long shot" that the Patriots will trade Jimmy Garoppolo before or during next week's draft.

The Browns are still gunning for Garoppolo but the Patriots don't seem to have much interest in dealing their backup quarterback. With Tom Brady planning to play several more years, it's puzzling that New England would allow Garoppolo to leave in free agency without pursuing a trade. If Garoppolo does find his way to Cleveland, the Patriots would likely draft a quarterback as insurance for Brady, who turns 40 in August.

Source: Boston Herald Apr 23 - 11:22 AM

Cleveland Browns: Is The Price Now Right For Jimmy Garoppolo?


With the Cleveland Browns rebuilding for the future, the price has reportedly become manageable for Jimmy Garoppolo — but is it right for them now?

The Cleveland Browns have been connected to hypothetical Jimmy Garoppolo trades for the entirety of the offseason. However, with the 2017 NFL Draft just a few days away, it seemed that most of that chatter had died down. In short, the New England Patriots’ price was too steep and the Browns weren’t willing to play ball. That might be changing, though.

On Sunday morning Pete Prisco of CBS Sports reported in a brief tweet that the No. 12 overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft and a second-round pick in 2018 would pry Garoppolo away from the Patriots. Prisco then followed that up when questioned by CBS Sports colleague Dane Brugler, saying that the reason a deal isn’t done yet at that price is because the teams are “playing poker.”

First, it’s important to address the fact that this close to the draft is the time that smokescreens are in abundance, as are leaks with some sort of agenda behind them. Subsequently, there’s no guarantee that’s the exact price it’ll take to grab Garoppolo.

But operation under the supposition that it will require only those two picks, the Browns are now put in an interesting position. Considering that Cleveland might’ve already been in a position where they would need to trade up from No. 12 to get the guy they want, would it be in their better interest to instead trade the pick for Jimmy G?

That really all comes down to assessment of the quarterbacks in question. Do the Browns believe that Garoppolo has a better chance of being the franchise player they need at the position than the likes of Mitchell Trubisky or Patrick Mahomes? We’re not in their front office, so we can’t definitively know the answer to that question. However, knowing what we do about this draft class at quarterback, Garoppolo would appear to be the more enticing option.

What’s more, Garoppolo would also have a more immediate impact on the team. Whether it would be Trubisky, Mahomes or someone else, chances are that a rookie isn’t taking the reins of the Cleveland offense this season. That job likely belongs to Cody Kessler, or even Brock Osweiler. If they were to trade with the Patriots, though, that job then falls to Garoppolo.

There is always concern when it comes to trading with New England that complicates matters. Yes, the Browns seemingly will benefit from dealing with the Pats to get Jamie Collins. But in this particular situation, is Bill Belichick really trying to get value for Garoppolo before he leaves — or is he aware of something about the young player that others aren’t after seeing him in practice? That’s another aspect that the Browns will have to decipher.

For my money, though, the Browns have to make the trade if Prisco’s reported price is on the table. There’s no guarantee that any of their options are franchise players for the future. However, the chances that Garoppolo is that player are higher to me than to any of the others. What’s more, if they’re right in going in on Jimmy G, that actually increases the value of the trade as the team will improve immediately in 2017 and the second-round pick a year from now becomes less valuable.

A rebuilding process is a game of chess and the Browns have been protecting their king to this point. But at some point, you have to make a move in the interest of winning. Trading for Jimmy Garoppolo could be that move. Even better for them, though, they have enough draft capital to fall back on (and a loaded 2018 quarterback class) if that trade is ultimately fruitless.

https://nflspinzone.com/2017/04/23/cleveland-browns-rumors-jimmy-garoppolo-trade-price-drop/

Damn, and I had accepted the Garoppolo trade was dead.

"still gunning for"? Have we made an offer or has anyone that matters even said we were interested? This chick sounds like the Mary Kay of the pats.