DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Browns pick DeShone Kizer with the 52nd pick

And then he becomes an asset.

Not trying to be a dick, but can you guys show me where you pimped Kizer before the draft? Because, I sure as hell don't remember too many people doing so. In fact, I seem to remember more negative commentary than anything else.

One more thing.............I remember taking Kizer in one of those mock drafts. Might have been at 52 or 65. I got laughed at for that one.

Look, the guy has some tools............but, will there ever be a time when y'all are honest?

Thanks vers I appreciate the kind words.

I had Kizer rated mid to late 2nd round possibly third. IMHO we took him right where he should have been drafted so I am pretty happy with the pick. If Cody does well then Kizer can take time to learn while Kizer shows enough for us to release Brock and save cap space. Then we go ahead and draft another project QB or bring in a bonafide franchise QB. I really want to see how well cody progresses as a QB this season unless he just gets demolished.

Thanks mate I been doing OK lately. Getting ready to take my 8 year old and 10 year old daughters camping to teach them survival skills and work on some light aikido training. Their mommy doesn't want me to push them too hard so I gotta take it easy on em for now but I will make darn sure they can use a bow drill this summer to start a fire.

I think Hue is the perfect coach for Kizer so I am looking forward to see how Kizer does as a Brown.

You've got a strange way of looking at things. Value in the second ? And needs coaching. And you think people are pimping him??? Those don't equate.

Mid season people wanted him to come out and take him high in the first and Diam repeatedly said it would not happen coz he wasn't ready.... That was before it got super caustic with Kelly. That was way b4 draft time.

I guess sticking to my post. You must think disagree and think Frye Manziel and Colt looked more like an NFL QB than Kizer. And you obviously didn't think Pit would take him and develop him. . . Fair enough I guess.

In response to your other take that a huge bunch of homers are now anointing him... You'll have to cut and paste the quotes coz I haven't seen it.

Here is my first ever public report on Kizer:

Strengths:

--Great size at 6'4, 230+ lbs.

--Very good arm strenth

--Doesn't cower in the pocket

--Seems to be a team guy

--Was asked to make pre-snap reads and reportedly did a good job in this area


Concerns:

--Inconsistent accuracy. Can thread the needle and throws a nice deep ball, but man, he misses some throws by miles. I mean............they aren't even close.

--Doesn't read coverages. Throws to where his pre-snap read dictates. Ouch!

--Related to above..........stares down receivers. That will lead to picks.

--Base is a bit too wide. Needs to get front foot closer to front shoulder. No, I don't have a link. Just my own observation.

--According to reports, his confidence seemed to falter at ND. Yeah, Kelly is a jerk........but what about if he throws a bunch of picks and he gets ripped by fans and the media while in the NFL? How will he handle that? Kelly's meanness doesn't even compare to how bad NFL QBs get scrutinized.

Summary: I think he has a shot because of raw physical attributes. However, I question his mental make-up, his mechanics, and ability to read coverages post-snap.

I will not be surprised if he makes it as a decent qb and I will not be surprised if he teases the folks for awhile but ultimately busts!

Thank you. I don't believe I am permitted to respond beyond that.

I'm on a tablet and it ain't easy typing now. I'll explain what I meant tomorrow. Bottom line, like u I wassnt trying g to be a dick .... I don't see people pimping Kizer.

Perhaps we have a different definition of how I am using the word "pimping?"

Can you show me where you advocated us drafting Kizer?

Going into the 2016 season, the three most talked about QB' that could come out were:


Watson
Kizer
Kaaya

Watson had a good but not great season, and the int's became an issue.
ND did not have the same team as 2015 and Kizer did not match his 2015 form.
Kaaya, I believe hurt his foot and struggled as well.

Trubisky and Webb were not on the radar as they were replacements.

We are talking about pick 52. the only question is that is Kizer false hope for next year with Darnold, Rosen and others potentially coming out.

I am willing to let this play out. There is nothing to lose, other than the selection, QB selection is a hit or miss proposition, and until you find one, you do not have one. And you can't win successfully without one. So he was worth the pick.

So, Kizer of the three looks most like a prototypical NFL QB, and I can accept that. Does he need work, yes, but does he represent a higher skill set than Kessler, absolutely. But for NFL QB's success is a function of skillset and intelligence, so while the skill are there, the mental aspect is in question, with Kessler, its the exact opposite.

Kizer went to Notre Dame, so he is no slouch intellectually. I'm sure he can pick up and process anything that is required of him. I did not want Kizer with a first round pick, nor did I want any of the top 4 QBs with a first round pick, but stated if any of the 4 fell to the 2nd pick of the 2nd round ( # 52 ) I would be ok with it. I did not specify Kizer, but he was one of the 4 QBs in question. I thought, and still do, that it would be a tremendous stretch for the Browns to take any of the 4 QBs with picks 1 - 33, because there were so many areas of need that picking a QB that high would be setting them up to fail.

I am good with Kiser now. I was just worried we were going to pass on good players to nab him in the first round. I think he has a chance to be pretty darn good, especially now that he doesn't have 1st round status looming over his head.

I did mention in the Kizer thread pre-draft that I wouldn't take Kizer in the first round but would be okay taking him in the second round. It's right there because someone brought that thread to the top of the page and said 'what did we say about Kizer pre-draft'. . . I did't mention #33 - but that was my expectation at the time.

Personally I don't think advocating taking someone in the 2nd round (or beyond) is pimping a guy. And personally I don't think you have to pimp/talk about every player you'd like your team to draft before the draft to make it true that you like a pick. . . . . I bet there wasn't a lot of Redskins fans pimping Allen before the draft. No-one thought he'd be an option. Not many Colts fans could have pimped Hooker before the draft because he wasn't expected to be there at 15. It wouldn't then mean that those same fans were not happy with those selections.

I agree that being devoid of that first round savior label is potentially a big factor, especially in Cleveland.

I've been watching some 2015 and 2016 Notre Dame games over the past couple days trying to get a better feel for what Kiser brings. I watched him some in real time over the past couple seasons too but wanted to go back and take a look again. I've seen 3 games now...I'm still trying to sell myself on whether or not he's got what takes to be a 'franchise' QB.
I will say this, I'm just now finishing up watching ND v USC 2015, Kessler v Kiser... Kessler was the better QB that day. Period. USC lost, and Kessler threw 2ints late. One was a great throw in coverage that glanced off the WRs hands. Great play by the DB. I can't give Kessler that one. The other was a bad throw. In general Kessler was so much more accurate and decisive...Kiser was so much more athletic. I'm not sure how good or bad this is for us.
Just an observation.

If anything.

Just don't ever play him.

And then trade him for 3 1sts in a couple years.

And get him to change his name to Garappolo.

Means we still don't have our QB.

Diam? Hopefully you're writing a book.

Let's hear it. Anticipating your take on this Kelly-Kizer thing.

He's spell-checking his reply

Adding all his periods........

*LOL* ,,,,,, spell check broke and i lost the period button ,,,,, I'll just use commas instead ,,,,, the spell check thing could be a deal breaker ,,,,,

Been super busy ... i'll get it up by 11:59 PM tomorrow night ...

[quote=DiamDawg]

Been super busy ... i'll get it up by 11:59 PM tomorrow night ...

[/quote


That's what I told my wife

On a purely optimistic approach, Kizer could have had the same fate a University of Pittsburg QB had back in the 80's. A great career but a vary suspect senior year. Cost him a high first round pick to the end of the first round. Hope we might have found our Marino!

He does not have as quick of a release as Dan, but shows some great qualities. Got my fingers crossed.

I'd say he's more of a QB that played collegiately at Miami and ended up in Pittsburgh.

His numbers in year two at ND line up fairly well with Roethlisberger's 2nd season at Miami (of Ohio). Especially if you throw out the hurricane game vs. NC State.

Ben 22 TDs, 11 INTS 63.3 Completion Percentage Link
Kizer 26 TDS, 9 INTs 58.7 Completion Percentage (61.6 w/o hurricane game-may be some rounding error) Link

He'd obviously have some growing to do, but that could be his potential.

Kizer never even crossed my mind for Cleveland. Not sure why Lol.

I'm massively intrigued with this dude now that he's here.

I'm loving the news that Hue gave him some pointers and the next time he saw him he'd obviously been working on those pointers. That's indicative of a Coachable player.

The single most beneficial thing that can happen to us is Kizer grasps the Offense and continues to work those Mechanics, improving his accuracy to a point to where we don't HAVE TO look QB in next year's draft.

It would be HUGE if we can use all 5 high picks next year on players NOT playing QB. That would be GOLD.

I love Kizers SIZE. Proto-Type. And 77% Accuracy on Play Action is a solid base.

For me, I never thought he would be there at 52. I wanted Garrett, either Hooker or Marcus Williams at FS, and a third impact guy (a defender or OJ Howard) with our top 3 picks. I assumed Kizer, Watson, Trubisky were not even options, so I didn't look into them too much. After we drafted Kizer, I watched his draftbreakdowns that I posted on here and was really impressed and hopeful.

I hope you're right, steve.

It's so daggone hard to evaluate college qbs anymore. I am less confident in my ability to evaluate those guys than any other collegiate position.

Lol... you, me, and everyone else. I'm not certain he'll succeed, but I think he's got a pretty good shot. That's better than most and worth the shot here I think.

I don't think you can really evaluate a QB. Most of it is between the ears and in the heart.


You can eliminate some players, but even then? Not all that many years ago people couldn't decide between Peyton Manning or Ryan Leif, and that was before the spread O. Last year we had Dak show up as a 4th or 5th round pick. Young and Marino were lower round picks. Before that Dawson, Tarkenton, and Unitis.


My opinion is all you can do is throw a dart. Heck, Brady was what, a 6th round pick?

That was a concern I had with Watson. Mike Williams has a huge catch radius, and caught a lot of ... less than ideal passes from Watson.

So much depends on how well Hue sets him up for success. Will he sit, watch, and learn for a while? Will the right side of the O-line be solidified? Will the run game be featured and be successful enough to keep pressure off him? Will the receivers group perform in a way that ensures success, or will we see our usual bevy of drops and poor routes? And will Hue & Co. coach him up to the point where he makes good decisions, reads defenses well, improves his mechanics, and finds the open man?

A lot of questions for sure. But worth a shot, as you say.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns coach Hue Jackson expects rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer to draw comparisons to Ben Roethlisberger because of his size, arm strength and mobility.

"I don't know that I've coached a guy with this kind of skill set," Jackson said Thursday on team's in-house radio show, Cleveland Browns Daily on WKNR 850 AM. "But he's a big powerful man, so I know he's going to get compared to another guy on another team in our division.

"I'm not going to talk about [Roethlisberger] because he's that big and he has that kind of arm. He's very mobile. So again, I don't like to compare players and I know people will, but he's got to come in and do what he can do and be the best version of him and that's what we're going to allow him to do.''

That's not all Jackson will allow him to do. He reiterated that he won't dampen Kizer's enthusiasm for becoming the Browns' starter this season.

"We've got to coach him from the ground up, but we're working with a guy that's very talented,'' Jackson said. "This is a guy who has a skill set that's going to allow us to push and prod and get him to where he needs to be. ... I don't think we're going to rush to stick him out there but, at the same time, I'm not going to stop him from being out there if he demonstrates those skill sets very quickly."

Kizer has all the physical attributes Jackson covets, including a prototypical 6-4, 233-pound frame.

"He's a big man," said Jackson. "He has the AFC North stature that I love. He has a big arm. He's very intelligent. He's played in a real big-time football program. He understands the demands of playing the position. He understands the demands of being a quarterback and the face of a franchise.''

But he'll have to beat out Cody Kessler, Brock Osweiler and Kevin Hogan to start games.

"I have to allow these guys to compete,'' he said. "I can honestly say that the group is ahead of where I thought they'd be. Cody's done a great job, Kevin has too and Brock has walked into the building and he's done an outstanding job. I think all three of those guys are doing exactly what I thought they'd do and even moreso.

"And we're going to have a chance to add DeShone into this as well, so I'm excited about the room. We still have a ways to go, but I know without question that we're further along than what we were a year ago.''

As for Kessler, Kizer's likely main challenger, Jackson said, "he's stronger. The ball is stronger. He looks more compact and stronger in the pocket when he's throwing the ball. Again, we've just been in drills and those type of things, but I can tell that he has really worked extremely hard this off-season."

The Browns will get their first look at Kizer on the field next weekend in rookie minicamp.

Link

Jesus, let's not start comparing him to Big Ben. I mean, Ben was a better college player than DeShone. No question about it. He was better than Rivers too, and Rivers was a good College QB. IMO, there's no QB in this class that stood out the way that Big Ben did, the only thing against him was that he played in the MAC. But he was head and shoulders above any MAC QB i've ever seen (although I never saw my main man Chad Pennington, lol)

He was the 53rd pick for a reason........


I really hope that DeShone can just stay on the bench for at least most of the year. Let Cody, Brock, and Kevin duel it out.



I like hearing about this though. Cody is looking more confident, hopefully Brock has a bit of a chip on his shoulder that helps motivate him to improve, and even Kevin Hogan is working. That's the biggest thing. There's a ton of guys who would love to be an NFL QB out there, it's not just talent, it requires a ton of work. Manziel never figured that one out.

I knew that Cody would be working his butt off. That's what he's always done. Since his time at USC that's what he's done. He had to compete to win the job against Max Wittek at USC. He had to hold off Max Brown as well. He wasn't an early offer by USC neither. He played for four coaches at USC also (which means every year he had to show back up and prove himself).

Cody is a fighter. I'm telling you, if there's anything he can do to make himself better, he's gonna try and do it and give it his best shot.


We've heard very little about Brock and Kevin Hogan this offseason though, so it's reassuring that at least Hue has said they've been doing their best. I don't know much about Hogan as a pro (only one game and he's rarely talked about). Same with Brock. I'd like to see something more about both of them from the media. What they've been working on, where they've been, and so on

I thought Hue was comparing him to Greg Landry.


Just kidding. Don't shoot me.