http://draftbreakdown.com/players/deshone-kizer/

http://presnapreads.com/2017/04/05/deshone-kizer-and-diverging-traits/

I love the way he moves his feet in the pocket and feels pressure. I hate how bad he is at throwing the ball.

He's got the tools, let's hope Hue can live up to his QB whisperer reputation. Maybe the more positive coaching approach will suit him better.

I'm OK with this pick here. I would have been extremely irritated if we would have taken any of the QBs in the 1st.

seriously?

Tom Pelissero‏

The #Browns are taking DeShone Kizer. He told me he'd love to turn around that franchise. Now gets his chance.

His biggest problem is that he's the best QB on the roster. I let him take his lumps on the field and see him blossom.

I'd love to turn around that franchise too and I'd start by not drafting another ND quarterback. Here's our QB.
DK, meet Mary Kay. You'll soon be joined at the hips.

Edit: numerous typos

Yeah, I'm with you. At least we took a project QB with a low first/second round grade ... In the middle of the second. And didn't panic trade up for him.

Mary Kay finally has her QB to write about.

Hue Jackson has his project.

Greg Gabriel‏


Cleveland got an outstanding talent in DeShone Kizer. He will be the QB the Browns are looking for

This might sound crazy, but I kinda love this pick. Maybe in an MKC kind of way.

YES!!!! Great pick!!

I think Kizer can do everything you want a QB to do, I just don't think he can do it all the time. Hopefully HueJack can get it out of him.

Every QB on the roster is a project ahaha. He has his hands full.

So now we drafted a QB. What else are people going to beach about?

I'd have rather taken a corner.

+1

I like.

Hopefully Grossi, Rizzo and Goldhammer will be able to sleep tonight now that they got a QB.

How many years will he and the Browns continue, if he's good, maybe he can have a 15 year career.

I hope he's good, I hope he helps them beat Pittsburgh!

Love the kids size..let's how we found something

I'm surprised you say that but happy. I sort of wanted webb because he lives and breAthes football.

Hope Kessler keeps him on the bench for a while, and that Hue works some magic.

This has to be Hue - his ego believes he can fix what's wrong with the kid.

We brought Hue here to get a guy and develop him.

If he wants to hitch his wagon to Keizer - so be it.

I wonder if he was the fave QB all along, or if we got caught short on Mahomes or Watson? Whatever, I'm okay with taking him at 52 - he has a high ceiling, IMO.

Hate it. So much instant impact still there.

We are due aren't we ... Maybe this is the kid that will be the one

At 52, it was a reasonable selection.

All our projects seem to get thrown to the wolves before we even have a chance to tutor them. I do like his size though.

This draft cannot get any worse.

He is by far our best QB. I think he starts week one.

Who did you want. Pick one player

Honestly I give a little bit of a pass to anyone who played for that [censored] Kelly. Kizer is a douche but the guy has got some skills. If he's jay cutler this is an excellent pick.

If Sutton is there at 65 he's the pick. Book it.

I kind of agree with you, but, people want a QB, so we gave them another QB.


Welcome to the team. I hope you are the one.

Now they have a Qb, what are they going to put around him?

He was the one QB the Clowns were very quiet about....you may be right....they clearly didn't want Watson at 12.

He has the size and arm strength...we will see...

Yeah it's alright. Glad we didn't reach in an earlier round.

My philosophy is what tony dungy says.

You got a guy that's suppose to be the franchise, you start his ass day 1. That's the fastest way these kids develop is to play.

I hate ND so bad I really don't know too much about him. If decision making g is his only issue I'm sure someone can help him improve. That's if he's got some sort of brain.

They are going to beach about taking a QB instead of a corner

I do not love the pick. But I do not hate it. Kizer has talent, hopefully we can bring it out. Could have used a CB or another S that would provide immediate help. Maybe we will trade our 3rd rounder to move back later in the third and maybe get a 4th rounder.

The kid needs a lot of work - I am sure we will hear about an open competition in camp but he might need 8 / 10 games watching first - he will be lucky if CK & BO can avoid being concussed before the week 9 bye

Can't get worse? We got an elite pass rusher, a safety and the 2nd best TE in the first along with a first next year. Now we took a QB. Even if Kizer doesn't become our franchise QB and is just a solid backup it's worth a low 2nd. I usually hate our drafts but right now I'd grade us as an A- so far.

Who said he is the franchise guy? He's a 2nd round pick. We are throwing a dart here.

I'm OK with it...3rd string, hopefully doesn't play and can develop. If they don't like what they see in the next year, draft one in the first round

Who was the guy Hue sent RG3 out to train with last off season?

Draft the whole lot. You'd think we'd have to hit something!

Well he's big, strong and has the arm strength. He's probably 2 years away from starting. If he gets good coaching and he isn't thrown to the wolves like so many other of our qb's we may have something. Patience and teaching that's what is needed here. I hope he becomes a future pro bowler.

Tom House. Kessler has been with him all off-season.

Come on bro. He got picked to potentially be the guy.

At least we have a new QB to talk about.

Kizer is from Toledo? That's something for some people to hang on to.

Time to get Kizer out there and start practicing too. Send Brock out as well.

Know how I know you probably havent paid much attention to what this team has done this off-season?

I'm ok with the pick..l wasn't a reach... Kid has talent but is inconsistent... Hopefully he can gain some consistency... I'd prefer he sit for awhile...

Yeah, i hate to tell people this, but he might clearly be our QB1.

and how has that worked out in the past? Play him when he's ready not before

BO is our starter if he has ANY drive at all. I'm hoping Kessler astounds us though...

Really wanted Alvin Kamara here. We didn't reach and that's where all the qbs should have went but I feel we still will be drafting one early next year.

Well they didn't reach. They let the pick come to them and didn't trade up. Also Kizer had no help at Notre Dame. Who knows, maybe the kid will be ok. But it tells me that the job is Kesler's to lose.

I had a strong feeling he was going to be a Steeler ... the more I think about it, the more I like the pick. Its like the lottery: you can't win if you don't play. We are due to catch a break with a QB.

I know what we've done in free agency on the offensive line

That has very little to do with the quality and fragility of the quarterback room

RG3 & McCown are good examples of cuncussing themselves with their play (holding ball to long / not sliding etc ) - glad we are past them .....

But CK has a history and BO sucks


So go ahead and tell me how you know what you know

The fact tat Hue thinks that he is a " QB Whisper " is going to ruin him as a head coach .. This was another wasted pick ..
Take him the forth or fifth and would say fine . I really don;t want Hue picking my QB !

I wonder if MKC has tweeted him asking for a soiled jock strap to hang on her wall.....

http://presnapreads.com/2017/04/05/deshone-kizer-and-diverging-traits/

Interesting article on Kizer, has lots of GIFs though, so won't try to copy and paste.

So Kizer is something like Jeff Garcia and Derek Anderson? That's what I gathered from the article.

Teach him to throw accurate passes, and maybe we've got a winner on our hands.

All three guys are second round talent

BO was drafted there and has never proven anything to me to change that

Kessler has played above his third round status and has a little upside

Kizer is the new 2nd rounder with the most upside



I am rooting for Kessler to start and pass to Kizer in game 10 / 12

Good article!

j/c:

Our draft is getting ugly. Terrible pick.

It appears the Browns desire physical specimens over football players.

our draft is not ugly , just this pick in the second round

It's been a long time.

We traded the 12th overall pick and ended up w/Peppers. We moved up for a TE that isn't as good as some guys who were drafted later than him. We drafted a qb that makes some of the ugliest throws in the world.

We did get Garrett, though.

Here's hoping kid,,,,

I do wish he had a little more confidence.

I'm ok with yesterday .. they really reached in the second , and I hate that.. To much talent still sitting there . They could take Three QB'S in the fifth for Hue to play with and I wouldn't care ..

From now on, it's Mary Bae Cabot.

Mary Bae QB

She's terrible

Wanted Webb, but liked Kizer as well. Good pick. Has all the tools to be the real deal.

I said it before...Kizer reminds me of Logan Thomas...for all of our fan base, i hope that im wrong.

But you said after he was drafted you liked the pick. Why are you saying this now?

I think what really intrigued the Browns to nab Kizer...is he has experience being benched...so he's already used to playing Cleveland football ...joke aside I hope he can adapt and make positive changes.

I don't get it.

OBI was sitting right there for us to grab.

Kizer is only gonna see the field this year if two guys go down and we aren't passing on a QB like Darnold next year.

This is the only pick in the draft so far that I don't like.

It's not horrible, but we passed on a starter for a guy that probably will never see the field.

You are.

God I hope you're wrong. I've been impressed by Kizer before. Logan Thomas at Vtech always seemed so overrated

j/c:

I can't remember people pimping Kizer before the draft. Who did?

'DeShone Kizer drafted No. 52 by Cleveland Browns'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/browns_draft.html#incart_maj-story-1

Read some of the top comments. Scorching.

....how long before? I think I did before this past college season started.

Pimping him as a top QB that should be taken in the first round? Very little, if any. Discussing him at a later selection that needs time?.....sure, that was discussed. But "pimped" is not the word to use.

LOL...........me too.

I don't think he was high on most poster's lists towards the end, but now he is "a good pick."

I hope he proves me wrong and he might.........but, I do not like this pick.

I think people are simply delighted Browns drafted a QB. It is a check list thing.

I like the pick can't say I'm thrilled. Browns missed on some good DBs taking DeShon. Drafting second round buys a little time forcing this kid to start. Pressure is on Kessler and BO to play well keeping this kid holding a clip board.

A second round flier is OK with me. If the kid can be coached, he might be good until the real deal arrives.

I got a weird feeling that Kessler is going to be much better this year. If that happens and they let this kid learn, who knows.

As for a wasted pick, I don't agree. There are only so many QBs available each year, and we don't have a sure fire guy yet. You got to draft them to find one. A second round pick for a QB needy team is not a bad move. There is always a chance.

That's how I see it. I figured he'd be gone by late 1st, early 2nd in this high demand QB market. Can't say I pimped him, but I see value at the pick. I just hope he has the most important attribute, obsession with the job. QBs gotta work the hardest in the NFL.

Measureables look good. Had to leave ND, with how Brian Kelly is IMO. I think we got him at a good deal. Hopefully We coach him well and he works his butt off

I do agree though. Kessler is gonna surprise. People seem to forget he was a rookie last year on an awful team. I think Kessler does have that obsessive attitude and competitiveness that will put up a big fight. Cause he won't give up the job without a fight to anyone. Hopefully the game slows down for him, he throws the ball sooner, and starts seeing more of the field this year


QBs come from everywhere. doesn't mean we won't try again next year, doesn't mean we will

JETs were crucified for wasting a 2nd round pick on Christian last year...we might have just done the same.

I can live with this pick. They are atleast trying to address the QB position. I cant fault them
For that. Keizer had talent, if he can put it altogether.

This restores some faith in our FO for me...they are at least trying. Let's hope he works out!

Also, Kessler is like one concussion away from
Being out of the league. Kessler needs to sit...for his own good and his own health.

Thanks.

To be concise: Shows ability, but really struggles w/accuracy.

He was interviewed and said 2nd one wasn't as bad as first. I think they sat him out of precaution and RG3 was back

Kizer is a Hue guy. Hue has had a lot of success in making guys like Kizer better *Flacco, Campbell, even Palmer to an extent*.

Hes definitely worth a flier at 52 and as our 4th pick. If he pans out, its our Derek Carr.

I really liked Kizer early. He was hurt by a poor offensive line and losing Prosise and Fuller to the NFL. He was really good in 2015. Watch his Stanford game, he beat a damn good team with his feet, arm and mind.

Palmer had his best years in Oakland?

FWIW, he's probably better than the last seven QBs we've drafted.

I don't care how many QBs they take, just find "The Guy" so we can stop being embarrassed annually. For all we know he's on the team already, in next years draft or still in high school... But the only way to find him is to take these shots. None of these QBs in this class screamed franchise to me but Tom Brady in the 6th didn't either.

Now I'm not saying we'll find a Brady but we might find the guy if we keep taking shots. We already know investing too much in a QB that is not outstanding is usually wasted value in picks/trades/etc. Why cry when they take a shot on a guy at good value? Makes no sense to me.

I don't particularly like this pick but I understand it and will back it. Personally I hope either with a late rounder or undrafted FA we end up with Jerod Evans on the team this year. I think that kid has the potential to be a more athletic Big Ben, and his numbers just don't show it. Probably wrong but would love to see us put him through the paces.

Well, he was out of football the year before, so I guess in a way, yes.

But no, Palmer had a bad year with Hue.

Can't be much worse than Derek Anderson.

I hope so. Hue officially on his career clock. Kiser determines whether he ever coaches in the NFL again. To me, I say it is a tall order. Haslam aboard?

I wish not to be so negative, so GO IRISH! GO KIZER!!

We acquired DA from Baltimore's practice squad. We spent a 2nd round pick on Kizer.

I wouldnt say never coaches again. He could easily go back to Cincy.

But yes, this is now Hue's guy. Hes the future according to Hue. Hue is putting his neck out there for Kizer.

Its very boom or bust. Because Kizer can literally be, IMO, a top 5 QB or out of the league in 5 years.

Kizer's got the goods. Only question to me is does his character let him succeed

I hope Hue doesn't need to go there.

Kizer can do it. Does the Browns...Haslam...have patience?

Again, I like the guy. My problem Browns passed on a couple of corners.

I'm lone wolf here. I like seeing a team take a bold move downsize the QB position. Browns new front office looked like they might go that direction. I hate how the NFL made a single position key making it one way the only way.

Stepping down off my soapbox!

If you got a guy that's supposed to be the franchise, you draft him #1 ... and most people agree with the selection.

As I've said before, there are two types of QBs that go on to be stars ... those that are Day 1 Franchise saviors, that get drafted #1, and those that have potential and get drafted later on.

If you're guy is in that second group, you:
- Don't over draft them
- Take your time with them
- Hopefully plug them into a team that's got the rest of the roster in order.

Historically, look at the good QBs that WEREN'T #1 picks that have succeeded. They generally follow two of those three criteria. (Big Ben, Brees, Carr, Dak, Brady, Flacco, Cousins, etc)

That's why the Kizer pick is decent. He's a borderline first rounder that we got in the middle of the second. That's good value, which also means he doesn't come in with tons of pressure on him from the get-go. He's also got a revamped offensive line in front of him, a first-round WR and TE to work with, and a decent RB in Crowell. We just need to take our time with him and let him learn the system. Put him in when he's ready, and he may just succeed. Historically, that's what works.

Don't like this pick.

Why was 15 Kizer so good and 16 Kizer so bad?

Also, he's from Ohio! He is here to redeem the souls of Frye, Quinn, and Hoyer!

Lots of talent left, Kelly tried to force Zaire into the mix.

Kizer, though, also struggled to improve on any weaknesses that he has shown. For a guy thats started nearly 2 full seasons, he is basically the same guy.

Not sure if thats on Kizer or Kelly, or both. I do know Brian Kelly is a jerk and should be fired ASAP.

good stuff. he can be as good as he wants to be.

Kiser determines whether Hue ever coaches again?

For goodness sake, it's pick 53. Our 4th pick of the draft. That means we alone picked three guys ahead of him (while trading down & acquiring an additional 1st round pick next year).

I don't think a mid 2nd round flyer on a QB is anything more than taking a calculated chance.

Hitching a wagon is trading up to two for Trubisky. Let's not make this more than it is. He saw a guy he thought had potential at the games most important position at 53. He took him.

No wagon has been hitched

I understand that. So did Kessler. The thing about Kizer is he has the tools that Kessler lacks, and Kellser has some tools that Kizer lacks. The advantage with Kizer is some of his negatives can be coached.

We'll see. I really don't expect to see him much this year, but who knows, maybe he takes off and by game 10 or so he gets his chance to show what he has. I hope he or Kessler does enough this year that we can put the QB talk away for a decade or so.

Totally agree. It's also a bit of a conundrum - if we don't see enough of Kizer this year but he has shown glimpses, would we still go for the QB next year? I would say yes but it may muddy the waters slightly. Options are never a bad thing I guess

I hope Kessler or Kizer do enough - would be good to have an answer of sorts.

I love that you love this pick.

Not a QB Guru at all, not even a little. But Kizer has the measurable. Height, Weight, all there. I've read that he's also a smart kid. Size and Brains! I can't measure courage but I assume the team feels he's got that also.

So the question is, can Hue Jackson show him how to be the starter. Can he help him be the best he can be?

I'm not overly excited or depressed about this pick. We'll see what we have.

But I have to say this, I hope to hell we got our guy for the next 10+ years.

The three games I posted were from 2016, and I thought those were pretty damned good.

steve, what do you think of his accuracy?

this

Wow! After watching Kizer with Gruden, I am stoked. He's extremely smart and seems like a confident leader to me. Everyone gushes about his arm and ability. I'm ready to see what Hue can do with him.

Ok, so what irks me about Kizer is that he has some growing up to do. He comes across poorly, and someone needs to mentor him. The skills are there, the maturity is not.

One doesn't have to like a pick for it to be value at that spot. I didn't like the Kizer pic either but i understand it and it was about where the other 3 Qbs should have been picked at but teams reached for them. No matter how one feels we got the MOST value of all 4 Qbs off the board.
Again I would have went another direction with the pick but it was value and and if he succeeds great...if he don't we have ammo to get another next year. I dont really understand the fuss. If ya ain't trying to fix the Qb spot that's one thing. There is no SURE fire fixes in this Qb class and we have maybe at this point the least invested and yet the reward is very high.

I wouldn't say it's THAT big of a flaw, though. It's not like he's out doing coke and hanging with strippers. The guy was coached by the biggest hot head in college football, it's not like he was going to get the gift of maturity by a 50 year old coach who lacks any maturity.

If that's Kizer's biggest flaw, then we just destroyed the draft with this single pick. I have every faith that Kizer will mature quite nicely.

Fantastic pick. I don't normally make prediction like statements, but I think Kizer will end up being the best QB in this year's draft class.

He has the best pump fake I've seen in years. Very Ben Roth like.

He is deceptively mobile, and can make any throw.

Coaching is all he needs, which is the one variable that can change a player for the better.

Saturday morning ; calmed down from last night ( a little ) . After praising our front office for not reaching ( day one ) like many other teams did , they go back to TRUE form and reached for Kiser in the second just like they reached for Kessler in the third last draft !

I kept waiting for the Brain trust to engineer some picks and move up in the talent laden Second ; and nothing .. Watched tons of TALENT pour off the board and we did NOTHING .. So when 52 rolled around I was prepared to be amazed .. bombed ..

You take Kiser ( or any remaing QB's in the forth / fifth fine , shoot take a couple .. Taking Kesler in the third was a reach and Kisser in the second a reach .. Said it be for and will say it again .. Hue Jackson ain't no " QB WHISPER " Even if he thinks he is ..

Not happy with day two at all .. Day one was just fine !

Derek Carr was drafted and in the 2nd and started day 1.

Russel Wilson got drafted in the 3rd and started day 1.

Prescott got drafted in the 4th and started day 1*due to injury

Andy dalton got drafted in the 2nd and started day 1

so I'm just basing my opinion off the evidence I see. Cause you can't tell raiders and bengals didn't draft their guys in the 2nd and NOT expect them to be the franchise QB of that team.

There's multiple ways to skin a cat, but in today's NFL, grabbing QB's in the second round typically means you expect them to start, either day one at or SOME point.

That's why I side with dungy. If you draft a guy expecting him to be THE guy, then start him unless he's still too raw at the start of the season. Cause playing time is the best development.

On top of that, for all we know, Kizer might ALREADY be the best QB on the roster.

And if he ends up winning the QB competition after training camp and preseason, then it makes no sense to sit him.

Dude needs time no doubt.

Play Action attempts he's at 77%. That's correct 77.

I'd like to look at that site that breaks down Under pressure, when bltzed etc.

Anyone link it?

Just for curiosity, who was ranked/graded higher before the draft: Kizer or Dak? And what were their similarities/differences?

After watching some YouTube, yeah he definitely has that arm everyone speaks of. Could make any throw, especially Hue's beloved deep ball. Pretty mobile too. Perfect physical frame/measurable(s).

I really didn't know anything about him. Didn't even know he was from Toledo, ha. I hadn't watched any tape and read minimal leading up to the draft.

But, hadn't we took him I think another team would've moved up. That seemed like what every team did to get a QB besides us. Hue now has a ton of projects, but unlike Cody, this one gives him a running option QB and someone with an rocket arm.

Well, considering that all of the QBs in the draft are considered somewhat projects, I think this pick makes a TON more sense than what KC or Houston did. They moved up and traded away their future for QBs that are just as questionable as Kizer.

The Browns just let him fall right into their laps.

Obviously, we won't know until he's out there with the bullets flying but it's hard to dislike the strategy here.

Will Fuller.

ND had no NFL speed at all at WR in 2016.

Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good. Sashi Brown said.."We were surprised that he was there and available to us at 52.”

I hope there was not any discussion on whether to make the pick, once Kizer fell to us.

Can analytics predict when you are about to get lucky?

Was not a 1st round QB but then again few that were taken were. Him and Mahomes were being touted by many to have the biggest Upside as a QB prospect.

I know he had a bad season last year. Now we will see if Hue is truly a QB guru or not. If he can develop this kid we finally got our Franchise QB...in the mean time we will see how much Kessler improves this year. Will be a great situation if we can have two viable QBs for a change.

jmho...good luck guys got real football practice bye!

a big question to always ask: Can a players flaws be coached/improved?

Kessler? Very marginally
Kizer? I'd say yes

Yeah, I think that was part of what turned me off, but he is only a 21 y/o Redshirt-Sophomore. Hopefully he'll mature, and maybe dropping to pick 52 will help with that.

More concerning is his accuracy. He definitely flashes good placement at times, but he can spray it all over, too. If they can clean that up, we could have something. Not sure if that's something they can do, though.

Our QB room definitely wasn't settled, and at 52 he does have a great ceiling. We'll never find a franchise QB if we don't add guys with a chance/guys who aren't perfect to the team.

Draft Day 2 Analysis: The Browns Play It Smart

Rather than reach for a quarterback, Cleveland waited through the first round while continuing to build its roster, then took a flyer on DeShone Kizer in Round 2. It’s all going according to plan


America entered draft week ready to blast the Browns for overextending to go get a quarterback in a year with no sure thing at the position—and in the process, passing on a pass-rusher with a comic-book build and Olympic athleticism.
We’ll exit it having seen Cleveland do the opposite.

The Browns didn’t draft Mitchell Trubisky over Myles Garrett after all. They didn’t make a huge move up the board from 12 to get the North Carolina QB/local native either. They actually traded out, then traded up, augmenting the roster with the above freak, Myles Garrett, and two raw/talented prospects on Thursday.

And just when you thought that was it, the Browns made their quarterback news by catching another Ohioan’s fall on Friday. Questions about Notre Dame QB DeShone Kizer’s mental makeup and ability to deal with adversity dogged his pre-draft process and made his availability on Day 2 expected. What fewer forecast was that Kizer’s plummet would last more 20 picks.

So the Browns basically punt on this year’s quarterback class, and come away with arguably the most physically gifted guy in the bunch. If Kizer—thought to be a potential top-five pick early in the fall—works out, great. If not, they didn’t exactly blow up the treasure trove of capital they’ve built, which seemed to be the idea as Cleveland adjusted to making a QB its fourth pick, rather than its first or second.

“That’s probably fair,” Browns EVP of football operations Sashi Brown said, driving home around midnight. “There are a couple things there. One, our roster, in our view, demands some attention. So we don’t really have the luxury to bundle a whole bunch of picks to go get a guy, or pass up on the opportunity to acquire a bunch of picks. The second thing, we don’t necessarily want to force it.”
There’s the key.

Just look at what Brown and coach Hue Jackson have done at the quarterback position in two offseasons. They paid Robert Griffin ($7.5 million) and Josh McCown ($4.4 million) last year, and drafted Cody Kessler in the third round. This time around they have Kessler back with waiver-wire addition Kevin Hogan; salary dumpee Brock Osweiler (they got a 2018 second-rounder to carry his $16 million); and now Kizer.

They haven’t swung for the fences yet. Maybe Kizer or even Kessler develops into the future. Maybe not. The important thing, as they see it, is using resources to get the roster to a place where, if they do take that big cut, the environment that quarterback is walking into isn’t the impossible one that McCown, Griffin and Kessler operated under during the 2016 season.

“That’s absolutely right,” Brown said. “In terms of sequencing, you want to make sure that when you have a quarterback, particularly a young quarterback, he’s got the best opportunity to be successful as possible. To put it frankly, we didn’t think we were in that position coming out of 2015. We’re getting closer to that. We’ve got a ways to go.
“So we had the opportunity to add DeShone here. And we still need to do some work on our roster, and to improve the culture of our building. He’ll be a piece of that.”

How big a piece remains to be seen. Based the reporting I’ve done on the kid, it’s clear Kizer has some growing up to do, and it’s easy to see where Jackson’s tough-love style could do him a lot of good in that regard. His recent comments to USA Today, in which he elicited the names of Cam Newton and Tom Brady, didn’t help quell concerns over his maturity, nor did it level off the idea that he’s had a big head.

The flip side is how Brown describes his new rookie—“a big, talented, athletic, bright, competitive and motivated quarterback who’s very young. I think his best football’s ahead of him.”

What becomes of him now is really anyone’s guess. Kizer went 4-8 last year at Notre Dame, and didn’t handle adversity well in the process. All of that explains why now an NFL team is taking a flyer on him rather than selling the farm for him. Kizer will get his shot to compete. The Browns get to keep their options open.

“We do want to be mindful of just not forcing a guy because we don’t have a [long-term] quarterback,” Brown said. “So the notion, if you don’t have a quarterback, you have to take one high, we don’t want to get into that. And this is actually a pretty high pick for one. We just had the luxury to be able to add some other talent along with DeShone, and that’s a nice combination for us.”

It wasn’t the outcome Kizer was looking for. And in an ideal world, the Browns probably would have gotten both Garrett and Trubisky.

Now? Kizer gets a year to establish himself as part of the future, and Brown and Jackson can give him that shot without costing themselves another one next offseason, when Jimmy Garoppolo, Kirk Cousins and an expected bumper crop in the draft are there for everyone.

https://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/29/nfl-draft-cleveland-browns-deshone-kizer

Hate the Kiser pick. What was the matter with Webb? At least he likes football, is more accurate, but is pretty much the same guy as Kiser.

I think the Browns just blew another one. They did pick Garrett, but they probably wanted to trade down and take a undrafted FA pass rusher.

Some of that, but I think more just all around talent on the team dropped.

Defense was a mess this season. OL lost guys. Had some injuries to his receivers.

...Brian Yelly was the coach...

Just being away from Brian Kelly might make him better...

I agree with all that you said .

Kizer did hot have as good of a season, but ND jst was not as good of a team, Doesnt change the talent that he has. Put Kizer on the team that D Watson had and Kizer is just as good.

Great pick. I believe the Browns have their Franchise QB. I believe he will be the best QB coming out of this draft.

Ask Diam about Kiser !

At the beginning of 2016 I wanted Kizer top of the draft, felt he was the better prospect than Watson by far. His 2016 year didn't help his cause at all, and he fell considerably out of favor. There are several things that can be pointed to: his coach, his (lack of) supporting cast, and his decision making. But, he does have the measurables and the skill set. He's smart and athletic, and can read defenses.

There will be times when we (the fan base) will be banging our heads at his decisions/throws, and other times when we'll get glimpses of greatness. He has good feet and moves well in the pocket. He's one of those guys who can elude a rush with a slight side-step, or take off running, or roll out and hit a guy on the run. When he's on, he can nail tight windows, if he brain-farts he'll throw a pick six. Bottom line, he'll need a strong supporting cast, good coaching, and time to succeed.

Right now, we need to figure out the situation at RT, our running game could use an upgrade, and we need a big #1 receiver to step up. If Gordon were to somehow make it back on the field and return to form, that would be huge, but we can't count on it, so we have to hope Britt comes in with the right attitude. He put up a 1000 yards last year, he'll need that and more this year. Coleman must step it up and become 1st round worthy. Payton, Louis & Higgins all have size and potential, we just haven't seen the production. Njoku will help, Crow and Duke could suffice if Crow continues to develop and play with attitude, and the additions on the interior of the 0-line will also help.

All in all, 2017 could stack up to be a decent beginning to the transition on offense. We undoubtedly (IMHO) won't be as terrible as everyone expects, nor as good as everyone hopes, but we may end up being pleasantly surprised. In a perfect world, Kizer comes in and takes the starting job away from Kessler. But that may not happen, so we'll need to be patient. However, I have no doubt he'll make his way onto the field at some point this year. Under the right set of circumstances, he could be our Dak Prescott. After taking time to absorb the fact that he's now our potential franchise guy, I'm good with the pick. I think we took him at just the right spot in the draft, and I think he really wants to succeed here.

Welcome to Cleveland, DeShone. You have the chance to do what no one has done for over fifty years, bring us a Championship. But hey, no pressure.

I agree. He definitely has some maturing to do. But he's not in the same class as JFF and it's one aspect that needs to be improved - along with the mechanics/footwork. None of the QB's int he draft were without question marks. . . Kizer has a ton of talent. If he's coachable he could be the guy. I think Hue can work with him and the rest is ultimately up to Kizer himself. Going mid second round may have helped knock his ego down a peg or two and make him realize he ain't all that just yet.

As for those claiming Kizer is going to be a coach killer and Hue's ego is in the way of making smart football decisions .... I disagree 100%. I feel pretty sure that Hue's guy was Mahomes. This isn't like Hue passed on the other QB's taken because he saw Kizer and coveted him ... Kizer simply represented good value at #52.

Based on some of the things Hue achieved with Dalton and then Kessler, I think he is more than capable of mentoring Kizer provided Kizer wants to apply himself. . . We've talked about Kessler's impressive statistics and how they are deceptive and don't reflect his weak arm or reluctance to throw deep BUT have we given Hue the credit for some of that?

I like Kessler a little more than most. I hope he starts the season and gets a chance to overcome his issues of not throwing deep - and hoping his arm is a little stronger this year than last. If Kizer can sit for a while - a wwhole season even - and the Browns win 5+ games. I think it would be a great start for Kizer.

Okay, after taking the night to think about it, I am now okay with the Kizer pick.

I really wanted Obi and that tainted my viewpoint.

Looking back, if you asked me before the draft if I would be happy with Kizer at 52, I would have said yes. There is good value there and he has a chance to become the starter.

We have missed out on some really good FS's in the draft and we desperately need one, but that isn't Kizer's fault. If he doesn't pan out, we aren't out much and if he does pan out, we got a steal.

There are many factors to consider about this pick.

The Browns did not reach for Kizer; he fell to the Browns.

He was not their first choice. He was pick 52.

At pick 52 there is not much risk. All quarterbacks choices have some risk. Even pick 2 by the Bears.

The first time I watched a few game tapes my first impression was he should return to school.

At the same time I saw a prototype quarterback. Size, athleticism, arm strength. I also saw a guy who looked uncomfortable and inconsistent at the position.

Something is there with Kizer that teams did not like. He was passed over by a bunch of teams with aging quarterbacks looking to groom a replacement. The Steelers, The Cardinals, The Saints, Chargers. In addition the teams that reached for quarterbacks did not reach for Kizer.

Early on in the draft process Kizer was the top guy for analysts Mayock and Bucky Brooks. As the process went on he dropped. Why?

In a word maturity. Both on the field and as a person. Which affects his ability as a leader.

He was benched. His play was inconsistent. His coach called him out.

During the draft interview process something gave Kizer away. Arrogance? Sense of entitlement? Something.

Was Kizer a bad pick? No. Not at 52.

The Browns tried for Garoppolo. Not their fault if the Patriots would not trade him. Second they tried to move up to get Trubisky but not up to number two. I don't blame them. I would not have traded up from 12 for him. Reid jumped on Mahomes. Most likely the Browns would have taken him at 12. A reach, but maybe worth a gamble based upon his upside.

So they took the players that were highest on their Board. I'm good with that.

At 52 Kizer was there.

Kizer has the potential. It is up to him to reach that potential. If he does not; they move on. I doubt the Browns look at him and say:
"position solved".

Most likely they will be looking next year at Garoppolo, Cousins, and the guys in the draft.

I think I have figured it out. Hue will develop a QB by any means necessary.

Kessler and Kizer are on a plane to Shanghai China right now.

Surgeons in Shanghai will put Kessler's head on Kizer's body to create a new QB called Kizler.

Whatever it takes.

I agree that Notre Dame was a mess led by Kelly, but strictly from a QB evaluation Kizer held the ball a lot longer in 2016, which indicated to me that guys were getting open later. Defense's could afford to be more aggressive when they knew there was no home run threat. With Fuller's speed, secondary's had to play looser knowing that Kizer/Fuller was so dangerous a threat. This opened up intermediate routs, as well as the times when Fuller beat them deep anyway.

Maturity will come. Wish McCown was still here.

McMahon of ESPN talked earlier and said during our 1st workout with Kizer, Hue saw something in his footwork and gave him pointers to work on.

2nd visit was night and day. He perfected the pointers Hue gave him.

That's good news folks. Mechanics is the #1 cause of inconsistent accuracy. He needs reps, reps and more reps. He's already got an excellent arm. Perfect these mechanics and he'll spin it even better.

Hoping he latches on quick cause if he GETS it, he's got perfect size for a QB. Well worth the 52 pick with no trade up to get him.

hey, didn't mean to ignore this. Been tough to post on a good cadence since third son was born in March.

Actually I think it's pretty good on intermediate throws with the occasional head scratcher(sailing that ball s Mich st and the pass to the right sideline vs Texas) . There were a lot of throwaways in those clips when guys were covered. But there were a lot of dimes too. Nailed some real nice digs. That Texas game end of the third quarter when he put the ball in the end zone between the safeties and over the LB where the safety should have been called for targeting was special. A lot of pretty good throws. I'm optimistic about his chances.

Here are some good video clips and stories from Toledo, including an interview with Kizer from draft night. One reporter says that Hue was in contact with Kizer throughout the draft.

http://www.13abc.com/content/sports/Browns-take-Central-grad-Kizer-in-second-round--420790653.html

No way, last thing kizer's body needs is Kessler's timidity.

Watched the QB camp... I think I like the kid.

But then, that's what the show is designed to do.

Dude's got major upside. If he can mature and grow with the team he might be the guy they want.

LOL, that's too funny

Maybe he should change his name to Bernie Kizar ...

Or not.

Speaking about the quarterbacks in next years draft.

Sam Darnold is the real deal. Best looking prospect since Luck.

I hope Kizer shows something but I do not think his selection means that the Browns are no longer in the market.

Like crs15 said, Carolina selected Clausen then proceeded to acquire Newton. Maybe he shows us something though. There's no concern over the physical attributes.

His competition is Kessler, Hogan and Brock. Pretty weak. It may just be worth it to throw him to the dogs game one and let him take his beatings and gather experience/get himself on tape so that he/the coaches can correct him. Maybe not the most ideal of situations, and had we Josh McCown I might not even had suggested it... but it is what it is.

The Redskins took RG3 and Cousins in the same draft. Kizer doesn't mean we are done looking unless he studs out really fast.

Likely a total bust. He has the tools to be a top 5 QB but he has to be rebuilt from the shoulders up and from the knees down. Hue has his reclamation project.

Now I had been hearing he blew us away in the interviews and when they put him infront of the chalk board but he is damaged goods thanks to a coach that messed with him. When Mahomes went off the board I thought we might take him at 33. The coaching staff was very very high on Kizer.

Wonder what week of the season the " Fold for Darnold " Chants begin ?

I have a feeling that Darnold stays at USC next year

Kizer's a Toledo boy.

I like that.

j/c

Anyone have a handle on Kizer's personality? I read something about him loving the limelight more than loving football? Is he a diva? That to me is the single most worrying thing. The rest is coaching. If Kelly destroyed his confidence I think Hue has the personality to rest that. But if he's not 100% committed, then it won't really matter.

He's immature. He's used to being the star/diva. I'm hoping last year humbled him, which it should have. I do think getting away from ND and Brian Kelly will be a good thing

Taking a guy like him in the second is not a bad idea IMO. His accuracy bothers me, but footwork has a lot to do with that. He needs to get with Cody and visit House till the offseason begins.

People mad about this baffles me. We need a QB. This was not reaching, and we still have the draft capitol to get anyone we want next year. Good move.

I listened to his phone interview and he talked about how hue had already helped him a great deal with his footwork to make it more consistent with a different mental approach basically.

He has supposedly met with the Browns 5 times. I would say he was very high on the Browns list.. higher than anyone will admit to.

Aditi Kinkhabwala‏Verified account @AKinkhabwala 14s14 seconds ago
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DeShone Kizer will almost assuredly go work w/ Adam Dedeaux & Tom House - who've trained Brady, Brees and Ryan, among others - before camp

Someone said above - he needs to watch Kessler. Regardless of what you feel about Cody's arm, he is accurate. I'm no QB person at all, but I've always believed in showing a good example of doing something to someone is far more powerful than telling.

I really hope this works out for us. Looking forward to seeing us kick Viking butt in London

This struck me as an echo of Kessler. That didn't wow me. This is lame until it isn't. Hope it works out. Welcome aboard. MKC is dying to meet you, I suspect.

I have never forgiven the Browns for Brady Quinn.

Not a huge fan of this pick. His throws remind me a lot of Weeden. The guy can launch the ball, but he misses what would be NFL windows, hangs on to the ball awfully long, and goes for stationary targets. Makes me think he'd struggle heavily at breaking down coverages.

Don't get me wrong though. I hope I'm dead wrong.

I really liked what Jeremiah had to say after the draft about the Browns drafting Kizer at #52.

"You might have found your future guy, but you're not out of the QB market next year. If you find one you like, you're not married to one, you're dating one."

Thanks for answering.

I always respect your opinion, but his accuracy was a huge red flag for me. I do not like inaccurate qbs. There was a lot of hype about him earlier this year and I started watching his games. I couldn't believe how many easy throws he missed. That completely turned me off.

Well he was wrong about Brady Quinn lets hope he is equally wrong about Kizer

Guys lets see what he becomes two years from now...I think that is when he will be ready to take over the position and it won't surprise me if Kessler just keeps on improving. I think we picked up two keepers so far in two years. But its a roll of the dice...even if we move up to #2 and took a QB. I do like the fact we didn't reach or got desperate for a QB.

Let us see how we develop the kid...a lot of upside. btw how was his Accuracy in 2015?

Spotty, but they hit more big plays which covered it up some. Didn't need to be that accurate when Fuller was blowing by people.

Well point blank if you are not accurate in the NFL...you are done for. Lets hope that a couple tweaks of his technique an make the difference. Worked on a QB today...getting his shoulders parallel with the Sidelines...worked wonders with his accuracy.

Hue has him for a year. Learning for Kizer, time to evaluate for the browns.

If we don't fall in love then we should have a good opportunity in next years draft for an upgrade.

I think this is it in a nutshell. No reach, drafted about where he should have been. If he fails to develop, we are sitting pretty next year to grab whoever we want.

I keep thinking back to Carolina taking Clausen in the first round out of Notre Dame...then Cam the next year when they realized what they drafted.
I have higher hopes for Kiser.

Might as well start him.

Yeah. I said it.

Do realize just how much talent was still on the board when we picked him , a project ! I know he has the mind of Tom Brady and the physic of Cam Newton !

Do realize that the Browns QB situation is unresolved, and the team will be drafting at the top every year until the QB is identified.

Why? Do you have that little faith in Kessler? What kind of message does that send this team?

Do you really think Kizer is even mature enough at this point to be handed a job?


If Kizer shows the ability to A) play QB better than Kessler and B) lead this offense better than Kessler, fine, lets start him.


But he's a second round pick, and he shouldn't be handed anything. Including the starting job over a guy who played well on a terrible offense, who was a third round pick last year. That's not right. Makes it seem like positions don't have to be earned, and t makes it look like we're scrapping the season.

That's just an awful idea. We haven't even reached camp, and it makes it seem like we are giving up

I don't think Kessler played all that "well", and I think he has limitations that cannot be overcome. Regardless of how much better the team around him gets.

If we (The Browns) had any faith in Kessler, we wouldn't have spent a 2nd rounder on a QB. (IMO)

If we don't start Kizer, then I'd go with Broswiler (blah)

At least I know he can throw the ball down the field.

I agree with all of this.

A byproduct of Kessler not going down field is how it hurts the run game. Once teams started loading the box to force Kessler to beat them over the top (which he seemed reluctant to try - even his coach said this) then our run game, which looked promising to start the year, disappeared.

Unless you think Hue is going to change our entire offense to a pure West Coast dink and dunk then Kessler has problems. He's a good kid that can't throw downfield and Coach wants to throw downfield. I don't see much chance of Kessler beating out Brock unless he just doesn't get our offense....

Lets see how fast Kizer gets it. This may be a moot point anyway. The way we go through QB's Kizer could be 4th string and start by week 5 lol

We could cut Brock. We could sign or trade for a veteran. There are a lot of scenarios that could play out before camp starts.

I think the Browns are doing what Seattle did. Signing, trading for and drafting QBs until they find one they like. Seattle brought in a lot of QB's before they stumbled upon Wilson. Throw numbers at the position and hope one of them grabs the job....

Kizer didn't have a very good year in 2016 and his standing dropped because of it. He had 2 years of college eligibility but he chose to enter the draft regardless. I'm sure he did that because he didn't get along with Kelly (widely rumored.) He probably should have returned to ND for at least another year to try to overcome his problems and re-establish his ranking. That he didn't suggests a level of immaturity. He needs to improve his game, and if he can't do it in college, why does anyone think he can do it playing in the NFL.

He needs to sit and learn. Starting him this year will lock in his bad habits just like starting Bortles right away did, and he'll never have the chance to live up to the potential he showed in 2015 and early 2016. The biggest mistake the Browns made in the off-season was to release McGown. He would have been perfect to help mold Kizer.

I am not a ND fan, but I think many people thought that Brandon Wimbush would beat out Kizer for the starting qb position next year, had Kizer stuck around.

I think Kizer and brock's size and arms are gonna make Cody look so weak he may get pushed into a trade to new Orleans before the season even begins.

There is a good chance Kizer does start day 1 if Hue can clean up his footwork and provide him with the power run game he promised.

So that tells me that rather than rise to the competition, he entered the draft as an out. More signs of immaturity.

Well..............I wouldn't go that far. LOL

And again, I am not a ND fan and I could be wrong about what I said. I just remember hearing that somewhere and I have no link. So, I could be totally wrong.

Need to hear from Diam about that one.

Two words.

Brian Kelly.

Two more words.

Is insane.

I kind of get the mentor angle, but I think it's a bit overrated. I think rookies develop habits more from imitating player mentors, but rely on coaches more for knowledge/coaching. From all reports, Cody is a "gym rat" who puts in a lot of work. I think he can be that long-term backup, mentor and spot starter (floor). Hopefully more. He seems to have good "habits" for Kizer to imitate (maybe not with regards to the deep ball, but I'm referring to preparation).

The Kizer/Kelly relationship is/was toxic. You can hear it from both guys, they hate each other.

I think it was best for Kizer to come out. Kizer is not going to develop under Kelly any more than he already has because Kelly is a nimrod whose hot head gets him in trouble.

Wonder what Everett golson thinks of Kelly.

I think it's clear that he's our best QB.

A mix of Tom Brady and Cam Newton

He could be a mix of Peter Brady and a Fig Newton and he'd be better than Kessler and Osweiler.

Marcia disagrees.....

My guess is there are some other fans saying the same..

ie KC Chiefs trading up big time to get Mahomes.

All of the QB's this year are projects.

j/c...

1. Kessler can throw the deep pass much better than most give him credit. Actually its one of the easiest passes for a QB to throw. He has velocity to make the deep out which is the key throw for NFL QBs.

2. Kizer has nothing to do with our Assessment of Kessler.
He was a talent that we had evaluated way ahead of the #52 slot so he is with our team now and to start him Next season day one is a mistake. See the improvement Kessler has from the little I have seen this year he seems more CONFIDENT.

3. We will not be picking in the top 10 next year unless the Texans fall flat on their faces due to no NFL ready QB on their roster.

4. So far love our year 1 and 2 investments. Next year the final as our Dynasty build up we have 5...FIVE Impact picks to add to our roster.

5. I have no clue where Brock stands on our team and on our roster. The odds of our luck and fortune is pretty good to start turning in our direction...so who knows what we get out of our QB situation.

Love, Love this team.
jmho

2015 63% Over 8ypa. 21 & 10. Solid for a 1st year starter.
2016 58.7% Over 8ypa. 26 & 9. Drop in Comp % disappointed.

He lost ALOT offensively in 16. No excuse though.

Looking at Grudens meeting with him shows some excellent throws. Impressive throws.

I'm not crazy about this kid, but the talent is obvious. He's got SUPERB SIZE for the NFL and a top notch arm for AFC North late season wind and weather.

He should have stayed another year but it's widely reported the issues between he and Kelly. I've always thought Kelly was an over-zealous A-Hole. Hated the hiring by ND. They haven't had even a decent HC since Holtz and it shows.

Getting out of there might be the best thing for him.

I'm intrigued with Kizer and what might transpire here.

Loss of Accuracy is directly related to a breakdown of Mechanics. What I find interesting is the fact that when Hue met with him he saw something wrong and gave him a couple pointers to work on. Upon meeting with him a 2nd time, it was like night and day improvement.

No proof, but it's highly likely that those pointers were mechanical related. And it's highly likely the 2nd time we met that we saw an improvement in Accuracy. That's HUGE.

Mourg. There is NO WAY in hell Kizer is starting Game One. Pittsburgh would eat this dude up. He won't be ready.

Now, if he matures a bit and grasps the playbook, I could easily see us rolling him out by mid season.

If we can end up with our Long Term #1 & #2 in back to back years with Kizer and Kessler, that will LEAP us forward quickly simply because we have 2 #1's and 3 #2's next year and we won't need to use ANY of them on a QB.

Diam? Can you shed any extra light on the issues between Kizer and Kelly?

If only got a sec right now ... literally ... *L* ..

Kelly destroyed his confidence last year ... DE3STROYED IT .. u could see Kizer melting down more each and every week ...

I'll give the ENTIRE STORY tonight or tommorow when i have some time ... it will be a good read and u will learn a lot more about how it unfolded as the pundits only want to talk about where we are and not how we got here ...

VERS in regards to Wimbush, u may have read it in a few other places but for the most part its to much trouble for the bozos (hope u don't mind if i borrowed that line tabber .. ) ... to take the time to mention that fact .. i said it on here at least 5 or 6 times ... so i know u read it here unless u don't read me anymore .. ...

Kizer would have been benched last year if Zaire could have hit the broad side of a barn last year ... thats another part of the story most don't mention ..

Just out of curiosity Diam

How was NDs running game last season?
How about in 15?

J/c

I wonder if there would be any interest in looking at Kaiser's games from Notre Dame in the same way that we did breakdowns of Watson and trubisky?

If so what game to start with I have charted a couple of his games already and seem to find the notes but I'm happy to start fresh

Go 4 it. Now that he's a Brown there's much more interest.

I say rotate a 15 game then a 16 game and so on.

I would like that but can I offer a suggestion. When you did it before, you were very thorough. Too thorough. You listed so many plays per tape it became too daunting a task to review.

I would like to suggest that for each game you review that you list 2-3 good plays and 2-3 bad plays. I would look at that. When you list 20 plays I just move on because I don't have time to look at that much film.

Also, I think it would be better if you broke it down into Here are 3 good plays then here are 3 bad plays rather than listing them temporally and intermingling the good and the bad.

Just my 2 cents. take it for what it's worth.

I don't like Kizer as a person. I have stated that previously. He does have talent though and very well could end up being our answer at QB for a long time to come unless cody or brock beat him to the punch. It will be interesting to see how the QB position plays out this year.

I will root for their success like I would for any Browns player.

I still don't know about this pick. If he can cash in on what he's saying to the media about knowing there's work that needs to be put in, he's got the arm, body and etc.

6'4, 234lbs. Whew-weee...

Without knowing too much about Kizer, do you not like his arrogance? entitlement? media comments? what do you find worrisome in terms of his personality?

Can he win? You're not dating him so whether he has the personality of a tree stump or arrogant as hell who cares? Just win, it's time.

or is he??

He has that I am God complex that Brady had. He is very arrogant too when he is not in front of the camera. Still he is pretty smart and knows what to say ON Camera.

I am hoping Hue can fix his attitude problems and that Cody or Brock can start for a few years till Kizer gets humbled a bit. It will do Kizer a world of good. I think we took him at a decent spot.

Where have you seen these "off camera" problems with attitude? Can you provide links? I have watched a lot about him since we drafted him and everything I've seen he comes across confident, maybe a little cocky. I'm fine with that. I hope he doesn't need to be humbled - that means we've found our QB. You have to have a certain amount of arrogance to play at an NFL level IMO. Players like Cam Newton and Jameis Winston come to mind as two recent QB's that were very arrogant and lived up to it. I have no problem with arrogance if you can back it up - don't be an a-hole, which I've not once seen Kizer be in anything I've watched.

I just keep hearing that he as an arrogant jerk and I've just not seen it in anything I've viewed.

I think its the dumb ass jerk syndrome..people who know nothing trying to show they do... on the Hue Jackson and Sashi Brown interview...they say he is very mature...

I regret making that post.
Was having a few beverages and wanted us to get more secondary help. But after thinking about it, it's worth a shot because we need a franchise QB. And Kizer at least has size and arm strength, and appears to be very intelligent.

Lol. Never ever ever condemn any player due to an association with an individual school. EVER.

To do so is a mistake. Always evaluate the individual.

I'm stumped here too.

Razor?

Where is this stuff? I'm looking HARD at this Kat now that he's one of US and I'm not seeing anything that says he's a [censored].

Even if he is, it can quickly be slapped out of him.

I'm watching EVERYTHING now. So far I see a respectful young man who reeks confidence.

I'm liking his touch both on the short stuff and the back shoulder end zone drops.

Where's Kosar? Bernie. Get ahold of this kid. Work with him on the Cerebral part.

Cool. I don't wanna be a Weenie here, but please can you do us all a favor? Or maybe just ME?

I'm gathering you're an Irish fan. You seem like you're going to give some insight to the PROGRAM and not just Kizer.

I'm intrigued with this kids potential. I LOVE his size and arm. I'm watching EVERYTHING out there on him more intently now.

What are your Credentials to be able to speak so in depth on the Notre Dame program? I'll listen. Just don't want a BS artist talking to me about something so important.

I've met him in person at Linebackers several times now. Players often come in there because the owner takes care of them and makes sure they don't get in trouble. He is not the devil by any means but he is definately a ME ME ME person.

He definately has talent so I hope Hue can help him get over that because players don't like playing for a QB like that in my opinion and it tears team chemistry apart.

Keep in mind I warned you guys about this stuff with BQ well before the draft and his actions proved I was more than right and wasn't making things up. Hopefully Kizer gets humbled and changes for the better. Now that he is a Brown I am rooting for him to improve himself and succeed.

Great post! Sorry I missed it the other night....

Best part of that video in my mind is at around the 11:48 mark. Gruden had just asked him why was ND 4-8. He says, it's easy to make excuses but frankly, I just make enough plays.

j/c:

1. Razor is not a BS artist. He met the guy. He said that a long, long time ago.

2. Kizer was the QB who was hot early on in the national media. Folks around here claimed they watched him and ragged on him. Now, the Browns draft him and he is all of a sudden..........the second coming.

Please.....

Hey Razor hope all is well





Hue said he gave Kizer some advice...didn't speculate. But did say a few weeks later he improved and worked hard on what Hue told him. and they were happy with how he listened and improved on Hues advice.

I'm going to stop listening to the say so'ers and watch what happens in camp.

Your my pal.....love ya.

you better call me soon ..
I love ya too...you drive 9 plus hours for years to see a Browns game... You are What Browns fans call special !!!!!

Link?

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...2nd-pick#UNREAD

He's not the second coming; the kid needs a lot of work. I just hope everyone has the patience for it.

I agree. I don't think anybody is anointing him, but he has a lot of upside if he's coached up.....

A different perspective. Who was the QB I was afraid would Pittsburgh would take at the end of the first round and turn into a perennial pro bowler???? Kizer. Was I alone?

And he sure as beck looks like an NFL QB more than colt, JFF and Charlie flipping true ever did. Jmo

The problem for him is if the team is horrible again and in line to draft or trade up to draft either Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen Kizer will not get a 2nd year to establish himself as a franchise qb.

And then he becomes an asset.

Not trying to be a dick, but can you guys show me where you pimped Kizer before the draft? Because, I sure as hell don't remember too many people doing so. In fact, I seem to remember more negative commentary than anything else.

One more thing.............I remember taking Kizer in one of those mock drafts. Might have been at 52 or 65. I got laughed at for that one.

Look, the guy has some tools............but, will there ever be a time when y'all are honest?

Thanks vers I appreciate the kind words.

I had Kizer rated mid to late 2nd round possibly third. IMHO we took him right where he should have been drafted so I am pretty happy with the pick. If Cody does well then Kizer can take time to learn while Kizer shows enough for us to release Brock and save cap space. Then we go ahead and draft another project QB or bring in a bonafide franchise QB. I really want to see how well cody progresses as a QB this season unless he just gets demolished.

Thanks mate I been doing OK lately. Getting ready to take my 8 year old and 10 year old daughters camping to teach them survival skills and work on some light aikido training. Their mommy doesn't want me to push them too hard so I gotta take it easy on em for now but I will make darn sure they can use a bow drill this summer to start a fire.

I think Hue is the perfect coach for Kizer so I am looking forward to see how Kizer does as a Brown.

You've got a strange way of looking at things. Value in the second ? And needs coaching. And you think people are pimping him??? Those don't equate.

Mid season people wanted him to come out and take him high in the first and Diam repeatedly said it would not happen coz he wasn't ready.... That was before it got super caustic with Kelly. That was way b4 draft time.

I guess sticking to my post. You must think disagree and think Frye Manziel and Colt looked more like an NFL QB than Kizer. And you obviously didn't think Pit would take him and develop him. . . Fair enough I guess.

In response to your other take that a huge bunch of homers are now anointing him... You'll have to cut and paste the quotes coz I haven't seen it.

Here is my first ever public report on Kizer:

Strengths:

--Great size at 6'4, 230+ lbs.

--Very good arm strenth

--Doesn't cower in the pocket

--Seems to be a team guy

--Was asked to make pre-snap reads and reportedly did a good job in this area


Concerns:

--Inconsistent accuracy. Can thread the needle and throws a nice deep ball, but man, he misses some throws by miles. I mean............they aren't even close.

--Doesn't read coverages. Throws to where his pre-snap read dictates. Ouch!

--Related to above..........stares down receivers. That will lead to picks.

--Base is a bit too wide. Needs to get front foot closer to front shoulder. No, I don't have a link. Just my own observation.

--According to reports, his confidence seemed to falter at ND. Yeah, Kelly is a jerk........but what about if he throws a bunch of picks and he gets ripped by fans and the media while in the NFL? How will he handle that? Kelly's meanness doesn't even compare to how bad NFL QBs get scrutinized.

Summary: I think he has a shot because of raw physical attributes. However, I question his mental make-up, his mechanics, and ability to read coverages post-snap.

I will not be surprised if he makes it as a decent qb and I will not be surprised if he teases the folks for awhile but ultimately busts!

Thank you. I don't believe I am permitted to respond beyond that.

I'm on a tablet and it ain't easy typing now. I'll explain what I meant tomorrow. Bottom line, like u I wassnt trying g to be a dick .... I don't see people pimping Kizer.

Perhaps we have a different definition of how I am using the word "pimping?"

Can you show me where you advocated us drafting Kizer?

Going into the 2016 season, the three most talked about QB' that could come out were:


Watson
Kizer
Kaaya

Watson had a good but not great season, and the int's became an issue.
ND did not have the same team as 2015 and Kizer did not match his 2015 form.
Kaaya, I believe hurt his foot and struggled as well.

Trubisky and Webb were not on the radar as they were replacements.

We are talking about pick 52. the only question is that is Kizer false hope for next year with Darnold, Rosen and others potentially coming out.

I am willing to let this play out. There is nothing to lose, other than the selection, QB selection is a hit or miss proposition, and until you find one, you do not have one. And you can't win successfully without one. So he was worth the pick.

So, Kizer of the three looks most like a prototypical NFL QB, and I can accept that. Does he need work, yes, but does he represent a higher skill set than Kessler, absolutely. But for NFL QB's success is a function of skillset and intelligence, so while the skill are there, the mental aspect is in question, with Kessler, its the exact opposite.

Kizer went to Notre Dame, so he is no slouch intellectually. I'm sure he can pick up and process anything that is required of him. I did not want Kizer with a first round pick, nor did I want any of the top 4 QBs with a first round pick, but stated if any of the 4 fell to the 2nd pick of the 2nd round ( # 52 ) I would be ok with it. I did not specify Kizer, but he was one of the 4 QBs in question. I thought, and still do, that it would be a tremendous stretch for the Browns to take any of the 4 QBs with picks 1 - 33, because there were so many areas of need that picking a QB that high would be setting them up to fail.

I am good with Kiser now. I was just worried we were going to pass on good players to nab him in the first round. I think he has a chance to be pretty darn good, especially now that he doesn't have 1st round status looming over his head.

I did mention in the Kizer thread pre-draft that I wouldn't take Kizer in the first round but would be okay taking him in the second round. It's right there because someone brought that thread to the top of the page and said 'what did we say about Kizer pre-draft'. . . I did't mention #33 - but that was my expectation at the time.

Personally I don't think advocating taking someone in the 2nd round (or beyond) is pimping a guy. And personally I don't think you have to pimp/talk about every player you'd like your team to draft before the draft to make it true that you like a pick. . . . . I bet there wasn't a lot of Redskins fans pimping Allen before the draft. No-one thought he'd be an option. Not many Colts fans could have pimped Hooker before the draft because he wasn't expected to be there at 15. It wouldn't then mean that those same fans were not happy with those selections.

I agree that being devoid of that first round savior label is potentially a big factor, especially in Cleveland.

That's not true at all.

Once someone puts up their first Browns mock draft 4 months ago, anyone not on it is someone you obviously don't want on the team...

How dare you think that you could actually be able to wait and see what happens, make a judgement afterwords, and then have a discussion about it going forward.

No sir. Not today.

I've been watching some 2015 and 2016 Notre Dame games over the past couple days trying to get a better feel for what Kiser brings. I watched him some in real time over the past couple seasons too but wanted to go back and take a look again. I've seen 3 games now...I'm still trying to sell myself on whether or not he's got what takes to be a 'franchise' QB.
I will say this, I'm just now finishing up watching ND v USC 2015, Kessler v Kiser... Kessler was the better QB that day. Period. USC lost, and Kessler threw 2ints late. One was a great throw in coverage that glanced off the WRs hands. Great play by the DB. I can't give Kessler that one. The other was a bad throw. In general Kessler was so much more accurate and decisive...Kiser was so much more athletic. I'm not sure how good or bad this is for us.
Just an observation.

If anything.

Just don't ever play him.

And then trade him for 3 1sts in a couple years.

And get him to change his name to Garappolo.

Means we still don't have our QB.

Diam? Hopefully you're writing a book.

Let's hear it. Anticipating your take on this Kelly-Kizer thing.

He's spell-checking his reply

Adding all his periods........

*LOL* ,,,,,, spell check broke and i lost the period button ,,,,, I'll just use commas instead ,,,,, the spell check thing could be a deal breaker ,,,,,

Been super busy ... i'll get it up by 11:59 PM tomorrow night ...

[quote=DiamDawg]

Been super busy ... i'll get it up by 11:59 PM tomorrow night ...

[/quote


That's what I told my wife

On a purely optimistic approach, Kizer could have had the same fate a University of Pittsburg QB had back in the 80's. A great career but a vary suspect senior year. Cost him a high first round pick to the end of the first round. Hope we might have found our Marino!

He does not have as quick of a release as Dan, but shows some great qualities. Got my fingers crossed.

I'd say he's more of a QB that played collegiately at Miami and ended up in Pittsburgh.

His numbers in year two at ND line up fairly well with Roethlisberger's 2nd season at Miami (of Ohio). Especially if you throw out the hurricane game vs. NC State.

Ben 22 TDs, 11 INTS 63.3 Completion Percentage Link
Kizer 26 TDS, 9 INTs 58.7 Completion Percentage (61.6 w/o hurricane game-may be some rounding error) Link

He'd obviously have some growing to do, but that could be his potential.

Kizer never even crossed my mind for Cleveland. Not sure why Lol.

I'm massively intrigued with this dude now that he's here.

I'm loving the news that Hue gave him some pointers and the next time he saw him he'd obviously been working on those pointers. That's indicative of a Coachable player.

The single most beneficial thing that can happen to us is Kizer grasps the Offense and continues to work those Mechanics, improving his accuracy to a point to where we don't HAVE TO look QB in next year's draft.

It would be HUGE if we can use all 5 high picks next year on players NOT playing QB. That would be GOLD.

I love Kizers SIZE. Proto-Type. And 77% Accuracy on Play Action is a solid base.

For me, I never thought he would be there at 52. I wanted Garrett, either Hooker or Marcus Williams at FS, and a third impact guy (a defender or OJ Howard) with our top 3 picks. I assumed Kizer, Watson, Trubisky were not even options, so I didn't look into them too much. After we drafted Kizer, I watched his draftbreakdowns that I posted on here and was really impressed and hopeful.

I hope you're right, steve.

It's so daggone hard to evaluate college qbs anymore. I am less confident in my ability to evaluate those guys than any other collegiate position.

Lol... you, me, and everyone else. I'm not certain he'll succeed, but I think he's got a pretty good shot. That's better than most and worth the shot here I think.

I don't think you can really evaluate a QB. Most of it is between the ears and in the heart.


You can eliminate some players, but even then? Not all that many years ago people couldn't decide between Peyton Manning or Ryan Leif, and that was before the spread O. Last year we had Dak show up as a 4th or 5th round pick. Young and Marino were lower round picks. Before that Dawson, Tarkenton, and Unitis.


My opinion is all you can do is throw a dart. Heck, Brady was what, a 6th round pick?

You can evaluate technique but that is about it.
Also in big programs you might have the Lienhart syndrome...where he has a clear pocket for 6 seconds and looks good as he hits that wide open big time BAY WINDOW WR with a pass.

jmho

That was a concern I had with Watson. Mike Williams has a huge catch radius, and caught a lot of ... less than ideal passes from Watson.

So much depends on how well Hue sets him up for success. Will he sit, watch, and learn for a while? Will the right side of the O-line be solidified? Will the run game be featured and be successful enough to keep pressure off him? Will the receivers group perform in a way that ensures success, or will we see our usual bevy of drops and poor routes? And will Hue & Co. coach him up to the point where he makes good decisions, reads defenses well, improves his mechanics, and finds the open man?

A lot of questions for sure. But worth a shot, as you say.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns coach Hue Jackson expects rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer to draw comparisons to Ben Roethlisberger because of his size, arm strength and mobility.

"I don't know that I've coached a guy with this kind of skill set," Jackson said Thursday on team's in-house radio show, Cleveland Browns Daily on WKNR 850 AM. "But he's a big powerful man, so I know he's going to get compared to another guy on another team in our division.

"I'm not going to talk about [Roethlisberger] because he's that big and he has that kind of arm. He's very mobile. So again, I don't like to compare players and I know people will, but he's got to come in and do what he can do and be the best version of him and that's what we're going to allow him to do.''

That's not all Jackson will allow him to do. He reiterated that he won't dampen Kizer's enthusiasm for becoming the Browns' starter this season.

"We've got to coach him from the ground up, but we're working with a guy that's very talented,'' Jackson said. "This is a guy who has a skill set that's going to allow us to push and prod and get him to where he needs to be. ... I don't think we're going to rush to stick him out there but, at the same time, I'm not going to stop him from being out there if he demonstrates those skill sets very quickly."

Kizer has all the physical attributes Jackson covets, including a prototypical 6-4, 233-pound frame.

"He's a big man," said Jackson. "He has the AFC North stature that I love. He has a big arm. He's very intelligent. He's played in a real big-time football program. He understands the demands of playing the position. He understands the demands of being a quarterback and the face of a franchise.''

But he'll have to beat out Cody Kessler, Brock Osweiler and Kevin Hogan to start games.

"I have to allow these guys to compete,'' he said. "I can honestly say that the group is ahead of where I thought they'd be. Cody's done a great job, Kevin has too and Brock has walked into the building and he's done an outstanding job. I think all three of those guys are doing exactly what I thought they'd do and even moreso.

"And we're going to have a chance to add DeShone into this as well, so I'm excited about the room. We still have a ways to go, but I know without question that we're further along than what we were a year ago.''

As for Kessler, Kizer's likely main challenger, Jackson said, "he's stronger. The ball is stronger. He looks more compact and stronger in the pocket when he's throwing the ball. Again, we've just been in drills and those type of things, but I can tell that he has really worked extremely hard this off-season."

The Browns will get their first look at Kizer on the field next weekend in rookie minicamp.

Link

Jesus, let's not start comparing him to Big Ben. I mean, Ben was a better college player than DeShone. No question about it. He was better than Rivers too, and Rivers was a good College QB. IMO, there's no QB in this class that stood out the way that Big Ben did, the only thing against him was that he played in the MAC. But he was head and shoulders above any MAC QB i've ever seen (although I never saw my main man Chad Pennington, lol)

He was the 53rd pick for a reason........


I really hope that DeShone can just stay on the bench for at least most of the year. Let Cody, Brock, and Kevin duel it out.



I like hearing about this though. Cody is looking more confident, hopefully Brock has a bit of a chip on his shoulder that helps motivate him to improve, and even Kevin Hogan is working. That's the biggest thing. There's a ton of guys who would love to be an NFL QB out there, it's not just talent, it requires a ton of work. Manziel never figured that one out.

I knew that Cody would be working his butt off. That's what he's always done. Since his time at USC that's what he's done. He had to compete to win the job against Max Wittek at USC. He had to hold off Max Brown as well. He wasn't an early offer by USC neither. He played for four coaches at USC also (which means every year he had to show back up and prove himself).

Cody is a fighter. I'm telling you, if there's anything he can do to make himself better, he's gonna try and do it and give it his best shot.


We've heard very little about Brock and Kevin Hogan this offseason though, so it's reassuring that at least Hue has said they've been doing their best. I don't know much about Hogan as a pro (only one game and he's rarely talked about). Same with Brock. I'd like to see something more about both of them from the media. What they've been working on, where they've been, and so on

I thought Hue was comparing him to Greg Landry.


Just kidding. Don't shoot me.

I think Hue was comparing his physical attributes...actually DK is faster

He has to get there...but this is by far the best prospect I think we have ever had at QB.

jmho...I know the last guy I said that was Manziel...smh man if he wasn't a DRUNK!!! I had no clue.

Same, Johnny had me all excited. I figured he was a 21 year old kid and had some growing up to do. But I didn't know it was that much.

My wife started seeing the terrible signs first. That chugging alcohol on the swan thing, lol. And the money phone thing. Then the blowing something in the bathroom thing.

I kept making excuses for him, and I even had hope for him in the second season. I was done when the Browns were done. Missing rehab to be in Vegas or whatever. That was it.

He didn't take the job seriously. Johnny turned out the be a guy who was ridiculously competitive in games, but didn't want to put the work in otherwise. I don't think he ever really had to. Joe Thomas was talking about that in something once. He said that he liked Johnny. He was a nice guy. But being an NFL QB requires more dedication than any other position. It was like being a coach

Hue Jackson: Kizer will draw Big Ben comparisons

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ben-comparisons

When Hue Jackson looks at DeShone Kizer, the Browns coach expects the rookie passer to invariably draw comparisons with an AFC North rival: Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

"I don't know that I've coached a guy with this kind of skill set," Jackson told the team's in-house radio show, Cleveland Browns Daily, per The Plain Dealer. "But he's a big powerful man, so I know he's going to get compared to another guy on another team in our division."

Jackson himself stayed away from drawing specific parallels between the two players, saying: "I'm not going to talk about (Big Ben) because he's that big and he has that kind of arm. He's very mobile. So again, I don't like to compare players and I know people will, but (Kizer's) got to come in and do what he can do and be the best version of him and that's what we're going to allow him to do."

The Browns were thrilled to watch Kizer fall to them at the No. 52 overall pick of last week's draft. In a quarterback room with Cody Kessler, Brock Osweiler and Kevin Hogan, the Notre Dame star gives Cleveland something juicy: a 6-foot-5, 235-pound athlete with a major arm.

Kizer also arrives with concerns over his mechanics, field vision and less-than-stellar record at Notre Dame, leading one scout to tell the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: "He is the classic boom or bust. In terms of arm strength, athleticism, talent, intelligence, he's the highest-end guy. At the same time, he's also the one with the most flaws."

Jackson made it clear Thursday that all of his quarterbacks would have a chance to "compete" for the starting role, adding that the group is "ahead of where I thought they'd be."

Kizer, though, will be watched closely by fans after the team bypassed another Big Ben-like quarterback during last year's draft in Carson Wentz.

"We've got to coach him from the ground up, but we're working with a guy that's very talented," Jackson said of Kizer. "This is a guy who has a skill set that's going to allow us to push and prod and get him to where he needs to be. ... I don't think we're going to rush to stick him out there but, at the same time, I'm not going to stop him from being out there if he demonstrates those skill sets very quickly."

Is there a reason why you posted this again? Cal posted it on the previous page and we discussed it.

I was kinda thinking Pitt would draft Kizer, let him sit 2-3 years, then replace Ben (I did that in our mock draft two weeks ago). I'm not sure Kizer will ever have the accuracy or quick release, but size-wise I see it.

DeShone Kizer's last game at Notre Dame showed what's right and wrong with him: Doug Lesmerises

Lots and lots of GIFS, worth taking a peek at:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

thanks 3rd, i'll look at it later

Excellent article.

Would you mind also posting this in the Hue Jackson, QB Whisperer thread in the Pure Football forum? We are discussing Kizer's accuracy and decision making and this article would fit perfectly there.

Nice find. Thanks.

so i just went through all of those GIFs, and I think part of his accuracy problem comes from his long release. He doesn't need to have such a loopy, whip-type release. I equate it to a shooter in basketball who starts his shot down by his chest. It's a bad habit that began when they lacked strength ... shortening up the release will help accuracy. The less movement before release, the less chance for error.

No problem. Posted!

It's called macinitis. And clearly, it's contagious.

Thanks, Lamp! (Didn't see your post until just now.)

I don't know why this just struck me .......

Kizer

Kosar

Coincidence? LOL



Yeah, they're totally different QBs, and it's just a play on the names, but .. still ........

Just the packers QB Brett and Bart.

It is interesting reading that at the start of 2016 season Kizer and Watson were the Browns #1 target. Moral of the story...a lot can happen in a year. Kizer has the skills he needs the coaching to improve and be more consistent.

Remember when Cardale was everybody's hero and top choice? This also means that while Darnold may be at the top right now....where will he be at the end of the season? Will Rosen, Jackson, Allen, Browning leap frog him? Dak was very much under the radar as was Russell Wilson and Russ has emerged as the best of his year group and Dak certainly was last year.

Regarding Johnny....nothing was right in CLE for him to succeed. The pressures to play him, the too quick to resort to improvised back yard ball, the ego and buying into his own cult of personality, the partying etc. He prob had the best OC/QB coach in Shanahan to work with but, the rest of the foundation around him wasn't strong enough. Hoyer should have stayed our starter but, as soon as one bad game happened the pressure from the FO, the media and us the fans, was too great and the plug was pulled too soon. Not to say Hoyer is good....he is obviously a 4 TD QB one week and a 4 INT QB the next but, Johnny needed A LOT of grooming and patience. I hope we give that to Kizer and don't trot him out too quickly.

I'm still thinking Kessler will be our starting QB, however.

I agree. If I had to bet on the starter week 1 I'd say Kessler

Cardale, top choice, seriously. Hell, no...

I remember very well when the Buckeyes won the Championship people in here were all over Cardale being the top QB. Maybe that was just the Buckeye homers and it was short lived after his following season. But, there was definitely rumblings in this forum about drafting Cardale.

100%

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/916163/diehard#Post916163

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/908703/3

I remember there were even polls in the Plain Dealer, "Would you want to Fail for Cardale ?" Lose games on purpose so the Browns could draft Jones # 1

What is it that you are trying to prove? How many people advocated drafting him in the first two rounds last year? Should we bring up all old posts, like about Farmer, H and H, Weeden, TRich? You complain about rehashing things on one thread, but do it on others.

Let it go.................

Have you read any of these comments?? I was responding to other comments about Cardale graduating from college... not attacking anyone.. going along with what is said.. what are you trying to prove by attacking me? Did you not want the guy to graduate.. Did you not expect comments about a football player, from OSU, who many wanted the Browns to "Fail for Cardale" going back to get his degree. I would think that as an educator you would want to see someone who dropped out of college to go back and get his degree. This is a part of a new discussion, not a continuous rehash of the same thing over and over. Read and enjoy the message board.

As to old posts about Weeden.. T Rich.. ectc.. have you read any of the news articles about the Browns having drafted as many 1st round picks on their roster in this draft than they had before. Did you know that the Browns only had 3 of their own first round picks on the roster before the draft? They were Joe Thomas 2007 and Haden 2010 and Coleman 2016. All others are gone. So yes, maybe a discussion about the missing any missing former 1st round picks may be appropriate. Any other comments you care to make ? Y'all

and just so you know why I was talking about Cardale ...

Ex-Buckeyes QB Cardale Jones graduates from Ohio State

Former Buckeyes quarterback Cardale Jones graduated from Ohio State on Sunday, using his graduation cap to poke fun at his infamous 2012 tweet that declared "classes are pointless" for football players and that "we ain't come here to play school."


Jones told The Columbus Dispatch in February that he returned to Ohio State this spring to complete two remaining classes toward his degree in African-American and African studies. He had left the school in 2016 to declare for the NFL draft. The Buffalo Bills selected him in the fourth round.

As a freshman in 2012, Jones questioned the importance of going to class in a tweet that drew national attention. Jones later deleted his Twitter account, and the university issued a statement reminding student-athletes not to post anything to social media that could "embarrass themselves, their team, teammates, the university, their family or other groups, organizations or people."

Last week, Jones tweeted a screenshot of his 2012 tweet as he prepared to graduate:

Jones led Ohio State to a national championship after the 2014 season. He made his NFL debut in the Bills' regular-season finale in January, entering the game in the fourth quarter.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19331...ates-ohio-state

Danny Shelton & Cam Erving 2015 are both still on the team correct? So that would be 5.

That is very true. I stand corrected.

Random thought.

Everyone seems "ok" that we took Kizer at 52. He's a good project QB at that spot.

But what if we had taken him earlier?

What if we had traded up to 29, and instead of taking Njoku, we took Kizer?

The perspective is completely different.

Just wondering out loud.

I'd say so. It's not a huge jump but it's a jump. Something like Kizer at 12 would have broken all things loose

Had we traded up for or taken Kizer at 12 this board would have exploded and our FO would have been called everything but a legit FO ... JMHO

As the draft was progressing, I totally thought we were going to take him at 12 and then again when we took Peppers and then again when we trade up for Njoku. What a relief.

Njohu is a better player to take at #29 at least on paper. DK at # 29 is a reach. We took DK at a good spot. If he turns out to be our franchise QB then we took him at a great spot.!!!

Exactly, at #52, Kizer was a great player to take a shot on IMO

That's how I see it.

When we traded up my guess was for Kizer. I wouldn't have been upset at all but I still can't believe he slid to 52

I also think there was a relief in me that we didn't rush to pick a QB. Panicking to do anything never makes sense. Except for UConn trying to get into the ACC. My Huskies didn't panic, and we should have.

But anyway....... When it comes to picking a QB, panicking is a bad call. I just don't think Mahomes is worth the 10, I don't think Trub would have been worth whatever we would have had to trade up for him (and I don't think he was worth more than Garrett, although that's the closest). I def think the 25 and a Texans 2018 first round pick was worth more than Watson.

So part of it is the relief that we didn't do what some of these bonehead media guys hold against us (and that's reach for a QB). Instead we waited, got a guy with a ton of Potential at 52, and built a pretty strong draft class.

Thats my Quarterback!

I dislike the shape of that helmet.

I'm a Revo Speed kinda guy.

I hope he doesn't play till year 3.

What I love is how all the "experts" said this draft had no franchise type QB's and they were hardly worth a first round pick.. Happens EVERY year. I guess the GM's and coaches and owners see things differently. Considering what they gave up in all the trades .. you could argue they considered the guys selected even better than previous college QB's taken high. Maybe they were more desperate.. but it still doesn't negate the fact they made the investment and took a chance. Waiting for a sure thing is futile cause there ain't no such thing.

If a college QB has decent size, a good arm and some smarts then he probably is considered draftable and teams are willing to take a chance. Why? Because it is the toughest position to fill in sports. Period. If you look at the 32 teams in the league there are probably only 17 or 18 that are comfortable with the qb position. Some that are know in the next 2 or 3 years they are going to have to draft a replacement because the guy they got is getting older. There aren't enough good ones to go around. As Browns fans we know that better than anyone.

You sound rather hostile for someone who doesn't post much.

Do you love all the choices that the real experts have made? Such as, Manziel, Weeden, Timid, BQ, Leaf, Ponder, Gabbert, Manuel, V. Young, Locker, etc? LOL

Being drafted high as a qb is not even close to being a sure thing. In fact, I have an article that is a year or two old that breaks down all the first round qb picks in recent memory. Believe me on this one.............the guys in the NFL are not exactly experts when it comes to drafting qbs. But, you go ahead and keep making fun of posters who voice their opinions regarding QBs on a message board. It's productive.

Uh ? I wasn't referring to any "experts" on this board.. Their aren't any. When it comes to picking a QB out of the draft it appears no team is an expert either. You pick your poison and do the best you can with the knowledge at hand. We have made some STUPID decisions at that position but I would have been fine taking Mitch early on to take a shot. At least he appears to have all the tools, is young, clean cut and eager to work. To me.. that's about as close as you can get to a sure thing. THAT was my observation. I'm not sure what you read into it, but responses like yours IS one of the reasons I DON'T post my thoughts often.

Truer words have never been spoken here.

in my best Stewie Griffin voice " wait, a minute"

Yeah as wonder if he will either see the field in 2017 or be in week 1 starter?

That's a ballsy move.

Starting Kizer right away is basically "being done with" Cody to a point. You can't then go back to him if Kizer is really struggles.

I'm on the fence really. I don't have much faith in Cody becoming more that a "Brian Hoyer" type.

But I do not believe Kizer is even close to ready. However, I've always said I'm in favor of starting a rookie. Because in Cleveland, they're probably ganna end up playing anyways..

Might as well start your career throwing bombs to Coleman and beating the Steelers, right?

based on Thomas' quotes yesterday, Cody will be the starter. you usually make your biggest jump after year 1, so I'm excited to see how he looks.

- Brian Hoyer type had us tied for 1st place in the division once

- I think Hue will let them compete for the starting spot. Best man in camp will start. I am glad that he gave Kessler a vote of confidence tho.

LOL.....I think you are a cool guy, but man, watching Kessler is about as exciting as watching grass grow.

I love my lawn...

Won't get into Kessler as this is the Kizer thread. but Hoyer without the choke is not that bad of a deal for a Bridge starter as we wait for Kizer to develop.

The more I see of Kizer though the kid has special talents it just has to be tweaked so that he maintains consistency in his game. Tweaking as in not a simple task. First Break him down and get rid of the bad habits. Next is to have discipline footwork drilled into him. All the while getting an in depth understanding of the NFL Defenses, to trust his WRs and their routes, Reading what he has out there pre-snap and post snap.

I think it will be exciting this year but first things first,
learn how to win!
jmho

haha there were times last fall when I chose to cut the grass instead of watching us play, if that counts

And how many teams has he been on in how many years now?

A lot, but I think Hoyer is a better qb than Kessler.

But, that's just me.

And who was the first QB Shanahan called to come play for his 9ers? Was so confident in him, he didn't have Lynch pull the trigger on a QB in the 1st or 2nd.

Yeah. Brian Hoyer why they didn't draft a QB...

j/c ... is hoyer with SF? thought he was. is he slated to start? I haven't kept up with it

Looks that way. SF did trade up into the 3rd to take the Iowa QB who was projected in the late rounds. Feels a lot like what we did with Kessler. Wouldn't surprise me if year 1 played out similarly for them.

Hoyer with 8 years experience and his last 4 with more of him actually playing...over a Rookie 3rd round pick QB...I would have to say from that analysis Hoyer is better.

But we can anticipate the results of some facts.
1. Kessler spent the off season strengthening his arm...and yes it can be done.

2. Kessler has over a year in the playbook that he was managing last season.

3. Kessler has had an off season to prepare himself mentally with his experience of last season.

4. There is a natural NFL QB maturation from season one to season two especially from a QB whose best asset is his football intelligence and accuracy!

At this stage I would rather have Kessler than Hoyer and next season there would be even more separation. I would like to see a little more FINISH in Kessler and our entire team for that matter this 2017 season.

jmho

j/c

Once again I'd like to remind people that Kessler is "going into training camp as the #1 QB'. That really doesn't mean anything accept he was the starter at the end of last season.

Kessler can't be any worse than last year, which isn't saying a whole lot ... but I do expect some improvement. I'm not sure how much stronger his arm can get, but knowing the offense and making quicker decisions should help.

I agree.

Let's see if Kessler can improve.

It's better than the other options currently...

Really? How do you know that?

Well. Ignoring the fact that is my opinion...

Brock Osweiler was terrible last season. And there's little evidence to show he won't be again.

Kizer, at this moment, IN MY OPINION, isn't anywhere close to being ready.

And Hogan is a camp arm. IMO

Good enough for you?

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any agency of the U.S. government. Examples of analysis performed within this post are only examples. They should not be utilized in real-world analytic products as they are based only on very limited and dated open source information. Assumptions made within the analysis are not reflective of the position of any U.S. government entity.

^This right here. People have assumed that he has improved, but we haven't seen any evidence of it yet. Hue said he thinks his balls have more zip. Kessler says he was all upper body last year and is using his lower body this year, but none of that means he won't continue to dink and dunk once the heat is on, or that he won't retreat into his short throw shell the first time he tosses an INT on a deep ball. Color me skeptical.

Hogan's going to be the starting QB on game 16. Guaranteed. I think Kessler will start. Brock could make Hue think twice though if he can get his deep ball working. I think if Kizer ever has to play this year, he'll be used like how Hogan was used last year. Just run a bunch of options. I think that'll be our best chance to win.

Ya thats why he didn't pull the trigger on a qb this year ..

Cause Kizer's not gonna be ready and Brock is absolutely HORRIFIC ..

This one's not that hard bro ..

I think we need to take a timeout on Brock.

He didn't get the type of money he did if he is horrific.

Hue is the anti-O'brian.

Let's just wait and see

NFL front offices are always right and pay players the correct amount of money every time.

You are getting annoying. At one time you were a good poster. Lately you are the king of generalization.


Go back to the other guy. You were good at that.


I said, lets just wait and see. We had money to burn, and it's not your money. The team probably HAD to start spending money to meet the league minimums as far under the cap as we were..and we gained a 2nd rounder.

But to take the attitude the guy is useless is bogus. At least let it run through camp. I don't see any negative in that. What's your beef? It's not like we have named him the starter.

I loved the trade. I just don't think Osweiler is worth the time. He's bad.

I have to stop and say the "it's not your money" is one of the worst arguments a person can make. You are right, it is not my money. But I am invested in the team and I would like them to spend money wisely to set themselves up for future success. In the case of the Osweiler trade, I think they spent the money wisely.

He's not even close to useless ... he's worth a 2nd round pick for us .. WOOOHOOOO ...

He STINKS .. he STUNK at Denver and he STUNK last year ..

He lost his job in Denver to a 40% Payton Manning .. Payton couldn't throw the ball more than 20 yards last year when he came back ..

Last year he lost his job to Tom frickin Savage ...

Did u watch him play last year ... i watched all his games ... he was so bad he rendered HOPKINS USELESS ,,,. Hopkins is a top 5 reciever in the NFL .. maybe top 3 .. he has the wingspan of an octopus ... hes NCREDIBLE ... Brock took him out of games ,,, he codn't throw the ball ner him ..

He's really really bad .. he will make the team over Hogan and ifCody can't beat him out .. I'll be seriously depressed ..

You guys are so negative about my Browns.

Lol.... I just watched a low-light reel on him and man, he's worse than I thought he was. He's a mess with mechanics, awareness and god knows what else.

Yet, I still think he is a better option for us than Kessler.

Yeah, I don't know how anyone thinks that Osweiler has any kind of deep ball. If he does, he's kept it hidden from the NFL until now.

People hate stats ..... but man, look at his stats throwing the ball anything near down the field.

In 2015, when he had excellent weapons, deep threats, he could barely get the ball down the field.

Behind the LOS, he was good.

1-10 yards in the air, he was good.

11-20 yards in the air, he was a 43% passer.

Over 21 yards in the air? 6-27. That was with really good downfield weapons.

Not to build him up overmuch, but Kessler,. with lesser weapons, and inexperience all around him, was 63% from 11-20 yards, and was also ineffective from 21+ yards. 6-19.

I don't get why anyone thinks that Osweiler is some string armed QB, who is going to push the ball down the field.

Check this out. And watch it. For real. If you want more, let me know.

That's one game, almost assuredly his best ever.

I don't see them being nagative about the Browns.

All I am saying about Brock is let's wait and see. I am sure those guys are probably right, but a fresh start has helped players in the past. It might here as well.

I was hoping you would actually watch and notice that he can indeed throw the deep ball.

Oh well....

Actually it means a lot.
1. He will get the Lion's share of the #1 reps something he got hardly any of last season.

2. Somebody will have to really step up to take his status away. see #3

3. Being pegged as the #1 QB invokes confidence in a young QB,
Confidence is such an under rated virtue needed in a starting QB.

So it actually means a lot.

Other posts. Got news for you Kizer would win the starting job before BO does and there is hardly a chance that Kizer progresses enough to win the starting job.

Many of you are working off the premise that Kessler simply cannot throw a deep ball so that the Vertical game is null and void. Forget about desired Arm Strength, The deep out is the only pass really effected by deficient arm strength. And Kessler's arm is not as bad as many state on this board.

But one of the easiest passes is the Bomb. You don't want it on A LINE which a very strong arm can do. You want air under it and a very average arm can throw it up there.

Kessler's problem was pulling the trigger. We will see how he improves there. Logically his mental aspects of the game should progress greatly. Of course I could be wrong. I don't spend enough time watching him practice everyday.

I do like the fact that Joe Thomas has confidence in him and feels that there is plenty of zip on the ball of late.

Those who state you cannot strengthen an arm...simply do not know what they are talking about. All that tells me is they in their experience have never been able to accomplish that as a player or a coach.

Like many situations Kessler will probably be much better than negative views and a lot closer to average from us positive posters.

One thing that is undeniable about him. He is above average in his accuracy. I cannot remember a more accurate passer that we have had here since 1999.

jmho

Cody Kessler was a late 3rd (almost 4th) round pick just one year ago. He was forced into starting in week 3 of his rookie season for a team that was tremendously deficient in a whole lot of areas and gave up 17 more sacks than the second most sacked team in the NFL....

Now I have no idea how good he might be... but given what SHOULD HAVE BEEN expected of him and what he was ultimately thrown into, you can bet your butt that damn near ANYBODY would have retreated into a "short throw shell".. it's called SELF-PRESERVATION. When your options are "Get it out in 2.5 seconds for 4 yards" or "scramble around and take an 8 yard loss"... you dump it off, every single time.

No! We must decide his career now, in May!

Kessler just simply isn't ready to be an NFL Starting QB "Right Now" He may be in the future, but last year actually stunted his growth and hurt him more then it helped him. He had no confidence at all to throw ball downfield.

What Kessler needs to to sit and actually learn with no pressure on him, same with Kizer.

I know folks want to say how "bad" Brock Osweiler was last year but the fact is Osweiler is:

1. The most expereinced Qb on the roster
2. The only Qb with Playoff Experience.
3. The only QB with a playoff win
4. Sat and Learned behind Manning.

Even if BO doesn't work out, he should be the starter going into next year...Both Kessler and Kizer need time for them to develop...neither of those guys are ready nor do they have a chance putting them out there next year. These guys are both developmental picks.

We need to stop setting up our young guys to fail....Kessler development was actually stunted last year due to putting him out there...we should have signed someone off the street to play instead as Kessler clearly wasn't ready to play.

If Osweiler can do one thing, he can buy Kessler and Kizer time..a year to sit and actually work on the things a Qb needs to do to have a chance in this league....nothing good will come of marching a project like Kessler or Kizer out on that field next year before they are ready....Kessler was seen as a 3-4 year project by many not even ready to sniff the field until year 3 by scouts...putting him out there is just setting the kid up to fail.

I can't believe for one second Jackson is this stupid though...I think Osweiler goes into the season opener as the starter, he is the only experienced guy on the roster, and he has shown in the past he is capable of playing pretty well. Last year in Houston could be an liberation, and your gotta go with the veteran when your other QB are projects as best.

Going with anyone other then Osweiler to start the year is setting up Kessler and Kizer for failure. Trust me, Oswieler doesn't make heart leap with joy at the fact of him starting, but he is the only guy we have with experience, and he is the best Qb we have on the roster right now sadly.

Maybe Kessler or Kizer will develop into the best, but until then you have to give the nod to the veteran guy(Oswieler) until either Kizer of Kessler can beat him out for the job in practice and games.

I take your point, DC, but I saw it on his college tape too. I'm not writing him off, I do want him to succeed, and I did see some some things I liked last year (finding the open man, converting on 3rd & long, seeing the field), but I do have these other concerns.

What it means tab is that at the beginning of camp, before anyone has taken a snap, he is considered the #1 QB on the roster. That could change at any moment. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's funny, most posters have always promoted the idea of allowing rookies and young QB's to sit and learn. Right up to the moment it's time for that to actually happen. Then...... well you have read the thread. lol

He's pretty mature when he speaks to media, mature sounding anyway (least the interviews I've listened to.) Seems like he's aware of the work he needs to put forth to have a chance to compete for the starting position.

He threw the ball well in that one game.

That was about the only game in his career where he did that well.

Even Brady Quinn had 1 good game in his career.

lol

I see only an injury replacing Kessler at #1.

I think Kessler is pretty steady so for somebody to beat him out...actually I would love to see that cause that means somebody IMPROVED MIRACULOUSLY

YTown, I did not search for that game. It was the first one I clicked on.

I watched the guy. You have admitted you don't watch NFL football many, many times.

I am telling you that he can throw the deep ball way, way better than Kessler. It ain't close.

Now, I know how you get about qbs. I remember your passion for Weeden and disdain for anyone who would challenge him. I remember your love for Timid and hate for Holcomb. I remember your how you hated McCoy.

You are usually a reasonable poster, but something about qbs drives you off the deep end. Not sure why, but it's very evident.

I don't think either Brock or Kessler are the long-term answer here, and I get that you are going to fight tooth-and-nail to prop Kessler up, just like you did w/your last great qb---Brandon Weeden. However, don't expect me to buy in, especially when you refuse to acknowledge that the guy threw a couple of unbelievable deep passes w/amazing accuracy and touch in that video.