DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Peppers Begins in Stage One

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/05/jabrill_peppers_starts_browns.html

It's only concerning if this becomes a pattern obviously

yeah I agree, it's not an issue.
Yet.

He's on alert, warned and knows there's minimal wiggle room. Let's hope he cannot possibly be as stupid as Gordon and stays clean, forever. No issues. No news. No headlines.

Unless of course it's because he leveled some dude, made a pick six or something of that nature lol!

Well he's a Browns player.

If he's any good he'll get injured or suspended.
If he's a bust he'll be fine.

I'm in a bad mood today, obvious? lol

Sad but that describes the past decade IMO

Too much water? Not even the presence of THC? I'm siding with the new guy.

How is this not an issue?

I don't understand why, if they pee a diluted sample, they don't just test them again a day or two later warning him to not drink so much water. If there's THC in his system it ain't gonna go away in a day or two.

I think that makes a lot more sense then just calling the diluted sample a fail and leaving it at that.

As was talked about in the draft thread, Joe Thomas said that guys load up on water during the combine to stay hydrated (and keep their weight up). If you have a diluted sample and you are in the league they let you pee again until the sample is not diluted. Thomas said that has happened to him before. I am not sure why the combine protocol differs from the one once players are in the league.

Either way, Peppers being in the program is concerning because he now has no wiggle room.

That's weird that there would be two different methods.... I agree that if you have a dilute sample you should have to pee again until you're not diluted...

I know a guy in SC who got a DUI. He had to go to classes and there were 3 or 4 pee tests. They warned him that a dilluted sample is considered a failure. The dude was a big time runner and drank a ton of water. Guess what? He made sure to not overdo it w/the water when he was in the program.

Peppers knew the rules. I think his claim is BS! Just like Gordon's w/the cough medicine story...LOL.

*The above is just my opinion and I am not saying my opinion is correct. Also, I am not interested in arguing about it.

It stinks he's in a program before he even suits up of us. I like the fact the team did their background checks and picked him anyway. Unlike what Farmer regime did....GO Browns!!!

In all fairness, the guy you know was already in a treatment program, and he wasn't working out for the combine. I mean, sure, he's a big-time runner, but it's not like he has a race the day of his classes probably. Or classes after the race is over.

What I don't understand is why agents don't tell their clients to take a multi-vitamin an hour or so before the test. I mean, theoretically, if he did that, he wouldn't be dilouted (if he was diluted for drinking too much water and not for taking some masking drink.

I'm not sure what the deal is with my work on that, as we get drug tested regularly. But I've never seen anyone fired for being diluted.

Either way, as long as he doesn't use pot/drugs (which he says he doesn't), he should be fine. Although I hope Joe Haden has a little convo with him about all this (seeing as he failed and was suspended because of Adderol)

So...............you are saying that Peppers was NOT told that a diluted sample would count as a failed test?

I totally understand the situations are different, but my point was that when you know the criteria ahead of time, you should not mess up.

Come on, man!

Oh agreed. But also, Peppers is a 21 year old kid. If he's never failed a drug test in his life and never done drugs, he probably didn't even think about it.

That's why I would figure agents would tell kids to make sure that if they're going to drink a ton of water, they should take a multi-vitamin a little before the drug test.


Then again, Peppers could have been worried about the test because he smoked pot or something a couple weeks before, and drank a ton of water to try to dilute as much as he could (and then end up coming up diluted).

Just 1 reason I didn't want him. I hope that he straightens things out from here on.

Sashi Brown didn't seem to be signing off on the whole "I just drank too much water" thing, basically warning Peppers that he is responsible for everything he puts in his body.

I get that Peppers is a high end returner ..... but I am worried about other value to the team, and this whole diluted sample thing really worries me.

I hope I am wrong, and that Peppers will be a high quality player for the Browns ..... but I am concerned about this pick more than any other.

I kind of have an issue with Peppers being placed in Step 1. Per the NFLPA-NFL agreement, a player is placed into step 1 if they test positive for drugs. Peppers didn't. His combine sample was too diluted for an accurate reading. There was no report the sample being positive for drugs. There was no retest. If he had been in the NFLPA, he would have had (the opportunity) to retest. Even on my job, which has a very strict drug policy with random tests, a positive must be verified before punitive action can be taken. There has been no positive test, yet here he is in step 1.

I understand your frustration Vers, but it is not that simple. When you are training for a competition, all you are told to do is hydrate to avoid cramps and dehydration. You are also shedding fat and cutting weight, which screws up your body chemistry. He has no way to know that he over hydrated for the test. Everyone has a different consumption and processing rate.

I think this is ridiculous. Diluted sample with no positive tests? It should have been thrown out and a surprise whiz quiz given at a later date. Starting a guy in the drug protocol is a blemish on his entire career regardless of his innocence.

I don't think any drug test should affect their NFL careers until they are signed and report to camp. The rest is ridiculous.

Correct me if I'm wrong but all he has to do is test clean for 90 days and he is back out of the program completely with no blemish left on him, right? When did or does the 90 days start? If it was the combine date he should be about out of it anyway.

I probably should have elaborated in my first post.
If he's in Stage 1, it's not a BIG issue 'yet'... if he messes up again it starts to become a big problem. Peppers says it was an innocent mistake - although obviously one he shouldn't make - so I'll take his word for it (not that my opinion really matters).
Right now, it's a minor problem.

I get all that, about hydrating. But then why do not more guys at the combine have diluted samples? It does not seem all that prevalent. Sounds like most of them realize the landscape and expectations of the combine and adjust for it. As they should.

I don't think it's 90 days? I think it's way more than that. I could be wrong though.

* Peppers will enter Stage One of the program. He will not face any fine or suspension for the dilute test. In Stage One, Peppers can be tested multiple times. The first stage is designed to last no longer than 90 days, except for special circumstances. If Peppers does not have another positive test, he will exit the program.

* If Peppers has another positive test, he will face a fine (but no suspension) and then be moved to Stage Two. That stage is scheduled for 24 months, and players can start to face suspensions for further positive tests in that stage. Continual positive tests (and suspensions) can then lead to Stage Three, which is the final stage in the program (and can lead to long-term suspensions that require reinstatement by the commissioner).



source: http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2017/04/jabrill_peppers_dilute_drug_test_nfl_substance_abu.html

nope, youre right frenchy

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Agents/2016SOAPolicy_v2.pdf

Players will remain in Stage One for a period not to exceed 90 days;

There will always be a stigma attached to him. There will always be people (fans, media, etc) who will say he has a drug problem because of this.

Peppers could be considered slight of build depending on what position teams were looking at him playing. At a little over 7lbs a gallon, drining water is a good way to boost your weight by 4-5 lbs.

Not making excuses here. Just trying to figure out the motivation. Either way, noting points to drug use, so if that's the case, he should be out of the program by training camp.

I am reading posts about how unfair this is. All the dude has to do is stay clean, which he should do anyway. I don't believe that he will have a "a stigma attached to him" for a diluted sample provided he stays clean.

I know I'm an older guy, but it galls me that when people mess up, the first thing others do is try and deflect blame away from that person and place it somewhere else. Man up!!!

Those 90 days he should spend working on his coverage abilities and strength/muscle.

He's got no time for drugs. Even if he's never done any drugs, he's got no time for drugs lol.

He DID stay clean with not even a trace amount of any banned substance...hence people saying this Stage 1 stuff isn't fair. Everyone on this Board will agree that he broke a rule - knowingly or unknowingly matters not.

The kids never been in trouble. He's never failed a drug test. Why would you assume he was warned about something that's never even been a issue?

Water is 8.35 lbs/gallon

Water is 8.35 lbs/gallons

Uhmmmm...........because everyone is. Players know that a diluted sample counts as a failure.

The NFL and reality are not on the same page at times .

Correct...but how would he know when he reached the point of being over-hydrated? I don't think I've ever even heard that word before...over-hydrated. Make sure you stay hydrated...but don't over-hydrate? And at the combine no less where he is working out with more than one position group.

Rules are rules and he broke one...that doesn't make the rule any less unfair though...especially in instances like this. Why not just re-test him the very next day?

Yeah, exactly. They wouldn't even need to wait until the next day. They could just keep re-testing until it's not dilute.

j/c:

I think people are automatically taking the word of Peppers and his "source." Here is what they said:







Who is supporting that story? Anyone from the Combine? The NFL? The Browns?


Here is what Sashi Brown had to say:






Why don't we hear more stories about players w/diluted samples? We heard about Foster, but over the years, how common is it? Are they the only guys that drink too much water? Sorry, I ain't buying it.

This is where we are seeing a bit more eye to eye.

This seems to be an issue this year and only this year.

Like i've said, in my time dealing with drug tests and reading about them, the only people I know who showed up dilute was kids (whom I worked with) who took masking agents in work related drug tests. I also think that many tests can find many of the masking agents now, but this i'm less sure of, as the only people i know who have taken masking agents did like 8 or 9 years ago.

I don't think that Jabril could successfully take a masking agent at the combine. I just don't think he could athletically do it. They make you go to the bathroom so much, and from what I remember, I think it's both not just peeing. It would certainly affect performance, and he performed well. Although looking online, I can see that there are some that are sold that say they work in an hour. So, I guess, if you're gonna fail your test, you might as well give it a shot (what's there to lose).


Has anyone but Jabril confirmed that it was because the urine was dilute? And would the Browns draft him where they did if he was lying about why the sample failed?


The one thing that gives me any belief that Jabril might be telling the truth is that I would think, if he was trying to beat a drug test, he'd know enough to take a couple multi-vitamins like an hour before the test. Or even like an airborne/emergen-c that is mixed with water. He could easily call that a sports drink or something, and nobody would ever know.

EDIT: The second thing being that the Browns did draft him at the end of the 1st round, right around many speculated he'd go. I'd think if he did fail the test for some other reason than dilute, and he was going around saying that he failed because it was dilute, it would either A) Have been reported that he was lying or B) He wouldn't have been drafted even near 25