DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Brock Pt 2

As far as his arm he sounds a bit like Derek Anderson except DA had no touch. More like Vinny Testaverde after he learned how to throw it away instead of forcing it.

DA had a beautiful touch on his deep passes. But, while Brock has a strong arm.............I don't think it compares to DA's.

Vers I should have said DA had no touch on the short passes. If I remember correctly, his short and intermediate passes were all fastballs.

I agree.

Lawrence Vickers had really good hands for a FB.

Because he had to.. for his own safety..

Here's the review:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/brock-osweiler?id=2533436

I agree with you on the lowlights not being as bad as I expected. However, they brought up the concern that his receivers didn't really seem to be trying to make plays for him fairly often. Hopkins is/was a great receiver, but he seemed to give up on a lot of balls that he could have possibly caught/at least should have attempted to catch. I don't know if they quit on him/O'Brien or if the receivers just had trouble tracking his balls for some reason (spin?, trajectory?, wrong shoulder?, "movement"?).

He looks the part, but are the intangibles there? Does he have issues, or were there issues with his contract-"a to whom much is given, much is expected" deal?

I'm not trying to make conclusions in this post, just trying to look at different angles.

I would really hope that no coach in the league would do something on purpose to make a player less than he can be.

Vickers? We gotta get that guy!!

Vers,

You mentioned that he had occasionally threw some head scratchers... were you able to get a sense of when those types of throws would happen? As in, the game was on the line, or they needed an important 3rd down? I guess what I'm asking is do these negatives rear their heads as a result of the pressure of the situation?

Thanks Ham. You're right. Some of the same things are occurring. I'll copy and post it here:

I didn't notice that, but I only watched 4 videos plus the low-light one.

He did seem to make some dumb decisions when he was pressured heavily in the pocket, but that's true of almost all quarterbacks.

Two things kinda stood out to me w/his bad throws:

1. He trusts his arm a lot. He takes chances.

2. This is going to sound weird and maybe it is...LOL...but, it's like there are times when there is a short-circuit between his brain and his body. There were a few throws where he just looked somewhat spastic and threw a dart into the dirt. LOL......looked crazy as heck.

I've been thinking about this a lot and haven't reached a true conclusion, but I am at the point where I certainly wouldn't just hand him the keys to the team, but I wouldn't cut him, either. I think he has enough talent and enough good film to allow him to compete for the starting position. And, it's not like we have an Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady back there.

I just hope the media and fans won't be brutal if he indeed gets a shot. That can really derail things for a team and the player.

I think reviewing some of his Denver videos from 2015 might be helpful in assessing his QB skills as he would certainly have been more comfortable and knowledgeable in that offense.

I posted the video of Brock playing against New England while he was w/Denver. It's almost at the very bottom of page 5 if you want to check it out.

Thanks. He looked like a completely different QB in Denver than in Houston and that would be understandable given his time in that offense, especially working with Manning. Much more confident in that offense.

How similar is Hue's offense to Kubiak's? I know that they had a zone blocking run oriented scheme.

Yep — Mister Potato Cannon. Force it through a brick wall. Did he ever throw a fade ever?

It reads like he's basically Kelly Holcomb mentally (see weaknesses) with Derek Anderson's strengths.

If Hue can get him to keep the gunslinger in check for a year, he could do well.

Yeah, I was just wondering if he's the kind of guy who goes to crap when it comes to crunch time. Doesn't necessarily sound like it's the case which is good.

That short-circuit thing you were talking about kind of sounds like a guy who changes his mind in mid throw... either he suddenly doesn't think he'll make it or the defender makes a break and it's too late to stop the throwing motion?

As to the fickleness of fans... I don't think it looks good for this trio.. except maybe Kizer. If either Brock or Cody start and look like crap, it wo't be long until the other is called for. If Kizer is on the field, I think collectively there will be a little more tolerance, but if his play is costing us wins...

Watching him, does anyone get the feeling that the game just hasn't "slowed down" for him? Players always talk about when they start to feel comfortable with the game speed of the NFL and start seeing things better. With Osweiler's head scratch moments and issues in progressions, maybe he just hasn't hit that point where he's calm on the field.

The blow-ups with O'Brien in Houston could add credence to this. If he's already having problems processing what he's seeing, having your coach jump down your throat on the issue would certainly cause some head butting as, in Brock's mind, he's doing all he can.

Osweiler has some sick physical gifts but the mental part of the game hasn't seem to have really clicked yet. Maybe a fresh start with no expectations will help that happen. Or maybe he's just one of many talented players that just can't deal with NFL game speed.

Brock Osweiler ranks high in air yards and what that means

http://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/0...hat-that-means/

New Cleveland Browns quarterback Brock Osweiler is generally regarded as one of the NFL’s least effective and most inefficient throwers. However, the big former Texans starter does rank highly in one category: air yards.

It’s a somewhat confusing moniker, but air yards are the percentage of the total passing yards gained strictly from the throw. It leaves out all the yards after the catch. Quarterbacks who rank high in air yards tend to complete passes farther down the field.

The good folks at Pro Football Focus broke down how Osweiler compared in 2016 against the Cleveland triumvirate at QB in air yards.



Pro Football Focus
✔
@PFF

Comparing the air yards of veteran QBs on the Browns roster from the 2016 season.
4:16 AM - 9 Jun 2017

His No. 6 overall ranking shows Osweiler is more successful at throwing the ball down the field than any of the Cleveland QBs, notably the one who remains, Cody Kessler, who ranked No. 21 out of 37.

Context is important here. One reason why his air yards are so high is that Osweiler is relatively terrible on short throws. He doesn’t have a lot of 4-yard outs on his resume because he’s wildly inaccurate with them. Osweiler thrives at throwing the 10-to-20 yard passes, which were more of a staple of Houston’s offense than what the Browns did in Hue Jackson’s first year in Cleveland too.

Osweiler thrives at throwing the 10-to-20 yard passes, which were more of a staple of Houston’s offense than what the Browns did in Hue Jackson’s first year in Cleveland too. The Texans only threw 64 passes to the running backs all season, while the Browns threw more than double that many at 139 total.

If Osweiler can improve his accuracy on the more frequent shorter throws in Jackson’s offense, his willingness and ability to attack more down the field provides Osweiler a legit feather in his cap over Kessler in their QB battle this summer.

They spent a lot of time working on footwork and lower body with Kizer and Brock and I have already seen some of it paying off in his drop backs and hip rotation. This should lead to better accuracy especially in the short to mid areas.

I'm not really sure. Haven't tried to compare them. I do know that there was a lot of talk about how completely different Denver and Houston's offenses were and how that might have led to some of his issues.

I do think that Hue can be good for Brock.

Like Mourg said, he might fix some of his mechanical issues. Also, Hue is pretty darn good at play design and play calling and he can probably take advantage of Brock's strengths and keep teaching him along the way.

I like the possibility of this because I think that having a qb who can challenge the defense will really open up the running game and keep defenses honest.

Not having enough time in O'Brien's system would also exacerbate that problem, no?

Having a guy like Gordon that could blow the top off a defense to go with an arm as big as Brock's would be kinda nice, and REALLY help the running game.


What's Randy Moss up to these days?

TV, I think.

But yeah, Gordon's ability to stretch the D would be huge w/a guy like Osweiler at qb.

We have to hope that Coleman can become the deep threat he was in college.

Just did a quick search, Ricardo Louis ran a 4.43 at the combine, and Jordan Payton ran a 4.47. Either one of these guys is fast enough to stretch a defense, aren't they? Even if it's just to keep one CB honest.

I think Coleman ran a 4.37.

Louis caught some deep passes at Auburn, but he has a lot of drops.

Coleman was a very good deep threat in college.

If you want to win games this year, Brock has to be the opening day starter going in. Hue knows this too, he is just making Brock earn it, and he will beat Kessler because Brock is more talented plain and simple.

Brock had one bad year, big deal...one year a career it does not define.

Brock will bounce back under Jackson's offense and have a pretty good year, a year good enough to keep Kizer on the bench so he can learn the pro game and learn the offense.

also, you never know...Brock may be the guy here for the next few years...wouldn't it be funny we win the big one with Brock and the Texas gave him to us and gave us a draft pick for him? lol

the Texans would never live that one down

Seriously though, I think many Browns fans will be pleasantly surprised with Brock. Hue seems to love him, and he will soak up everything Hue teaches like a sponge. The kid is hungry, he wants to prove last year was a fluke. This kid has the potential to do big things, and Brock is still young yet...plenty of room to grow.

I don't believe anyone can say with the least bit of confidence which QB will win the competition. All 3 have sucked up to now, Brock has looked slightly better with no pressure. We will see what happens when things go live.

Personally, I think it will be either Brock or Kizer because of their size and arms but of those 2, it could really be either. Now if Hue decides all suck and his best option is the game manager that wont make a lot of mistakes then that is Cody.

Lets just hope one man steps up and claims the position and its not he sucked a little bit less than the next guy or like last year with mcCown, I dotn want to compete here RG3 u have it

My preference is to roll with Kessler. He takes care of teh ball. The ONLY reason Brock might get the nod is based on arm strength. I dont trust his decision making abilities whatsoever.

I am all for giving Brock a chance, but I think you may have went a bit overboard.

A question or two for you.

Did it not bother you how teams game-planned against Kessler and took away the run and half the field? Or, are you one of those posters that maintain I am making that up?

You have posted how NE game planned against Kessler like 1000 times. Not once have I questioned it, lol.

I just prefer a guy who can take care of the ball. Kessler does that, and I expect him to grow and hopefully with some good coaching and play calls, he'll improve.

I was just asking, Turk.

I think it is inappropriate to have a preference.

Insufficient information to make a call.

It should be questioned because it didn't happen. Kessler was in for three series that game. The second series was the best scoring drive we've had in a looooooong time. The other two series were ended by NE scheming against the Erving/Bailey duo who nearly got CK killed.

Other teams may have schemed against CK to take away parts of the field...but NE isn't one of them.

There is a poster who keeps saying that I am making things up about NE's scheme against the Browns. He says they didn't. He says that Cody only played three series.

I think most of you know this, but in case you don't.........teams develop their game plans before the game and don't wait until a guy has played three series to start making a game plan. Also, I have even posted an article on the matter that supports my position. ed posted one earlier this year but I can't find that one now. One more thing.....I believe that some of you know that I understand alignments and schemes from my coaching and scouting days. I am not making anything up. Period.

I've stood on the sidelines marveling at all the posts debating this ... i can't watch anymore ... its turned into a car wreck ... *LOL* ...

CK vs NE ...

Drive 1 - 2 hand offs and an incomplete pass on 3rd down ..

Drive 2 - long TD drive aided by a penalty ..

Drive 3 - a hand off and a drop back ... not sure he made it to the end of his drop before he was CRUSHED and fumbled ...

U be the judge ...

Not sure why this is such a hot topic ... weather Vers is right or wrong about NE and everyone learning to game plan against us .. WHO CARES ..

Any DC with a half a brain was going to make CK beat them with 15 + yard throws in the air and stack the box against the run ... CK simply didn't throw the ball downfield last year ..

Vers is 100% correct in how teams game planned for us with CK as the QB .. 100% correct ... only an idiot would argue that .... I believe he's wrong about teams emulating NE's scheme to learn how to game plan him ... i said WRONG ... not that Vers was lying or making crap up .. i simply don't agree with his assessment that others "learned" from NE how to scheme for him ... I believe even the WORST D-coordinator ever would have figured that one out ...

I think u guys are splitting hairs over HOW teams figured out how to game plan for a CK quarterbacked Browns team last year ...