DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum OTA's and Mini Camp.

Hue said if he needed it, he could've pushed Coleman to be out there. He seems like th coach that will always be cautious with players with injuries.

Coleman needs the practice, he's about as raw as any.

But with Cleveland's history of being victimized by obscure rules, our luck is we score a TD, kick the extra point, but the refs take away the 6 points...

I think 1 point is wholly possible.

Browns' dominating defense is advanced schooling for the offense
2:49 PM ET

Tony Grossi
ESPN Cleveland


Editor's note: Tony Grossi covers the Cleveland Browns for ESPN 850 WKNR.
Takeaways from Browns minicamp Day 2 and player availability …

1. Defense dominating: On the first day of minicamp, Cody Kessler had three passes rejected at the line of scrimmage (two by Emmanuel Ogbah) and DeShone Kizer was intercepted when linebacker Jamie Collins read the play and blew up a tight end screen out of a bunch formation. These plays continued the inescapably dominant theme of this Browns offseason – the personality of the team will come from the defense.

At the end of a calisthenics drill before every practice unique to the defense – the so-called up-and-down drill, with the entire defense lined up across the field, jogging five yards and then hitting the ground in push-up position – the defense breaks with the voiced mantra of coordinator Gregg Williams: “Come get some!”

2. Learning, not competing: To some degree, this is why the quarterback competition hasn’t really begun. This offseason has been about learning more than competing. Part of that education is adapting to a multi-faceted, unpredictable defense Williams presents from play to play. “It’s all learning,” Kessler said. “Obviously, you don’t want that to happen as a quarterback. But our defensive line has been very physical. They’ve done a great job of creating turnovers, getting tipped passes all OTAs and minicamp. And it’s been great.

It helps you as a quarterback to find throwing lanes and do different things, have to throw around guys. They can’t hit us in the [pass] rush, but they’re doing a great job of sitting back and jumping. It helps. As a quarterback, you go back and watch it and say, ‘Maybe I have to change my arm angle.’ A guy I’ve watched do that is Drew Brees. Our defense played great yesterday – tipped passes, interceptions. As an offense, you take from it that I’ve got to learn from this and come back and prove it.”


3. Rookie education: Everything is a learning experience to Kizer, the rookie, but he, too, is benefitting from an advanced class of defense the likes of which he never saw in two years at Notre Dame. “Coach Williams is a guy who’s so multi-faceted on defense, coming up with a bunch of different looks in a bunch of different situations,” Kizer said. “Right when you get comfortable, he throws something new at you.

Every day there’s something new. I think that’s going to be one of the biggest assets for me moving into the season -- to see all these different looks. Right when you think you have him, he’s going to throw something completely different at you. And the way that we respond to that allows me to understand how our offense is schematically. I get to see the roots, so that when I do start game-planning for teams I understand beforehand what could potentially be that game-plan.”

4. Brock would know: If any of the quarterbacks should have a gauge on the authenticity of the new-look Browns’ defense, it should be Brock Osweiler. He has been the quarterback on the teams with the top overall defense the last two years – Denver in 2015 and Houston in 2016.

“I think what Coach Williams and the defense are doing is fantastic,” Osweiler said. “The one thing they bring is an attitude. And they bring it every single day. The whole defense flies to the ball, they’re causing turnovers. Offensively, we need to clean that up. But what we see as an offense, they’re just playing fast, they’re physical, they’re tough, they have an edge to them, and it’s really exciting to see.”


5. Wasted energy?: How can we really tell at this stage if it’s a strong defense or a really weak offense? So I asked Osweiler if accomplished units like the Broncos and Texans practiced with such robust intensity in the month of June or if this is just wasted energy being exerted by the showboating Williams. He had a great answer.

“You know, what I would say as far as my past experiences, the great teams always compete,” Osweiler said. “It doesn’t matter what the month is, what the day is. They always compete and they push each other defensively and offensively. There’s never a wasted day. That’s what I see in our defense.” espn

True enough, but then that is the D. I'd like my O to at least chip in a field-goal!;)

Agreed. And I was just giving you a hard time. I posted from my phone and haven't figured out how to do the smiley face from my phone.

Interesting (potential) fact.
I say potential fact because I am not sure this is accurate.
I posted the link to a NY Times article, but if anyone can confirm that would be appreciated.

While there is no way to win with 1 point, there is now a way to lose with one point.

Apparently, with the moving of the extra point back to the 15, they added another rule. If on the extra point attempt, if what would normally be a safety occurs, then one point is awarded.

Example, if team A scores a TD and in the process it is blocked, recovered by the defense who runs around and ends up retreating into the endzone where they are tackled. That would result in 1 point.

So you can lose 6-1 but cannot win 1-0
Weird huh?


https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/sport...sible.html?_r=0

You can actually score 1 point now? I mean a single point not attached to a TD.

I wonder if our offense is going to be historically bad this year?

I'd actually be ecstatic if Cleveland's offense develops an identity.

Right now they are betting on two TEs, a go route receiver, and possession guys. All the making of a WCO.

Are they signing Crowell to a long term contract? If they don't, how can they say we are a run team?

Last year we saw an offense playing catch up. Can we see some sign this year where they dictate something?

Geez man, I appreciate that you want to offer a balance to all the brown-coloured glasses crowd, but it can't be worse than last year.

Why not?

We lost our best receiver. We have no experience at TE. I think we got worse [at least for this upcoming year] at qb. We should have a better OL, but we lost our best RT and have no one who is proven at that position. The RG should be better, but I always thought Greco was one of very best linemen. The center should be better, but he has been injured more than not.

I see an offense that won't be explosive and have to earn every yard. They might have a drive or two a game, but you can't win that way. Much like last year. Especially if we roll w/Cody all year. At least RGIII opened up the running game.

The offense is going to be crushingly bad. Is there a worse offense on paper?

I don't know if there's a worse offence on paper.
What I do know is they don't play football games on paper.

Obviously we need the QB situation straightened out, but an improved o-line - wish we had of kept Pasztor though - should help. One key will be a 2nd year WR growing significantly. But as always, the biggest key is the quarterback.

Jets and niners come to mind off the bat.

And it would have been crushingly bad with Pryor as well.

I believe Cleveland had the honor of being the worst, inept, and crushingly bad offense each of the last ten OTAs and Mini-Camp. Of those last ten, Browns had the first pick only once.

This year there is more competition to be the worst too!

LOL............come on, bugs.

Each year at this time, many of you overrate how good we will be and complain about those of us who try to keep it real.

I'm trying very hard centering my emotions!! It's not easy! LOL!!!

I do like what Cleveland is doing. They did chose the toughest road to take first.

Some can only hope.

Sure seems that way 'peen.

It also seems ridiculously difficult for that play to occur. I described one scenario in the original post. But thinking about it, the most likely way for it to occur (IMO) would be that the kicking team would put a fast guy to be the holder. Then on the snap he runs 85 yards in the opposite direction to run the clock out, giving up 1 point in the process in exchange for not having to kick-off.

The only team I can see actually doing something like that would be the Patriots.
I bet you could get some pretty good odds in Vegas if you wanted to bet that the 1-point play would occur this season.

I may be mistaken but I think the clock does not run during extra point attempts

It doesn't. But I think jester was jesting.

I hear you and I get that's what fans do. I just hope y'all don't turn on Hue when reality sets in.

I don't want to turn on him, but I can't say I won't. Just depends on the situation. Just depends on how the O looks, the flow of games, etc.

I am not there yet, but I do have to admit there is this seed in the back of my mind that says Hue might be a little more talk than action.

I hope I can discard that idea early on before it starts to take root and grow..

Thanks for having my back. But I actually forgot that the clock stops during extra points. DOH! I'm usually better about stuff like that.

So then I can't think of any scenario other than my original that would lead to the use of this obscure rule.

Hue was a 2nd year head coach ... his stint in LA was only for a year i believe ...Hue has LOTS of room for growth ... he did a good job in some areas but needs to improve in others ...

One things for sure the players LOVE playing for him ... they'd run through a brick wall for him .. i could care less about that cause theres a lot of guys that LOVE playing for coaches for all the wrong reasons .. that doesn't seem to be the case with Hue ... he seems to be able walk that very very fine line where they LOVE him and RESPECT him ... he can teach them and point out their negatives in a way that the players know he's doing it with their best interest at heart .... hope i explained that right ...

That's GREAT ...

He's also put together a fine staff ... other GOOD coaches seem to gravitate to him .. Williams and Saunders come to mind ...

He REALLY needs to improve in a few areas ...

One other thing he did last year that I LOVED that I'm not sure anyone's ever talked about ... and I'm sure not many will agree with my take here ... but thats OK .. its happend once or twice before ... *L* ......

how he handled Pryor ... at the beginning of the year through about game 4 or so .. we'd run wild cat packages with Pryor (witch I loved as I drafted him on 3 of my 4 fantasy teams with my last pick .. ) ... and they were very affective for the most part ... they certainly didn't hurt us .. *L* ...

I kept saying .. let him learn how to play WR this year ... then u can throw in the wildcat stuff ... and after right around game 4 we saw no more TP in the wildcat ... it hurt me in fantasy and i ended up cutting him ... but IMO Hue did the absolute right thing ... it was a LEARNING year as opposed to a winning year .. and no ... I'm not saying we tanked .. but our priorities last year should have and were to let people learn and grow ..

I really liked that fact ... but that very well just may be me ...

Where theres plenty of room for improvement ..

- Time/Game mgmt. ... Lou Holtz cost us a national championship cause he didn't know how to handle the clock ... still hurts typing it 30 years later ... *L* .. last year .. Hue made Lou look like a frickin GENIUS when it comes to time mgmt. ... Hue cost us the Miami game IMO by taking a knee so our FG kicker could attempt a game winner from the same hash and same distance he had missed form twice all ready in that game ... AS BAD AS IT GETS ...

There's a bunch more time mgmt. stuff ... he needs some serious HELP here ...

- he quit RUNNING the ball ... i could care less about the why ... u can't just STOP RUNNING THE BALL even if u can't do it ... he took Crow out of the game as opposed to making the D do it ... he has admitted so himself ... u have to at least TRY ...

its not like our passing game was affective or scared anyone .. we had a revolving door at QB with a 3rd round rookie getting most of the starts and we had one viable WR/TE for the entire year and one that showed glimpses in 2 or maybe 3 games ... our best recievers were Duke and Crow after Pryor ...

It made no sense to me last year and i was glad to see Hue admit it .. lets see if its talk or he gets away from it again ...

I'm not so sure him being HC and OC isn't to much for him ... we'll see how that goes ... there were plenty of other questionable at best play calls ... they just made no sense to me .. like the game where RG3 was in street clothes ... CK was out for whatever reason ... he started the game ... Luke came in with his sore shoulder and Hue runs a QB option with his only QB all ready hurting ...

First off .. what world does running a QB option with Luke many any sense in ... 2nd .. if its your only healthy QB left for that game ... u prolly don't want to risk running him ..

- the way he handled CK in the Rats game and then in the press ... that was BRUTAL ... absolutely BRUTAL ... will get into that more when i post on CK ...

I'll give him a few more years as thats how long coaches deserve IMO ... I hope to see HUGE improvements in time/game mgmt. and in his blips of stupidity with play calls ...

I feel like u do Peen .. i really want to get on board but theres just something there to me that don't feel right .. like u I hope he SQUELCHES THE HELL OUT OF THAT ...

Here's the thing. Our offensive talent/experience is terrible. No one is going to win or score a lot of points w/such a poor offensive roster.

A lot of people don't want to admit that and keep talking about how good of a job the FO is doing. Well, I suppose that is fine and dandy, but when reality sets in and the offense doesn't perform well, many of you will blame Hue.

It won't be fair. It won't be right. But, it's what people do. And the Merry Go Round of Misery will keep spinning 'round and 'round.

Luke?

He meant Luke's brother, Josh.

I'll try to keep it fair. I have already said he needs at least this season and at least part of next season.

Maybe it's his ego, I don't know. He is called a QB whisperer, and he seems to buy in to that. He would be better off downplaying that.

At any rate, this isn't a call for Hue's head. It's just there is something there that I can't really put my finger on. We'll just see how it plays out.

JMO

Running the ball also protects QB's. You have to make D linemen and backers play the run first, or at least respect the fact you might run.

That slows the rush a smidge, but a smidge is many times the difference between a O-lineman getting beat off the edge and being able to get his feet set up a little behind his shoulders where he is in a good position to stonewall a pass rusher. If your feet are even with or in front of your shoulders, it's easy to get pushed back or to the side.

You're done when that happens.

Grossi: Boddy-Calhoun stood out in OTAs
The corner could be one to watch in his second season.

http://cle.247sports.com/Bolt/Grossi-Boddy-Calhoun-stood-out-in-OTAs-53185691

A year ago, Briean Boddy-Calhoun was a little known undrafted cornerback playing for the Jacksonville Jaguars.

After he was acquired by the Cleveland Browns on Sep. 4, he posted a 68.5 grade on Pro Football Focus, which rendered him the No. 71 ranked cornerback in the NFL.

During organized training activities and mini-camp, the media is limited to what they are able to see. ESPN Cleveland's Tony Grossi felt that Boddy-Calhoun was a standout during the periods he was able to watch.

An improved Boddy-Calhoun would be a big boost to the Browns secondary. The team added veteran Jason McCourty this off-season as well as fourth-round selection Howard Wilson. Wilson went down with an injury during OTAs. He may not be able to return this season. Others must step up in his absence.

Last season, the Minnesota product recorded 43 tackles, three interceptions and a sack. He took one of those interceptions to the house in the Sep. 25 game against the Miami Dolphins.

Browns notebook: D-line coach says Caleb Brantley fluctuates from looking like first-round talent to someone unworthy of playing

By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal sports writer

BEREA: Browns defensive line coach Clyde Simmons publicly issued a challenge Thursday to rookie defensive tackle Caleb Brantley: Play hard all the time if you want to be on the field.

Most analysts projected Brantley to become a second-round pick before a woman accused him of punching her in the face outside a bar just two weeks before the draft. The Browns drafted Brantley in the sixth round April 29, and the state attorney’s office in Gainesville, Fla., announced May 17 a misdemeanor battery complaint against the former University of Florida player been dismissed.
Several Browns fans labeled Brantley the steal of the draft when he was cleared, but Simmons isn’t satisfied with his pupil.
“Caleb is a unique personality and unique player,” Simmons, who played D-line in the NFL for 15 years and made two Pro Bowls, said after the third and final practice of mandatory minicamp. “He shows first-round talent at times and then he shows somebody who shouldn’t be playing at other times, and my job is to get him playing at a consistent level, a consistent high level.”
Is Brantley’s effort inconsistent?
“Effort, all the stuff,” Simmons replied. “He’s like every young player that comes in this league. They’ve got an idea about what they want and what they think they can do, but you have to learn to play it the way we want you to play it.”
Asked if it’s sinking in for Brantley, Simmons said, “Absolutely, it’s getting through. From the time he stepped in for minicamp until he stepped off the field today was night and day.”


On way back
Wide receivers coach Al Saunders revealed 2016 first-round pick Corey Coleman missed the final seven of nine organized team activity practices and all three mandatory minicamp practices because of a hamstring injury.
Coleman suffered the injury May 24 when he took an awkward fall while making a catch along the sideline.
“When he landed on the ball, I think it had something to do with his shoulder or something,” Saunders said. “And from what I understand, everything’s probably OK in that regard, and I think that Hue would tell you and everybody would tell you that the only reason he was kept out this last week was precautionary.
“He was having a terrific OTA session and then he got hurt. You’d always like to see a guy have the opportunity to improve and develop his skills. So it’s disappointing, but I’m sure that he’ll be back for training camp ready to go, and he’s just got to get his hamstring stronger and he’s got to get his self in shape and he’ll be ready to go.”
Coleman jogged through routes during walk-through periods in minicamp.


Motivated veteran
Earlier this offseason, two-time Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden told the tale of his first meeting with new Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. Haden explained Williams got in his face and told him if he hadn’t played through two groin injuries last season, the coach would have told the front office to cut him.
“I think I got his attention. That’s all it is,” Williams said. “There are lots of ways to go. Pat you on the back. That hasn’t worked here, so why would we be surprised that all of a sudden we have to do something different?
“My job is to effect change. If you can’t effect change, you have to do something else. He has been extremely focused. I don’t care how I did it. You should see how hard he’s worked in the weight room. That’s his idea. That’s not my idea. That’s great.”


Even swap?
The Browns signed Kenny Britt and let fellow receiver Terrelle Pryor get away in free agency.
They had similar production last season, but was it an even swap?
“[Britt is] probably a little more physical than Terrelle is, and Terrelle was learning how to play the position [last season after switching from quarterback],” Saunders said. “Kenny brings an experience level to us that we don’t have in that room.
“They’re both great to work with but Kenny’s just a different kind of a player, and we’ll see when we get into uniforms and playing against people how you would compare those two. But we’re going to miss Terrelle, and we’re glad to have Kenny here. It would be nice to have both of them.”
Saunders added this prediction about how Pryor will fare in Washington: “I would be shocked if he wasn’t in the Pro Bowl next year. I think he’s going to have that kind of year.”


Extra points
• Tight end David Njoku, a first-round pick (No. 29 overall), signed his four-year, $9.525 million rookie contract. Of the team’s 10 draft selections this year, only strong safety Jabrill Peppers, a first-round choice (No. 25), remains unsigned.

• Williams said Peppers and Calvin Pryor, acquired in a June 1 trade with the New York Jets, will play similar roles and could appear on the field at the same time because he features three safeties in some packages.

• Defensive backs coach DeWayne Walker said he thinks cornerback is the best position for free-agent acquisition Jason McCourty and all of his work with the Browns has been at corner so far. Williams said McCourty can play cornerback and free safety. “Not only can he do that, he’s a sharp dude and he has good leadership in his heart,” Williams said. “So he fits in.”

• Linebackers coach Blake Williams, Gregg’s son, said Tank Carder could start at middle linebacker. Carder has started just two games in his five NFL seasons, but he has practiced with the first-team defense since the Browns traded Demario Davis for Calvin Pryor. “We are comfortable with that. It is a competition. Nothing is by any means set.” The other candidates are Joe Schobert and Dominique Alexander.

• After practice, coach Hue Jackson held fun competitions between position groups. Linebacker Jamie Collins was the only player to throw a 20-yard pass into a throwing net, allowing the linebackers to defeat the running backs. The defensive linemen beat the offensive lineman in a punt-catching contest.

• The following players didn’t practice: Coleman, defensive end Myles Garrett (foot), cornerback Howard Wilson (fractured kneecap), center Austin Reiter, left tackle Joe Thomas and guard John Greco.

• Center JC Tretter and receiver Kenny Britt returned to practice.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns...laying-1.774683

Brantley is one of the laziest players I have ever watched. He better get that motor going or he will be out of a job.

I find it interesting that they would consider played Alexander at Mike. I would move Collins inside and play Alexander at the Will and Kirksey at the Sam if we went w/those three. Perhaps Carder has the edge because they really want to keep Collins and Kirksey on the outside????

Browns won't update condition of Myles Garrett foot injury or confirm positive report

Editor's note: Tony Grossi covers the Cleveland Browns for ESPN 850 WKNR.


Takeaways from Browns minicamp Day 3 and player availability …

1. No Myles to go: The Browns declined to give an update on the condition of top pick Myles Garrett, other than to say through a spokesman that his foot injury was still being evaluated. Garrett injured his left foot near the end of Wednesday’s practice when it appeared to give out without contact while rushing passer Brock Osweiler. Garrett did not need assistance leaving the field, but limped noticeably. Garrett was absent when the team held an abbreviated practice to conclude its three-day minicamp and offseason program on Thursday. Later in the day, Ian Rapoport of NFL Network tweeted that Garrett is “fine,” via an unnamed source, but the Browns would not confirm it. Coach Hue Jackson was not available to media, as it was pre-scheduled for assistant coaches to share the podiums. The first question to defensive coordinator Gregg Williams was if he had an update on Garrett. “No, I don’t do that. That’s the head coach,” he said. In a generic comment on Garrett’s overall progress prior to the injury, Williams said, “He’s done a great job. It’s still way early. You guys are gonna see a pretty good football player when he gets a chance to get out there and go. I’ll just wait and let him show everybody before I talk about it.”

2. Safety numbers: What will be the specific roles of rookie Jabrill Peppers and newly acquired Calvin Pryor, who appear to share similar skill sets? Williams indicated that both could play on the field together, with a free safety joining them. “Right now, we play with multiple safeties,” Williams said. “I’ve done that for, gosh, almost 20 years in the league now and other people are copying that. They’re playing similar, but I’m not saying the same. We’ll get as many good players in packages as needed. If it means playing only one linebacker, I’ll play one linebacker. Wherever I’ve been, we’ve played with lots of DBs because the league has become a one-back throwing league. Wherever I’ve been people don’t really want to get lined up in two-back offenses and try to run it against us because we’ll load up and outnumber you that way. You got to get bigger if they’re bigger, you got to get littler if they’re littler, and you still gotta be fast. They’ll be playing similar things, but there’s nothing clear-cut yet.”

3. Collins everywhere: On that note, Williams pointed out that everybody on his defense is required to play two positions as a means of the coaches patching up injury situations on the run. This led to a discussion about the wondrous athletic talents of 6-3, 250-pound linebacker Jamie Collins, who is the most reticent interview on the team. “He’s gonna be mad about me telling you this,” Williams said. “He is very intelligent. He was a high school quarterback and would have liked to play quarterback in college. He’s begging me to play free safety, and I’m not saying he couldn’t be the best one out there right now. He could play defensive end. There’s lots of things about his versatility that … it’s gonna be fun and challenging to find spots to cut him loose and let him go.”

4. Brownie bits: Safeties coach Jerod Kruse on Peppers: “Just my own opinion. He’s one of the best overall football players I saw in this year’s draft.” … On the subject of DeShone Kizer’s progress, quarterbacks coach David Lee said that on his first day on the field, “he couldn’t call a play in the huddle,” but he mastered that by the third practice. “He’s a long way from being ready. But he’s climbing it, making progress,” Lee said … Receivers coach Al Saunders confirmed the biggest thing keeping Corey Coleman off the field in minicamp was a recurrent hamstring problem. “I’m disappointed for him that he can’t continue to grow in the fundamentals and skills of his position,” Saunders said. “He was having a terrific OTA session, then he got hurt. I’m sure he’ll be back for training camp ready to go. Just got to get his hamstring stronger and himself in shape and he’ll be good to go.”

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/...positive-report

Hopefully the above quote is true.

I'm not getting a good vibe off of this situation. Damn, Garrett is the first guy we have taken in round one that I totally agreed with since Joe Thomas and this news is rather troubling for me.




That is a pretty strong statement. It would be great if he could become a dominant player for us.



I wonder if this will enough proof for a certain someone?

I'm on board with that post, mac...

Why would he if it wasn't? It would just make him look stupid.


My feeling is if he looks like a 1st rounder some of the time, he probably makes the team. Just have to motivate him to look like a 1st rounder more of the time.

Why is Peppers not signed yet?

Why is Tank Carder being hyped up by the LB coach?