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Using that logic is discrimination to the individual. I want to set my house up as a corporation and pay taxes on profits, not income.


Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: Swish
we should be going forward, not backwards.



Yes forward, away from socialism and on to more of a free market economy!


What about those 23 million that will get uninsured by the senate idea?

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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Kinda shows us how messed up those Liberal Judges are when the Supremes overturn your wrong headed thinking unanimously!

Except when the Supremes rule against conservatives, then they are traitor activists creating law from the bench....


That right there is wrong headed thinking.
When they legislate from the bench they are wrong.
When they legislate from the Constitution they are right.

Has nothing to do with Conservative vs Liberal although it is usually the Liberals who legislate from the bench.

I 100% agree with you in principle.. but I've watched conservatives for decades and the way it works is..

When they agree with us, they are upholding the constitution.
When they disagree with us, they are legislating from the bench.

Maybe so, but the 9th Circuit ruling the original travel ban to be unconstitutional was particularly egregious.

Quote:
(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

There are just not that many ways to interpret that (I count one), and to override the President like that on a matter of national security is infuriating. I'm glad the Supreme Court agrees... 9-0 for that matter.

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: Swish
we should be going forward, not backwards.



Yes forward, away from socialism and on to more of a free market economy!


What about those 23 million that will get uninsured by the senate idea?


Fake News. The CBO screwed up on their numbers. More to come.

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#40sAlternativeReality

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Error in CBO Report Hurts Debate Over Healthcare Reform

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapotheca...m/#6fa4646e3774

Facts.

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The main crux is Trump isn't enforcing the mandate, and this mandate basically ensured that insurance companies would give decently priced healthcare. However, insurance cares more about raw profits than the actual welfare of human individuals.

This guy's argument rests solely on "Well, Trump isn't going to enforce the mandate so it can't be 23 million!"

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Insurance companies are not charities.
They can help no one if they are Bankrupt.

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Quote:
The main crux is Trump isn't enforcing the mandate, and this mandate basically ensured that insurance companies would give decently priced healthcare. However, insurance cares more about raw profits than the actual welfare of human individuals.


Holy crap something else we can agree on thumbsup


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Insurance companies are not charities.
They can help no one if they are Bankrupt.



Gripes About Obamacare Aside, Health Insurers Are in a Profit Spiral
Jeff Sommer

STRATEGIES MARCH 18, 2017
Credit Minh Uong/The New York Times
Over the last few years, big managed care companies like UnitedHealth Group have contributed to the furor over the fate of the Affordable Care Act by saying that important parts of it are fundamentally flawed.

But Obamacare hasn’t been a curse for the managed care companies. Over all, based on their share performance, it has been something of a blessing.

Since March 2010, when the Affordable Care Act was signed into law, the managed care companies within the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index — UnitedHealth, Aetna, Anthem, Cigna, Humana and Centene — have risen far more than the overall stock index. This is no small matter: The stock market soared during that period.

The numbers are astonishing. The Standard & Poor’s stock index returned 135.6 percent in those seven years through Thursday, a performance that we may not see again in our lifetimes. But the managed care stocks, as a whole, have gained nearly 300 percent including dividends, according to calculations by Bespoke Investment Group.

UnitedHealth, the biggest of the managed care companies, with a market capitalization that is now more than $160 billion, returned 480 percent, dividends included. An investment of $100 in the company’s stock when Obamacare was signed into law would be worth more than $580.50 today.

“If Obamacare has been bad for the managed care stocks, why have they performed so well under it?” asked Paul Hickey, a founder of Bespoke Investment Group. “And do they really need to be rescued by Congress?”

The answers are complex but boil down to this: Basically, several analysts on Wall Street and in Washington said, the underlying businesses of the big managed care companies have actually done extremely well under Obamacare. They have run into some problems but are hardly in need of a rescue.

The companies have notched profits — from expansion of Medicaid, for example, and from services aimed at cutting medical costs — while learning how to insulate themselves from parts of the law that have crimped their income. They have diversified, earning money from businesses that include data management, outpatient clinics and surgical services, as well as traditional health insurance.

“The successful managed care companies, and UnitedHealth in particular, have figured out how to prosper in almost any environment — and to insulate themselves from issues that become a problem,” said Gary Claxton, director of the health care marketplace project for the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to health care policy. “They are making a lot of money from government programs like Medicaid and Medicare — and they are likely to keep doing so,” he said, regardless of what happens in Washington.

UnitedHealth, the industry bellwether, has reduced its exposure to what was its biggest problem in Obamacare: money-losing insurance that it sold in public exchanges to individuals, who often received government subsidies.

Last April, it announced that in the face of mounting losses from individual policies sold in public exchanges under Obamacare, it would radically cut its participation in those markets. It disclosed in its annual report in January that in 2017 the company “will participate in individual public exchanges in three states, a reduction from 34 states in 2016.” It also said that it would shed more than $4 billion in revenue from them, in an effort to cut its losses.

With those kinds of problems, you might think that the stock market has looked with disfavor at UnitedHealth and its competitors, and that investors have been counting on Congress to repeal Obamacare and replace it within something more palatable for the insurers.

But that assumption, which I made before looking at the performance of the companies’ shares, couldn’t be further from the truth.

UnitedHealth has bolstered its position, first by abandoning those profit-sapping exchanges wholesale. That move may have troubled the stock market, because it may seem to suggest that the company was giving up on what had been an important growth opportunity.

But a second maneuver, an accounting one, helped its standing in financial markets immensely, said Sheryl Skolnick, director of United States equity research for Mizuho Securities. In November 2015, UnitedHealth made an adjustment on its balance sheet, setting aside an initial “premium deficiency reserve” of $200 million for expected losses in those marketplaces.

Those losses have cumulatively swelled to more than $1 billion, Ms. Skolnick said, but because they have been segregated in the company’s accounting, and because the company has been leaving those markets, investors have been able to easily assess the company’s value “entirely separately from the problems it’s had with the exchanges,” she said. Other managed care companies have made similar provisions.

Wall Street has rewarded companies like UnitedHealth for steadily increasing profits in other businesses, and generally hasn’t penalized them much for the public exchange losses, Ms. Skolnick said.

UnitedHealth’s share price, in other words, has been relatively unscathed by its problems with Obamacare public exchanges, even as its statements about the unprofitability of the exchanges made headlines and contributed to public perceptions that Obamacare is in deep trouble. (The Congressional Budget Office indicated Monday that some of these fears are overblown: The public exchange markets, it said, “would probably be stable in most areas under either current law or the legislation” to replace Obamacare in the House of Representatives.)

In Ms. Skolnick’s view, the Affordable Care Act could indeed use some modifications, but the fundamental problem with the public exchanges is one of “adverse selection,” in which relatively sick people have occupied an outsize part of those markets, making it difficult for insurance companies to come up with profitable pricing. But the root cause is that the “mandate,” the requirement that everyone buy health insurance, is too weak, she said, not too strong. The House legislation would make matters worse by imposing a surcharge for people who have let their insurance lapse. “I think that’s weaker,” she said.

There are plenty of good things in Obamacare for these companies. The expansion of Medicaid has been a boon for them, said Lance Wilkes, an analyst with Sanford C. Bernstein. “It’s not a high-margin business for the managed care companies, but it’s a steady one and it has been a growing one,” he said. The companies offer insurance to low-income residents in various states under Medicaid, he said, while Medicare plans for older people have also been a growth area.

Mr. Claxton of the Kaiser Family Foundation said, “As the baby boom population ages, people are leaving their workplace health care plans, which have been steady and profitable for the managed care companies but aren’t growing, and going on Medicare in big numbers, and companies like UnitedHealth see this as an opportunity.”

Direct government premiums from Medicaid and Medicare amount to 25 percent of UnitedHealth’s revenue, and the company is moving rapidly into other areas: In January, it announced the $2.3 billion purchase of Surgical Care Affiliates, an outpatient surgery chain, as part of an aggressive move to provide direct medical services.

Expanding portfolios of businesses and deft moves to stanch losses may be why the managed care companies have, for the most part, been favored by the stock market. (The industry has endured some thwarted mergers — between Aetna and Humana, and Anthem and Cigna — and continuing headaches from public exchanges.)

Paul D. Ryan, the speaker of the House of Representatives, has said repeatedly that Obamacare is in a “death spiral.” That’s a debatable proposition. But it seems irrefutable that the big managed care stocks are in a different kind of spiral — a profit spiral — that is twirling upward.

Correction: March 26, 2017
The Strategies column last Sunday,19 about how the stocks of managed care companies within the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index have fared since the Affordable Care Act was signed into law, misstated, at one point, the surname of a director of the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to health care policy. He is Gary Claxton, not Clarkson.
________________________________
The more I read and the more I come to understand.. it seems to me like Obama got a number of things right in his healthcare bill... but, like most democrats, he underestimated the greed in the market. He probably thought that insurance companies would be willing to take less profit when the government mandated them millions more clients, but alas they were not willing to do that... instead they just heaped big profits...

Just wanted to alleviate your fears about the poor health insurers going bankrupt... they are doing just fine. thumbsup

New York Times


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Trump administration moves to withdraw clean-water rule

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-adminis...--politics.html

yay for polluted water!!! go conservatives!!


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"Farmers and ranchers across this country are cheering,"

I like Farmers and Ranchers! I am happy for them. thumbsup

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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN

Just wanted to alleviate your fears about the poor health insurers going bankrupt... they are doing just fine. thumbsup


It is comforting to know those insurers are healthy and available to help us now. Thanks. thumbsup

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
"Farmers and ranchers across this country are cheering,"

I like Farmers and Ranchers! I am happy for them. thumbsup


Me too. The EPA granting itself power to regulate ponds, ditches and puddles and calling those waterways was an over reach of power. There is more to this story than the biased left yahoo is reporting.

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Originally Posted By: fishtheice
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
"Farmers and ranchers across this country are cheering,"

I like Farmers and Ranchers! I am happy for them. thumbsup


Me too. The EPA granting itself power to regulate ponds, ditches and puddles and calling those waterways was an over reach of power. There is more to this story than the biased left yahoo is reporting.


I remember when a Yahoo was some kind of idiot. Guess it still is. brownie

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You damned Yahoo! lmao


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
You damned Yahoo! lmao


He meant Yayhoo, he just didn't know how to spell it. And yes it fits him to a tee.

Quote:
Yayhoo
Originally used to describe a certain tribe of wild individuals found in Kentucky mountain regions. Daniel Boone once described them as a race of wild hairy giants, well known for bad behavior and violent or fiendish actions against early pioneer settlers. Term now often used to describe an individual who displays bad or antisocial behavior.

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SHAME

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SHAME

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
SHAME
Yes, at your age it is a SHAME that you can't spell.

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‘This is not okay’: Congresswomen blast Trump for attacking Mika Brzezinski’s appearance

https://www.yahoo.com/news/not-okay-cong...-154355317.html

conservative women are going hard in the paint on Trump right now.

i just don't get it. why would he say something like that?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Conservative women from both sides of the isle?

There are no conservatives on the Democrat side.

He said the thing so now he is responsible for it. We will see how it all works out.

Mountain out of a Mole Hill if you ask me. If I insult your looks does that mean I insult other peoples looks?
No. It was personal.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Conservative women from both sides of the isle?

There are no conservatives on the Democrat side.

He said the thing so now he is responsible for it. We will see how it all works out.

Mountain out of a Mole Hill if you ask me. If I insult your looks does that mean I insult other peoples looks?
No. It was personal.


who said anything about the dems?

there's conservative women, republican women right THERE blasting trump for his personal insults.

it's wrong and indefensible what trump said. it's not a mountain out of a mole hill. it's our damn PRESIDENT acting like a freaking child.

stop blowing this stuff off, this is NOT normal.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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You said conservative women and the article you posted said women from both sides of the isle.

I called you on it.

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So you're ignoring what Trump said because of "both sides of the aisle"?


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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
So you're ignoring what Trump said because of "both sides of the aisle"?


Why do you find this so confusing?

I had said, "He said the thing so now he is responsible for it. We will see how it all works out."

So how am I ignoring it? I have given my opinions on it.

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you realize that strengthens my point, right? that both sides are condemning the president's actions?

you're looking sad right now.


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I guess I just expect more than just shrugging your shoulders in response to that.


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What? You say something?

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It's just one more incident that proves that we have nothing more than an [censored] in the White House.


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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
What? You say something?


When there is no good argument for your support of the great cheeto, deflect... ~ the ostrich strategy.



This must be what a Trump rally feels like.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
‘This is not okay’: Congresswomen blast Trump for attacking Mika Brzezinski’s appearance

https://www.yahoo.com/news/not-okay-cong...-154355317.html

conservative women are going hard in the paint on Trump right now.

i just don't get it. why would he say something like that?


I think there must be bad news brewing. He does this to change the topic.

It's one of the things I dislike of him. There is just no logical rationale behind his stupid statement other than to get people to talk about his stupid statements.


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Trump administration sets new visa rules for travel-ban countries, report says

The Trump administration on Wednesday set new criteria for visa applicants from six mainly Muslim nations and all refugees that require a "close" family or business tie to the United States.

The move came after the Supreme Court partially restored President Trump's executive order, which was widely criticized as a ban on Muslims.

The new rules take effect at 8 p.m. ET on Thursday.

Visas that have already been approved will not be revoked, but instructions issued by the State Department say that new applicants from Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya, Iran and Yemen must prove a relationship with a parent, spouse, child, adult son or daughter, son-in-law, daughter-in-law or sibling already in the U.S. to be eligible.

The same requirement, with some exceptions, holds for would-be refugees from all nations who are still awaiting approval for admission to the U.S.
Read the full article at...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/...eport-says.html

I feel safer already! thumbsup

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#MakeAmericaParanoidAgain

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
#MakeAmericaParanoidAgain


I know. It must to suck to live in such fear all the time.
I can't imagine.


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HA!

What's to Fear?
Trump got this! thumbsup

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Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
#MakeAmericaParanoidAgain


I know. It must to suck to live in such fear all the time.
I can't imagine.


Weird. You live it. Everyday.

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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
#MakeAmericaParanoidAgain


I know. It must to suck to live in such fear all the time.
I can't imagine.


Weird. You live it. Everyday.


I guess on some level, yes. I live in fear of the president and his administration.
I live in fear of crippling debt brought on by an unforeseen medical situation and an administration that seems to have no regard for that.

Last edited by PortlandDawg; 06/29/17 03:59 PM.

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Sucks to be you.

I never lived in fear when O, or W, or any other president was president.

Certain times? Sure. 9-11, for example. Now, with NK. But live in fear? Daily? Nice life you have. And, you travel to show off your artwork. To California, to Michigan.

Eh, I don't think you live in fear.

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You're right. I do travel. Fear free flying. Hanging out in large groups with lots of diversity.
Then I come back to reality as a hospice nurse and see what the human body is capable of experiencing. And how it affects families financially. So daily I'm reminded of just how tenuous all our situations really are. How close any of us could be to bankruptcy.
So yup. It's on the back of my mind pretty regularly.
I'm thankful when my travels can remove me from the daily reminder.


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