DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 2017 Indians Thread #2

A rain-out story

Boston used to support two major league baseball teams.

The Boston Braves were the National League team. (Way before the Red Sox - for 80 years - until 1953)

In 1948 the Braves had one of the best 1-2 starters in history: Warren Spahn and Johnny Sain.



The rest of the team sucked.

They used to have a saying:

Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.



These two starters were enough to get the Braves to the World Series in 1948.

Sain started 39 games and Spahn started 36. More than half the team's games.

Remember how the outfield was the Indians biggest weakness last year?

If back in March you had told me that on July 1st:

1) Brantley was in good health, starting and hitting .300+ in left field
2) Chisenhall’s been playing right field and hitting .300+
3) Rookie center fielder Brad Zimmer has been spectacular on offense and defense,

I would have guessed the Indians were 25 games over .500.

July 1st and Tomlin still blows

My thoughts exactly.

Shaw is not much better. Seems like every time I turn on a game, he walks the bases loaded and gives up big hits.

That catch by Zimmer last night was a beauty. I think we found our CF

Anyone see Clint Frazier Debut? 2-4 and a homer

It definitely was. Very, very nice.

The hyperbole in this thread drips and drips. One of you must be Dan Gilbert, and I'm glad you don't run the Indians.

Could Johnny Cueto, Sonny Gray be on the move once the trade deadline approaches?

The trade deadline is only a month away, and several top-tier starting pitchers could be on the move.

Michael Beller
SI.com
Tuesday June 20th, 2017


There are just fewer than six weeks of unrestrained access to the trade market available to GMs across the league. The July 31 non-waiver trade deadline is not yet in view on the horizon, but that won’t stop contenders from getting active, looking for the players who could push them over the hump this season.

The starting pitcher market is beginning to come into focus. This will sharpen over the next few weeks as teams either remain in, or fall out of, the postseason chase and determine whether they are buyers or sellers. The contours of both leagues will help from those decisions, but a handful of teams are safely in one or the other camp.

Furthermore, contenders such as the Astros, Cubs and Yankees are known to covet an arm for the rotation, possibly a big one. The competition, in the form of packages driven by highly touted prospects, will be fierce for the best available pitchers. Complicating matters is the log-jammed postseason race in the AL, where every team but the White Sox and A’s are within three games of the second wild card, and the performance of many of the pitchers who would normally headline the trade market.

Below is a look at the starting pitchers who could be on the move by July 31, from most likely to least likely.


Jeff Samardzija, Giants

If there’s one team already guaranteed to sell, it’s the Giants. The team’s decade-long World Series window appears to be shutting, and even if it weren’t, they aren’t even within shouting distance of being within shouting distance of the postseason. With the Rockies, Dodgers and Diamondbacks making a run at history, it will be all but impossible for the Giants to even think about October this year. That, coupled with Samardzija’s first half, makes the righty the most likely pitcher to be traded this summer.

Forget about the 4.81 ERA. Samardzija owns a 1.18 WHIP and has fanned 104 batters, while walking just 13, in 91 2/3 innings this season. He’s a known commodity and a durable one, having thrown at least 203 1/3 innings in all of the last four seasons. There’s a lot of value in a pitcher like that, even if he doesn’t measure up to some of the other names on this list. Any team trading for Samardzija would be on the hook for another three seasons at $18 million per. That could complicate matters, but the bet here is that most prospective buyers won’t be scared off by the future price tag. Samardzija will be in his age-35 season in the final year of the deal, and while he might not be worth $18 million that season, the payoff on the front end could be worth it.


Jose Quintana, White Sox

If there’s a second team already guaranteed to sell, it would probably be the A’s, Padres or Phillies. However, none of those teams can offer a pitcher of Quintana’s caliber with as team-friendly a contract, and the White Sox are almost certain to be aggressive sellers, as well. Despite Quintana’s down season to this point, he has a great chance of being somewhere other than the South Side of Chicago by August 1.

First, the contract. Quintana, who is 28 years old, is owed $8.85 million next year. His team then holds options on him for 2019 and 2020, both at $10.5 million with $1 million buyouts. That’s peanuts for almost anyone by today’s MLB standards, let alone a left-handed starter in his physical prime with as good a history as Quintana. The White Sox asking price could reflect that, but, once on his new team, Quintana is eminently affordable.

The big holdup could be how he has pitched this year. Quintana was one of the most reliable pitchers over the last four years, throwing at least 200 innings every season while compiling a combined 3.35 ERA, 3.34 FIP and 1.22 WHIP. This season, however, he has pitched to a 5.07 ERA, 4.35 FIP and 1.37 WHIP in 81 2/3 innings. The affordability of his contract could actually help keep him in Chicago, should the White Sox not find a deal to their liking. They could just as easily trade him this offseason or before next year’s trade deadline, or, in another scenario, keep him at the top of a rotation that eventually includes Carlos Rodon, Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez and Michael Kopech. The odds remain strong, though, that a contender will meet the White Sox demands, especially with Quintana’s strong track record.


Sonny Gray, A’s

Gray is the most polarizing trade candidate among the group of likely available starting pitchers. On the one hand, he’s under team control for three more seasons, none of which is likely to tax a team’s finances too significantly. He has two great seasons to his name, during which he combined for a 2.91 ERA, 3.46 FIP and 1.14 WHIP with 352 strikeouts in 472 innings. Gray has put together some truly great seasons, including a top-three finish in the AL Cy Young race in 2015, and he’s in his age-27 season.

On the other hand, that version of Gray has been absent for two years. The present-day version has struggled mightily since the start of last season, compiling a 5.30 ERA, 4.25 FIP and 1.45 WHIP in 169 2/3 innings. He made just 22 starts last year, with neck and forearm issues, and was back on the shelf this year because of a shoulder strain. The last four years have been a mixed bag, to say the least.

And yet, Gray’s mix of team control, affordability, potential, and proven ability will make him a popular trade target this summer. The A’s have the worst record in the AL, and given their finances, it’s hard to envision Gray as part of a competitive A’s team at any point over the next three seasons. At that point, the team would risk losing him and getting nothing in return. That could spur Billy Beane to action over the next six weeks.


Johnny Cueto, Giants

Like Samardzija, Cueto will send plenty of GMs to their phone to call Bobby Evans over the next few weeks. Despite a higher ceiling and better reputation, though, Cueto could be a harder sell than Samardzija.

First and foremost, Cueto is in the midst of the worst season of his career. He has a 4.42 ERA, 4.43 FIP and 1.30 WHIP in 93 2/3 innings. All of those would be his worst marks since 2008, his rookie season. Cueto’s velocity is down across the board, and he hasn’t shown any signs recently of breaking out of his malaise.

Additionally, Cueto is owed more money over a longer period of time than Samardzija. Cueto’s contract runs through 2021 at $21 million per season. Even if his team declines its $22 million option in 2022, it will have to pay him a $5 million buyout. That’s $89 million over four years for a pitcher whose best days are certainly behind him, and will be 35 years old in the final guaranteed season of the contract. Still, Cueto’s track record will make him an attractive, and expensive, piece on the market.


Justin Verlander, Tigers

In a way, the Tigers are the Giants of the AL. After competing for the AL pennant for a decade (including two trips to the World Series and a run of four straight AL Central championships from 2011 to 2014), their window appears to be closing. If GM Al Avila acknowledges that fact, could he do the seemingly unthinkable and trade away Verlander, one of the faces of the franchise? It’s not as crazy as it seems.

Understand, there are hurdles to trading the 34-year-old, starting with his contract. He’s set to make $28 million in both of the next two seasons, and his $20 million option in 2020 would vest if he finishes in the top five in Cy Young voting the previous season. As good as Verlander has been, there aren’t too many teams that want to commit to paying $56 million over two years to a 35-year-old pitcher. The Tigers would almost certainly have to eat some of the money to make a deal happen.

Second is his performance this year. After nearly winning the Cy Young last season,Verlander has regressed in 2017. He sports a 4.50 ERA, 4.49 FIP and 1.49 WHIP with an unsightly 42 walks in 82 innings. Verlander’s velocity is in line with career norms, which is encouraging for a pitcher in his mid-30s, but the numbers speak for themselves. Add them to his contract, and moving him becomes an even taller task.

Then, there’s the standings. The Tigers have the third-worst record in the AL, but with the bunched-up nature of the junior circuit—the Rays and Twins are tied in second wild card position just one game over .500—they could easily be in the postseason hunt a month from now. That would make trading Verlander a harder sell to the fanbase. File this one under “unlikely, but possible.”


Gerrit Cole, Pirates

We’ve reached the “their teams would have to be blown away” portion of the proceedings. Last season looked like the beginning of the end of an abbreviated run of competitiveness for the Pirates because it was. This team still has some nice pieces—Cole, Starling Marte, Gregory Polanco—and can be back in the hunt in the near future. But if a team blew them away with an offer for Cole, would Neal Huntington absolutely hang up the phone? That is hard to believe.

Still, Huntington would have to be presented with quite the package for Cole to be anything other than a Pirate on August 1. The righty is in the midst of the worst season of his career, but he’s two years removed from a top-four Cy Young season, he’s 26 years old, and he’s under team control for three more years. Teams don’t trade guys like that, least of all teams that need to be cost-conscious. It might be a down year in Pittsburgh, but Cole should remain a Pirate.


Chris Archer, Rays

OK, one more just for fun. If the Rays made Archer available, he’d immediately be the most sought-after player on the market. Not only is he 28 years old and bordering on being a legitimate ace, but he also has one of the most team-friendly contracts in the sport. The Rays bought out his arbitration years and then some three years ago. As such, Archer is set to make a total of $33.75 million from 2018 through 2021, assuming his team exercises team options of $9 million and $11 million in 2020 and 2021, respectively. Both of those look like slam dunks at this point.

The problem, though, for any team daydreaming about adding Archer to the top of its rotation is the competitiveness of the Rays. They’re in pole position for one of the AL wild card spots right now, and figure to be in the mix all season long. Their offense is among the best in the league, ranking first in homers, eighth in runs, seventh in slugging percentage and sixth in fWAR. Archer leads a strong rotation that includes Jake Odorizzi and Alex Cobb, possible trade targets in their own right, which is sixth in the majors in ERA, ninth in FIP and 10th in fWAR. Would Erik Neander, in his first trade deadline on the job as Rays GM, really move his team’s best pitcher while it sits in contention for its first trip to the postseason 2013. That does not seem realistic.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/06/20/mlb-trade-rumors-starting-pitchers

Out of that list I like Jeff Samardzija the best. He is an innings eater that could be used to save Miller and Allen's arm for the post season.

I am also hoping that Danny Salazar can get healthy and pitch like he did last year before his injury.

logan just about gave it away....our pitching really has fallen off from last year

We still won the game 11-8, right?

Shaw, Allen, and Miller say hi.

We throw these guys in to give those three a rest. Your hyperbole is ridiculous.

no actually hyperbole is an exaggeration, our pitching being worse than this year is fact. Oh tell Shaw and Allen to go get stuffed, they are some of who i'm talking about... I will say Hi to Miller.. that dude is amazing

Yeah, i was just shocked when i read the score, i turned it off when it was 11-1, checked the box later and say 11-8. Sounded worse than i meant.

Wow, they scored 7 more points when I wasn't looking? What happened to the bull pen?

Points? ; )

I'd like Quintana. It would be good to have a lefty in the mix between Kluber and Carrasco, or maybe between Carrasco and Bauer, to break up the "RH power pitcher monotony". Gives the hitters a different look from a different slant. I doubt the White Sox would trade him inside the division, though.

I'm not counting on Salazar. I'm not an insider, but when Indians' network guys are talking about him having MRI's that reveal no problem, then I start thinking ... "head-case".

7 of them apparently!

He had an awful rehab start yesterday. It's such a shame as Salazar seemed to come into his own last season, but then fell off the cliff after the all star break.

In baseball, its runs, not points. Just like you never call Tito "Coach". In baseball, you address the manager as "Skipper" or "Skip". Or in our case, "Tito" works. No offense, just sayin'.

Jose is our first fan-voted starter since Juan Gonzalez in 2001.

He made up 411,000 votes in about 10 days. Thank you.

Thanks Dave!

Congratulations to the 5 who made it. All were very deserving. Brantley is truly amazing, coming back from major injury and picking up like he didn't miss a day.

Carrasco certainly deserved to be in as well.

Let’s see - Tribe is 44-37. After 81 games, eh... could be better, could be worse.

Wait a second, 81 games? That sounds familiar.

Multiply by 2, take the square root, derive the third integral, calculate the differential equation, take the inverse matrix, limit the lower bound vector, function the multivariate, project the spherical trigonometry, carry the 1, and as always, divide by zero.

162.

Hey, the season is exactly half over today.

The Indians are on pace for:

44 wins * 2 = 88 wins for the year.

We’re hoping for a little better. 92 wins should do it. (92-70)

Wow did the first half fly by.

By the end of the second half, the NFL season will be 1/3 over.

You know who isn't an All Star?

Jonathan Lucroy!

quote above by Rocket:

"You know who isn't an All Star?

Jonathan Lucroy!"

No kiddin'. He's got a total of 4 homers this year. In 200+ ABs.

That's $1,000,000+/homer.

Not sure if you mean comparable to the end of last season or just last season as a whole.

- At game 81 last year, we had given up 314 runs while scoring 390.
- At game 81 this year, we have given up 331 runs while scoring 390.

I guess you're right, we are giving up an additional 0.20987 runs per game compared to this time last year, although it is quite small.

By the end of last season, we went up to 4.20 R/G. So we actually got worse as the season went on. We'll see what happens the next few months.

3.87 July 3, 2016
4.08 July 3, 2017
4.20 Oct 2, 2016

Also, the 331 we've given up this season, it's 3rd in the league. We're doing okay.

Kluber does win AL Pitcher of the Month - June 2017.

His third Pitcher of the Month award.

Considering there's what, about 120+ pitchers in the AL, that's pretty good.

Kluber's a hands-down Ace.

The Indians did great during their toughest stretch of the year.

From June 13th to July 3rd they played 21 games over 20 days.

And finished 13-8. (.619)

That's a 100 win pace over an entire season.

man some horrible at bats so far tonight with RISP..it'd be 6-0 if they would just get some quality at bats

Bat hitting, bad fielding, and bad base running.

Equals a bad 1 run loss.

Boy it sucked losing to a hoser like Cahill.

Geez, it's like the sports gods are:

"Hey, the Indians aren't bad this year. I know, let's have them get shut-out at home in front of sold-out crowds."

Yesterday was the 4th time the Tribe has been shut-out at home this year.

I have a theory.

I think the Cleveland hitters are psyched out by the sold-out expectant home crowds. That they're pressing too much.

If you handed a blind man a bat and assisted him to the batter's box and told him when to swing he'd out hit Roberto Perez.

Get well, Tito!


Terry Francona still in hospital, undergoing tests; unclear if he can manage All-Star Game

July 5, 2017; 6:21 PM ET
Associated Press

CLEVELAND -- Indians manager Terry Francona will miss at least a few more games as doctors try to pinpoint his medical issues.

Francona remains at the Cleveland Clinic, undergoing tests to determine what has increased his heart rate and made him light-headed at times during the past month.

Francona, 58, was admitted to the hospital Tuesday and will miss Wednesday's game against the San Diego Padres.

At this point, it's unclear when he'll be discharged or if he'll be able to manage the American League All-Star team next week.

Team president Chris Antonetti said Francona will be out for "at least a couple more days" and that it's possible he could be sidelined for the remainder of Cleveland's homestand before next week's All-Star break. Antonetti said Francona has undergone tests and doctors are working toward a diagnosis.

"It's just at this point narrowing down what is the specific thing causing the symptoms and how do they correct that," Antonetti said. "And all of the doctors are very confident they will be able to do that and figure that out in the near term."

Antonetti and general manager Mike Chernoff visited Francona on Wednesday.

"We talked about a wide variety of issues, from different trade conversations we're having and things going on with the team, so he's actively engaged and actively itching to get back," Antonetti said.

"But as I've shared with him, the most important thing for all of us is his health, his long-term health, and we want to make sure we get him back healthy and ready to lead us the rest of the way."

This is Francona's third hospital stay in the past month. He has been wearing a heart monitor so doctors can better evaluate him on a daily basis.

Francona is currently scheduled to manage the AL team in Miami. Cleveland's entire staff will be at the All-Star Game, the reward for the Indians winning the pennant last season.

Antonetti said it's premature to say if Francona will be able to accompany his coaches and five Indians players to the event.

"We haven't made any sort of decisions or determinations on that," he said. "I think we want to take it one step at a time. The first part of that is finishing this first round of tests and letting the doctors narrow down the focus of what might be causing it and get that corrected. We'll reassess things after that point."

Following the break, the Indians open a six-game trip in Oakland.

Francona was forced to leave Cleveland's June 26 game against Texas after feeling dizzy and experiencing a rapid heart rate. He had similar symptoms on June 13 during a game against the Los Angeles Dodgers. Following both episodes, Francona underwent an array of tests, and doctors ruled out major health problems.

Antonetti said Francona has not experienced any new symptoms, but he would not address any specifics about the popular manager's health. He said the team has not discussed the possibility of Francona taking a long leave of absence.

"If at some point, that's what's necessary, we would discuss it," he said. "But at this point, that's not something we expect."

Not surprisingly, Francona is eager to return to the Indians and Antonetti described him as a "humorous" patient.

"He keeps everybody entertained," Antonetti said. "He loves what he does. He's very passionate about the organization and very passionate about baseball and loves being in the dugout and he's itching to get back. If it were left to him, he'd be back in the dugout."

Antonetti said he exchanged text messages with Francona during Tuesday night's 1-0 loss.

Francona underwent hip replacement surgery last winter. He has had periodic health issues, including chest pains last season that forced him to miss one game.

While Francona is out, bench coach Brad Mills is handling managerial duties.

Francona is in his fifth season with Cleveland. He previously managed in Boston, leading the Red Sox to World Series titles in 2004 and 2007. He also managed in Philadelphia.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/19844...ndergoing-tests

This is very bad news about Francona.

I obviously hope for his speedy and full recovery, but I'm not even cautiously optimist.

This sucks, I guess the Indians were getting too good.

Oh my God!

I just realized.

Tomorrow’s Sugardale Dollar Dog Night.

$1 per dog.



Dollar Dog Night comes around so quick.

Indians Twitter strikes again:

https://www.letsgotribe.com/2017/7/6/159...-broad-daylight