DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' about winning 7 games ... really? -- Terry Pluto

I think we are in agreement on the premise of this issue.

The only thing I see differently is this take:



I'm not seeing much that way on this board. Doesn't make me right...just my take.

Focus on yourself rather than others.

I won't say its out of the possibilities. A lot of things would have to line up for us to do decently next year.

Garret will have to be as advertised and be very good pass rusher
our rookies from last year will ahve had to develop
Osweiler will have to go back to his 2015 Denver form
Our WR core will have to step up big time
We need to be effective running the ball

A lot of our secondary issues would be fixed with a solid pass rush and good run defense. your secondary is only as good as your pass rush...all those Db you see in the hall of fame, all of them had solid front 7 and pass rush...even Dixon and Minnifield had a great pass rush...

Kessler is not the answer though in any shape or form. He is a 3rd string Qb in the NFL at best....The guy is simply not very good...he lacks the physical talent.

Osweiler has the physical tools, just can he mentally do the job is the question.

No doubt Kizer has the physical tools, but he needs time to develop and learn the plays.

Really you either start the year with Kizer or you go with Osweiler...Kessler shouldn't even be considered unless your ok with losing...he isn't an NFL QB no matter how much folks want him to be. He is a good kid, as a person I like Kessler. I just don't see him as a viable NFL starting QB. it is what it is.

I also don't want to see Jackson fired under any circumstances until he has had 4 full seasons to work here...we have to give the guy a fair shot at developing a roster that can compete, and 2-3 years is simply not enough time to do that in our situation.

Exactly. Three drives by CK that game...the 1st and 3rd drives ended on 3rd down when the defender got into the backfield before Kessler did. The 2nd drive was arguably the best offensive drive of the year...NE had no answer for anything during that drive. That particular drive - against the eventual Super Bowl champs - showed me enough from a 3rd Rd rookie (shoved into the fire) to have some patience and see what the kid is really all about.

Then...Clipboard Jesus came in...until HE too got injured via the sieve that was our OL.

There is no doubt that teams knew the Browns OL was awful...especially up the gut. Teams disrespected the pass regardless of who we had at QB. This fable about BB being a genius because he alone figured out how to stop an eventual 1-15 team (with a rookie 3rd Rd QB) is one poster desperately trying to be viewed as being correct. Watch the NE game...it's an incredibly small sample that shows NOTHING about BB creating some run-stopping epiphany. (BB is a genius...but not due to seeing some strategy to stop the juggernaut Browns offense that no other team could figure out.) That game ended on the 3rd drive when Alvin Bailey decided not to block the man standing right over him.

That same poster has actually stated that defenses respected the pass better when RG3 was at the helm because RG3 could make those "downfield/across-the-field" throws. And he didn't use purple. RG3...you know...the guy now out of football...again...with Alvin Bailey...a starting G against NE.

I'm interested to see how/if Kessler improves...I don't think he will ever be "special"...but he could be the best QB on the team come September. I have said it before and will say it again...I expect the Browns to draft a QB in Rd1 next year regardless of the performance of any QB currently on the team.

You are talking about results and I am talking about game plans.

I've posted articles about New England's game plan and why they did it. Hue has addressed the issue, as well. Is he telling a fable? LOL

There are a couple of posters who don't want me to tell what really happened, but that won't stop me from telling the truth.

Hue addressed the issue of how NE figured out how to stop his mighty offense? Got a link for that one? You are conveniently trying to mesh issues together (again) to cloud the debate so as to twist your truth out of it.

Hue addressed CK not throwing "downfield". Everyone who knows or watches football could see what Hue was talking about. No one on this board is denying that. Some believe CK was not alone as the culprit. Some believe the circumstances contributed to him not throwing the ball "downfield". You want to blame CK for defenses selling out to stop the run when they stymied your boy RG3 and McCown as well. Newsflash! We were bad in a lot of areas of our offense.

The fable is in trying to claim that something happened in the NE game that simply did not. They won the Super Bowl and we won one game. BB could have strategically decided to use 9 defenders against Clipboard Jesus and still would have stopped the Browns. CK had one awesome TD drive out of three attempts - that's a truth for you. BB didn't come up with some magical scheme against the Browns that other NFL teams couldn't figure out. That's your claim and your fable.

The truth is that you have so much invested in CK's failure that you will hate life if he is successful and will break your arm congratulating yourself if he sucks...even as that causes your favorite team to suck. The problem is...the only thing you will be "right" about is that he couldn't overcome his limitations. You will want to present yourself as some sort of savant that discovered his limitations...when everyone already knows what are the limitations.

Just so everyone knows........I don't reply to WSU's posts anymore because it always turns ugly. However, I am not a liar and I don't wish Cody ill-will. I could care less about being "right" and have repeatedly admitted the times when I have been wrong, which are many.

I do not like how guys like him have to constantly attack my character and those of you who have known me for a long, long time know that I am not a liar or resort to making things up to win some stupid argument on a message board. That's far different than some of us differing in our evaluations/opinions of the team. Disagreeing is fine, but the character attacks that guys like WSU resort to are not.

There you go again...I did not call you a liar or attack your character...just like others who disagree with you have also not called you a liar or attacked your character. Yet you whine on and on about not BEING a liar. No one says you are a liar...it's a message board for crying out loud. I also did NOT claim that you wish CK ill-will. That makes about 90% of your post irrelevant.

Your posts speak for themselves...people will form their opinions about you and your posts based on how they interpret what and how you type things. Your incessant need to preface your posts and to tell people what kind of a guy/poster you are says it all. Addressing the board to explain why you don't respond to someone is 8th grade cheerleader tryout drama wrapped up in focusing on others rather than yourself.

Do you not recognize that not ONE other poster on this board gets the heat that you do? And from so many different people? You think that EVERYONE ELSE is the aggressor and not YOU? Remarkable.

16-0

j/c:

I believe that Cody Kessler's lack of arm strength/refusal to challenge defenses led to NE formulating a game plan that had two priorities:

1. Stop the run
2. Bracket T. Pryor w/2 men.

I have posted that article 3 times.

I believe that other teams started using a similar plan as NE did after that game. Was that a coincidence? I don't know. Does anyone? I do know the Browns went from 1st in rushing to becoming a team who fell down the stat list fairly quickly. I believe one can find stats to support that claim if they choose to do the research.

I believe that Hue has been quoted as addressing that Cody needed to take what was being given to him and he wanted him to challenge defenses more. I believe that article has been posted several times.

I believe I know quite a bit about football. I also believe I can recognize defenses. I believe I can recognize when teams are committed to stopping the run game and one-half of the field and challenging a qb to beat them deep or by making throws across the field.

I believe that Cody had a knock of not being a good down-the-field thrower in college. I believe there are multiple scouting reports that address that issue if one wants to search for them.

I believe that Cody is a shorter qb. I also believe that if one wants to find his height, they can probably do so.

I believe that I am trying to talk football. I also believe that at least one other poster is trying to make this a personal contest.

I can't disagree with a word you just said.

In the NFL you MUST have an arm capable of challenging a defense if you want to be an NFL QB, and Kessler simply doesn't have that arm, and hasn't shown he has that kinda arm.

usually if you don't have that kinda arm by your last year of college, chances are your simply never going to have that kinda arm. This is not say Kessler can't be a good backup, because I think he does have a place as a backup. I think he could be fine as that guy to fill in or a game or two in case of injury, but I don't see him as a viable longterm QB.



this throw Osweiler makes to Jaleen Strong in overtime that sealed the win over the Colts shows you that Osweiler DOES have the arm to challenge NFL defense. Kessler doesn't have that kinda arm.

Honestly, the best case for the Browns is Osweiler starts the year. Hopefully Osweiler can play well enough that Kizer gets to sit for a year. As long as we are in contention or close to .500 you keep Osweiler in...no need to rush Kizer....a red shirt year would be the best thing for Kizer.

Kizer def has franchise QB type of talent...he just needs a little time to grow. Its my hope that Osweiler can play well enough to buy him that time.

Or Brock plays well enough that Kiser becomes our Garoppolo.

I like the coach on the field, but it can work the other way just fine.

I am sure that Williams has guys up in the booth to see what the other team does. I am also sure he views tape on the upcomming opponent.

That same NE defense couldn't stop Kessler on the second drive of the game. He marched the team down the field like a vet QB in answer to NE's second TD of the game. He completed passes to four different receivers on that drive...one being to Pryor. Maybe BB didn't run that defense on that drive?

Kessler was on the field for six plays outside the TD drive. Six. On two of those plays, the Alvin Bailey wind tunnel let an untouched defender race into the backfield to crush Kessler.

That leaves four plays where BB's vaunted, ingenious scheme stymied the juggernaut Browns offense. Four plays. On play # six, Kessler was knocked out of the game.

So in a matter of four plays...BB showed the league how to stop the Browns. Ok. Could be. BTW...the Browns scored their TD on the TENTH play of that drive.

So you're using one drive to excuse what we saw N.E. and the rest of our opponents use for the entire season? We scored a whopping 13 points. Woo Hoo!

One TD in the first quarter and one in the fourth quarter. Yeah, we crushed that D!

I don't know that this really qualifies as a game plan for Kessler as much as it was a game plan for our team/roster/abilities.
It's classic Belichick - take what a team does well away from them.

Up to that point of the season, we were running the ball well and we had Pryor as our best WR. Of course those are the things he'd focus on taking away because when you take away the things a team does best, you leave them with nothing but weaker options that generally are nowhere near as effective.

If anything, what Belichick showed the league was how to stop our run game, which got immensely easier once the line was hit by some injuries and Hue stopped calling as many run plays. Blow up the middle of our line on D, and put up points on us on O - get ahead and force us into passing a lot. No other receivers were stepping up, Coleman was out - we were depleted. Without the run game to keep us afloat and in it, we had no answer.

It wasn't rocket surgery.

What? No unicorns?

My debate with Vers is in regards to his claim that NE figured out a brilliant scheme to stop Kessler by doing what they did. My point is that NE didn't invent something special or magically see something that no one else saw. Anyone with any knowledge of the game could see how to stop us. We lost four straight before NE and all four meaningless pre-season games.

My other point is that teams schemed the same way when the "stronger armed" QBs were in the game. The scheme was the same for all QBs - not just Kessler with a weaker arm.

I'm going to use one ten-play TD drive in a game - out of three drives led by Kessler - as long as Vers is going to use four plays as becoming the barometer of stopping our Kessler-led offense.