DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Patriots and Garoppolo

I don't think that a quality qb like Cousins would ever think about coming to Cleveland to play for this franchise. If JG reaches FA, I don't think he will, either.

If we want one of those guys [and I have no idea if we do or don't] we will have to trade for them.

I dunno. Guys seem to like to play for Hue Jackson. If we can show some improvement and show some hope, we might get someone like Cousins. He is a midwest kid after-all

I think that Cleveland's history of ineptness would be a huge turn-off for a guy w/a ton of options. And if it's about the coaches, I'd say he would reunite w/Shanny before choosing Hue.

Yeah, you're probably right. Especially at QB where teh position depends so much on the rest of the team as well. We'd have to be a really good sell to get a high quality FA QB.


But as we improve, things should get better. Especially with a guy like Hue that players seem to love to play for

We are building a (potentially) high quality team.

Let's assume that the defense starts to pan out, maybe still in need of a starting CB. Let's further assume that we prove capable of running the ball, and protecting the QB ..... and that our TE room proves to be capable.

We have 5 picks in the top 2 rounds next year. We say to a QB, come here and we'll go get the best WR available in free agency. They we will go get the best WR, FS, and CB available in the draft. (if there are such players worthy of those spots in the draft)

We could be on the way to having a high quality team, only right now one that lacks a few key pieces. We have the cap room, and the draft assets, to really take a huge step forward over the next year, and especially next year.

I am really interested to see how units on the team develop this year; run game, run defense, passing game, passing defense, special teams, as well as the individual personnel groups.

That's nice, but I still say no way he would sign w/the Browns.

We do have the most money in the NFL and we are obligated by the rules to spend a lot of it.

I just believe that if a player has a choice and can make equal money in a better situation, he would go elsewhere.

So if what you're suggesting is that we pay well over what other teams offer to land such a QB, you may well be right.

You probably right, for the reasons you state. I do wonder at this point how interested the FO will be in either one. JG (and his agent) will have an inflated opinion of his worth on the open market, and Cousins will likely be going for max dollars (biggest contract to a QB yet, which he'll probably get) wherever he goes. If the decisions where mine, I'd hold with Kizer and keep the draft next year in my back pocket before I'd consider dropping max money on either of those guys. I imagine they will inquire, enter discussions, etc, but I doubt they pull the trigger even if either QB are willing to come here. JMHO.

IMO the best thing for us to do, or any franchise for that matter, is develop our own guy. DK has all the tools but needs a lot of coaching and has much learning to do. I feel we have the right coaches in place with Hue and Al Saunders. Let's give him the time he needs and work him in slowly. If we do we may finally have our franchise QB.

As it relates to QB contracts. And I guess contracts in general.

At what point does "inflation" stop?

There has to be a point right?

Why does the "next guy" always get more?

The salary cap increases every year. As such, the contracts increase every year. The QB position itself has gotten crazy. Teams are so desperate they are overpaying unproven commodities. It's like everything else. Supply and demand set the market.

An anonymous AFC scout believes the Patriots are serious about keeping Jimmy Garoppolo.

"I know teams called about Garoppolo," the scout said. "I don't believe they were ever given a realistic price. Why? To me, the answer is simple: Bill (Belichick) thinks he's got the next great one." This sentiment was echoed by other scouts, an AFC front office executive and a former Patriots player. The Patriots' handling of Garoppolo has been baffling in the context of Tom Brady's recent play, but makes much more sense if the Pats believe Brady has only 1-2 years remaining. Absent a long-term extension, the Pats would have to use the pricey franchise tag to keep Garoppolo for 2018.

Source: CSN New England Jul 20 - 6:31 PM

Man, that is such an envious--yet difficult--position for NE to be in.

JG showed some remarkable traits in his brief time as a starter. The quick release, the quick recognition, the efficiency of how he went through his progressions, the accuracy, etc. Those are rare traits in young qbs.

Yet, NE arguably has the greatest qb of all-time on the same roster and he had perhaps his best season in his career last year.

There is concern if they try and get something for JG and Brady gets hurt and Father Time drops a bomb on him while JG goes onto stardom somewhere else.

Yet, how in the heck do you not keep playing the guy who is probably still the best qb in the league?

Furthermore, how can you pay them both while having money for the rest of your roster.

It's a very unique situation w/no easy answers.

There's a real easy answer ... its actually very simple if you dont want to overthink it ...

If Bill thinks JG is a franchise QB NO WAY DOES HE LET HIM WALK ... unless your of the mindset it's easy to find franchise QB's ... I'm pretty sure Bill knows better ...

U can keep the guy thats going to be 41 when next season starts or the guy thats going to be 26 when next season starts ... unless your of the mindset Brady is immune to Father Time ... just cause Brady says he wants to play 4 or 5 more years doesn't mean Father Time won't cut his plans short ... and i wonder if the self admitted concussion he suffered last year won't play into it ,,, i bet if he suffers another one it will enter into his " 5 year plan' ...

Like i said earlier ... we'll see what bill thinks of JG after this season ends ...

How it plays out will be interesting to say the least...

And will we be as interested next year.

Interesting to consider whether you go with your own in-house QB, JG next year (I am assuming no injury issues), or draft a newly out of next year's draft. Or two of those. I personally pass on JG unless he lights it up. But then, the Patsies price point goes up as does JG's value, especially if Brady ends the season mortal. Next year looks better for QB potential.

JMHO, Pats and their system- excellence-can't last forever- Brady and Bill are joined at hip...BUT Brady's millionaire wife will have a say IF his bell gets rung...all the greats have their time- Brady's is nearly up. If your brain ain't working, who wants to live.
Jimmy G, Pats would be stupid to let him go, it will never happen....unless he gets hurt significantly some way.
He's 27 this year....again, JMHO I want us to invest in Kizer or/and next best thing out of college next year....I just never seeing Pats giving up Jimmy G......GO Browns!!!!

Brady/Garopollo
Manning/Luck
Favre/Rodgers

Must be nice.......

Your link CONFIRMS in my small mind NE never lets Jimmy go...NEVER, no matter what we offer them...a bird (good/great QB) in hand worth two in bush (maybe draft picks). I'd never let Jimmy G go.....including requiring TB to restructure to make it happen....do you really think TB wouldn't to help the Pats....we need to find our own, Pats won't give him up....GO Browns!!!!

I don't know how this will play out, but it's somewhat shocking that people are completely ignoring the money angle.

People act like Tom Brady is The Six Million Dollar Man. That he's bionic and will last forever. That's simply not true and BB knows it. BB would be foolish not to keep JG because it's close to being time for a changing of the guard in New England.

So......do you think that the Pats will:

--Cut Brady

or

--Pay your QBs over $50 million per year even though one guy will be a bench warmer?

You mean next year?

Depends on how Brady plays this year.

It's not really possible to predict an ending to a situation with the current unknowns. Both Brady and BB may sail off into the sunset for all we know. It wouldn't be the first time people went out on top.

Yeah, next year. He doesn't become a FA until after the year.

I don't know about "hoping things just play out." It seems to me they should develop some sort of plan if Brady continues to play well.

I would venture to say they probably have a plan A, a plan B and maybe even a plan C. But as I mentioned above, I believe there are a lot of factors that have to play out before they know which plan to go with.

I also believe a lot of their decision will be based on if they're looking long term or short term.

Come on, Pit.......LOL

Let's say that Brady continues to play at a very high level. He arguably played better last year than at any point of his career. There was not one sign of slippage. In fact, many think he has never played better. Brady has stated he wants to play another 5 years or so.

What do you do:

A. Cut Brady

B. Trade JG to a team for a lot of draft picks

C. Allow JG become a FA and go to another team

D. Keep both and have over $50 million tied up in one position

That is why I said that they are in an envious, yet interesting, position. I don't think there is a clear-cut answer to the question.

But again, what would Pit do......or the rest of you, for that matter?

Despite the fact Brady "wants to play for another five years" doesn't change the fact that at his current level the odds are low that it's possible. We both know athletes have a very hard time facing the fact that their skill level will dwindle with age.

You want me to make a decision on "let's say". I'm not one who does that. Now if you ask me that same question at seasons end, I will give you a firm opinion on what I would do. Let me tell you what I wouldn't do.

IF I felt confident that JG was a franchise QB, I wouldn't let a young franchise QB get away from me for a franchise QB with a very short shelf life.

Goodness. I wasn't trying to argue w/you. I think it is a very fair question. The possibility exists that Brady will still be playing well. Not sure why offering an opinion on the question is such a big deal? Hell, you could say that saying Brady will fall completely off the ledge is a "let's say" statement.

I'll answer my own damn question. I think there are only two rational choices.

A was not rational. You can't just cut Tom "Freaking" Brady. Besides him maybe being the GOAT, can you imagine the pressure JG would be under?

B makes the most sense to me, but it is risky because like you "say," Brady could fall off the map and JG could stud out.

C would be irrational. You can't just let this guy go for a Comp pick.

D would be somewhat rational. It would be very costly and it could hurt the rest of your roster by having so much money tied up in one position, but having both guys on the team covers your butt at the most important position in football.

All I did was give you an honest answer. Not trying to argue. I know it's not framed within the parameters you desire, but it is my answer.

I think it's going to be a tough decision because I think that Brady isn't close to having diminished skills. Again, I think there is a strong argument to make that he never played better than he did last year. He hasn't shown one sign of digressing.

I do think the thing w/his wife could change things dramatically and then it would be an easy decision. I just am not buying the argument that he is suddenly going to lose all of his skills.

+1

Brady may think he's playing 4 more years, but we know he'll at least play 1 more and I'm betting it's more like 2 seasons. That would mean JG has to sit this year and then the Pats would franchise him for ~$25M the following season to again, sit. Can they eat two seasons of JG talent while holding a clipboard and paying a franchise tag next season?

Great read bone ... thanks for sharing ..... nice to have new info from those in the know .. we didn't have that info until now ... confirms a lot of things ...

Definetly helps clear up why they kept him this year ... will be interesting to see how this cookie crumbles after the season ...

There's more options than that ... just like at the end of last year when I GOT BLASTED from every corner of this board that JG leaving wasn't the done deal u guys all thought it was ...

As Pit said .. I'm sure Bill has a plan that covers all scenarios ... this season needs to play out and what Brady is saying at the end of it ... THATS STEP 1 ...

The only thing i know for sure .. if Bill thinks JG is a franchise qb ... NO WAY HE LETS HIM WALK ... NO WAY ... he'd cut Brady first ... Bill realizes that no matter what Brady says ... FATHER TIME WILL CATCH UP TO HIM ...

16 games is a long season ... lots can happen ... including injury ... another concussion and that could change Brady's 4 or 5 year plan ... a knee injury ... diminishing skills could start to set in .. its a LONG ASS SEASON and many many things can happen ... but what won't change is the fact that on opening day in 2018 ... Brady will be 41 and JG will be 26 ..

Plus Brady isn't an idiot ... hes very level headed ... they'll figure the money out if there both on the roster next year ... like i said ... many more options than the pats having to carry 2 QB's at a 50 million cap hit ..

Just like after the season when everyone was sure he'd be traded cause they had NO OTHER OPTIONS .... ...

The way I'm getting torn up on the Crow thread reminds me a lot of how i was beat up when I pointed out JG may be going no where ... if we sign crow long term .. lets hope this time u guys are right and I'm wrong ...

I really wish you would stop w/the childish nonsense about winning some stupid board argument and just discuss things.

You keep saying the same thing and it isn't true. You came into the JG conversation after it was already a hot topic. There were people who kept saying that JG must stink because he is a backup. They said if NE traded him that it meant he wasn't any good. They said BB was trying to con us.

Some of us made the argument that because he was a soon to be FA and that Brady is so good, that he might indeed be traded and that did NOT mean he stunk. You got into it w/some posters and you did get blasted, but I believe it's because you didn't quite see how it evolved. That wasn't your fault, because again, we had been discussing the issue for quite some time.

I'm just telling you that the version you keep telling is not completely accurate. I don't think anyone said he was going to be traded guaranteed. How about you drop it and just talk football? Can you handle that?

Here, let me help you:



Okay...........expound. Make logical arguments. It's not a freaking war. It's a discussion. Perhaps if we can get past that and understand that none of us knows exactly how it will play out, the discussion might actually be fruitful.

And wouldn't that be refreshing.

Ya .. that would be ...

Interesting way to try and start a civil convo ... ...

Its never been about winning a board argument for me ... its my opinion ... we'll find out whose right or wrong like we always do .. WHEN IT PLAYS OUT ...

I've been wrong a million times before and will be wrong a million more times .... and I'm ok with that ... I've also been right before ... like i was with JG ... seems like now your bashing me for not knowing what was said before i got back ... thats logical ... ..

Dude ... i came back before last year started or shortly thereafter ... i was around when u started talking about JG mid season or so ..... im not getting in a pissin match with U ... not gonna happen ... what i know is when i said that JG may not be traded and may stick with the pats .. i was CRUCIFIED by all but one or two posters ... pretty sure u were one of the ones BASHING ME ... and its OK ... weather u were or u weren't ... it don't matter .. WERE ALL WRONG SOMETIMES ... it played out ... just Ike al the times i been wrong ...

Like i said .. if we sign crow long term i hope you guys are right about hm and I'm wrong ... just like ALL OF US ... we want whats best for browns ...

Carry on with your unique way of tryoing to start a civil debate ... u may want to lose the SLEDGEHAMMER next time ...