DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump hits new low in polls

1) To those single parent home children that are doing great, awesome. My assumption is those parents on some level wanted the child though. To those that considered having an abortion and now can't imagine life without their kid, good for them. For each of those I'm sure we can find a young professional that as college student got knocked up and ended it and couldn't be more thankful that they did.
Having choices is great.

2)We both do have opinions. My opinion allows for personal choice. Your opinion seeks to take that choice away from supposedly 'free' citizens that may have an opinion different from yours.

3)Are you assuming all guys must want to keep said cluster of cells? That said I believe the guy should have a right to a say in the decision too. Baring rape type of situations. Then that dog (the rapist) needs to be put down.

In the mean time, can't we just sterilize everyone at birth and make people have to turn that crap on only when they want it? Come on science!!

Well there is the pill, that's not that expensive, and even less than that is a condom which-if you're not smart enough to figure out how it works you ought not be taking your clothes off anyway.

My opinion allows for choices as well. Just not the choice to murder an innocent baby.

We have been back and forth o this subject for years bro. I just hope one day you will agree with me, just like I am sure you hope one day I will agree with you.

Until that day, I want to make sure you remember I love ya bud. I wish nothing but the best for you and your family, as I believe you wish the same for me. Now grab your captain caveman club and lets keep beating each other over the head

It is hard to explain, but if you would humor me, I'd like your opinion about something.

Why on one hand, if a person kills a woman who is pregnant and both her and the fetus die, you are charged with the murder of that fetus? Yet if a woman has an abortion it's not considered murder?

I'm not really trying to weigh in on my personal beliefs about abortion, but don't you feel there should be some consistency here? I mean if it's only "a bunch of cells" then how can you charge and try someone for murder when these "cells" are murdered?

And yet another point. Do you believe that people who have found out the sex of the baby, bought things for the baby and have the name chosen for the baby consider a fetus "a bunch of cells"?

I understand your views and I'm not trying to dismiss your beliefs on the matter. I'm just trying to show you the conundrum in some of the things you believe and show you a different viewpoint.

Certainly understand. I just know in the heat of the moment as a youth best decisions aren't always made. I certainly had a few moments of stupidity. As did most of my buddies. Thankfully to my knowledge we all escaped without the big oops of a kid. At least until it was truly wanted by those that later had them. Most of my friends waited until they were in their 30's to start their families. Got college, business starts, etc behind them first.
Look. I've got no skin in the game anymore. A $50 copay a couple years back and snip snip my breeding days were done. No kids. No chance for them in the future. Glad I made it unscathed.

Thanks GM.
I'm so glad I never was faced with the choice. Man it would have been crazy difficult life ahead of me either way I would have chosen. Fundamentally do get what you're saying. I was raised in a Christian home. I have my faith. I just also have my humanity. (Not to say you don't.) It's a struggle daily balancing those two things in today's world. That's s topic for another discussion.

Now where'd that damn club go?!

This is what we need to be (REALLY hate to use this term) drilling into their heads at a young age.

Focus on your dreams! What do you wanna do with your life? We all understand the temptations, but please understand the consequences that could derail your life too!

What gets me is I was raised In a Christian home as well, and I hear it all the time that my beliefs are only because I am a Christian. My beliefs about abortion have Zero, zip, nada to do with my Christian beliefs. I just think it's murder pure and simple.

*Hands Portland a club, and bows down* Your turn lol

Cluster of cells? ... wow ...

Glad u made it through unscathed ... as far as u know ...

All fair questions. As to the consistency thing. You're correct there is a weird double standard of sorts. (Though it's not mine. If you murder someone (a full fledged human) then you need to be put down yourself. End of story)
I will say that maybe on some level intent comes into play. The people you describe have this cluster of cells in them. They obviously want this cluster to become their baby. Their intent is to see this cluster through to the end of the pregnancy. They've given it a name etc.
The cluster of cells that is unwanted is hopefully discovered quickly. While it is much more a cluster of cells than anything else viable. At a time in the gestation where often times the female body could naturally terminate it on its own through early gestation miscarriages. Either way it's not a wanted cluster of cells.

No lie this is a super difficult topic. I can't imagine being faced with it. But given freedom of choice or not...I'm choosing choice. Even if I never would chose to make it myself.

I appreciate your reply.

I didn't. I got a girl pregnant. I married her. (for many reasons - but the biggest reason was "I'm supposed to, and you have my kid". She had proposed abortion. I was against it.

Long story short, she got pregnant by some other guy a couple of years later. We even went to "counseling" in order to try to work things out. It didn't work out.

What a sinner I was. Dang, pre marital sex...........and I still am a sinner - but not in a sexual way.

Anyway, that unwanted (by his mom) boy just became a nurse practitioner. I haven't asked him, but I bet I know his answer to the question of "think you should've been killed in the womb?"

Oh, it cost me, no doubt. I couldn't hang out with friends like I wanted to when I was in college.

I couldn't party, as I had full time school, part time job, had to find time to study, AND had a kid to take care of. You know, being a dad.

It was tough. It was inconvenient. And I don't regret it one bit. Bet my son doesn't either.



I'm glad you made it also, as it's obvious you don't want kids.

And that's fine.

I'm glad you didn't murder a kid in the womb, either.

And your "cluster of cells" comment.........hey, YOU, or me, are nothing but a cluster of cells. Are you good if society, or your job, decides you are an inconvenient "cluster of cells", and sucks your brain out of your skull?

After all, really, you, or me, are nothing but a cluster of cells, right?

I grew up poor (rich with love) in a poor rural community. I watched kids I went to high school with have kids and the insane struggles they went through. My older sister started having too many kids at too young and age and struggled like crazy. Still does to this day. Now her oldest has gone on to do the same thing. Now he struggles like crazy. I love my family but many of them are stuck in a life of poverty because of the immature choices they made while they were immature teens. This may sound horrible but screw it. (Some of you consider me a monster already. So meh) Honestly if I could go back and warn my sister of the life she was setting up for herself... I love my nephews, but I would have loved the nephews she would have provided, years later in a more stable life, just as much. And never had known the difference.
I now work around these young girls, 18 to 20 years old, entry level CNA positions with no plan for more education, pregnant with their 2nd kid. I just can't...? I'll never understand I guess the compulsion to breed. But at least if one is going to do it do it with some modecum of rationality as to where you are in your life.

*drop club...turn my back...now wait*

No but I'm also 45 years old and self aware. If I ever get to a point where I can no longer take care of myself in any copacity. Basically returning to a vegetative cluster of cells I hope someone offs me. We do it for our pets out of compassion. Yet we feed contractured, non verbal, bedbound, 85 year old granny through a tube in her stomach and act like it's an act of mercy.

Neat.


You are nothing but a cluster of cells, and if society deems you should die, so be it?

Society has said abortion is legal. 1 section of society. If the other section of society deems you, or I, are not worthy of living, you good with having your brains sucked out? Maybe the gas chamber for those that support abortion - well, there cluster of cells -if society changes their opinion?



My son is glad I stuck up for him.

See but that's a silly question in my pragmatic rational mind (not saying you aren't these things). I used to get asked all the time when I revealed that I didn't ever want children,"well what if your mom thought like that?"...um...then you'd not be having this conversation with me. Duh.
Of course your son is glad he wasn't aborted. As am I. Though if I had been I'd never know. Anymore than he would have known, or existed. Simple math in my mind.

I'm glad it worked out for you. I really am. You should be proud of your story. But it's yours. Mine is mine. Hers is hers. His is his. They're not all the same.
Growing up as a kid I wasn't much for reading for pleasure but I use to love 'chose your own adventure' books. Ones where you got to make choices in the story. Do you turn and run from the goblin?...turn to page 34...Or do you fight him?...turn to page 47.
Maybe this desire for personal freedom started at a young age. We all have a path. I'm glad I've had choices to make along the way. I'm thankful for the ones I did make. Though some were awful choices. Lol
May we all get to 45 years old, not be harmed by the bad choices, and feel good about where we are and the choices we made.

Come on. That's reactionary hyperbole. I'm calling you on it.
Well you put your aging dog down so now what's to stop me from going over to my neighbors and putting his puppy down with a butcher knife in front of his kids? I mean now that the vet puts pets down what's to stop me from killing the elderly guy next door? I mean if it's just a killing spree what's to stop us? :rollseyes:

I'm glad you stuck up for your son too. Sound like he turned out well. Again you should be proud.

Okay folks. It's been real. For those of you that have engaged in actual conversation and dialog, thanks. I really do enjoy the banter. Arch, GM, Etc

I've got to get dinner started. And I'm kind of tired of this topic. Lol
We're all banging our heads against the wall. Opposite sides of the same wall, but the same wall indeed. Time for a break.
Later.

Just like I did



So did I. In fact I was one of them.



I married my wife 9 days after she turned 17 and 10 days before I turned 19. We struggled our asses off. It builds character



BUT are they happy? Which is all that matters in this life. People can spend their entire life in poverty and be really happy, and people can be rich as hell and be miserable. It's only money.



As for me I consider you a loving man, and loving family man, and loving person. Hell I admit I could not do what you do for a living and I thank God for people like you who can. I think your a great guy who just happens to disagree with me about abortion. It doesn't make you any better or worse than me, just a difference of opinion on that subject bro.



My wife being a nurse works around the same folks. Just remember some folks "breed" because they love life, and their kids more than life. I know you don't understand that and thats cool. Just like you don't understand I would cut off both of my nuts if it helped out my kids. Both my wife and I would gladly sacrifice ourselves if it helped out our kids or grandkids.

It is a very hard thing for people to understand that don't have children. It's stronger than any other love I've ever known.