DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 10 Giants 6 Browns players kneel during National Anthem

Well, one could argue they are being patriotic as they are exercising their first amendment right to peacefully protest and assemble.

One could also argue they are being Christian as according to the media and the players they were praying.

OK, I try to stay away from the left versus right debate. Mostly because I think (in here at least) I'm a moderate. In Canada, I'd be considered more right...although Canadian values as a whole have a distinctly left lean.

BUT you can't with a straight face that "the right" are patriots while "the left" is not. That's simply ridiculous.

Watch the Herm Edwards comments I posted. Perhaps drawing recognition to the problems that the US is experiencing is possibly the most patriotic thing that CAN be done.

Fair enough.

"Exactly....this is the league that needs to make this change. Until theres a deterrent, these little babies will think its ok.. Like he said, yes, you can be stupid and express your rights, but that alone doesn't absolve you from consequences. Time and a place, and at a stadium, where thousands of people with real jobs and much more going on than these "oppressed" players, are wanting to spend some time with family, enjoy themselves, and forget about their real lives for 4 hours. But instead they have to deal with all this petty horsehit from people who bite the very hand that feeds them."

See where I think you're misconstruing things is this isn't about the "oppressed players". These players are showing solidarity with their oppressed brethren that have no platform or pulpit to speak from. If Joe the plumber takes a knee no one cares. No one on the news talks about why a knee is being taken. These players aren't taking a knee for themselves. They're doing it for those that don't have a voice. Now it's on the news.

I disagree, a house divided will not stand.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It's the mob rule mentality.

The left will eventually get their way and we will have a tyrannical one world government and economy and the end of this great nation.

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

1.Duke Johnson Jr.
2.Terrence Magee,
3.Jabril Peppers
4.Calvin Pryor,
5.Jamar Taylor,
6.Seth DeValve,
7.Kenny Britt
8.Ricardo Louis,
9.Christian Kirksey
10.Jamie Collins,
11.Isaiah Crowell
12.Brandon Wilds

I waited until i slept on it to write this reply, that being said.

See those 12 names right there? ALL of them are TRASHCANS. I am embarrassed to even say I am a Browns fan.

Infact, I NO LONGER AM A BROWNS FAN. Not as long as those filth are on this team.

They just disrespected the memory of my dad, of my uncle, of one of my best friends who was killed in combat. Not to mention 3 police officers I have known in my life to die in the line of duty.

I can no longer be a fan of this organization as long as people like them are allowed to be on this team.

Sorry Cleveland Browns, you broke my heart this day...the sad thing is...you broke my fathers even more...all he ever wanted was to see the Browns win, and in return you disrespect his and every other fallen vets memory and [censored] on their sacrifices...

so since you're not a fan anymore, why are you still here?

First point I agree with completely. And wasn't the point of what the Browns in question did was to show unity and encourage people to come together?

After that, you delve into some serious Alex Jones type stuff.

I guess some see what others choice to not look at, because the truth is too painful.

IMO...the NFL is becoming a three ringed circus.

Play football not politics.

Again...If you offend one, then you have offended us all.

This reads like one of those chain emails. This letter first appeared to circulate in 2016 after Kaepernik's protest and was originally or supposedly sent to Allen B. West who runs a conservative blog who in turn posted it to his site.

Additionally, the alleged author of the this letter refers to his season passes he has to Giants Stadium. Met Life stadium opened in 2010. I'm sure in 6 years he would have adjusted to the new name.

Secondly, this writing style and tone does not sound like something written by a well educated Colonel.

Anyway, it's a fun letter to appeal to it's target audience.

As for kneeling in protest, they're becoming commonplace and will lose their shock value. Soon people will be come numb to it. Personally, I would never kneel or sit during the anthem, but that's me.

Browns fans are still going to watch the team and as soon as one of these players, sacks a QB, makes an INT or scores a TD all will be forgotten.

For the players, in the end, kneeling will accomplish nothing.

I'll respect your right to your opinion....but don't make it sound like others who don't see the Bilderberg group or the Illuminati or a secret leftist global cabal around every corner don't have a valid opinion or have their head in the sand.

CLEVELAND -- A dozen Browns players took a knee in prayer during the national anthem before Monday night's preseason game against the New York Giants.

While the group knelt behind the bench, several other players placed a hand on a kneeling teammate's shoulder in support.

"There's a lot of racial and social injustices in the world that are going on right now," rookie safety Jabrill Peppers said after the Browns' second win in two preseason games. "We just decided to take a knee and pray for the people who have been affected and just pray for the world in general."

Players said linebacker Christian Kirksey led the prayer.

"We did it out of respect," Kirksey said. "No disrespect for anyone, we just felt like it was the right time and the need to do it."


Tight end Seth DeValve, who became the first known white NFL player to take a knee during the national anthem, said recent events in Charlottesville, Virginia, had a lot to do with the decision. But DeValve said it was also more involved. His wife, Erica, is African-American.

"I myself will be raising children that don't look like me, and I want to do my part as well to do everything I can to raise them in a better environment than we have right now," DeValve said. "So I wanted to take the opportunity with my teammates during the anthem to pray for our country and also to draw attention to the fact that we have work to do."

Those who took a knee were DeValve, running backs Duke Johnson Jr. and Terrence Magee, safeties Peppers and Calvin Pryor, cornerback Jamar Taylor, receivers Kenny Britt and Ricardo Louis, linebackers Kirksey and Jamie Collins, and running backs Isaiah Crowell and Brandon Wilds (who were not in uniform).

Wilds' participation was originally overlooked but was confirmed by the team after the game, bringing the count to an even dozen players.

Those who stood nearby included punter Britton Colquitt (who also had his hand on his heart), cornerback Jason McCourty, quarterback DeShone Kizer, defensive tackle Trevon Coley and offensive tackle Shon Coleman.

This past week, coach Hue Jackson stood by his players' right to make a statement, provided it was peaceful and he had advance notice.

"We respect our players; we respect the flag," Jackson said Monday night. "Those guys came to me and talked to me about it before they ever made a decision to do it."

Said Peppers, "We were not trying to disrespect the flag or be a distraction to the team, but as men we thought we had the right to stand up for what we believed in, and we demonstrated that."

Players said they had not thought past this game, so they could not say whether it was a one-time thing or if it will continue.

"It saddens me that in 2017 we have to do something like that," DeValve said. "I personally would like to say that I love this country. I love our national anthem. I'm very grateful to the men and women who have given their lives and give a lot every day to protect this courtly and serve this country. I want to honor them as much as I can.

"The United States is the greatest country in the world. It is because it provides opportunities to citizens that no other country does. The issue is that it doesn't provide equal opportunity to everybody.

"I wanted to support my African-American teammates today who wanted to take a knee."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20409...-preseason-game

The latter wasn't Alex Jones type stuff as much as it was Biblical.

If they are praying for peace, then I support them 100%

I was more talking about " the tyrannical one world government" point.

Well I don't need Alex Jones to tell me where we are in the stream of time. I have prophecy a more sure word of understanding.

My point is if your protest vs an offender offends another, then you are no better then the ones you protest against. Thats a hypocrite.

j/c

EriK is right, the flag means more to Vets than most, but these players aren't protesting the flag, they are protesting the national anthem. They are not even protesting the anthem most know, they are protesting the versus never heard:

O say can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
What so proudly we hail’d at the twilight’s last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight
O’er the ramparts we watch’d were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket’s red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there,
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep
Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream,
’Tis the star-spangled banner—O long may it wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
Between their lov’d home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with vict’ry and peace may the heav’n rescued land
Praise the power that hath made and preserv’d us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto – “In God is our trust,”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

This particular bit is glorifying the killing of slaves that fled to the British to fight for freedom. It basically endorses slavery and indentured servitude. These things sound good to you?

Then one day the NFL announces that any and all players & coaches who own or use firearms will no longer be welcomed on any team.

I think people forget that prior to 2009 (when the Defense Department began paying the NFL to hold patriotic displays), NFL teams were not required to be on the field during the playing of the national anthem. If ya'll didn't complain about it prior to 2009, don't complain about it now.

This being said, I understand both sides. In addition to the articles already posted, here are a couple where some folks in the military are ok with it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/revelist/im-a-us-military-veteran_b_11782806.html

https://theundefeated.com/features/an-op...lin-kaepernick/

j/c:

Many are defending the players because they have the "right" to protest.

Yet, many of those same posters are ripping posters who are protesting the protest. Are only certain people allowed to "protest" an act, deed, or ideology that they think is wrong?

Sounds hypocritical to me.

I'm torn a little with this. What I mean by that is that many men and woman gave their lives for our country. But they did give so that someone can stand up (or kneel) in protest of a perceived injustice.

For me, this is the wrong venue for this action, but it does cause a stir.. We are talking about it. I'm sure that's what they desire.

The problem to it is there is more talk about the act of the protest and not about the reason for the protest.

Thinking to usurp God for a political agenda is just wrong. Christains should keep religion and politics as far away from each other as the east is from the west.

They are seperate kingdoms (swords).

JMHO, happy Browns players didn't raise a fist in the air and didn't sit....praying for better world is classy in my book...a hand over your heart, standing tall is the best...
Hate and stupidity will always be with us, sad the news media has to use it to sell......2 and 0, WOW, Go Browns!!!!

This entire incident was pathetic. It had no measurable impact on racial tensions in the USA. It has created more division among those who took an opportunity to come and see the local football team play a game. The idea of praying for social unity as the reasoning for doing the act is transparent. The entire event was personal grandstanding by athletes who are employees of a football club.

The argument about exercising free speech is another straw man. You have a right to speak freely in the USA with the expectation that the government will not persecute you for your speech. It is not a blanket offer to have you say whatever you want whenever you want and not have consequences. The players who did this event are ignorant and short sighted. Do they not remember the uproar over the Crowell incident last season?

You are a 1-15 team from last season. You are trying to come together as a team and build team chemistry. I know what to do, let some of us kneel when the national anthem is being played. This will bring the team closer as a unit and build team chemistry. Who was the brilliant mind that came up with that? As the simple act as kneeling during the national anthem was meant to show unity with those who feel oppressed by American society, it has done nothing more than divide the team in a politically charged climate.

I am not the Cleveland Browns front office. I am not the owner of the team. I am not the coaching staff. However, if I had the authority to act against the players for this event, I would bench every one of them for the next game. I would not let them on the field. I would lose the game before I let one of them play. It was a political ploy in the midst of a politically charged environment while in the workplace. The protest had a direct impact on the image of the Cleveland Browns football team in the eyes of the fans. Come and do your job while you are at work players. I ask nothing more of you. What you do outside of work and while you are not representing the Cleveland Browns is your own business. What you do while working or wearing the Cleveland Browns uniform directly impacts on the image of the team. Your protest of the national anthem shows that you are not a Cleveland Brown player when you put the uniform on, it shows that the uniform is only a means for you to make a political statement. Saddened by the entire mess.

Voleur

Playing devil's advocate here...the players decided to exercise their freedoms, and yet there are many on this site critizing them for it. How is that any different?

Maybe they would make more of an impact if they held a prayer meeting in the communities that are the most effected by the problem, all the players feeling the need to get involve would all gather on a non football day.

They could pray educate and make donations to the neighborhoods.

Look I worked in a steel mill for 20 years and if I would have knelt down and protested something while on the job I would have been fired on the spot ... Just Sayin'

I share your pain, thanks for your testimony.

I should have mentioned that this wasn't a question to you specifically, it was a question to the board.

My point in playing devil's advocate is that it is the same with the right, and the same with those of us in the middle. We get so caught up in our beliefs and don't always realize we're doing the same thing.

Regarding the insult to Vets, I'm sure many are. I also know based on some articles posted previous to this posting, that some are ok with it, as the freedoms the players are exercising are exactly what they've fought for.

Since we are playing Devil's Advocate:

Are you suggesting that people don't have the right to protest a protest? Do we have to all say.........."that's great, guys?"

Do we not have the right to voice our opinion that we think it is not the proper way to make a statement? Or, are only certain people afforded the right to protest the actions of others?

And while you may not be suggesting that, there are others on this board making angry, emotional statements against those who are voicing their opinion on the matter.

Once again, I find it hypocritical. We should all have the right to free speech, rather than just those who belong to one's individual side.

By dishonoring the very object that gives them this freedom? This makes no sense.

The numerous sad and disappointed posts on this thread are proof the Browns are in trouble.

This should not have happened. It’s a breakdown of team leadership, communication, discipline and focus.

Knowledgeable posters know either Hue Jackson and/or Jimmy Haslam are ultimately to blame.

This is a major setback to our hopes of a high caliber NFL team.

Simple as that.

To those saying "It's the player's right" - that's just stupid.

https://medium.com/@VetsForKaep/an-open-...ns-cda9bffb764c

My big issue w/these turds is the word "oppression." They are multimillionaires. Many came from a very poor environment. How badly can they be oppressed if they have made such a dramatic jump on the economic ladder?

One might argue they are paid because of their athletic talent and while that is true, I have worked for School Superintendents that were black. They rose to the top of their profession. There are black mayors and other highly placed in political offices. There are black CEO's, attorneys, judges, engineers. Hell, we even had a black president for 8 years!

Oppression? Pffffttttttttttt.........

It irks me that so many blacks do not appreciate the opportunities they have in this great country.

Yes, we have problems in this country and not everyone is fair and unbiased. But, that is true everywhere.

Make a difference. Do what guys like LeBron are doing. Speaking out, starting foundations, etc.

To me..........these guys are simply saying a big F...You to the country that afforded them a lucrative and unique opportunity.

And as an American, I am thankful that I have the "right" to express my opinion on the matter!

Thing is...some people in here said Crowell should have been cut, kicked out of the league and some even went further with their criticisms. However, during the 1-15 season there was a long thread on Crowell's breakout season where many were praising him. There was also a lengthy thread about Crowell's tender and contract extension and worries if and when he would sign with us or maybe somebody else. Again, I am willing to bet some of his loudest critics last offseason were praising him and hoping he would stay a Cleveland Brown.

Point is...this freakout about players protesting will all be wasted energy and add up to nothing once we kick off against the Steelers. Especially if we win but, also once any of the 12 protesting players has a great game or season. If and when that happens I'm pretty sure the "get out of jail free" card will be handed out by some of today's critics.

I'm not suggesting that, and I agree with your statement.

TY.