DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer it is

Fixed it for ya

I kind of agree with both you and Vers.

I believe they knew going in that Kizer had far more talent than anyone on the roster. I also feel they knew if there was any possibility of having anyone on the roster that could be a future franchise QB for our team that it was Kizer.

I aslo feel that if they actually thought one of the other QB's had outplayed Kizer, they would have jumped at the opportunity to let him sit for a while. That didn't happen.

I also feel that what Vers said about careers being short in the NFL is another reason they're starting him. You start the QB that gives you the best chance to win.

Yeah true it wasn't fair that a fresh rookie came into camp and moved the ball down field and scored points. Maybe a participation trophy is in order for the other guys.

I didn't make up a thing. I stated what I saw, and backed it up with statistical data, and a few videos to boot.

He's a poor QB. He has poor accuracy, and he couldn't even attack down thew field with high quality receivers last year.

I don't hate anyone. I can, however, dislike aspects of a player's game, and there are a lot of aspects of Brock's game I dislike, and the fact that we got a 2nd round pick from the Texans just to take him off their books says a lot about what they, and the rest of the league thought of him.

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree about him. I suspect that we'll either get a late round pick for him, or have to release him outright. I see no way that he is on the roster to start the season.

That makes sense to me.

As to the QB "competition", none of us can know what went on, since we weren't there in the meetings/practices/etc.

We do know that Kizer is starting. So, my question is, what will the game plan be to take advantage of his strengths, and to mask his weaknesses?

Thanks for replying respectfully.

We simply disagree as I don't think Brock got a fair shot in the games. He was hardly in there.

Again, I am not saying the powers that be are wrong, but I don't think it was a real qb competition.

I think everyone needs to chill out on the QB situation and just let Hue make the decision(s) so we don't create a QB controversy and get Hue fired.

Interesting stuff on Kizer and Hue Jackson:

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=20498333

I agree. I don't think we wanted to start him this early, but all the others forced Hue's hand. The only other QB who has stood out is Hogan.

In the end it is probably a good thing. As a team we need to get a good feel for the guy. It simplifies the draft process if we know if he is or isn't the guy. The worst thing headed in to next years draft would be to still be stuck on maybe.

He is a rookie. Whether he starts this season or not you're not going to know what you have for several seasons.

I enjoy listening to Cian Fahey....and not just for his great Irish accent. Thanks for sharing.

I'm with U ... rookie years are often FOOLS GOLD ... thanks tabber .. ...

If we like a qb next year we should go get them no matter what happens this year ... QB's are expensive but their really really hard to come by ...

I fully believe Kizer is probably the best QB prospect we have had in a long time. I think he could be the guy, but just starting him day one worries me.

This move has the potential to blow up in Hue's face big time.

what happens if Kizer goes out against the Steelers, throws 4 picks, gets sacked 4 or 5 times, and we lose some 38-0 or 35-3 type drubbing...that could not only set Kizer back big time, but could cause a crap storm of epic proportions that puts Hue on the hot seat early, and that kinda pressure ins't good for long term success.

Whereas instead, we Could start Brock for our 1st 4 games against the Steelers, Ravens, Colts, and Bengals...if Brock has a winning record and has played decently at that point you stay the course...if we have sturggled then you put Kizer in week 5 against the Jets...give the kid a game where he will realistically have a chance of being succesful and build that confidence and then go from there.

Week 1 against the Steelers and Week two against the Ravens, and week 4 against the Bengals is a buzzsaw for a rookie Qb and may end up ruining him completely...if he gets the living stuffing beat out of him in those games and throws a lot of picks, things could get ugly.

the game hasn't slowed down enough for Kizer yet, and those 3 teams will ramp up the speed of the game by 3-4 times...I don't think he is ready to handle that yet. I'd rather bring him along slower, chance for success is probably better that way...once we go with Kizer there is no turning back...you can't bench him no matter how much he struggles....

how many of you would be OK with a 30 INT season? think you could stomach that? not saying it will happen, but it could...Kizer is very raw...a lot of those passes he threw in the preseason would have been picked off in a real game.

Most of Kizer great performances came against guys that won't make the final 53 cut of any NFL roster....his sole outing against a starting team(missing 5 of its starting defensive players) Kizer posted a 28 rating.

If his performance against Tampa and its 5 missing starters is any indication, no way he is ready, and the Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals will murder this kid...no two ways about it. I'm not comfortable putting Kizer out there yet, but that's just me.

I agree. You won't know in total for several seasons, but after one the team should start to see how things are trending. You should have a pretty good idea if he is goig at least be pretty good.

He may never top out as a elite QB, but you should be able to determine if we need to go after another QB with a high pick next year, or use the picks we have to help make DK a better player going forward..

If he only played/plays a few games, you don't know squat.

Hue said to trust him with Cody and we all know that was words he wished he could take back. Now, I'm not saying Hue can't develop QBs and we shouldn't trust him, I think he's the right man for the job - but I did gain less confidence when he said the things he did regarding Kessler and how Kessler has been.

Now also, with that said - Kizer has every physical trait you'd possibly want and is a much better prospect for development.

I hope it works out, I'd really love to say HEY, WE HAVE OUR QB NOW! WHAT ELSE DO WE NEED TO DRAFT? Gosh, it would be awfully great to be able to say that.

Grossi & MKC will take care of that at their earliest opportunity; we aren't required.

This is somewhat related to Kizer:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/8/30/...ky-mike-glennon

Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, and Phillip Rivers on what it was like sitting early.

That was a pretty good read. Thanks

"Telfer must be a GREAT BLOCKER!!! cause he can't catch a cold.
If the ball isn't in the chest he ain't getting it.
jmho".

Thats not his game. His is short to medium routes of a traditional TE. We have a couple of other TE's that we can use on the deep routes.

Passing

Player Att Cmp Pct Yds YPA TD TD% Int Int% Lg Sack Loss Rate
DeShone Kizer 49 25 51.0 351 7.2 1 2.0 1 2.0 52 5 44 72.7
Cody Kessler 46 29 63.0 289 6.3 1 2.2 0 0.0 31 6 46 88.0
Kevin Hogan 32 21 65.6 269 8.4 3 9.4 0 0.0 51t 2 4 123.0
Brock Osweiler 22 12 54.5 67 3.0 0 0.0 1 4.5 10 0 0 41.3
Cleveland 149 87 58.4 976 6.6 5 3.4 2 1.3 52 13 94 83.6
Opponents 132 85 64.4 803 6.1 1 0.8 2 1.5 52 16 116 77.3


http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/cleveland-browns/stats

just cuz...The stat for sacks then yards lost is interesting to me...Hogans 2-4 . does mean he was getting the ball out faster?

Watching Hogan this preseason he looks so much improved over what we seen in his starts last year. I am going to be interested to see if he is listed as 2 or 3 next week.

I think that it was a combination of his protection and his progressions. I was trying to key on his eyes and he seemed to be seeing the whole field, which shows maturity over last season. His accuracy _ feet) has improved and his throwing motion, though far from text book, an improvement just the same.

My guess is 2.

He has looked better than Kessler. And has the ability to run.

I had Hogan rated quite a bit higher than Kessler when they were coming out of college. I still do.

PFF CLV Browns‏


Browns QBs preseason passer ratings with less than 2.5 secs to throw:

Hogan - 111.7
Kessler - 103.5
Kizer - 64.4
Osweiler - 38.8

https://twitter.com/PFF_Cleveland/status/903980791830634497

That was the most impressive part of his performance, going through his progressions, finding the open man, then getting rid of the ball quickly and accurately. Very nice.

It's 'refreshing' to see that from a Browns QB.

When I was scouting Hogan in college, I kept running across how tough he was and what a great leader he was. His coaches and teammates were unanimous in praising him in both areas.

anybody else starting to think Hogan should be starting next week? or the season? I am starting to lean that way heavily.

Yeah, I liked his toughness too.

I would have drafted him over Kessler, only not in the 3rd round...I was looking at 5-6 round.

Not really. He performed well against the backups' backups. He should have. Not knocking what he did, he did well, but I don't think he's had any reps with the 1s and it's a little late in the game now.

yea you're prolly right...it's just we hardly ever see our QB's play like that.

Then again I would really like to see him with the one's lol the man did really light it up the entire half he played against the bears...

I gave Hogan an incomplete when scouting him, because I had no idea if anyone could fix that goofy throwing motion that he had.

If House is the guy that fixed it, he gets major props from me. It's like night and day from what it used to be.

I am not saying I think Hogan should start. I don't like qb controversies.

I will say that I never really bought into the argument of "he did it against backups."

I say this because the qb is also playing w/backups. And anyone who has ever played the game knows that it's easier and quicker to execute competency on the defensive side of the ball vs the offensive side.

There may be some truth to that, but it's still much easier to throw to a wide open target than a well covered one. Chicago had a lot of breakdowns with TE coverage, and our backup WRs looked much better than their backup CBs. Plus, it looked like at least one of their DBs was trying to play hurt (the guy trying to cover Leslie on his TD)

He did what he was supposed to do, and that's all you can ask. I'd like to see him do it in tougher situations before getting too carried away though.

When he did feel pressure in the pocket, I didn't feel as good about his reads. For example, On the play where he nearly got Bailey killed, it looked like Njoku was breaking wide open. It worked out, so I can't complain too much, but that's a throw into double coverage that becomes a tipped pick fairly often.

Our old friend Nate Burleson really likes Kizer. I hope he's right.

Nate Burleson: DeShone Kizer is going to be the world's guy at some point
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...84-2b5fcb66cf4d