DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Trying to Trade Haden

I am confused by the numbers too. I think the basis is set in the fact that there are 2 sets of numbers implications in any contract discussion. The real number which is how much the team will actually pay the player and the cap number.

These numbers often vary greatly. And when people (both board posters and media) talk about the monitary implications thet fail to claify which they are referring to.

At least I think that is where my confusion comes from.

Does Haden have to clear waivers after being cut? or is he free to sign elsewhere?

Thanks

Free to sign elsewhere.

I am not saying that Joe is not drawing interest, I am sure he is and will be in a uniform shortly. But wasn't it Rosenhaus that said there was a ton of interest in JFF not long after we released him?

I don't mean interest from dealers, they want no part of someone who isn't getting a paycheck. I meant other football teams.

I don't like the fact that we released Haden, even knowing that he wasn't our best CB. Hell, he was probably our 3rd best CB, at the time of his release, and was being paid as much as the top 2 combined (exaggerating here).

But the fact of the matter is, our secondary is not as good with Joe gone. That is a simple fact. Whether or not he will slowly return to form after his latest injuries and surgeries or if he'd make the transition to FS is irrelevant. We are a worse team after his release. I'm no NFL GM, but I just can't wrap my head around cutting veterans without a clear-cut replacement already in place. It seems really dumb.

I doubt we'll ever find out, but I hope this was an agreed upon situation with Joe. One of the rumors is he knew he was losing his job, and he didn't want to take a pay cut (his perogative). Instead of getting pushed down the depth chart, he can try to latch onto a team now. It should work out better for him, and (I if understand correctly) will save us more money over the long term.

I dunno, I'm bummed. I'm probably going to pick up a Haden jersey on the cheap. I don't believe he ever fully lived up to his draft hype, but we was a warrior, and a really good dude that embraced Cleveland, even if Cleveland didn't really embrace him all the time.

It's said a lot on here, but it's true for JH. I sincerely wish him the best of luck... except when he's playing the Browns.

PS - Please don't go to the Steelers.

And they'll probably have him cover Kenny Britt..

The cap hit for cutting him is $7,200,000 this year. It would have been $3,200,000 next year.

Both the message board and Rappaport are right in this case.

j/c...
Aditi Kinkhabwala Verified account
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Steelers scheduled to land in Charlotte in a few hours. Both @RapSheet and I are told Joe Haden expected to meet them there.

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Joe Haden played all last year w/ hernia. If Antonio Brown, WR coach Richard Mann both tell Mike Tomlin Haden is still plenty tough, I'd buy

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Andrew Hawkins Retweeted SportsCenter
Watched Joe play thru injuries for 3 years & a few coaches throw him under the bus. Yet, he never called em out or made excuses! #Class

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Rapoport is correct, but is generalizing. Here are the details:

We [obviously] don't have to pay Haden anymore money. His contract counts $10.8M against the cap this season (it would have been $14.4M if he made the team). Next year (2018) Haden will count $3.6M against the cap (it would have bene $14.4M if he made the team). In 2019 Haden will count $400K against the cap (it would have been $10.9M if he had made the team).

Because we cut Haden after June 1st his cap numbers are different. He will only count $7.2M against our cap this year and $3.2M next year (2018).

https://overthecap.com/player/joe-haden/284

We saved $3.6M in cap space this year (which can be rolled over to next year), $10.8M in 2018, and $10.5M in 2019.

We will save $7.2M against the cap this year and $11.2M in 2018.

https://overthecap.com/calculator/cleveland-browns

With all that said, I am kind of shocked that we straight up cut Haden. I don't think the cap savings was enough to justify him not being on the roster (I would totally understand it if we got compensation back).

This makes me think he was just straight up not good enough to play. I don't really see another explanation (other than the team hoarding cap space).

After seeing the new cap numbers I think this is all about money (obviously if Haden were still very good we would just pay him). I don't think the team is being cheap, I think they valued the cap room saved over Haden's potential contribution to the team. I don't know if I agree with that assessment.

Vers,
You are so right. This was PURELY a money move. And you know I'm not one to agree with you. The Browns wanted to lower Haden's contract and he said no. People have to remember, he played hurt last year so it was not a good year for him.

The Browns didn't want to pay him like a #1 DB and was not sure he could still cover like one. Plus, Haden's agent is Drew Rosenhaus so we all know what that means. The crazy thing is that now that Haden is cut, he will not make 11 million this year for sure.

But good luck to a real true Brown's player.

Money ball. Hope this was well played. We'll see. They did try to trade him.

Yeah I just dislike the move amongst many with this organization...he easily would have helped us this year...then again this is why I don't covet spending my Sundays anymore wasting away watching this train wreck...Wish him luck, and hope Calhoun Taylor fair well...because they will be targeted plenty

Money certainly had a lot to do with this move but let's face it, the injuries have taken their toll. Could he have helped us this year I think so but I really believe he isn't the best CB we have now. The salary we were paying him does not equal the performance and I believe that was a big factor. I'm sure we will pick someone up that will help us and maybe develop if it is a young guy.

https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/902938729626697731

It seems like we would have taken anything for him if we were going to cut him anyway.

Kinda hard to trade a declining talent with a huge contract in the NFL. Money ball called and said cut your losses and move on.

He signed with the Steelers.

3 years, $27 mil.

I'm betting there isn't a lot of guaranteed money in that contract.

Dammit.

Who would you rather have start at CB?
McCourty or Haden?

Taylor or Haden?

Boddy or Haden?

How much do you want to pay your 4th Cab?

IF you truly respect Haden and he wants to go somewhere else...what are u supposed to do?

Wow ! well lets see how the contract breaks down. Like most I am sad to see him go. I've been saying all off season I was most worried about our secondary and safety positions. Kindred and Peppers have indicated they may be a better duo than I had hoped ... at CB I was hoping Haden would come back and play like he did before his last 2 injury riddled seasons. I have not seen enough of preseason to know how he looks this year - Guess we will see plenty of him if he is with Pittsburgh.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The performances of Pryor, Britt and Haden are going to be three front and center areas of judgement for Sashi and the FO. Even if they start nailing the draft - if they continually screw up FA it will be a bad omen. I am not willing to judge yet - even though Britt apparently looks mediocre - I think we need at least 8 games from all of them in their new teams before coming to a conclusion.

There are countless Steeler and general NFL fans online and Facebook seeming to think ol' Joe is still in pro-bowl form.

If he succeeds w/ the Steelers, I'm now mad at HIM, not the Browns.

Regardless, I'll hate, hate, HATE to see him in that uniform. And opening day . . .

I liked him as a player..this was a money/performance move ..they want younger healthy players ..but I don't want to see him in a Pukesburgh jersey.

Whyyyy did it have to be Pitt
Any team other than Pitt or Balt and I'd still love him. This totally tarnished his legacy in Cle.
Oh well. Can't blame him for wanting to win for a change I guess.

Until I see any of those guys consistently cover the other teams #1, I'd have still leaned towards Haden.

Saw the Steelers signing coming as soon as I heard about the release. In the short term, not only will we be worse, but a division rival shores up their biggest weakness. Might work out in the long run, but right now I can only shake my head in mild disgust.

Thanks for all that information. I appreciate it.

I havent seen Joe consistently cover the #1 guy in a long, long time.

Hes very washed. Im glad hes in pitt. He used the fans to get paid, and showed in the end that he doesnt care.

Hope Coleman burns the hell out of him week 1. It would be glorious.

Yeah, I keep reading he was our 4th corner. When did this happen? I thought he was starting?

And did someone blame Haden for going to Pittsburgh? LOL Dude, if a team cut me..........I guarantee you I want to go to a team that would give me an opportunity to prove them wrong.

Yeah... as much as I hate to type it, going to Pittsburgh makes a ton of sense for him.

They gave him the contract (from what we can see right now), they're a winning team. He doesn't have to face Antonio Brown twice a season, and he gets to play the Browns. I believe him when he says he loves the city and all that, but we just released him. You KNOW he wants to play really well against us.

Not sure about him being the 4th cb either. Jimmy Donovan did say he thought he was our 3rd best cornerback. That was a few days ago.

He wanted to play for a winner, I don't blame him. He had bigger offers according to the reports.

He was the last of the old guard on defense. As much as I hate to see him a Steeler uniform, it was a good move for him. He is guaranteed to start, and probably get to play in the playoffs.

I laugh at those bitching that we cut him, many wanted to trade Thomas so he could play for a winner, funny no one feels that way for Haden.

IMO, he is not the guy he used to be, but still a good player. I thought after last year he would try to get out of Cleveland, his career is on the downhill side. He was bashed by Browns fans for two years while injured, playing for Pittsburgh will be a way to pay them back.

I believe Haden might have a beef w/the Browns, but I seriously doubt it is w/the fans. LOL

No, we won't since we cut him.

I think it's interesting when people say "moneyball." It's sort of a misnomer. Moneyball isn't about saving money.

Anyone know if he had offset language in his contract? If so, will his new contract take $ off from our cap hit from cutting him? Not that it matters.

Edit: scratch that, it does per PFT
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/30/joe-haden-agrees-to-terms-with-steelers/

I agree. But the fans have turned on him over the past couple years, you have to admit. But the Browns did try to keep him at a reduced cost, so who knows.

But just like any other player, I could care less what happens to him from this point on. I hope we beat them with a deep pass over him. He is a sqeeler now.

Dang... This hurts. I guess I looked at Joe like the guys I loved growing up like Tim Manoa, Gerald McNeil, and Carl Hairston. They were all I knew as the Browns at that point in my life. When players during that time left it was a shock because I didn't realize there would be a time where there would be a team they weren't a part of. Even though I know better now, I guess I just figured Joe was synonymous with Cleveland. Guys like that make me feel like I can still love like I'm a kid. Man... I know he hasn't been the same, but I can't believe he wasn't viewed as being serviceable to this team. We're paying Osweiler 16 million to ride the bench for pity's sake. On top of that he's going to Pittsburgh. Now I have to watch a guy who I thought could be a career Brown wear that uniform.

As far as the money, I'm still confused as to how the 7.3 and 3.6 million in dead money works. When Jimmy Haslam wakes up in the morning and swims laps in his money pool that money will still be there right. It is not changing hands. He just can't spend it, correct? So dead money can be looked at as cost saving because it counts against your cap floor number without having to actually spend real money?

And that draft is getting to be awesome potentially as well. Assume this "fire sale" is getting the roster flexible for our analytics draft following cuts. Haden disappeared in a hurry.

Thanks, Haden. You were my hero for awhile. Wish you the best except when it is the Browns.