DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 28 Colts 31 Post Game Thoughts!

Excellent post, verse.

What are we to make of Hue abandoning the run? Unreasonable to suggest they should think of getting a play caller?

Hue does an excellent job of getting these guys to play at near the top of their talent. But we have no WRers without Coleman and our secondary is still quite bad.

On the bright side, our run defense has been awesome and that is almost entirely because of the new DT rotation and Schobet becoming a monster.

Curious to see how this team looks after Garrett gets out there next week.

We are a young team still trying to find its way, but according to some posters we should be challenging for a super bowl.

I think the answer about the run game has been answered by Bitonio when he said teams are putting an extra guy in the box to stop the run.

The team lacks experience and talent. If Hue kept running the ball against stacked run defenses, people would say he is too predictable and not imaginative enough.

It's always something w/some fans. They have false expectations in the off-season. They call themselves "positive posters." They chide realistic posters and call them "negative" and "haters."

Then, reality sets in and these "positive" posters start calling for guys to get benched and coaches to get fired.

Rinse and repeat.

While true, dont you have to at least give a token commitment to the run? Hue definitely did not do it today given the huge disparity. Its a pretty frequent thing for him right now.

Just so we are clear, I do not want him fired. I think he just needs someone to be more hands on and keep the offense on track. May be too much to be Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator

That's fair. Yes, I wish he would have run the ball a bit more. Especially in the first half.

But man, the sharks are out. [if you know what I mean?]

Browns vs. Colts: 7 Talking Points

A difficult first half sinks the Browns.

by Joe Ginley Sep 24, 2017, 5:15pm EDT


Optimism abounded in the week leading up to this week’s Browns vs. Colts game. Many saw the contest as a chance for the Browns to win their first game of the season against a team that is nearly as inept as the Browns while Andrew Luck sits on the bench.

Instead of an uplifting win, the Browns experienced a disappointing loss defined by an awful first half in which Jacoby Brissett tore the Browns’ defense asunder.

DeShone Kizer orchestrated a comeback to respectability, but the loss still stings.

Here are the takeaways from a third straight loss to start the season:

1. Burned by the blitz: Defensive coordinator Gregg Williams is known for his blitzing, but teams are adjusting to Williams’ strategy. A mobile quarterback such as Jacoby Brissett can be especially deadly to Williams’ defense.

Williams and the defensive coaching staff frequently dialed up risky, 6 and 7-man blitzes in an attempt to disrupt Brissett and throw off the Colts’ offense. The technique did not work so well in many instances.

Here’s why the blitzes didn’t work: The Browns telegraphed them and did not cover well (more on the latter in point #2).

On just about every play, the Browns lined up with four down linemen with 2-3 linebackers. On blitz calls, the Browns lined up with the linebackers on the line of scrimmage. On non-blitzes, only four linemen occupied the line of scrimmage, with the linebackers playing off ball.

Now, if this writer (a relatively well-read football fan, but not a coach) can notice this, then the coaches and experts on the field and in the booth working for the opposing team can definitely see this.

The key to the blitz is its unpredictability. When opposing teams don’t see a blitz coming, the quarterback cannot make adjustments at the line of scrimmage and the center can’t adjust blocking schemes. However, if you telegraph the blitz before the play, the quarterback can audible, call max pass protection with the running back and tight end, then look for a wideout downfield against soft, zone coverage almost always paired with 6 and 7-man blitzes.

A major drawback with big blitzes is the vulnerability to quarterback scrambles. Once the quarterback get past the first line of defenders, there is often no spy or linebacker waiting to attack him once he passes the line of scrimmage. The next line of defense is defensive backs in coverage.

Brissett took advantage of this, twice scampering into the end zone for rushing touchdowns in the first half.

Now, I’m not an NFL defensive coordinator. I don’t study film for a living. However, based on my observations, the Browns are shooting themselves in the foot by telegraphing blitz calls.

It’s part of the reason why the Browns ceded 28 first half points to the Colts, a team that managed 22 combined points in its two games.

NFL: Cleveland Browns at Indianapolis Colts
The Browns did not land enough hits or sacks on Brissett today. Brian Spurlock-USA TODAY Sports
2. Soft zone, hard times: The Browns’ secondary surrendered pass after pass to Brissett, T.Y. Hilton and the Colts. The soft man-zone coverage employed by the Browns hindered the Browns.

The first half saw the Browns burned for 197 passing yards on just 12 passing attempts, or 21.8 yards per completion. That shows how effective the Browns’ coverage was.

As excellent reporter Nathan Zegura told the Browns Radio audience at gametime, the team wanted to limit Hilton by employing man coverage, with Jabrill Peppers over the top as a deep safety. The Browns tried to do just that in the first half, but failed. The Browns’ corners often started with a 10-yard cushion, not jamming the Colts’ wideouts at the line of scrimmage.

Utilizing crossing routes and distraction routes to find space for Hilton, the Colts helped Hilton to haul in 5 catches for 145 yards. The Browns’ corners could not keep track of Hilton, with Jamar Taylor and his fellow backs falling behind the veteran wideout on numerous occasions.

Even with the corners playing man coverage, Peppers was the team’s failsafe. The Browns told Peppers to sit deep and keep an eye on Hilton. Peppers followed orders, but took bad angles to the ball. Hilton’s 61-yard touchdown pass saw Peppers take a poor angle and allow Hilton to charge down the field for an important touchdown.

Peppers will improve. He’s a rookie, and will learn to take better angles. Still, it’s frustrating to watch. Was Peppers the best player to use in that role? Did the Browns’ coaches set up Peppers for failure?

3. Almost the hero: Following two crippling interceptions, DeShone Kizer nearly redeemed himself with two late touchdown drives. The effort came too late, though, as the Browns ran out of time.

Kizer finished with a so-so statline of 22-for-47 passing for 242 yards, 2 touchdowns, and 3 interceptions. The picks will likely stick out to fans, as Kizer twice threw behind his receivers in the third quarter, leading to a Colts field goal and a steeper hill for the Browns to climb.

At the same time, Kizer orchestrated two timely drives, showing no confusion or deer-in-the-headlights looks like many previous Browns’ quarterbacks during two minute drills.

Kizer weaved the Browns down the field for two scores, finding Kenny Britt on a pretty but gritty touchdown throw. Kizer also finished off a drive with a touchdown run, after nearly scoring on a nice scramble. Credit the rookie with finding open receivers and marching down the field on the two drives.

Despite his mistakes in the third quarter, Kizer is improving at knowing when to throw the ball away. Sure, he needs to work on his accuracy, but he’s beginning to look at multiple options more and showing adeptness for finding open options inside the red zone.

Kizer needs plenty of work, especially on his accuracy on intermediate throws. Throwing behind receivers, even catchable balls, leads to interceptions and lost games. Continually relying upon the short game can also bite you in the behind if you don’t occasionally throw deep.

However, Kizer has plenty of promise and showed why he’s the future when he continued to battle and lead his team late in the game.

NFL: Cleveland Browns at Indianapolis Colts
Credit Kizer on a solid day overall at quarterback, despite bad receiver play. Thomas J. Russo-USA TODAY Sports
4. Failure to launch: The Browns’ wideouts experienced a difficult day. Kizer did not receive much help from his wideouts, with several dropped passes and an inability to find open space.

Missing Corey Coleman and Sammi Coates, the Browns started Kenny Britt and Rashard Higgins. The two combined for 5 receptions for 64 yards on 16 targets. Each wideout struggled at times today, though Britt’s touchdown catch was nice.

Each wideout dropped passes, which is concerning. As a receiver, you need to catch the ball if it comes your way. That’s obvious, and sometimes easier said than done, but Britt and Higgins each dropped arguably catchable balls today. Britt also saw a pass clank off his hands and into Robert Melvin’s hands, leading to a key interception. Granted, the pass was behind him, but you have to catch the ball. Besides Britt and Higgins, Ricardo Louis dropped at least two passes.

Dropping passes is not the only thing you should be concerned about. The Browns’ receivers displayed an inability to get open.

With a young quarterback, receivers play an increasingly important role. To help out your rookie, you need to find ways to get open. Come back to the quarterback, run to open space, give your guy an option, and look back for the ball quicker. The Browns’ wideouts did not help Kizer today.

Also troubling is Higgins’ struggle to avoid penalties. Higgins twice committed pass interference, setting the Browns back twice. Hollywood has plenty of promise, but pushing off and costing your team yardage will not help to keep him on the field.

Now, not everything can be blamed on the wideouts. The Browns’ coaching staff opted for a healthy heaping of fly routes. That’s not always the best thing to do with a rookie quarterback still without a tuned internal clock. Waiting for the deep route to come open, knowing a hit is coming, can be a difficult skill to learn for a rookie.

Despite the poor play by some of the receivers, David Njoku, Jordan Leslie, and Duke Johnson all contributed great plays. Njoku caught a touchdown pass in the first half. Duke Johnson galloped for 23 yards on a short pass turned into a long gain. Leslie leaped into the air and hauled down a beautiful one-handed grab, setting up Njoku’s score.

Leslie has a feel-good story, posting a nice message on Twitter today voicing his gratefulness for the opportunity. Leslie has bounced around the last two years and was sleeping on his brother’s couch as recently as last week. It’s nice to see hard working guys like Leslie succeed.

5. Starting to gel: The Browns’ offensive line is starting to improve and show its talent. The Browns’ linemen are beginning to work as a complete unit.

The Browns’ ground game gained traction today before a large deficit forced the Browns to turn primarily to the air. A payday-hungry Isaiah Crowell looked solid, though not incredibly flashy, against the Colts. The Browns’ line opened some space for him, and Duke Johnson, who only saw two carries but notched 23 yards.

It would be interesting to see how the running game performs over the course of a full, 60-minute game in which the Browns do not fall behind early on.

As for the passing game, DeShone Kizer enjoyed more time to work in the pocket. The Browns gave Kizer plenty of time to work, though the rookie experienced trouble in finding an open receiver.

Kizer was only sacked once in the first three quarters, a testament to the line’s ability to pick up blitzes and find time for the rookie. As always, Joe Thomas performed well. His linemates also stepped up, especially JC Tretter. The center helped his signalcaller stay out of trouble and avoid debilitating hits.

The offensive line’s improved play is promising for the rest of the season.

NFL: Cleveland Browns at Indianapolis Colts
Joel Bitonio (right) and the offensive line performed well as a unit. Brian Spurlock-USA TODAY Sports
6. Clogging the middle: The Browns’ interior linemen played quite well. The middle of the defense made running up the middle difficult for the Colts.

Yes, the Browns allowed 31 points, but the Browns’ defensive tackles and defensive ends played quite well in the loss.

Trevon Coley, Danny Shelton, Larry Ogunjobi, and Emmanuel Ogbah all deserve credit on a job well done today. Coley blew up a pair of plays in the backfield. Shelton attracted and fought through double teams well. Ogunjobi showed tenacity in attacking the ballcarrier. Ogbah came off the edge and applied pressure.

The team’s linemen deserve kudos for limiting Frank Gore, a rare exhibit of an “old” running back who keeps on trucking. Gore managed just 57 yards on 25 carries, and the Colts ended with 92 yards on 36 attempts, just 2.55 yards per carry.

7. A game of thirds: The Browns lost the game on third downs. The Browns’ offense scuffled on the critical down, and the defense allowed several big conversions, even on third and long.

To become a better team, the Browns must perform better on third downs. The Browns converted just 5-of-13 third downs on offense and surrendered 8-of-17 third down conversions to the Colts.

For some reason, the Browns exhibited softer coverage on third down plays. Yes, you want to prevent big plays on third downs. But you have to protect the sticks. For some reason, the Browns seemed to ease off coverage on third down. You can’t do that.

On the offensive side of the ball, Kizer’s receivers did not help him. Kizer often ran out of time while waiting for his deep options to come open. Forced to roll out of the pocket, Kizer waited for his wideouts to either come back or sprint downfield and look for the ball quickly. His receivers did neither, not providing Kizer with an option. Without anywhere to throw, Kizer often had to throw the ball away and waste the play, in order to avoid the greater evil of a turnover.

Without a doubt, there is plenty of room to grow for this Browns team.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/9/24/16357774/browns-vs-colts-7-talking-points

Good article. Thanks.

Seems a lot of people still want to find that one person to blame, fire, etc.. that will change everything. When there is more than enough blame to go around.

Let me start with one thing I haven't seen mentioned in the gnashing of teeth.. this team is immediately better with Terrell Pryor and Joe Haden on the team... does it put us in the playoffs? Not likely.. but both are better than what we are trotting out there... and both are gone, for what reason? They wanted more money? What did Pryor want compared to what we are giving Britt to drop 4 passes a game?

As or the game itself.. eventually this team has to run out of the ammo it's using to shoot itself in the foot, right? between dropped passes and offensive PI calls, our WRs cost us almost as many yards as they gained. No way for a young rookie QB to build confidence or get in a groove with that going on.

I still like Williams but a few of the defensive play calls baffled me.. rushing 7 and playing soft on the corners? Isn't the intent of rushing the house to make the QB throw it quick or get hit? If so, how does that jive with playing 10 yards off and basically letting him just make the quick throw? I don't get it.

The turned the game off [and watched RedZone] after the Colts field to go up 17.

Kizer was horrific to start the game. Really, really bad. Unsurprisingly, it seems he did well in garbage time.

The receivers are also really, really bad.

The offensive line looked really good in pass protection.

Jamar Taylor was the worst player on the field. He couldn't cover anyone and gave up on the long Hilton touchdown. Horrible.

Peppers took a few horrible angles on tackles. Playing almost all young players is rough.

The only glaring mistake I saw Hue Jackson make was not challenging the Doyle fumble. Other than that, he's fine.

Duke Johnson is electric with the ball. Most have been saying it for a few years now, but we need to get him the ball more.

Larry Ogunjobi makes a play every week that makes me think, "He should be playing more."

Njoku is a large human.

This is a low point for me as a fan of this team. We are more talented than the Colts, but just made stupid mistakes. Rough times.

We blitzed constantly and almost never got pressure. It's like the Colts knew what was coming.

It was a good article. There was good play mixed in with bad; a trait of a young team. I say stay the course that has been set. Give the team time to improve. The medicine tastes bad right now but it should make things better as the season goes on.

A team with a 1-2 record after 3 games is at least relevant.

An 0-3 team is continuing on into irrelevancy. It's not so much to expect them to win. Young or not.

GC. The Team finaly has a decent collection of respectable wide receivers for the, maybe the first time in a dozen years or more.

These receivers are all able to have upside and make plays.
Sure they might have some drops and some pass interference calls, but the drops show that they are threat downfield

The pass interference calls will get corrected, it's mostly just the officials doing whatever they can to make sure the Browns lose.

I don't know how anyone can look at this team and not believe these are the best receivers, 'collectively" that they've had in a while.

It's the case because they have a group where any one of them can step up and be a #1 overall threat, at any time.
The best are probably
Coleman, Britt, Kassen Williams, Coates, and Louis, or Higgans.

Louis seems kind of non elusive, straigt line, but that's not the end of the world, just doesn't offer what some of the others do.

Even with this. The Browns would be helped to narrow the number of receivers that they are trying to distribute to.

This offense really would work better I believe if they stopped trying to play 4 wide, or 5, and had 2 tight ends, and 2 RB's on the field more often.

Even with all these, adequate choices at WR, they need to make a choice, put fewer on the field, make throws to the runingbacks, make throws to the tight ends, only put those extra "wild card" wideouts in there, a few times a game, to run deep routes and stretch the safeties.

Browns Wr's finaly all have upside.

I'm just not sure what this team should do with Britt?

I figure with Britt, they either should commit to him being the #1 guy, and taking #1 db's from the opponent to cover him, and get the production out of him that allows other guys to get open,

Or
They need to put somebody else in the game and see how they do in Britt's place.

But leaving him in there and trying to place the others on the field at the same time, is just taking up a spot in the 11.

.

I dont know Throw Long... these WRs are very frustrating to watch with all the drops, interference, at the most important times. Kizes needs all the help he can get and he is not getting it.
But with all these drops, penalties, Kizer rookie mistakes, to me, the Defense lost the game today.

I think Crow is fine, it's the run blocking and play calling that's suspect. He ran up the middle for 10 yards a couple of times early on, then we abandoned the run again.

Kizer is showing that he is a rookie in a way that was not displayed in the vanilla preseason. Hogan or even Kessler would be better options if winning now was the focus, starting Kizer tells me that is not the focus but this year is all about next year.

I'm more worried about Hue losing the team than him being fired by Jimmy Haslam at the end of the season. The old 'trust me' line only goes so far without some sort of proof. We fans are more impatient, but the players have to buy in or it's over.

The D adjusted well at the half. First half D was horrid.

Lesie should Start at #1 WR period. Williams at two, Louis/Higgins at 3, Brit/Coates at 4. Let the hungry guys start and help the rookie.

I'm tired of looking for positives in lost games.

nice article above, and I agree: most times our blitz backfires. We don't get there and they make us pay.

I'm interested to see how Williams paints it this week. Last week he was adamant that our D was near-elite ... welp, let's hear it now.

this effort by Taylor in an embarrassment

#Browns - Taylor can get upset blah - horrible. More effort to take a knee than what he gave on this play. Inexcusable. pic.twitter.com/Vr2yyottT6
— Scott Dryden (@BrownsScout) September 25, 2017

https://twitter.com/BrownsScout/status/912137115470893061

Should have won this game. It should have never been 28 to 7 in the first half.

8 dropped passes,, No excuse. You can't drop that many. Penalties, Come on. Way to many..

They have two winnable games coming up.. It's time to win.. stop talking and win.

Man it was a wierd week.. Ravens and Steelers lose to teams they should have beaten.....

Very deflating to constantly see that. Everyone in the DB room going to see that if they hadn't seen it already and I hope the DB coach and Greg single him out and talk about how crappy it was.

I think you have forgotten Peppers. O didn't lose this game, D did, specially Peppers play.

My thoughts and JMO

1. We can never play a complete game, if the offense is clicking (which is rarely) our Def is playing badly - and vice versa

2. Kizer is still holding onto the ball, partly is happy feet and partly is because our WR cannot get open and they refuse to break off routes.

3. I really think we need to run all 3 TE and Duke as our rec'ing corps. They seem to be the only ones willing to catch the ball.

4. I am not really a CROW fan, and I think the RB needs addressed, but we were running pretty effectively early on, and as soon as the team gets up any amount of points Hue just abandons it. Its time Jimmy and Sashi tell him to hire a OC to play call. I like HUE, but he has lost me on his ability to call plays for this team.

5. We are just never prepared. A false start on the punt? How many penalties?

6. We just still have a tremendous lack of talent. Both Defensive side of the ball and offensive. The Def is improved, but they still lack something. Where is that aggressive "gonna get after the QB" Def Williams bragged about all summer? I haven't seen it.

7. While we are talking about the Def, I am over the 40 yards off the ball with peppers. It is leaving the middle of the field WIDE OPEN for TE and WR to run across the middle and get a free 10 yards before Peppers is there to meet them.

ugh, another tough loss, and in one we actually were supposed to win to boot. Ah well, on to the next one.

They lost this game as a team. The offense was pathetic for 3 quarters, only when Indy backed off did we start look good on offense.

To many missed plays on offense. too many drops, not enough talent.

The def played horrible as well. it was the first time this team actually did something cohesively which was stink on all sides of the ball.

daman, i wonder if they still make the jugs machine (i think that is what it is called). if they do the Browns should buy five. after every team practice our receivers should catch balls for one solid hour. there has got to be a way to improve this group.

my biggest disappointment has been our failure to generate pressure with our d line. i know we are missing garrett but these guys should be doing better.

flip side for me is our lb corp. i think they have been the best group on the d so far. best thing I can say about our d backs is that we need to spend two high draft picks on corners.

Same thing said about our offensive line, where we're NOT missing anyone, have a lot of money tied to and the unit is producing like a semi-average line.

I thought I saw Kizer up under Center in the first series, and Crowell had at least one good gainer on a handoff. I don't think I saw it after that. IMO, the running game will sputter until Kizer learns to work under C, because Crowell needs a head of steam to be effective. He's no good from a standing start (handoff from the shotgun).

Our Oline is providing adequate time, our WR cannot get open and Kizer is holding on the ball resulting in sacks. As far as the run game, Crow seems to like to run into our our lineman instead of holes.

Its not the offensive line.

It's their run blocking where I'm most disgusted.

Multiple times Crow has just missed holes. We were running the ball pretty effectively yesterday. What did crow have 12 for 46?? That's 3.83 per carry, not that bad. We just stop running the ball.

But Crow is backup in my mind. Unless the hole is directly in front of him, hes not going to hit it.

That is sugarcoating Peppers and the D play, IMHO.

Ravens game its on the O and the QB, PIT and Indy its is square on the D shoulders, and in the Indy game, square on Peppers safety play not even the D calling, IMHO.

A majority off the posts, like always, are placing the blame on the O and on Kizer, specifically, when IMHO,we could be standing 2-1 easy, if the D in general and Peppers in particular had average games.

D play is horrid, and Peppers can't play the safety position, not even SS, he's a MLB at best, or a special teams player.

can anyone explain how its peppers fault Williams has him playing 40 yards off the ball?

No single 2016 and 2017 top draft pick is performing at top level, most of them are poor performers.

If we continue to draft like this, we are not getting there.

Ans its Williams fault the poor angles he takes?

The lack of ball hawk instincts and positioning?

Maybe its his fault drafting him for this position, that I cannot tell... or not assuring we had a viable backup or plan B, until Peppers can play the position at NFL level.

Last week Williams said that Peppers plays because we don't have anyone better.

An like that he will ruin a round 1 draft pick. Nothing good can come out of playing unprepared players.

You need to gameplan around the players you have, not try to make a square peg into a round hole.

Peppers his whole career at Mich was able to roam the field, and make plays on the ball. Not sit back and have to wait. That's not his game, and using him like is a horrible gameplan.

j/c

Where is the fire Gregg Williams thread? Just kidding, sort of.

I hope this game dispelled the myth that we're fine at the WR position. If there actually was one. Pushing off to get open does not a WR make. In every game you'll have a few drops, but ten?

When a play dictates that your running play goes to the right, you run to the right. When there's no hole on the right side, you don't gain yards. Shone Coleman is not a legit RT.

When your D gives up 31 points to a back-up QB, you can blame everyone but them, but the Colts had scored 9 and 13 points the previous two weeks. While some fans tried to debate the points, many of us knew that our secondary and WR corp were pretty much devoid of talent. And that's exactly what we saw.

I agree with all of your post, except the Shon Coleman bit. I don't think we know yet. He's only started three games in the NFL.

While I agree that it's only been three games, there are certain tangibles that a RT must possess that I see missing. His footwork and mobility seem severely lacking to me. His skill set seems much better suited as an interior player.

For all of our sakes I hope that I'm wrong and that he progresses to the point that he fills the roll. But I'm just not seeing him as having the skill set to make that happen.

Crow does not run hard. When you see him then see the effort duke puts in, it's night and day. Crow needs to stop thinking about the money he wants and go out and earn it