DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer

Apologies, Willie. I didn't see the bolded part. Also, I should've been clearer with this:



I meant that in a general sense, meaning you, me, us, all of us, or anyone.

There may come a point where he needs to sit (if he regresses for example) but we're certainly not there yet. (Not saying you feel we are.)

It's all good

FWIW...every fan I speak with in person is on the same page as we are regarding the need to keep playing DK and that there is no reason to pull him at the moment.

Aaron Rodgers knows Mitchell Trubisky can get better on the bench

Aaron Rodgers knows firsthand the benefit of a young quarterback watching for a few years, and he believes Mitchell Trubisky can improve without playing.

Of course, the realities of Brett Favre and Mike Glennon may not allow for the same apprenticeship, but the Packers quarterback is still a fan of the long-term approach.

“There’s a lot of growth that can happen sitting on the bench,” Rodgers said, via Rich Campbell of the Chicago Tribune. “You can really gain in confidence every single day of practice. You can come along at your own speed. You’re obviously not dealing with the pressure every week of having to perform, which is a real thing. You come along and learn the league, learn how to be a professional and learn how to take care of your body.”

The Bears have insisted that Glennon is their starter, and they don’t seem in a rush to make the inevitable change. Since Glennon’s probably not headed to the Hall of Fame, it’s likely to be inside the three-year window which Rodgers got to develop as the quarterback of the scout team. But Rodgers said those reps against the Packers starting defense were key.

“You’re taking some chances on the [scout team],” Rodgers said. “Knowing how to fit balls in spots or use your eyes for some major eye-control stuff and some look-off plays. Just working on things every single day. . . .

“Work on my fundamentals. Work on my footwork; try and get my timing down. Try and put some of the plays that we were running of the other team’s into our language, so you start to work on timing up drops with the receiver routes. And just going through your progressions. Putting together some of the fronts with the shell and the coverage and the pressures. Just trying to treat those like really important reps every day.”

Trubisky has said he operates with similar daily principles and goals as he quarterbacks the Bears scout team. And he made a good impression on Rodgers during the preseason.

“He made a lot of plays, ran around, did some good things from what I saw,” Rodgers said. “But mentally it takes a while to learn the offense and, more importantly, start to learn defenses. Obviously, the game is a little different preseason to regular season.”

Rodgers said he’s been impressed with the snaps he’s seen from Trubisky in the preseason, and the Bears can only hope their first-rounder turns out anything like the Packers quarterback, whenever he takes the field.

https://sports.yahoo.com/aaron-rodgers-knows-mitchell-trubisky-113504649.html

We should have won last week. We didn't.....got to win the games expected.

I just don't see the improvements....ok he went from 20 somet
hing to 50 or so....big deal. you aren't going to win with that

Roll with kizer to another 1-15 season ...great. we should be 3-2 after week five. More like 0-5 now

I hope it's more than 1-15 .... but with that said, I'm more interested in long term (years) growth and improvement than short term wins.

Say Hogan starts and is serviceable for 10 weeks then we throw Kizer in and in the final 6 games we learn "Not Enough" to know what he is going to be .... then what? Waste a high draft pick on another rookie QB just in case??? Don't draft a QB and discover Kizer is a dud.

One thing I am 99.9% sure about is that Hogan is not the franchise QB this team needs. No need to start him.

I'll admit that even with 16 games it still might not be a sure thing that we'll be able to accurately eval Kizer's ability to be a franchise QB ... but a 16 game sample is going to give you more than a 6 game sample.

Just clicking...
Not sure why.. do any of you realize there were 8 dropped passes... do any of you realize that there's always 2 receivers within 5 yards of each other... Is that Intentional ? Play calling or bad route running ? The coaching staff needs to fix that ..

Yup eight drops, three picks, and a Partridge in a pear tree.

I said it once, an I'll say again brother.

When we start 0-5 instead of 3-2 (like it should be).

I'll revist this thread then. My opinion on kizer is weeden 2.0...could be wrong but not looking like it

That was funny.

Kizer has no one to throw to.

He is always trying to make filet mignon out of ground chuck.
And not even good ground chuck, the mcdonalds quality ground chuck.

Dont expect miracles. We need some better WR and an OC who knows what he is doing.

Kizer is learning on the job and he is only one of about a 100 or so people involved in how this team plays. None of them are very good at their jobs right now. Except Joe.

If you think Kizer is Weeden 2.0 - then I understand 100% why you think we should start Hogan!

Kizer is also 8 years younger and has much more touch than Weeden ever showed. Kizer shows glimpses of greatness that Weeden never showed.

Lipstick on a pig, a young pig at that, and is starving for some help.

If it won't show on the field, it is a luxury for later; move on to something that will help him now.

If it hurts the team, it cannot be ignored. If it is Kizer's fault, own it and fix it. If it someone else's fault, nail it down and fix it; or change it to something more manageable. Place a premium on eliminating mistakes and avoiding them.

j/c:

The one thing I've been impressed with his Kizer's ability to stay in the pocket and move up rather than away. As opposed to someone like Goff (and other young Qbs of the past) who keeps back peddling making tougher throws to receivers and creating unecessary distance. I'm glad Kizer has shown the ability to do the opposite, for the most part. Now, he just need to learn to get rid of the ball quicker and become more accurate.

Let me start by stating frankly, I AM NOT SAYING DESHONE KIZER IS OR WILL BE PEYTON MANNING!

OK, with that said...Here is what Manning did his first game as a pro:
21-37 56.8% comp 302 yards 1 TD passing/0 TD rushing and 3 INTs 0 fumbles
Second game, he regressed:
21-33 63.6% comp 188 yards 1 TD passing/0 TD rushing and 3 INTs 1 fumble lost
Third game, he regressed:
20-44 45.5% comp 193 yards 0 TD passing/0 TD rushing and 2 INTs 0 fumbles
After 3 games he was:
62-114 54.4% comp 683 yards passing/26 yards rushing 2 Total TDs and 9 turnovers


DeShone Kizer:
18-21 66.7% comp 222 yards 1 TD passing/1 TD rushing and 1 INT 0 fumbles
15-31 48.4% comp 182 yards 0 TD passing/0 TD rushing and 3 INT 1 fumble lost
22-47 46.8% comp 242 yards 2 TD passing/1 TD rushing and 3 INT 0 fumbles
After 3 games he is:
57-108 52.8% comp 646 yards passing/87 yards rushing 5 Total TDs and 8 turnovers

Again, in no way am I saying DeShone Kizer is destined to become Peyton Manningesque. What I am saying is there is no way to define a players career off of his first 3 games or even his rookie season.

j/c:

I've been busy and haven't had time to post this week, but it is way too early to say if Kizer or Hogan is a franchise qb or not. We don't have nearly enough data to even guess on it.

I didn't want Kizer to start, but now that he is, we have to roll w/him.

Defiantly he has to take care of the ball much better than he has.

I should've been born into a wealthy family. Kizer is where he is right now, and so is the rest of the team. Having the expectation of winning right now is simply setting yourself up for disappointment. There are definitely things that need correcting. The FO botching the entire WR corp and Hue's incessant need to run his offense in the face of evidence that the team isn't tooled to do that, for example. But that doesn't mean they aren't, can't or won't improve moving forward.

I can see you're disgruntled, and have been for much of this year. It may be the accumulative effect of perennial losing, and I can certainly understand that. But I think there is hope, Peen. I feel we are making progress as an organization, and as a team. For the first time since Couch, I believe we have a QB who can grow and compete in this division for a long time. I also feel we have a coaching staff and an FO that can turn this franchise around. IF they're given more than two or three years.

JMHO

DK was a rookie that was not near ready to play in the nfl when he was named the starter ...

DK is now playing like a rookie qb that was not ready to start in the nfl ...

And some are shocked .... that makes sense ... *shrugs*

He's not ready and Hue is not doing him any favors .... no ones said it but lets be honest with ourselves for a second .... pretty sure u won't see any of this in the "how to break in a rookie qb " handbook ..

- abandon the running game way to early every game ...
- underutilize your best offensive player week in and week out
- hurt your running game cause rookie qb doesn't know how to play under center (that may be a hint hes not ready .. but thats just me .. )
- NEVER roll him out ... ESPECIALLY when he scrambles out of the pocket he throws the ball away instead of runs out of bounds ... when he stands in the pocket he just stands there while being engulfed and takes the sack .... i got so frustrated watching that last game ...
- appearantly give him to much of the playbook ...

Hue was up against it ... a very difficult task ... very very difficult .. add to the self inflicted stuff from Hue above the fact our recievers are pretty brutal ,,, talk about a stacked deck .. but hue is not making it easier for him ...

I'm not sure whats going on in hues head .... i just know he doesn't seem to be handling dk well at all .... and I'm not talking about the decision to start him ... i didn't like it ... but its not like hue had another even ok choice ... the saying is " he was the least of all the evils" .. well in this case hue picked the evil with the most upside and potential ....

U made the choice hue ... please start helping the kid out ... please ... he needs it ...

I would tend to agree with you if I felt there was a better option.

I just don't. I think we would have the exact same record if Hogan were our starter. So to me the question is this. Do we lose with a QB who will never have the skills to be a franchise QB? Or do we lose with a QB who has enough raw talent that he may actually develop into an NFL QB?

Jared Goff ...

The argument that were going to know weather DK's the guy or not if he plays is literally a joke .... literally ... tabber said it best when he said thinking u can know if someone's the guy after their rookie years is fools gold ..... and he's right ....

Examples on both sides are plentiful ....

RG3 and Kap were having their busts started after their rookie years ... neither of them has even come close to who they were their rookie years since then ... one played so bad hes entirely out of football a mere 4 or 5 years later .... the others out of football cause hes a moron, but its not like hes any good anymore .... he regressed quite a bit .... well below average .... based on talent the bafoon would be in the nfl ....

Obviously were not getting that scenario out of DK ... *L* ...

On the other side of that coin you need to look no further than last year and Mr. Goff ...

I agree he needs to stay out there ... but thats not one of the reasons .... no way ... you'll have more info than if he sat ... but u still won't have near enough ...

Anyhow ... i agree with u he needs to stay out there ... but i couldn't agree less that one of the reasons is because we need to know if hes our future or not ...

He needs to learn to many things before hes ready to play the game at the nfl level ... hes way to RAW to be starting in the nfl .... way to RAW .... how do u evaluate a guy thats in an advanced calculus class and hes barely ready for algebra because he just learned how to multiply and divide ...

Its hard enough to evaluate a rookie based off his rookie season ... thats hard as hell ... throw into it the fact that DK is possibly the least prepared qb to start his first game as a rookie and you have no chance ...

Christ bone .... he can't even take a snap from under center ... and thats killing crow ... he seems to have NO VISION running out of the gun ...

But hes starting ... so please start helping him Hue ..

Kizer will play until he can't or the season is over. Hue has hung his hat on getting him some experience, period. Even a regression would not be enough for him to be benched imho. This is another tanked season.

I don't think it is a "tank" The coaches and players WANT TO WIN. It just isn't feasible with the level of experience at this point.

Despite anything stated to the contrary in the press, I'm pretty sure this was the case long before camps & OTA's.

This is nothing more than the first year of building. Last year it was torn down and the foundation somewhat stabilized - but, mostly just torn down. This year that foundation is truly in place, but there is a LOT left to build.

It wouldn't take too many huffs & puffs to blow this house down, as we've seen three times already this season.

j/c:

A few more thoughts:

--One guy keeps repeating the Browns are 1 and 18 under Hue. He never mentions they are 1 and 18 under the FO. I call bias.

----Another blowhard says that Hue is not doing Kizer any favors, as if he really understands qb play.

--I predicted both would be calling out Hue early. It wasn't hard to predict. A black man smart enough to coach "our team?" LOL.....I saw it the from the beginning w/those two.

--I also see some are putting the decision to start Kizer all on Hue. I kinda doubt that. I think this was a Sashi decision who corresponded w/Hue.

--Here is my bottom line: We blew up the roster last year. The owner said it was a "multiyear rebuild." People were okay w/that. They even praised it. We heard the same old crap about how "these guys finally get it" and "we're doing it right this time."

Of course, reality set in and now it is the blame game. How many times do people have to get hit in the head before they learn that the same stupid thought processes of overestimating the potential of the team and then blaming people for reality is as dumb as it gets?

I've been busy, but man, some of this crap is intolerable and a huge turnoff.

Good thing you're back to straighten everything out!

Yeah, that's hilarious.

I wish we'd have lost a couple of those pre-season games... winning all four, as stupid as it is to assign that much value to a preseason performance, still really elevated people's expectations of this team.

We are, at best, a four win team this year. We WILL be picking Top 5 in April - with our pick, not Houston's. We might be there with Houson's, too, but that's beside the point.

This team will get better and play better as they make fewer mistakes as the season goes on, but it is going to be a bumpy, rocky, rollercoaster and we will not sniff .500 ball.

I think the largest thing to deflate the enthusiasm was the loss to Indy. We lost to a bad team, indicating we ourselves was worse and any expectations we did have vanished at that point.

Our only thing we really have (because MG coming back isn't going to make us solely win games now) is that we do indeed improve. Improvement, regardless of winning, is ALL we have to hope and look forward for... ALL.

Clearly Kizer has NFL measurable... Strong Arm, Great Size, Running Ability ... BUT, he is a rookie, he holds the ball way to long, and trys to force the ball into tight windows, so am I ready to bench him? Absolutely not ... GO BROWNS

But winning those preseason games was so important to establishing a winning culture. LOL.

Add inaccurate at times to that list.

All the negatives that are mentioned about DK are simply due to the fact he is very young and trying to adjust to the speed of the NFL. Not to mention learning a new system and playbook. I feel he is doing ok and just needs ample time. It would help if our WR's would get more separation and stop dropping passes.

his inaccuracy is my biggest concern, by far. it's something that doesn't improve THAT much. It's why, if we think Kizer is the answer, we MUST get GOOD wrs

There's no doubt he's a rookie and has had some difficult defenses to attend. His mistakes are correctible and he, again no doubt, has each physical attribute you'd want for a QB... but he's failing. I do agree to the point and have said it elsewhere myself, our WRs are NOT helping him.

Hopefully when the true demon speed of the NFL secondaries and fronts catch up to him, he learns the timing and gets that mental clock - if not, he'll "just be another QB come n' gone" here. It's clear he's our starter and this staff isn't going to change that if he's able to play - so, we can all hope he truly is learning and improvement is on the horizon.