DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 2007 Heisman Trophy winner Troy Smith quarterback Ohio State University

I'd still take my list...

P. Manning 6'5"
Palmer 6'5"
Roethlisberger 6'5"
Brady 6'4"
Rivers 6'5"
Young 6'5"
Leinart 6'5"
E Manning 6'4"
Hasselbeck 6'4"
Bulger 6'3"

You want to play fantasy football with your qbs against mine? And how the heck did you leave Favre off of your 6'2" and under list? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Height and arm strength are the most overrated measurables in judging a QB. I could care less about height. Care a bit more about arm strength.

What I really care about is the accuracy, the ability to read a defense and make sound decisions, the poise in the pocket, the leadership capabilities, and the ability to thrive under pressure.

Smith passes those tests with EASE. Not to mention he understands the importance of beating your rivals (do you think he'd be rattled in Heinz Field? Hell no)

Let me ask you guys this: Is Ohio State #1 with Justin Zwick instead of Troy Smith? HELL NO!

Doh'..... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Being an OSU fan, I think of it this way. If we go out and get solid players for the OL and DL this year in free agency........I would draft Adrian Peterson. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So you would have taken LeBron over Carmelo if LeBron had been 5'11"? That was the question,was it not?

He passes those tests in college. Just like Crouch did. Just like many that never made it in the pros. Apples to oranges and history proves that.

Good luck with your theory. Most NFL scouts don't go by theories,they go by the measurables. And that's their term,not mine.

Then let's just go find a midget with a noodle arm if that's the case. if height and arm strength aren't important, I would guess many of the posters on this message board could play QB in the NFL. As long as the guy is accurate and can make good decisions, he can be a star right? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Very few players in the NBA are 5'11", even then, Iverson had a great career despite being "too short to succeed in the NBA."

What's the big deal about short QB's anyways? Seeing over the line? PLEASE! It's mostly about throwing lanes.

Garcia stunk in Cleveland, but he's done pretty well in San Fran and Philly.

Vick was never a true QB in the first place (Neither is Eric Crouch, for that matter).

Drew Brees is simply the man.

It's not about height, it's about heart.

HELLO, very few QB's (like ONE) are 6'0'' in the NFL. How can you acknowledge that argument in the NBA but ignore it for your boy in the NFL? <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

What about Mugsy B.? He was about as tall as I am....5' 7" wasn't he? And he had a career in the NBA.

Like I've said before.........let Charlie and DA do what they do best for the rest of the season and let the powers that be make the decisions, for we are only armchair coaches <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I think they go by a grading process.

For a QB I would assume it would look like this....

Size...
Speed...
Arm Strength....
Accuracy....
Field Awareness...
Blitz Recognition....
Pocket Awareness...
Mobility..
Leadership...
Attitude....
Misc...

I would assume they grade out each attribute and give the player a final rating. The size might curve Troy Smith's rating, but I doubt it cancels him out all together.

You make it seem like...."Troy Smith, QB OSU....Hey, he's 6'0....rejected"

Scott Wright is a pretty well respected draft analyst and he lists Smith as a 3-star NFL prospect.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/troysmith.html

Pretty much reinforces the opinion that many on this board have. If he were taller, he'd be more of a consideration. Many scouts/coaches will tell you a guy with all the PHYSCIAL tools can be taught and coached to make better decisions, read defenses etc, etc, etc. On the flip side, a coach can't do anything to make a player physically grow......

No one is saying he won't succeed, they are however saying that he doesn't need to find out in Cleveland. We have more pressing needs.

How about Platform Cleats? <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> Can ya dig?

Nas dont be bashing a cleveland kid and calling him "our boy" because some of us feel he can be better than the crap we have. His is from cleveland and he has been more clutch than any College football player that the midwest has seen in a long time.

All TS has done in Big games is get it done.

I am not saying he is a savior, I am not saying we take a QB with our first pick but for petes sake dont come here and huff and puff about Hart, Henne and Edwards all the time when NONE of them EVER won a game against this kid. It sound's like sour grapes.

But I am asking you to and go ahead take up the argument that taking TS could be any less intelligent than it was to take a WR at #3 two years again when we still had the same line problems. Lets hear it, and then tell me how TS cant possibly be as good as our current QB's.

DAYUM.... Hold on to your caps cause this thread is about to start spinning... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And where is it you want Troy to play again?
<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This is the AFC North. Look around our division and what do you see at QB again? This is a physical division. Much pressure and abuse in our division. No domes,no artificial turf. No OL,no running game.

So you want a kid 6' and 215 in the pocket? Good luck with that.

I love how you come on here and attack the Michigan fan, when there are plenty other OSU fans saying the same damn thing. Quit drinking the OSU kool aid.

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

There's a lot of difference in saying he's "better than the crap we have",even though you have no idea what we do or don't have.
<img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

And saying he's worth an overall top 10 pick in the draft. Now which one of these are you trying to say?

Pit I can't help but wonder if these same people would consider Frye and Anderson "crap" if OSU didn't have a good qb who they hope would replace them...

Heck DC,I wonder if these same people saw Troy playing with our OL,dropsy WR's and total lack of a running game for 16 games would be calling him "crap" and would be wanting to draft "the flavor of the month" then?

Pit and DC,
Well right now, Troy is BETTER than our 3rd string QB. He could take Dorsey out right now!!.. The question is do we draft him or do we need him, and that answer is no! I think the kid will be OK in the NFL but Browns need a oline, dline, a CB right now!! If Troy was available in mid to late 2nd round, I might think about it unless there was some O or D lineman that I could pick up. BTW - The same people who doubt Troy were the same people stating that V.Young could not play the position either! The is a certain intangiable thing called being a winner that cannot be measured!!!

Which is essentially what Pit and I have been saying.. First round, or high second round is a wee bit early to draft a guy that you feel comfortable can supplant the #3 guy on the depth chart... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I like Smith, think he was great in college, think he may be good in the NFL, but he's not one of those once-every-ten-years types of players that you just have to go get... build the OL and the DL and if we need a qb, there will be others as good as Troy Smith next year and the year after.... who can come into a much better situation... the only problem for some is that guy next year might not come from OSU.

BOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />AND THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!!!!

that's unfair...

i don't want troy smith because he's a local kid, or that he went to osu, like a lot of you guys assume...

i want the guy that wins big games... and those are the once every 10 years type of player... nobody can argue that...

i can't disagree with the fact that quinn has more upside... but i'm sick of seeing this organization draft on upside... troy is a winner, a proven winner...

and what is this organization's biggest problem? beating our rivals...

hm....

and i love the people that bash anyone on here that talks about drafting a buckeye... they mention one guy and all of a sudden people make it out to be like he wants the whole team drafted...

Remember this post LeBron?

Well,DUH!!!!!!
<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

and do you remember me telling you that you can build an offensive line without wasting first round picks?

welll duh!!

What I am saying Pitdawg is people here are saying that he will be a bust. I am saying that he cannot possibly be worse than any of our current QB's. I didnt say take him with our #1, i didnt say that we should draft a QB but for people to just automatically say he wont make it is a freaking joke. I mean ask anybody not from cleveland who the hell Charlie Frye & Derek Anderson are and THEN tell them that they are the #1 & #2 QB for the Cleveland Browns. When they finishing laughing THEN tell them that you would be against taking a guy like Troy Smith.


I guess i shouldnt try to have an opinion on the QB situation as it we need far too many other things. A real QB couldnt possible help this team. Charlie will come around someday. I mean someday Edwards will catch the ball, someday Andra Davis will meet somebody in the hole with some authority, someday we will win a divisional game........

but hey stay the course were almost there!!!!

he isnt the flavor of the month either Pit. Many of us have been wacthing this kid for 3 years. (sorry DC)

What was the last line of your post?

"who's talking about the "QB's, RB's, and WR'S"?

Answer? YOU ARE!
You said nobody was talking about it,not me. Everybody can see it now. That was my point. You diss somebody refering that nobody was talking about those positions. When less than a wekk later,it's you yourself talking abou that very thing!

I'll let everyone else look at the evidence concerning your credability and validity upon looking at the evidence. From the evidence,I quickly reached my conclusion.

<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

i'm just tired of hearing the whole "well no qb could win with our offensive line and running backs"

i say bs...

the cowboys' offensive line to start the year got ripped, they were called one of the worst lines in the league, their running game gave them nothing... and now?

look what leinart is doing in arizona with a horrendous line, they aren't quite winning ballgames, but you can see a future with him there.. i don't see that now...

the quarterback makes his offensive line and running game work, just as it the line makes the qb and running game...

don't talk about my credibility, as i have already told you that you can build an offensive line without having to use your first round draft picks, just as most other teams around this league have...

my credibility? are you kidding me? is that a joke..

please...

not to mention that i have stated that i do want troy smith, but i said that horses do need to be put ahead of him...

just because i don't agree with your opinion (because that is just what that is) doesn't mean my credibility needs to be questioned, especially by someone like you...

what an absolute joke...

not to mention that you can't use every draft pick on an offensive line, at some point you do have to address other positions

this kid is classic... seriously...

and thats worked so well for us in the past. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

2119 you have been guilty as anybody bringing your Michigan bias to this board and interjecting into your posts.

I never said there werent any OSU fans here that dont want to take Smith, and I havent even been saying we should as we have other needs but to just discount TS becuas" he is too short" when we have the QB juggernuat of Frye & Anderson is a joke.

We have taken risks with our last 4 number one picks, it isnt a sure thing and I cant think of any reason that Smith is any more a gamble than anyone we have taken with our number one in the last 4 years.

No matter what though, I am not going to let a freaking woverine fan tear the kid down.



Oh by the way.....wheres your old sig line???

Hey Pit do you remember the people who were pinmping for us to take a certain Ohio State kicker with our first round pick a few years back <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> I can't seem to find any of them around anymore.

and also, if we get slotted in the top 5, do we really want to take a lineman? i mean i love joe thomas, and i think i'd be ok with it..

but why don't you ask the raiders how they're doing with robert gallery...

my opinion? if you rated OL on 5 star scale, i'd rather have 2 4 star guys, than one 5 star guy... you can get 4 star lineman in the 2nd and 3rd round...

i just love this kid blasting anyone who doesn't agree with him...

LIKE OMGZ YOUR CREDIBILITY IS GONNAA TAKE A HIT!@!@#!@ LOLZ!!@!@!

please...

I'm just trying to be logical. I don't think anyone is saying he's going to be a bust. I don't think there's anyone here who wouldn't like to see him in Cleveland.

But do you think he'll be here by round three? Do you really think when looking at his measurables that it's worth risking more than a third round pick on him?

See,mostof us realise he won't be around later. there are "top notch teams" that have far fewer needs than we do that will probably give him a shot earlier,but can we afford to take that gamble with the needs we have in the trenches?

See,we pretty much have to try to go for "sure things" in the first two rounds. At least as sure a thing as you can find on paper. And Troy doesn't quite fit that mold. So I think a lot of the detracters here,at least me,are refrancing directly towards that.

That's my opinion anyway. I don't think he's worthy of a top 10 pick given his measurables. That's not saying he will be a bust or that he can't make it in the NFL. I just feel we're not in the catbirds seat to take that kind of gamble on an undersized QB.

Baltimore? Well,they're winning the division and have far less needs than we do. They are in a better position to take such a gamble. A lot of it has to do with where your team stands and how many needs you have as to what you can and can't do in terms of taking chances in the draft.

And IMO Troy is simply a bigger gamble than many athletes that will be available at our positions in round 1 and 2. That's the only statement I'm trying to make here.

Well than why are we taking WR & TE's than 2119 with our first pick than??

Hell what is one more??

I mean wasnt there a good O-line prospect the year we selected B-eazy??

people act as if the fate of the team rests on first round draft picks...

and um.... not exactly.

i look at past drafts of teams around the nfl, and some of the nobodies they have drafted in the first rounds... and these teams have gone on to become good football teams, regardless of their bad picks...

good football teams are built on the mid-to-late round guys... that will be the bulk of your team... depth means more than anything else in this league and what i just said is a reason why...

the chicago bears have busted more times than not in the past 10 years with the first round, they make their team with middle rounds and late picks... in the past 10 years the only 2 players to do anything are urlacher and tommie harris, with benson still a question mark, the rest of these guys aren't even in the league anymore... 7 fails out of 10 times? and yeah, chicago just had their 2nd straight 10 win season, and are heading to the playoffs for the 3rd time this decade...

Yeah,I remember. Now?
It's a "6' on a good day" QB with a top 10 selection??????
<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Yeah,I got blasted when I pimped Levi Jones,Plaxico Burress,and Marcus McNeill. But I'll stand buy it!
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But yeah,we'll be hearing how he's "top 10 material" From the real draft guru's around here. We've been through enough drafts on these boards to know who's opinions to watch and who's to dismiss. I doubt,from looking around here today,that it's going to change much.

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

The only measurable that concerns anybody is the height. I mean I havent saw enough information to decide if the average NFL lineman is taller than the avergae college lineman.

I know he isnt Top 10 but there will be an opportunity to trade down (i know easier said than done) and this draft is looking lke there is going to be a big drop-off after pick 4-5. We need to use that too our advantage. I would be willing to trade down to get a guy like Jake Long & Troy if it could be had. Hell why cant we swing a deal to help our team? We sure go far enough to allow our division rivals to get the player they want.

i don't remember anyone pimping nugent for the first round...

and i don't think pimping a guy who's leading the nation's number one team is the same as pimping a kicker for the first round, so please don't put us in that category

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

So that's the perfect excuse to gamble with it and not go BPA? That's the excuse you're using to make a reach in round 1? If everybody did that,you'd have a lot more first round flops than you see now.