DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mr. Kizer

We weren't done talking ... or at least i wasn't ... *L* ...

post from Jester ...

I think both Brees and Brady significantly improved their arm strength after coming to the NFL. I cannot come up with an accuracy example but I think that is harder to observe. You need to watch more plus those with accuracy issues that are bad enough that improvements are obvious don't typically get the chances.
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What if dogs chewed your shoes because shoes are the last thing you put on before you leave?

Hmmmm ... they could be two examples of significantly improved arm strength ... definetly could be .... wish there was a way to measure it cause these two guys (especially Bree's) would be great test studies ....

And if it can be done, it would have to be done by HARD WORKING DEDICATED guys and both these guys have gone above and beyond ...

Thanks Man ... i need to think about this and then I may have to re-think my position on how much arm strength can be improved once a QB has reached the nfl ....

Woops. Same time. Lol. Refs delete mine.

Bree’s attributed his arm strength change to core training.

Ya ... he needs to show respect in the thread title like i did ... kids these days ... *LOL* ...

That'd be my guess ... Brady's diligence and work ethic are well documented ... Bree's isn't near Brady with the eating .. but the training aspect ... hes right there ... and hes always been a core strength training type of guy ...

Damm it ... i love when i learn but hate when I'm wrong ... *L* ...

On a side note ... i said draft day that SD RAPED ATLANTA in that trade because i thought Bree's would be a better nfl qb than Vick ... i had no clue LT would become who he did at that time ... *L* ...

And i actually thought Bree's would be better cause Vick was to innacurate ... no way was it cause i thought Bree's would become who he did ... i liked Bree's cause of his accuracy and brains ... only question on his was arm strength, well that and height ... (ND fan .. liked watching him when we played them so i watched him every chance I got ... him being at Purdue if i remember correctly meant that wasn't often ... *L* .. )

Eric Zeier. Tab...please refrain from bringing up such memories.

Might want to keep an eye on Riely Ferguson out of Memphis ! Young 6'4'' man is putting up some big numbers this season.

Already looking at QBs?

We're always looking lol, there's absolutely nothing new there.

You bet ! I am a Browns fan .. lol

I'm always looking at qb's ... position really intrigues me ... and so many things have changed over the last 20 years in high school and qb play that its led to a serious lack of talent at the nfl level ...

Add to that all the nfl rule changes have lent themselves big time to opening up the passing game and the lack of talent coming in is really highlighted ...

water ... thanks for the heads up water ...

Have u seen him play? If so, your take on him please ...

You know i'm all about QB eval.
But, looking in a general sense is much different then what eotab meant.
He's looking for a replacement for Kizer after 4 games.
And talking about that right now is crazy.














All I have for Mayfield is a general impression...and I like his moxie and athleticism. Beyond that I haven't drilled down enough.

I have only watched part's of two games .. To early for me to make a call .. I was all over Josh Allen from Wyoming , but he has had a rough season so far .. Will continue to watch and give you an up date after I have more time studies .

Now he has the size and in my opinion the arm .. He seems to have a kinda field general presence about him .. But like I said , small sample .

j/c & FWIW

J Cherry on the pre-game radio out of Cleveland is pretty high on Kizer this morning. His takes as a former player are better than many ex-players IMO.

My take from him is that he thinks the lack of support/play/execution around Kizer is a bigger problem than Kizer's own shortcomings/inexperience - while he is STILL acknowledging Kizer's own issues.

BTW...it's worth downloading the Cleveland Browns app and listening to the pre-game talk on the "RADIO" on that app. Good stuff there. Not too high or low for the most part.

Kizer had been let down by drops...penalties that turn 3rd and 3 to 3rd and 18 he's now pressing and trying to do to much on his own shoulders...predictable play calling isn't helping

He has also been horribly inaccurate.

The wrs inability to seperate and hold on to the ball is more concerning than his inaccurate throws
Give him DeAndre Hopkins and Will Fuller instead of the 2016 flops at WR
It's a different story

I don't agree. I think his inaccuracy is as equally as concerning as the drops. His holding the ball too long may be worse than both.

I think a fair bit of Kizer's accuracy issues are tied to comfort with his receivers (or lack thereof) and, while they do get separation, it is often late and he's feeling pressure and not in rhythm. Too soon to be talking about replacing him. I'm still waiting for the line to gel.

He certainly has.

The thing is, if you want a 21 year old rookie to improve, build his confidence and grow, you're certainly not giving him a very good environment in which to do so.

With all of our penalties and the drops, success is hard. When it comes to a 21 year old kid with four starts under his belt, the supporting cast should be supprting him. Not the other way around.

To me, Josh Allen = Christian Hackenberg

Free bus ticket out of town.season is over!

He'S PLAYED FOOTBALL ALL HIS LIFE and you would think some of this stuff would come naturally but he looks like he doesn't have a clue. Bad sign! Put in Hogan if you want to win some games. To me the wrs look very open but he just keeps missing them. We would have at least 14 points if hogan was in right now!!!

I quite like the way Kizer has played thus far in the first half vs the Jets. He's getting the ball out quicker and has made some nice passes. 8/17 for 87 yards speaks for itself, it isn't ideal, but the chemistry is still off with these fresh receivers, and the mistakes are being minimized.

The interception was frustrating, but I have a long-term perspective with this team so, for me, it is just a teaching moment. You throw it hard and flat, you give a defender an opportunity to make an incredible play. In future, that needs to be high and lead the receiver in to the end zone. The coverage showed footage of Kizer and DeValve speaking afterwards, and I'll bet that's what they were saying. Learn, young men, trend upwards!

Nice to finally have a running game. I think it should be noted we've now already got three calls for holding/illegal contact that have busted several could-be big plays from play action. Who knows where those plays lead without annoying penalties from a defense that knew when it was beat.

Hopeful for a strong second half. Kizer has looked better in the second half in each game this season, although it's usually too late to avoid desperate play. Only down 0-3, let's hope some of those opportunities are converted for touchdowns.

Bring it home, Deshone!

Edit - Never mind. The rookie gets benched for playing like a rookie so we can continue pretending Kevin Hogan is the future at quarterback. Great.

I completely disagree with that statement.

Kizer has looked horrible. Doesn't see open receivers but when he does he misses them by 5 yards. He threw the interception on the goal line. How does he not see the Db there? He really should have 2-3 more interceptions in the 1st half, but his passes were so bad that no one could even get a hand on the football.

Horrible, or like a rookie? Horrible is such an emotionally charged word. Ultimately, he led the team to four scoring opportunities that were all missed on rookie mistakes - Two missed FG, the interception and Crowell's fumble.

The simple fact is the offense was good enough where it could have been up by 20 points, but mistakes were made and none of them were anything uncommon. A young QB didn't see the safety breaking on the flat, and you want to know how he missed that? Honestly, get a list of every quarterback to have ever played. If we were playing a game of "Guess which dumb mistakes the rookie makes as a rookie" that pass is going to be top three.

Meanwhile, Crowell's fumble was uncharacteristic (Ball security hasn't ever really been an issue with him) and Gonzalez, well, I don't know what's up with him. Incredible college kicker but his start has been rocky.

So, again, there is just a handful of plays that held the Browns back from a 20 point first half. Personally, I see that as a coaching moment, evidently Hue does not.

At no stage did he throw 2-3 more interceptions that were dropped or missed by the defense. When you have to alter reality to fit your narrative, perhaps altering your narrative to fit reality should be something you consider. Creating mistakes to overblow issues doesn't advance this conversation.

The only consistent misses were to the guy who has been on the team a thumping four days, and neither Treggs nor Kizer should be overly criticized for not looking like 10 years veterans who've played together for years given it was their first game together. I'm not mad at Kizer for that, I'm mad that the team hasn't provided him better weapons. Of course, opinion is subjective, but my idea of putting a rookie QB in a good situation isn't rooting through practice squads in the hope of unearthing a superstar receiver.

I fear we're just going to see the same boring cycle for years to come - we either start a veteran who isn't very good, or throw a rookie under the bus for not being an All-Pro from day one.

Kizer is a horrible QB and I can almost guarantee the team doesn't trust him.

Ah dilly dilly !!!

No rookie qb is good enough to overcome the short comings around him
For the cash the front office invested in the oline with gold
At WR the front office has given him aluminum foil.
The best thing a rookie qb can have is a running game
The Browns for all money invested in the interior cannot open up holes
Now your getting Kizer in 3rd and 8s 3rd 10s.
No qb can push the ball downfield with what the Browns have a wr.
Every thing is horizonal.

I think he played like he came advertised. Exactly like he came advertised.

I don't post emotionally. His play was horrible. Whether that is because he is a rookie or because he is a horrible Qb is a different question. I don't have the answer to that but I do have the answer for how he played today. Horribly

That was damn near poetic. Great post.

As frustrating as it is, I don't feel like I'm seeing anything out of the ordinary when it comes to a young team with a young quarterback. I admire the Browns initiative to solidify the offensive line, it is a logical strategy to try give your QB protection and a rushing game, but at the end of the day it is a passing league and the rookie QB is always going to play like a rookie QB.

The receivers haven't helped this process at all. Not only in their own shortcomings, such as the drop issues and the struggles getting open, but I feel like we don't have anyone who scares the defense.

I quite like guys like Louis and Higgins, but they need to be complements to legitimate receivers rather than depended upon themselves. Coleman's injury is crushing as he was starting to look, at the very least, an interesting option.

This is an area of investment that has to be made going forward. With what he's working with, Kizer's issues as an inexperienced are only brought further in to light. We don't have anyone who can mask this process.

I know he's just a rookie, but so far it's certainly looking like Kizer isn't the answer to the Browns QB woes. Hogan is a definite improvement over him. At least so far.

Ye of thanks BDU.
I explained months ago Ricardo Louis came from a school where they just don't develop WRS that transcend NFL success.
He ran a limited route tree at Auburn.
He was never asked to break off a route when qb was out of pocket.
The Browns WR lack that saviness to Play back yard football much like The Steelers do with AB and Ben
Higgins played vs inferior CBs at Colorado St.
Kizers lack of faith in His WR is making him trying to do too much
Any rookie qb with inaccurate issues like Kizer had at ND
You have limit his throw drop backs and let complete high % passes. 1st 4 games in the yr Hue was trying to run the Chargers offense of the 80s.
It doesn't work when teams are playing cloud coverages and cover 2 zones Ala the Bengals.
BTW Hue has started 5 different regular season qbs in 2 yrs.
Hard to settle on a gameplan with 5 qbs and 5 different as skill sets

There's no way this team has trust in him.

People are open and not being seen.

People are open and not getting catchable balls. I mean for us to get open at all, wow.

He's killing us and hurting our team in the worst way in the endzone/near it.

Let's pretend Kizer is viable. More future in that.

Rich Eisen

More Rich Eisen Retweeted Mary Kay Cabot
So, if you’re scoring at home, Kizer won the sidelines today.Rich Eisen added,

Mary Kay Cabot

#Browns Jackson said Kizer was outstanding on the sidelines, helping Hogan, understood the decision
1:28 PM - 8 Oct 2017

https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/917124558062108673

Please do water .... thanks again ...

ED

Ahhhh .... didn't know u were reffering to him wanting a replacement for Kizer ... i was just talking about qb's in general ...

I'm guessing this year we'll breakdown some qb's like we did last year ...

Kizer is slow in progressions, waiting to see an open receiver in lieu of throwing the ball knowing that the receiver is going to break open.

Reaction and understanding of this type takes time to develop trust.

Exactly, we knew he'd need time to develop and is a project. Anybody who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. The mistakes in the Jets game were the same types of decisions that got him benched in ND.