We weren't done talking ... or at least i wasn't ... *L* ...
post from Jester ...
I think both Brees and Brady significantly improved their arm strength after coming to the NFL. I cannot come up with an accuracy example but I think that is harder to observe. You need to watch more plus those with accuracy issues that are bad enough that improvements are obvious don't typically get the chances. _________________________ What if dogs chewed your shoes because shoes are the last thing you put on before you leave?
Hmmmm ... they could be two examples of significantly improved arm strength ... definetly could be .... wish there was a way to measure it cause these two guys (especially Bree's) would be great test studies ....
And if it can be done, it would have to be done by HARD WORKING DEDICATED guys and both these guys have gone above and beyond ...
Thanks Man ... i need to think about this and then I may have to re-think my position on how much arm strength can be improved once a QB has reached the nfl ....
Bree’s attributed his arm strength change to core training.
That'd be my guess ... Brady's diligence and work ethic are well documented ... Bree's isn't near Brady with the eating .. but the training aspect ... hes right there ... and hes always been a core strength training type of guy ...
Damm it ... i love when i learn but hate when I'm wrong ... *L* ...
On a side note ... i said draft day that SD RAPED ATLANTA in that trade because i thought Bree's would be a better nfl qb than Vick ... i had no clue LT would become who he did at that time ... *L* ...
And i actually thought Bree's would be better cause Vick was to innacurate ... no way was it cause i thought Bree's would become who he did ... i liked Bree's cause of his accuracy and brains ... only question on his was arm strength, well that and height ... (ND fan .. liked watching him when we played them so i watched him every chance I got ... him being at Purdue if i remember correctly meant that wasn't often ... *L* .. )
The kid from Oklahoma will be another who has good arm strength natural ability for accuracy but is 6'1" and will not be taken too seriously by the NFL snobbery of QBs. Will he be another Aaron Rogers? or another I don't know I forgot all the ones who didn't make it cause they are so forgetable. I was trying to think of the kid we took in the 90's from Georgia? lol
The kid from Oklahoma will be another who has good arm strength natural ability for accuracy but is 6'1" and will not be taken too seriously by the NFL snobbery of QBs. Will he be another Aaron Rogers? or another I don't know I forgot all the ones who didn't make it cause they are so forgetable. I was trying to think of the kid we took in the 90's from Georgia? lol
jmho
Eric Zeier. Tab...please refrain from bringing up such memories.
I'm always looking at qb's ... position really intrigues me ... and so many things have changed over the last 20 years in high school and qb play that its led to a serious lack of talent at the nfl level ...
Add to that all the nfl rule changes have lent themselves big time to opening up the passing game and the lack of talent coming in is really highlighted ...
water ... thanks for the heads up water ...
Have u seen him play? If so, your take on him please ...
You know i'm all about QB eval. But, looking in a general sense is much different then what eotab meant. He's looking for a replacement for Kizer after 4 games. And talking about that right now is crazy.
All I have for Mayfield is a general impression...and I like his moxie and athleticism. Beyond that I haven't drilled down enough.
I have only watched part's of two games .. To early for me to make a call .. I was all over Josh Allen from Wyoming , but he has had a rough season so far .. Will continue to watch and give you an up date after I have more time studies .
Now he has the size and in my opinion the arm .. He seems to have a kinda field general presence about him .. But like I said , small sample .
J Cherry on the pre-game radio out of Cleveland is pretty high on Kizer this morning. His takes as a former player are better than many ex-players IMO.
My take from him is that he thinks the lack of support/play/execution around Kizer is a bigger problem than Kizer's own shortcomings/inexperience - while he is STILL acknowledging Kizer's own issues.
BTW...it's worth downloading the Cleveland Browns app and listening to the pre-game talk on the "RADIO" on that app. Good stuff there. Not too high or low for the most part.
Kizer had been let down by drops...penalties that turn 3rd and 3 to 3rd and 18 he's now pressing and trying to do to much on his own shoulders...predictable play calling isn't helping
The wrs inability to seperate and hold on to the ball is more concerning than his inaccurate throws Give him DeAndre Hopkins and Will Fuller instead of the 2016 flops at WR It's a different story
I think a fair bit of Kizer's accuracy issues are tied to comfort with his receivers (or lack thereof) and, while they do get separation, it is often late and he's feeling pressure and not in rhythm. Too soon to be talking about replacing him. I'm still waiting for the line to gel.
The thing is, if you want a 21 year old rookie to improve, build his confidence and grow, you're certainly not giving him a very good environment in which to do so.
With all of our penalties and the drops, success is hard. When it comes to a 21 year old kid with four starts under his belt, the supporting cast should be supprting him. Not the other way around.
I have only watched part's of two games .. To early for me to make a call .. I was all over Josh Allen from Wyoming , but he has had a rough season so far .. Will continue to watch and give you an up date after I have more time studies .
Now he has the size and in my opinion the arm .. He seems to have a kinda field general presence about him .. But like I said , small sample .
I don't agree. I think his inaccuracy is as equally as concerning as the drops. His holding the ball too long may be worse than both.
He'S PLAYED FOOTBALL ALL HIS LIFE and you would think some of this stuff would come naturally but he looks like he doesn't have a clue. Bad sign! Put in Hogan if you want to win some games. To me the wrs look very open but he just keeps missing them. We would have at least 14 points if hogan was in right now!!!
I quite like the way Kizer has played thus far in the first half vs the Jets. He's getting the ball out quicker and has made some nice passes. 8/17 for 87 yards speaks for itself, it isn't ideal, but the chemistry is still off with these fresh receivers, and the mistakes are being minimized.
The interception was frustrating, but I have a long-term perspective with this team so, for me, it is just a teaching moment. You throw it hard and flat, you give a defender an opportunity to make an incredible play. In future, that needs to be high and lead the receiver in to the end zone. The coverage showed footage of Kizer and DeValve speaking afterwards, and I'll bet that's what they were saying. Learn, young men, trend upwards!
Nice to finally have a running game. I think it should be noted we've now already got three calls for holding/illegal contact that have busted several could-be big plays from play action. Who knows where those plays lead without annoying penalties from a defense that knew when it was beat.
Hopeful for a strong second half. Kizer has looked better in the second half in each game this season, although it's usually too late to avoid desperate play. Only down 0-3, let's hope some of those opportunities are converted for touchdowns.
Bring it home, Deshone!
Edit - Never mind. The rookie gets benched for playing like a rookie so we can continue pretending Kevin Hogan is the future at quarterback. Great.
I quite like the way Kizer has played thus far in the first half vs the Jets.
I completely disagree with that statement.
Kizer has looked horrible. Doesn't see open receivers but when he does he misses them by 5 yards. He threw the interception on the goal line. How does he not see the Db there? He really should have 2-3 more interceptions in the 1st half, but his passes were so bad that no one could even get a hand on the football.
I quite like the way Kizer has played thus far in the first half vs the Jets.
I completely disagree with that statement.
Kizer has looked horrible. Doesn't see open receivers but when he does he misses them by 5 yards. He threw the interception on the goal line. How does he not see the Db there? He really should have 2-3 more interceptions in the 1st half, but his passes were so bad that no one could even get a hand on the football.
Horrible, or like a rookie? Horrible is such an emotionally charged word. Ultimately, he led the team to four scoring opportunities that were all missed on rookie mistakes - Two missed FG, the interception and Crowell's fumble.
The simple fact is the offense was good enough where it could have been up by 20 points, but mistakes were made and none of them were anything uncommon. A young QB didn't see the safety breaking on the flat, and you want to know how he missed that? Honestly, get a list of every quarterback to have ever played. If we were playing a game of "Guess which dumb mistakes the rookie makes as a rookie" that pass is going to be top three.
Meanwhile, Crowell's fumble was uncharacteristic (Ball security hasn't ever really been an issue with him) and Gonzalez, well, I don't know what's up with him. Incredible college kicker but his start has been rocky.
So, again, there is just a handful of plays that held the Browns back from a 20 point first half. Personally, I see that as a coaching moment, evidently Hue does not.
At no stage did he throw 2-3 more interceptions that were dropped or missed by the defense. When you have to alter reality to fit your narrative, perhaps altering your narrative to fit reality should be something you consider. Creating mistakes to overblow issues doesn't advance this conversation.
The only consistent misses were to the guy who has been on the team a thumping four days, and neither Treggs nor Kizer should be overly criticized for not looking like 10 years veterans who've played together for years given it was their first game together. I'm not mad at Kizer for that, I'm mad that the team hasn't provided him better weapons. Of course, opinion is subjective, but my idea of putting a rookie QB in a good situation isn't rooting through practice squads in the hope of unearthing a superstar receiver.
I fear we're just going to see the same boring cycle for years to come - we either start a veteran who isn't very good, or throw a rookie under the bus for not being an All-Pro from day one.
No rookie qb is good enough to overcome the short comings around him For the cash the front office invested in the oline with gold At WR the front office has given him aluminum foil. The best thing a rookie qb can have is a running game The Browns for all money invested in the interior cannot open up holes Now your getting Kizer in 3rd and 8s 3rd 10s. No qb can push the ball downfield with what the Browns have a wr. Every thing is horizonal.
I don't post emotionally. His play was horrible. Whether that is because he is a rookie or because he is a horrible Qb is a different question. I don't have the answer to that but I do have the answer for how he played today. Horribly
No rookie qb is good enough to overcome the short comings around him For the cash the front office invested in the oline with gold At WR the front office has given him aluminum foil. The best thing a rookie qb can have is a running game The Browns for all money invested in the interior cannot open up holes Now your getting Kizer in 3rd and 8s 3rd 10s. No qb can push the ball downfield with what the Browns have a wr. Every thing is horizonal.
That was damn near poetic. Great post.
As frustrating as it is, I don't feel like I'm seeing anything out of the ordinary when it comes to a young team with a young quarterback. I admire the Browns initiative to solidify the offensive line, it is a logical strategy to try give your QB protection and a rushing game, but at the end of the day it is a passing league and the rookie QB is always going to play like a rookie QB.
The receivers haven't helped this process at all. Not only in their own shortcomings, such as the drop issues and the struggles getting open, but I feel like we don't have anyone who scares the defense.
I quite like guys like Louis and Higgins, but they need to be complements to legitimate receivers rather than depended upon themselves. Coleman's injury is crushing as he was starting to look, at the very least, an interesting option.
This is an area of investment that has to be made going forward. With what he's working with, Kizer's issues as an inexperienced are only brought further in to light. We don't have anyone who can mask this process.
I know he's just a rookie, but so far it's certainly looking like Kizer isn't the answer to the Browns QB woes. Hogan is a definite improvement over him. At least so far.
Ye of thanks BDU. I explained months ago Ricardo Louis came from a school where they just don't develop WRS that transcend NFL success. He ran a limited route tree at Auburn. He was never asked to break off a route when qb was out of pocket. The Browns WR lack that saviness to Play back yard football much like The Steelers do with AB and Ben Higgins played vs inferior CBs at Colorado St. Kizers lack of faith in His WR is making him trying to do too much Any rookie qb with inaccurate issues like Kizer had at ND You have limit his throw drop backs and let complete high % passes. 1st 4 games in the yr Hue was trying to run the Chargers offense of the 80s. It doesn't work when teams are playing cloud coverages and cover 2 zones Ala the Bengals. BTW Hue has started 5 different regular season qbs in 2 yrs. Hard to settle on a gameplan with 5 qbs and 5 different as skill sets
I don't post emotionally. His play was horrible. Whether that is because he is a rookie or because he is a horrible Qb is a different question. I don't have the answer to that but I do have the answer for how he played today. Horribly
There's no way this team has trust in him.
People are open and not being seen.
People are open and not getting catchable balls. I mean for us to get open at all, wow.
He's killing us and hurting our team in the worst way in the endzone/near it.
I have only watched part's of two games .. To early for me to make a call .. I was all over Josh Allen from Wyoming , but he has had a rough season so far .. Will continue to watch and give you an up date after I have more time studies .
Now he has the size and in my opinion the arm .. He seems to have a kinda field general presence about him .. But like I said , small sample .
Please do water .... thanks again ...
ED
Ahhhh .... didn't know u were reffering to him wanting a replacement for Kizer ... i was just talking about qb's in general ...
I'm guessing this year we'll breakdown some qb's like we did last year ...
I think he played like he came advertised. Exactly like he came advertised.
Exactly, we knew he'd need time to develop and is a project. Anybody who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. The mistakes in the Jets game were the same types of decisions that got him benched in ND.
Browns coach Hue Jackson thinks benching DeShone Kizer "will benefit" the young quarterback.
"If that is the decision that we make," Jackson said before clearly showing he has already made his decision. "I think it will benefit him tremendously because he would get a chance to get a breather and take a look at it from a different lens and not from that pressure." It is not official, but it certainly sounds like Kevin Hogan will get the start this week.
Last year when I watched Kizer at ND he looked like a guy who had the potential but needed more time to develop. I stated that in a post. I recommended that he return to college.
However, one never knows the whole picture of what was the true story at ND and the relationship with his coach.
Fast forward to the Browns. It is clear that he is indecisive. That he is not not seeing the whole field post-snap. Hard to judge if it is all him or the lack of communication and chemistry with the receivers.
In either case time will tell. It is not like the Browns offense is a juggernaut.
Kizer is a 21 year old rookie who got very little time with the first string during the pre-season. The offense has been stumbling all over the place with turnovers, drops and penalties. Every time you look up it is third and long.
Kizer at this point is incomplete. He needs time. He also needs to have more useful play makers around him.
Is he the future? That question remains to be determined. Look at the history of quarterback play in the NFL. It is a complicated position. It takes years to develop and the learning never stops.
It is too soon to give up on him. At the same time you have to protect yourself and continue to look at other alternatives.
Thx. These are difficult times but people had to know after what has taken place the last few years that this was not going to be a picnic.
However, it never fails to astound me how short sighted some of the posters are.
Quotes "like you can tell right away that Kizer doesn't have it; he will be out of the league in 2-3 years".
"Hue Jackson doesn't know what he is doing and should be fired."
Like wave a magic wand and it will all get better.
It's not enough that the team can't buy a win and as a fan you sit through 1-20. Sure you expect depression. And yes you expect criticism. It is deserved. But the blame needs to be spread around.
If you follow the team and know any thing about the game it is obvious that it is not a matter of one thing or player.
I guess it is time to just lay low and see where this goes. After all the Browns are Haslam's toy and he is the man in charge.
And moronic radio jocks like Rizzo, Grossi, Hammer, Brinda, et al get everyone all whipped up with their frenzied rhetoric. It's sickening. I've had stop listening. None of them has an ounce of credibility. The same experts who pimped you Johnny Manziel.
And moronic radio jocks like Rizzo, Grossi, Hammer, Brinda, et al get everyone all whipped up with their frenzied rhetoric. It's sickening. I've had stop listening. None of them has an ounce of credibility. The same experts who pimped you Johnny Manziel.
ESPNCleveland is the worst...when they actually talk sports, that is. Usually they don't.
And moronic radio jocks like Rizzo, Grossi, Hammer, Brinda, et al get everyone all whipped up with their frenzied rhetoric. It's sickening. I've had stop listening. None of them has an ounce of credibility. The same experts who pimped you Johnny Manziel.
Hue said that Kizer would be a tremendous QB in the NFL. That's not going to happen! He also said that we should trust in him on the ability of Kessler. He personally endorsed him to be an NFL starter because of his tremendous skills. Hue says what ever he needs to say to get through the day. He is trying to learn on the job. He is now telling people that he knows exactly what we have in Hogan and knew all along. What? With Hogan we could have 3-4 wins if he started the season. Now with Hogan, I actually think we can win games now. But it we won't start against the Texans because of Watson. Go Browns!
I'm surprised that with your great ability to see into the future of NFL players that you're not an NFL GM rather than just another poster on a message board. lmao
I'm telling your bro, the number of nauseating posts on here are at all-time high.
I read comments like "this loss is all on Hue," "Hue is ruining Kizer," "Hue's play calling sucks," "Kizer should start," followed by "Kizer will never be a good qb," "Hogan can't be a good qb," "we have a lot of talent," etc, etc.
We are in the early stages of year two of a massive tear-down. People were okay w/blowing things up and are now freaking out and needlessly assigning blame way too soon.
When the plan was first implemented, I said that the tremendous amount of losses would be a problem for all involved and people acted like I was being negative. LOL 21 games in and the blame game is in full swing. Gee, I wonder why???????
I didn't like the plan, but now that we adopted it.......I say stick to it and absolutely do NOT fire anyone else for at least this year and next.
I know that is a pipe dream, though. Hue will be almost certainly be sacrificed by and all those "positive posters" are/will be leading the charge.
I am not sold on Kizer. Never was. But, I think he has a chance. On the other hand, I never thought Weeden would be good and I was called clueless by a ton of posters for that opinion.
I'm surprised that with your great ability to see into the future of NFL players that you're not an NFL GM rather than just another poster on a message board. lmao
QWell, I've seen your posts and about 65% of them belong in La La Land!!!! LOL
First off Tony: You may believe that Kizer has no future. However, what you believe is completely irrelevant. Because you have zero credibility in regards to matters on a NFL team. Unless of course you have a resume showing your accomplishments in that arena.
What Kizer does in his career is up to him not what you believe. He may bust. He may be average. He could be great. At this point it is unknown.
Hue didn't draft Kessler. He may have given some input but that is unknown. Unless of course you were in those meetings. Kessler was a third round pick. Hue made statements to support what is now "his player". If Kessler is Hue's guy than why is he not starting? Kessler was forced into action because of injury. All Hue did was stand behind "his player". What choice was there?
"He is trying to learn on the job" Really? Why don't you go back and look at his resume? Funny, if you look at what was said about Hue Jackson during the hiring process; find a quote of anyone associated with the NFL that was negative about Hue Jackson. Anything coming from players, coaches, GM's, reporters who cover the NFL, anyone who has worked with Hue Jackson in football?
Oh, but Tony knows.
Did you read what McCown said about Hue? How about Joe Thomas. Professional's who have direct experience with Hue and other head coaches. But of course Tony knows better.
You like ripping Hue Jackson? Have at it. Because your opinion carries no weight except to you.
Its been widely stated that Kessler WAS a Hue pick, remember, the whole trust me deal? yeah. and kessler isn't starting this year because he blows and last year he blew, and in training camp and preseason etc. Thats why he wasn't starting, beside, Hue had a new toy in Kizer. I think if you go back, you won't find JT saying anything different about Hue than the 3000 other coaches we've had. Most professional players aren't going to say anything bad about a coach. If you can remember back in 2011, Hue had his share of follies as well with Oakland. While our predicament isn't 100% Hue, he's had quite the hand in it. He deserves criticism as well as the FO. I've said before, if I was to give anyone a Pass it would be coaching. the FO however i think need replaced, and before they are allowed to make another pick
"He is trying to learn on the job" Really? Why don't you go back and look at his resume? Funny, if you look at what was said about Hue Jackson during the hiring process; find a quote of anyone associated with the NFL that was negative about Hue Jackson. Anything coming from players, coaches, GM's, reporters who cover the NFL, anyone who has worked with Hue Jackson in football?
The one thing I haven't heard any of you mention is how well those drives looked last week. Yes, the short FG was missed and Kizer botched things up in the red zone both times.
But we were in scoring position three times. I don't really count the long FG that was missed because those don't have good odds of success anyway. And while I don't oppose starting Hogan, everybody refuses to see that while they didn't end in scores, moving the ball down the field didn't seem to be a problem.
Maybe it wasn't the progress some were looking for, but it was progress.
The one thing I haven't heard any of you mention is how well those drives looked last week. Yes, the short FG was missed and Kizer botched things up in the red zone both times.
But we were in scoring position three times. I don't really count the long FG that was missed because those don't have good odds of success anyway. And while I don't oppose starting Hogan, everybody refuses to see that while they didn't end in scores, moving the ball down the field didn't seem to be a problem.
Maybe it wasn't the progress some were looking for, but it was progress.
I think we'd probably all be somewhat surprised if we went back to week 1 and re-watched and then watched game 5 ... I bet there is a good bit of progress that might not be apparent and you are right - there were some decent 'long' drives from our 20-30 into the red zone before the wheels fell off and we turned the ball over. I mentioned before - the half time stats were ridiculously and overwhelmingly in the Browns favor (other than turn-overs).
What I would say is that losing games we could and should win because you are developing your QB is bad for the rest of the team. And it's as simple as that - I think Hogan gives us the best chance to win and the positive to the rest of the team outweighs any possible negative on Kizer's development. Just look at the WR's and TE's - Njoku looked much improved and Hogan was throwing passes before or as WR's made their break and Ricardo for one looked better. . . . Be great to discover we have a WR or 2 who is actually better than we thought.
Not only that but I truly think that Kizer can benefit by being freed of pressure of starting and preparing to start. . . I am still high on Kizer and think there is plenty of talent there to work with.
The one thing I haven't heard any of you mention is how well those drives looked last week. Yes, the short FG was missed and Kizer botched things up in the red zone both times.
But we were in scoring position three times. I don't really count the long FG that was missed because those don't have good odds of success anyway. And while I don't oppose starting Hogan, everybody refuses to see that while they didn't end in scores, moving the ball down the field didn't seem to be a problem.
Maybe it wasn't the progress some were looking for, but it was progress.
The one thing I haven't heard any of you mention is how well those drives looked last week. Yes, the short FG was missed and Kizer botched things up in the red zone both times.
But we were in scoring position three times. I don't really count the long FG that was missed because those don't have good odds of success anyway. And while I don't oppose starting Hogan, everybody refuses to see that while they didn't end in scores, moving the ball down the field didn't seem to be a problem.
Maybe it wasn't the progress some were looking for, but it was progress.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
I think I can proffer a decent theory.
I think the Browns were basking in the glory of a 4 game preseason winning streak.
And Kizer of course looked decent. Even ready. Those preseason games look real.
Kizer has a chance to become a good QB. He just isn't ready to start yet. Hogan has produced where Kizer hasn't. That means Hogan has EARNED a chance to start. No one think Hogan is the next Montana. We just see that he can move the ball better, MUCH BETTER. If hogan fails then it's no big loss because Kizer was already losing us games himself.
At least Hue is showing the team that no starter is safe when they create turnovers. You have to create than mentality and culture where you don't turn the ball over like all successful NFL teams do. Kizer is going to have to learn to process post snap much faster if he truly wants to be an NFL starter. I am not hating the kid but just stating my objective opinion. I think Kizer has potential but until the mental aspect speeds up he will never succeed. Hogan had the same problem last year and has made a HUGE improvement. Kizer will have to do the same.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
I think I can proffer a decent theory.
I think the Browns were basking in the glory of a 4 game preseason winning streak.
And Kizer of course looked decent. Even ready. Those preseason games look real.
That's why I always say enjoy the preseason games. Usually? They are the best games of our whole season!
Some people can't admit they may have made a mistake. So what if Hue thought DK was ready to start and he wasn't. He's not the first coach who made a mistake and he won't be the last. DK did look good in preseason and had that strong arm but as we know it's not the same as regular season. Maybe he thought we had another Dan Marino. In any case he corrected himself and in the long run it may be better for DK and the Browns. Right now, for everyone's sake, we need to win some games and KH gives us the best chance.
Kizer was the same crappy quarterback during the first 5 weeks of the season as he was during the preseason. I think they thought he would develop quicker than he has... I think hue figured he had the best physical tools of the quarterbacks and we weren't going to win a lot this year so he played kizer. However barely completing 50% of your passes and an 0-5 record have led hue to make the change.
I don't understand why everyone thought kizer was the best quarterback in the preseason. I'd actually say Hogan had the best preseason of all our quarterbacks.
I clearly answered it. I'm not saying it is right, but I think it is feasible. Do you?
My bad. It is definitely feasible. I don't think it is the case. I think the team (Hue and Sashi both) forced Kizer into the starter's role hoping for a miracle (kind of like they did last year with RGIII).
To me it was pretty clear in the preseason that Kizer was having trouble making reads. He had trouble with interceptions and completing passes then also.
With all that said, I was an advocate of starting Kizer right away. I think that learning by doing is the best way to improve rapidly (with proper coaching). We were always going to be bad and taking the year to develop Kizer by playing him made a lot of sense.
I think Kizer is the same now as he was before week one. That tells me that starting him from game one was a mistake or benching him is a mistake. Nobody affiliated with the team has been asked which is the case.
Okay, that is very fair. I apologize for being snarky. I may have misunderstood your intent.
If you recall, I was all in favor of starting Brock in a throw-away year and allowing Kizer to sit and work on the things he did not get in college.
I backed off when they made the decision because I don't believe in QB controversies. I am pretty sure I said the decision to start Kizer was "risky."
With all of that said.........it really sucks we just can't find a guy to be our answer. We end up bashing one another and the Browns continue to suck. It's very depressing.
Kizer was the same crappy quarterback during the first 5 weeks of the season as he was during the preseason. I think they thought he would develop quicker than he has... I think hue figured he had the best physical tools of the quarterbacks and we weren't going to win a lot this year so he played kizer. However barely completing 50% of your passes and an 0-5 record have led hue to make the change.
I don't understand why everyone thought kizer was the best quarterback in the preseason. I'd actually say Hogan had the best preseason of all our quarterbacks.
with out Hogan we would have be 2-2 in the preseason. If I am remembering correctly, he came in and won the last two games for us.
I don't think Hogan was given much consideration at all in preseason. He was always the afterthought. It was always Kessler, or Osweiller, then Kizer. I think Hogan only got into any preseason games, late in the second half, because the coaching staff thought they would give him a chance to catch on somewhere else. After all, they had to get rid of somebody. Then Hogan came in and looked good.
The Dolphins supposedly wanted to trade for Osweiller, but the FO turned them down. Suddenly Hogan looks good in a preseason mop up role, better than the other 3 QBs combined, and they cut Osweiller.
Now our afterthought Quarterback is the starter. Good for him ...
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Actually I thought the idea was to see what we had prior to the draft...which we did get a good look.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Actually I thought the idea was to see what we had prior to the draft...which we did get a good look.
I suppose you may be right. Maybe the plan all along was to play Kizer to see what we have. If he succeeds, great, keep him in there and if he doesn't seem to do well it's back to the drawing board...
Vers, I just think DK needs more time to learn the reads and what the D is doing out there. Will he turn into our long term QB, who knows, but he has the physical ability and seems to be a worker. As far as QB's in college that can learn in the pro's faster, that is how to make reads faster, I'd put my money on a guy from Stanford!!!
I don't think Hogan was given much consideration at all in preseason. He was always the afterthought. It was always Kessler, or Osweiller, then Kizer. I think Hogan only got into any preseason games, late in the second half, because the coaching staff thought they would give him a chance to catch on somewhere else. After all, they had to get rid of somebody. Then Hogan came in and looked good.
32...agree..it did not seem that Hogan was much of a consideration, but you have to give the guy credit, he kept fighting, making sure he was doing the work to be ready for his opportunities..last season..the 2017 pre-season and he took advantage of his opportunities in the games this season.
Studying draft boards last year after the Browns surprised most by taking Kessler in the 3rd round of the 2016 draft. Hogan appeared ahead of Kessler on every draft board I saw. I didn't think much about it until the Browns picked Hogan up after the Chiefs waived him in their last cut down.
Pep Hamilton, the Browns QB coach in 2016, was the QB coach at Stanford in 2012 and coached Hogan in his freshman year (2012). In the 9th game of the year, Hogan got to play and helped lead Stanford to a win..was named the starting QB and the Cardinals did not lose another game in 2012.
No doubt, Pep Hamilton vouched for Hogan, letting the front office know about his potential. Can Hogan pull off the same type of feat for the Browns...taking over the starting job and play well enough to secure the starting position...who knows?
..but I would not sell this kid short. He does seem to process the field quickly and deliver an accurate pass. His mechanics look good, so Hue can concentrate on teaching the playbook and game plan.
Hogan had a wonderlic score of 38 and doesn't seem to get overly excited...I just hope he can help the offense enough to give the team a chance to win.
BTW, Hogan has twice the experience as a NFL QB than Kizer has.
I don't think Hogan was given much consideration at all in preseason. He was always the afterthought. It was always Kessler, or Osweiller, then Kizer. I think Hogan only got into any preseason games, late in the second half, because the coaching staff thought they would give him a chance to catch on somewhere else. After all, they had to get rid of somebody. Then Hogan came in and looked good.
The Dolphins supposedly wanted to trade for Osweiller, but the FO turned them down. Suddenly Hogan looks good in a preseason mop up role, better than the other 3 QBs combined, and they cut Osweiller.
Now our afterthought Quarterback is the starter. Good for him ...
Going to have to agree.
The "trust me" QB has went from #1 to not even starting/dressing on gamedays.
The "we like him" qb that was once starting in preseason isn't even on the team anymore.
The "I have faith in" QB was given a job he wasn't prepared for and hasn't improved, resulted in getting benched.
The one QB no one, including fans or the staff, gave a chance to is our best bet for a win and our best QB.
... I mean, you can't make it up. Some serious bad visions and decisions going on here. What the Hell are we doing in this circus here???
Hey Homes! I haven't given upon Kizer either. You are right that he has the physical gifts and seems to be a hard worker.
I worry about the reads. I think that you can certainly improve your pre-snap reads w/a lot of study and intelligence. I also think that post-snap reads of coverage is more of a processing skill and it isn't really related to intelligence. I think it is more of an innate thing.
After watching Hue Jackson's press conference, I think he likes Deshone Kizer a lot more than Deshone being benched suggests. Who knows if it is just 'coach speak' when addressing the media regarding one of his players, but that just has a very authentic feel to it, in my opinion.
Just the little things. The tone of his voice, choice of words, inflections, his general demeanour, etc. It just sounds like he genuinely does think Deshone has a bright future as a Cleveland Brown.
I believe he's giving him a "mental health" break. I also think he's hoping to stabilize the team by starting Hogan. Neither is a bad thing, or an indictment against Kizer.
There are many ways to get the job done. Bernie is one of guys that proved that. There have been many others. Tarkenton was another.
When Wentz was going through the draft process I was crazy for the guy. He had what I was looking for. Not going to go through the whole analysis as to why. I said it all over this Board during that time.
The Browns went another direction and justified it with: We need many players and one will not do.
They made that decision before with Julio Jones. Neither decision has proved to be right.
At this point I am nowhere near giving up on Kizer. He was raw when drafted and nothing will change that in six months time.
At the same time the Browns must be very careful not to fall into the trap of believing in Kizer without real proof one way or another.
When this season is over I doubt that the quarterback question will have an answer.
The Browns hopefully will go into the off season with an open mind regarding the quarterback position.
Answer me this. How did Kizer pass the analytics test and Wentz didnt with this front office ?
We got a boatload of picks for Wentz (and our head coach wanted Goff) and Kizer was a lottery ticket taken in the middle of the second round.
I think a better question is what are the analytics between Hogan and Kizer?
My guess is that the numbers (analytics is the use of numbers, not the data itself) loved Kizer's measurables. With that said, we didn't claim Hogan off of waivers and keep him for a whole season because didn't like him.
In reality, there is not a big enough sample to glean anything from either QB numbers wise.
I don't think Hogan was given much consideration at all in preseason. He was always the afterthought. It was always Kessler, or Osweiller, then Kizer. I think Hogan only got into any preseason games, late in the second half, because the coaching staff thought they would give him a chance to catch on somewhere else. After all, they had to get rid of somebody. Then Hogan came in and looked good.
The Dolphins supposedly wanted to trade for Osweiller, but the FO turned them down. Suddenly Hogan looks good in a preseason mop up role, better than the other 3 QBs combined, and they cut Osweiller.
Now our afterthought Quarterback is the starter. Good for him ...
Going to have to agree.
The "trust me" QB has went from #1 to not even starting/dressing on gamedays.
The "we like him" qb that was once starting in preseason isn't even on the team anymore.
The "I have faith in" QB was given a job he wasn't prepared for and hasn't improved, resulted in getting benched.
The one QB no one, including fans or the staff, gave a chance to is our best bet for a win and our best QB.
... I mean, you can't make it up. Some serious bad visions and decisions going on here. What the Hell are we doing in this circus here???
Also, let's not forget that Hogan's game/mechanics were a hot mess last year. He's improved in that area, allowing him to think about executing the offense.
Answer me this. How did Kizer pass the analytics test and Wentz didnt with this front office ?
We got a boatload of picks for Wentz (and our head coach wanted Goff) and Kizer was a lottery ticket taken in the middle of the second round.
I think a better question is what are the analytics between Hogan and Kizer?
My guess is that the numbers (analytics is the use of numbers, not the data itself) loved Kizer's measurables. With that said, we didn't claim Hogan off of waivers and keep him for a whole season because didn't like him.
In reality, there is not a big enough sample to glean anything from either QB numbers wise.
No doubt the sample size is too small in regards to the NFL...but Hogan's college profile is very impressive...and he was a 5 year guy...starter for 3 1/2 years ish. Kizer had a very good year (after a red-shirt year) and an awful year.
I see Hogan's college experience and his actual play this year...and say...why not? Why can he not continue to develop?
He's "better" than Kizer at every single thing/measurable except for arm strength. I don't think being 1" taller and 15 pounds heavier means a lot when the "smaller" guy is 6'3" and 220 pounds with bigger hands.
Has Jackson said why things are different for Kizer than they were at the start of the season?
Hue's feeling the heat to win? Desperate for a win?
From Hue's comments in the postgame press conference following loss to the Jets...
And as Jackson weighs the pros and cons on how to best handle Cleveland’s latest quarterbacking conundrum, he again said the losing is taking its toll.
“Hell, my confidence is shaken,” Jackson said when asked if Kizer could be rattled by being pulled Sunday for Hogan. “We haven’t won a game. I am, what, 1-30? I don’t know what it is. My confidence is shaken, too, but I am going to walk in here every day and in this building every day with the mindset to get better and to get this organization and this football team to winning.
“Oh, I sure would hope so. Again, I think people think that I am doing this because I am maybe disappointed in certain things. I knew that this potentially could happen. I think I said that, but also, I think what you guys continue to write on because I said ‘I would ride with him through it’ – and I have – but also, I have to ride this football team. It is not just about one guy. It is about the team. At the end of the day, I have to do what I think is best to give our team the best opportunity to win. That is what this is all about. Nothing more, nothing less.”
On the determining factor in naming QB Kevin Hogan the starter this week:
“I just think it was the best chance to give our offense a chance to stay in rhythm and play consistently over four quarters. See if Kevin can do it. Obviously, he has done that in games. We have moved the ball. We have done some good things there. I just want to see if I can see him do that for a whole game. See where it goes.”
Doesn't this undermine Hogan? It probably doesn't matter but Jackson should have probably said something like, "We'll see how Kevin Hogan plays and go from there."
Doesn't this undermine Hogan? It probably doesn't matter but Jackson should have probably said something like, "We'll see how Kevin Hogan plays and go from there."
Quote:
See if Kevin can do it. Obviously, he has done that in games. We have moved the ball. We have done some good things there. I just want to see if I can see him do that for a whole game. See where it goes.”
In general, Hue is in a tough spot. He's gotta support both QBs, even though he can only start one at a time.
In certain situations (like this one), picking apart what a coach says won't get you very far in terms of figuring out what's going on. The coach really can't say very much without damaging the situation further.
Looking back over the past games this season, I'm glad Hue made the decision to bench Kizer, and do so as gently as possible. The kid needs a break to catch his breath and try to figure stuff out... but he doesn't need to be beat up about it.
Doesn't this undermine Hogan? It probably doesn't matter but Jackson should have probably said something like, "We'll see how Kevin Hogan plays and go from there."
Quote:
See if Kevin can do it. Obviously, he has done that in games. We have moved the ball. We have done some good things there. I just want to see if I can see him do that for a whole game. See where it goes.”
Isn't that what he said right here?
It's not cool to defend Hue. Get w/the program. LOL
The FO has provided Hue w/a ton of talent and experience. They are the gods of the NFL and Hue is ruining all the great work they do.
There are many ways to get the job done. Bernie is one of guys that proved that. There have been many others. Tarkenton was another.
When Wentz was going through the draft process I was crazy for the guy. He had what I was looking for. Not going to go through the whole analysis as to why. I said it all over this Board during that time.
The Browns went another direction and justified it with: We need many players and one will not do.
They made that decision before with Julio Jones. Neither decision has proved to be right.
At this point I am nowhere near giving up on Kizer. He was raw when drafted and nothing will change that in six months time.
At the same time the Browns must be very careful not to fall into the trap of believing in Kizer without real proof one way or another.
When this season is over I doubt that the quarterback question will have an answer.
The Browns hopefully will go into the off season with an open mind regarding the quarterback position.
This is why I do not trust this FO to draft number one overall next year.
Doesn't this undermine Hogan? It probably doesn't matter but Jackson should have probably said something like, "We'll see how Kevin Hogan plays and go from there."
Quote:
See if Kevin can do it. Obviously, he has done that in games. We have moved the ball. We have done some good things there. I just want to see if I can see him do that for a whole game. See where it goes.”
Isn't that what he said right here?
I think those are two different things. Maybe I am reading into things too much, but if you say you hope Kizer starts again this year, doesn't that mean Kevin Hogan failed?
I think Kizer has regressed. Coming into this starting of the rookie I said as long as he progressed. The last couple of games has not shown. We as a team deserve to start winning. Although I think Hogan does not have the skill set to be an NFL QB he is the best suited to win games for us. I never wish for us to play for the draft pick. In lieu of that I hope Kizer sits the rest of the season. Jmho
Doesn't this undermine Hogan? It probably doesn't matter but Jackson should have probably said something like, "We'll see how Kevin Hogan plays and go from there."
Quote:
See if Kevin can do it. Obviously, he has done that in games. We have moved the ball. We have done some good things there. I just want to see if I can see him do that for a whole game. See where it goes.”
Isn't that what he said right here?
I think those are two different things. Maybe I am reading into things too much, but if you say you hope Kizer starts again this year, doesn't that mean Kevin Hogan failed?
I took as he hopes Kizer is who he thinks he is. And and some point this year he is hoping Kizer catches up and surpasses Hogan. Then insert Kizer...hence the "hope so" statement.
Doesn't this undermine Hogan? It probably doesn't matter but Jackson should have probably said something like, "We'll see how Kevin Hogan plays and go from there."
It does. Jackson is basically saying Hogan has no chance to be better than Kizer. He's just keeping the seat warm until Kizer is ready. Hopefully Hogan rubs it in his face.
Meh - I think it's coach speak, we see a lot of it from Hue. Hogan's fate is in his own hands (and the hands of the WR's!) ... if he plays well, gets wins, doesn't turn the ball over ... he will continue to 'keep the seat warm'. I think if he struggles or D's start catching up to him, we might see another change after the bye week. jmo
Hue sure is a curious guy. Looking for stuff to see, we keep tanking games. Kessler was sorry, Kizer plays until bottom of the NFL. And if Kizer develops enough, at some point to be determined, if ever, we have done what? Why draft this marginal a project?
I am tired of crapshoots. And the people judging football "horseflesh" are lousy at this drafting business. Kessler, and then Kizer. Any new flavor of the day will have baggage. I expected growing pains. Kizer is much worse than I thought. Against winnable opponents. Hogan has outplayed him by what he avoids. Practice must be an exercise in Blind Man's Bluff. Hue seems frantic to have this pick pan out; not so sure this will ever get good enough. Go, Browns. Way too much talk and explanation in interviews. Last in NFL.
Doesn't this undermine Hogan? It probably doesn't matter but Jackson should have probably said something like, "We'll see how Kevin Hogan plays and go from there."
Quote:
See if Kevin can do it. Obviously, he has done that in games. We have moved the ball. We have done some good things there. I just want to see if I can see him do that for a whole game. See where it goes.”
Isn't that what he said right here?
I think those are two different things. Maybe I am reading into things too much, but if you say you hope Kizer starts again this year, doesn't that mean Kevin Hogan failed?
I think people are looking to criticize Hue. I also think he was trying to say positive things about both players when asked direct questions about each.
...Although I think Hogan does not have the skill set to be an NFL QB he is the best suited to win games for us...Jmho
What skill set is missing or lacking with Hogan? I don't see how we could "know" that at the moment. Other than arm strength - he is better than Kizer at everything else asked of a QB.
It'll be interesting to see how he performs this week.
with his assets would like for him to be more accurate. .that is why he is NOT the guy. He is smart, has good rhthym, make decisive reads...just not accurate enough for long term. Jmho
with his assets would like for him to be more accurate. .that is why he is NOT the guy. He is smart, has good rhthym, make decisive reads...just not accurate enough for long term. Jmho
Fair enough. That wasn't his college rep though IIRC...and the NFL sample is still very small.
FWIW...I think Hogan has a better shot at overcoming accuracy issues than does Kizer.
I think Hue has handled Kizer the way Iwould have. He has the tools, he has the intelligence, you need to see what how he can do under pressure in order to gauge is growth. I also agree that it was time to go with Hogan.
You cant allow a rookie to continue to turn the ball over when u are losing games u should have been winning. Hogan gives the team a chance to win and right now Kizer does not. simple as that.
I think Hue has handled Kizer the way Iwould have. He has the tools, he has the intelligence, you need to see what how he can do under pressure in order to gauge is growth. I also agree that it was time to go with Hogan.
You cant allow a rookie to continue to turn the ball over when u are losing games u should have been winning. Hogan gives the team a chance to win and right now Kizer does not. simple as that.
So u would have handled it the wrong way too ... gotcha ... *LOL* ...
He needs to know what hes doing before we can gauge anything much less how hes going to do under pressure ...
MECHANICALLY and MENTALLY (u said it yourself in the other thread just a minute ago .. he proccess info like and old mainframe compared to the new servers ... btw ... that speedy Gonzales comment had me *LMAO* ...
Anyhow .. mechanically and mentally he was and still isn’t near ready ...
Throwing him out there especially with this SUPPORTING CAST was like putting a pre calc test in front of a 5th graded ... there just not ready for it ...
Im a believer that accuracy can be IMPROVED it cannot be found where it is not. Looking at possible franchise prospects it should be WOW for accuracy...first n fore most. Has to be there..if there doesnt automatically make them a franchise QB ergo Kessler. Which I think where the trust me statement originated from. Hogan n Kizer are not in that wow categoey of accuracy... jmho
I think Hugh has totally blown the qb situation. We started the pre season with 4 quarterbacks. Week 5 we're starting the least prepared one of the bunch....the one he put last on the depth chart and barely mentioned. Where would we be if Hogan had gotten some decent reps with the ones instead of wasting them on the others?
Somehow I don't think that being an NFL HC is the same thing as being a great public speaker. We can dissect every word he says if people think that's a quality you expect from your HC. But I think it's just being petty.
I think Kizer had a bad week, he needs to put his head down and work until he's called under center again.
He's played pretty poor since game one of regular season. Darn those pesky defensive schemes and having to actually play QB in a non-preseason game!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not disagreeing with that at all but I think the last week was particularly bad for him and that the best way forward for him would be to not let it weigh him down too badly and to put the work in. Throwing teammates under the bus and the whole twitter nonsense, it just hasn't been a good week in that regard combined with the benching.
I think Kizer had a bad week, he needs to put his head down and work until he's called under center again.
He's had a bad month. I think, and this is just an opinion, that he became overwhelmed with everything he needed to remember and keep track of. For example, while he was concentrating on getting rid of the ball and taking off running he stopped finding the open man. He needs to process more quickly and until the game slows way down for him I think he'll continue to struggle. It's not an indictment, just that I believe he's shown he needs time to sit and learn. I was all for him starting and learning on the job once he showed well in pre-season and after they cut Brock, but Kizer clearly began to regress in the areas he was good at while trying to improve on the areas that needed work. I think it became too much.
I think Hogan looked very similar last year during his limited play. The year within the system has made quite a difference. Of course, Hogan has a distinct advantage, starting three and a half years in a pro-style offense with a superior completion percentage. He's also a student of the game and likely spent a lot of time studying during the off season. Hopefully, Kizer will do the same whether he gets back on the field this year or not. Chances are he'll get back out there at some point this year.
I think Kizer had a bad week, he needs to put his head down and work until he's called under center again.
He's had a bad month. I think, and this is just an opinion, that he became overwhelmed with everything he needed to remember and keep track of. For example, while he was concentrating on getting rid of the ball and taking off running he stopped finding the open man. He needs to process more quickly and until the game slows way down for him I think he'll continue to struggle. It's not an indictment, just that I believe he's shown he needs time to sit and learn. I was all for him starting and learning on the job once he showed well in pre-season and after they cut Brock, but Kizer clearly began to regress in the areas he was good at while trying to improve on the areas that needed work. I think it became too much.
I think Hogan looked very similar last year during his limited play. The year within the system has made quite a difference. Of course, Hogan has a distinct advantage, starting three and a half years in a pro-style offense with a superior completion percentage. He's also a student of the game and likely spent a lot of time studying during the off season. Hopefully, Kizer will do the same whether he gets back on the field this year or not. Chances are he'll get back out there at some point this year.
Agreed all around, to be fair. I'm not really left with any ammo to defend Kizer outside the old "he's young, and needs work, and bla bla bla development"... I haven't seen a lot to be really happy about and we're a winless football team so that goes without saying the QB is a part of that. I agree bottom line he was overwhelmed out there and maybe it took Hue too long to notice/accept that too?
Wow. Probably wishes he could take that back. I'm sure he "liked" the support but threw the Browns under the bus, possibly unintentionally. You can "unlike" in Twitter so I wonder if he left it that way or pulled his "like".
I agree bottom line he was overwhelmed out there and maybe it took Hue too long to notice/accept that too?
Possibly, but I think Hue might have figured that going against the Jets would help him build some confidence. I don't know if pulling him before that game would have been the right thing to do, but pulling him after certainly was.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
I think they hoped that Kizer would improve and grow into the position.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
I think they hoped that Kizer would improve and grow into the position.
This is why starting Kizer early was not a mistake.
There was only one way to find out how well Kizer would sink or swim. We had to explore that option IMO.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
I think they hoped that Kizer would improve and grow into the position.
This is why starting Kizer early was not a mistake.
There was only one way to find out how well Kizer would sink or swim. We had to explore that option IMO.
He wasn’t ready ... all we learned is that a 7th grader isn’t ready for advanced calculus ...
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
I think they hoped that Kizer would improve and grow into the position.
Yep, and we have paid coaches and talent evaluators that should get these things right once in a while. We always miss out, fail or find some way to screw it up.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
I think they hoped that Kizer would improve and grow into the position.
This is why starting Kizer early was not a mistake.
There was only one way to find out how well Kizer would sink or swim. We had to explore that option IMO.
Completely disagree.
I thought it was clear that Kizer wasn't ready. Everything he is doing now he was doing then. Holding the ball too long, not having command of the offense, being late on throws.
I don't like Brock. But it was clear to me that Brock was more ready to start for the team then Kizer.
I am not writing Kizer off. I think the skillset is there. He comfort level in the offense. His ability to recognize and the willingness to throw the ball on time in rhythm to the areas dictated by the coverage need to catch up with his physical ability.
Hopefully the process wasn't slowed or damaged by him playing before he was ready.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
No. It's more of a curiosity. Obviously something changed between the start of the season and now.
Not related:
It was the right decision to start Kizer, but the team panicked after he was so bad and couldn't wait out the growing pains.
It was the wrong decision to start Kizer, but they did it anyway.
It was the right decision to start Kizer based on what they knew at the time, things have changed since then.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
No. It's more of a curiosity. Obviously something changed between the start of the season and now.
Not related:
It was the right decision to start Kizer, but the team panicked after he was so bad and couldn't wait out the growing pains.
It was the wrong decision to start Kizer, but they did it anyway.
It was the right decision to start Kizer based on what they knew at the time, things have changed since then.
Since it looks like we're stating our opinions as fact....
Nothing changed.
It was the wrong decision to start Kizer. Hue had to try something else and Hogan gave them a spark and looked like he could get the ball out on time which makes the offense work better.
It was not the right decision to start Kizer because he's showing the same flaws now as he showed in preseason, flaws that they hoped he could play through while improving. They tried it didn't work.
Playing Kizer early didn't work and now its Hogan turn and maybe Kizer can comeback with a better grasp of the offense.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
I think they hoped that Kizer would improve and grow into the position.
This is why starting Kizer early was not a mistake.
There was only one way to find out how well Kizer would sink or swim. We had to explore that option IMO.
Yep. Baptism by fire. All the other QBs in our division started early in the regular season. Is it really too much to ask for that a rookie QB comes in and plays competently?
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
I think they hoped that Kizer would improve and grow into the position.
This is why starting Kizer early was not a mistake.
There was only one way to find out how well Kizer would sink or swim. We had to explore that option IMO.
Yep. Baptism by fire. All the other QBs in our division started early in the regular season. Is it really too much to ask for that a rookie QB comes in and plays competently?
To be fair, every other QB in our division played quite many more games in college than did Kizer. Flacco was known for being very accurate (which is a bit of a surprise to me) and Ben went to a team that could win the Super Bowl with Kizer in Ben's rookie year with their running game and defense. Dalton was a 5yr collegian and joined a loaded Bengals team.
Interestingly enough, Hogan is the Browns QB with the most-similar college background of the other QBS in our division. Kizer isn't even close. That doesn't ensure Hogan will succeed and become the guy...but it's there.
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
No. It's more of a curiosity. Obviously something changed between the start of the season and now.
Not related:
It was the right decision to start Kizer, but the team panicked after he was so bad and couldn't wait out the growing pains.
It was the wrong decision to start Kizer, but they did it anyway.
It was the right decision to start Kizer based on what they knew at the time, things have changed since then.
Since it looks like we're stating our opinions as fact....
Nothing changed.
It was the wrong decision to start Kizer. Hue had to try something else and Hogan gave them a spark and looked like he could get the ball out on time which makes the offense work better.
It was not the right decision to start Kizer because he's showing the same flaws now as he showed in preseason, flaws that they hoped he could play through while improving. They tried it didn't work.
Playing Kizer early didn't work and now its Hogan turn and maybe Kizer can comeback with a better grasp of the offense.
I wasn't trying to state anything as a fact. Just brainstorming the situation.
Browns coach Hue Jackson will announce his Week 7 starter at quarterback on Wednesday. Kevin Hogan was scarcely better than DeShone Kizer in the Browns' latest dismal loss on Sunday. Jackson also claimed Kizer "learned a lot" by watching Hogan and the game unfold from the sideline. Whomever the Browns start at quarterback in Week 7 will have a nonexistent receiver corps and barely functional running game.
I feel sorry for Hue ... i really do .... hes getting blamed for all kinds of things hes not responsible for ... he has no qb .. NONE ... theres no good options ... NEVER WAS A GOOD ONE ....
Bit man i gotta tell you ... if hue sends Kizer back out there now hes making another mistake .... he could not have handled this any worse than he has ... and hes throwing another log on the fire if Kizer starts again anytime soon ...
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
No. It's more of a curiosity. Obviously something changed between the start of the season and now.
Not related:
It was the right decision to start Kizer, but the team panicked after he was so bad and couldn't wait out the growing pains.
It was the wrong decision to start Kizer, but they did it anyway.
It was the right decision to start Kizer based on what they knew at the time, things have changed since then.
Since it looks like we're stating our opinions as fact....
Nothing changed.
It was the wrong decision to start Kizer. Hue had to try something else and Hogan gave them a spark and looked like he could get the ball out on time which makes the offense work better.
It was not the right decision to start Kizer because he's showing the same flaws now as he showed in preseason, flaws that they hoped he could play through while improving. They tried it didn't work.
Playing Kizer early didn't work and now its Hogan turn and maybe Kizer can comeback with a better grasp of the offense.
I wasn't trying to state anything as a fact. Just brainstorming the situation.
I think a factor in the mishandling of Kizer was the glow of having gone 4-0 in the preseason. The mistake of thinking Kiser's preseason performance was indicative of what he could do in real games.
Of course Kizer wasn't gonna say "I'm not ready."
I think if Hue Jackson was "staying the course", he would have sat Kizer and never let him play for a year.
No matter how badly the Browns lost and how badly plenty of half-wits would have said, "He needs to put Kizer in."
So has anyone affiliated with the team acknowledged that starting Kizer early was a mistake? Now he needs to sit and learn, but he didn't at the beginning of the season? What changed? Did they not evaluate him properly?
Do you really expect someone from the team to admit the above?
No. It's more of a curiosity. Obviously something changed between the start of the season and now.
Not related:
It was the right decision to start Kizer, but the team panicked after he was so bad and couldn't wait out the growing pains.
It was the wrong decision to start Kizer, but they did it anyway.
It was the right decision to start Kizer based on what they knew at the time, things have changed since then.
Since it looks like we're stating our opinions as fact....
Nothing changed.
It was the wrong decision to start Kizer. Hue had to try something else and Hogan gave them a spark and looked like he could get the ball out on time which makes the offense work better.
It was not the right decision to start Kizer because he's showing the same flaws now as he showed in preseason, flaws that they hoped he could play through while improving. They tried it didn't work.
Playing Kizer early didn't work and now its Hogan turn and maybe Kizer can comeback with a better grasp of the offense.
I wasn't trying to state anything as a fact. Just brainstorming the situation.
I think a factor in the mishandling of Kizer was the glow of having gone 4-0 in the preseason. The mistake of thinking Kiser's preseason performance was indicative of what he could do in real games.
Of course Kizer wasn't gonna say "I'm not ready."
I think if Hue Jackson was "staying the course", he would have sat Kizer and never let him play for a year.
No matter how badly the Browns lost and how badly plenty of half-wits would have said, "He needs to put Kizer in."
I kind of agree, but wouldn't hesitate to put him in once he could make the reads.
He has enough of the other tools to be able to play at that point.
Jackson also claimed Kizer "learned a lot" by watching Hogan and the game unfold from the sideline.
I think this is the fallacy of what we are watching here... improvement isn't going to be on a week to week basis or having that "AHA" moment where a light comes on mid-week or watching somebody else fail..
He's going to struggle a lot until he doesn't. It's all going to look painfully similar for a while. Likely what will happen, if he's going to get better and turn a corner it's going to be after he struggles all year, then gets into the off-season when things slow down and he really has a chance to evaluate what happened and why it happened.. then he can come back next year with a better perspective. I do not expect any big light bulb moments of improvement for the rest of this year. I'm hoping he stays healthy and I'm hoping to see flashes of potential talent.
All of this will, of course, lead to speculation about what the Browns will do with the #1 pick again next year since he will not have turned a corner yet.
I think a factor in the mishandling of Kizer was the glow of having gone 4-0 in the preseason. The mistake of thinking Kiser's preseason performance was indicative of what he could do in real games.
Of course Kizer wasn't gonna say "I'm not ready."
I think if Hue Jackson was "staying the course", he would have sat Kizer and never let him play for a year.
No matter how badly the Browns lost and how badly plenty of half-wits would have said, "He needs to put Kizer in."
Still, Thomas -- who's played with a constellation of quarterbacks during his decade-plus in Cleveland -- went out of his way to say this week: "I think they're grooming Brock to be the starter Week 1," adding: "Just because DeShone might be good in a few years doesn't mean he's ready now."
Browns All-Pro left tackle Joe Thomas believes DeShone Kizer needs more time before he's thrown into the fire of a starting job.
Cleveland's rookie quarterback has taken those words to heart.
"He's been in the NFL since I've been in seventh grade, so whatever he says is probably pretty accurate," Kizer noted Thursday, per The Plain Dealer. "Obviously, it's still the same message that I continue to push. The more time you have, the more comfortable you become, the more confident you are throwing the ball, and he's just seconding that statement."
Said Kizer: "This is a process that has been preached to me from day one how this is going to go. When they're ready and I'm ready, I can trust in the fact that the coach is going to put me out there. So as long as I can continue to trust in them, which I will, there isn't really a timeline for myself. I'm just trying to get better every day and allow coach [Hue] Jackson to make the calls."
It's not that Kizer doesn't want to start -- he certainly does -- but the second-rounder has taken a realistic approach to his development ever since the Browns nabbed him the draft.
I think hogan deserves another start. At home, with another week of work with the 1s. Mary Kay has her mind made up - such as it is - and it also seems like those calling for Kizer again have short memories. He could use another week or two off.
Sit Kizer until next season. Do we really need to ruin him.
There is no next season. If he doesn't get it right this year, everyone will be fired, and we'll be drafting another quarterback in 2018. Kizer has to grow up quickly.
Let me make sure I understand this.Kizer a 21 year old who myself, Kelly his HC, and others felt should stay in school is drafted. He gets next to zero reps with the first team. He is on the worst team in football. Doesn't have a number one, two or three receiver. Has an average at best running game.
And his career is over? He has no future in the Nfl?
And Hue Jackson is at fault?
Give me a fning break.
There is not a pro player personnel guy who would share that assessment.
Let me make sure I understand this.Kizer a 21 year old who myself, Kelly his HC, and others felt should stay in school is drafted. He gets next to zero reps with the first team. He is on the worst team in football. Doesn't have a number one, two or three receiver. Has an average at best running game.
And his career is over? He has no future in the Nfl?
And Hue Jackson is at fault?
Give me a fning break.
There is not a pro player personnel guy who would share that assessment.
Yes, Hue Jackson is at fault!!! Hue is not a so called QB GURU. He is not a QB Whisperer!!! He is an imposter in a high level position. His ego is killing him. Kizer would be wise to fool everyone into thinking he is a serviceable QB so that he can collect millions as a back up instead of going out into the public getting a real job. This whole thing is a joke!
I don't think Kizer should have been taken out in the first place.
Be that as it may, going back to him after one week just seems silly. Is Hue's decisions based on conviction or fear? If Kizer was bad enough to be benched last week, he's likely just as bad this week. On the other hand, we don't know if Hogan's poor performance was a one off or not.
I don't think Kizer should have been taken out in the first place.
Be that as it may, going back to him after one week just seems silly.
Indeed it does. Just a total lack of unfairness and without clue. But it's the Browns we're talking about here, so I'm ready for it tomorrow. And I'm ready for Kizer to come in and we'll see the bad throws and etc as before being benched for the one single game haha.
I don't think Kizer should have been taken out in the first place.
Be that as it may, going back to him after one week just seems silly. Is Hue's decisions based on conviction or fear? If Kizer was bad enough to be benched last week, he's likely just as bad this week. On the other hand, we don't know if Hogan's poor performance was a one off or not.
I'm only saying that Hue said, at the beginning when he named Kizer the starter, that he was sticking with him no matter what.
He apparently had good reason for his convictions at that time. He had to know that Kizer was going to struggle. Perhaps not as much as he has, but he had to know.
I suspect we'll see either Hogan or Kessler before the season is over.
But if Kizer survives this, he may be tougher for it.
I understand your point, and I do think it comes down to how much he struggled. He was beginning to regress. Possibly do to an overload of information.
I pretty much predicted how this would go and it did. And I predict if we follow the same path with Hogan it will continue to go this way. You may not know but I believe that I do.
I think if the team could play a running game and limit the Qb's throws to 10 or 11 on the whole day, that there would be an opportunity to make more plays than mistakes.
I think what we've seen all year is the team puts the offense in 2 minute mode when it's not the game situation of 2 minute offense.
And I think Kizer is wild enough, to just maybe pull off a 2 minute score, at the end of a game. (if they'd limit the 2 minute offense to when the game situation calls for it.)
Has this team tried a day where the offense ran the ball 7 out of ten times on the day, or 8, or 9 out of 10. And really limited the quarterbacks, (rookie quarterbacks') opportunities to screw up and lose the game.
Have they tried that. What did they do in the Pittsburg game, I think that was the most competitive, at least for the first half, until the referees gave them boneheaded penalties to continue drives.
I agree. I think it would be a bad idea to start Kizer this week. More so because I think it could hinder his development than anything else.
It is foolish to throw Kizer back in there now!!!! But knowing Hue, he will probably do it. Ha Ha Ha....WOW
NO it's not, Kizer gives them the best chance to win; and he has more longterm upside, and figures into the plans longterm moreso also. They may as well go with Kizer and see what he can do, and don't worry, if history tells us anything:
They won't be able to keep one Qb healthy for the entire year anyway, so, there's that.
You want to run the ball more? Good idea. How about we do something different and see what we have in Matt Dayes and Duke running it. We can still run Crow too but not as much. Let's see what the other guys can do. If it works it will take some pressure off DK or whomever starts for us. Dayes has a chip on his shoulder with something to prove. Let's give him a shot.
I think Crow needs more carries, not less. He gets better as the game goes on, and IMHO should be carrying 25-30 times a game. I like Duke to spell him, but Dayes' 2.3 YPC so far doesn't instill much confidence.
Hue needs an intervention ... hes coaching like Kizer’s playing ... OVERWHELMED right now ...
If he starts Kizer again this week it tells me he’s not thinking straight ...
That makes no sense ... NONE ...
Re-sign RG3 and start him for all i care ... id send Hogan or Kessler out there in a heartbeat ... Kizer needs to sit ... hes simply not ready ... playing him is not helping him, if its doing anything its hurting his development ....
Hue may not be destroying Kizer but hes certainly not helping him progress if he sends him back out there ... throwing him back there out now would just be WRONG ...
I think if the choices are Kizer, Hogan, and Kessler, and Kessler has spent the year in street clothes; that the best option is to start Kizer the next 10 games, (and playoffs, ),
and just limit his opportunities to make mistakes by not asking him to throw the ball, very much at all.
I don't know..........Crow averaged 4.8 yds per carry against Houston. He's struggled some this year, but teams have been putting an extra man in the box because they know he is our best offensive skill player. He also averaged 4.8 per carry last year.
I don't know..........Crow averaged 4.8 yds per carry against Houston. He's struggled some this year, but teams have been putting an extra man in the box because they know he is our best offensive skill player. He also averaged 4.8 per carry last year.
Crow ain't the problem.
Remember back in about 2006-2009? we had a guy named Jerome Harrison.. shifty little back, made a lot of big plays.. Jamal Lewis was our every down back and he had one good year and then seemed to decline quickly... Harrison put up gawdy numbers when he got touches and everybody wanted him to get more and more touches...
So then we made him the feature back and his numbers went to average (or below), he was here one year, then shipped out, ended up in Detroit and was out of the league in a year or two...
And just to be clear........I am not bad-mouthing Duke. I think we have a pretty good one-two punch w/our RBs. They would be having much more success if we could even just get to below average in the passing game.
So then we made him the feature back and his numbers went to average (or below), he was here one year, then shipped out, ended up in Detroit and was out of the league in a year or two...
Jerome Harrison retired because he had a brain tumor.
Interesting stats, cfrs. Kizer vs Hogan frequency similar with Hogan connecting more often. While Kizer's Completion % is at the low end, Hogan's is in the league ballpark...
You saw them. I told you this would end just like every other back up QB that the fans were convinced would be an improvement. It did and it will continue to.
Everybody who reads this board saw it. So there's no sense trying to say that nobody knows or nobody knew. I've seen this same movie for 15 years now. There's not suddenly going to be a new ending.
I know it gets frustrating when the worst case scenario keeps happening. But I would figure fans should be learning how it ends by now. If not? Shame on them, but it won't be shame on me.
So HOGAN had a subpar game and some here seen enough pfffft KIZER had 5 bad games and your positive HOGAN aint the guy and some still have faith in KIZER WOW
So what's your answer? Start no one? You know everything that's going to happen because you've seen it all before?Why do you even get out of bed in the morning if you know how it's all going to end? This is just more of your "I know we run better to the left then we do to the right because I'm always right" fluff. You're guessing just like everyone else. That's okay, just don't try to sell me your opinion as fact. Or maybe you're just an expert at 20/20 hindsight. I know the Browns suck. I know our quarterbacks suck. I've been watching them suck for a lot longer than 15 years. That doesn't always mean they always will suck so why pretend you have all the answers?
If we are going lose, I'd rather have a good idea of whether or not Kizer can grow and understand what exactly he brings to the table prior to the 2018 draft where we are in a position (again) to draft a top tier QB. I have a feeling that the FO will not making the same mistake THREE years in a row.
I just don't think it makes any difference in the outcome of the game no matter which one starts. I've seen zero evidence that indicates that it will.
I agree, but I think that we can harm Kizer by starting him. I am not saying I am right, but in my opinion, I think it's best that he sits and watches for now, while still being coached up [especially in the film room] a lot.
I pretty much predicted how this would go and it did. And I predict if we follow the same path with Hogan it will continue to go this way. You may not know but I believe that I do.
j/c... Hue has no other option but to start Kizer. Hogan looked real bad. Kessler hasn't been active in any game yet.
Back to Kizer is his only option. Kizer can't get worse...start winning? depends on our mistakes. We stop killing ourselves with turnovers and penalties the Defense can hold up for us to have a good shot at winning. Any game this year.
man looks like so many abandoning the ship and I'm talking about writers and analysts.
Coach Hue Jackson named DeShone Kizer the Browns' starting quarterback for Week 7 against the Titans.
There's some speculation the Browns benched Kizer in Week 6 at Houston to avoid a Kizer-Deshaun Watson matchup after the Browns passed on Watson, who is playing at an MVP level, in order to come back and take Kizer 40 picks later. Kevin Hogan was dreadful in his start, and Jackson is going back to the rookie Kizer. Kizer has far more upside as a thrower and runner, but he has to cut down on the turnovers and sacks taken for this Cleveland offense to get off the mat.
If we are going lose, I'd rather have a good idea of whether or not Kizer can grow and understand what exactly he brings to the table prior to the 2018 draft where we are in a position (again) to draft a top tier QB. I have a feeling that the FO will not making the same mistake THREE years in a row.
Two things:
You got what you wanted.
Who will the QB we draft high next year?
Hahaha watching Kizer is just like Weeden to me minus the scramble ability. 0-16, here we go!
We're so pathetic. I knew this was coming and prepared for it but in all reality, why do I even care? I'm not watching this joke on Sunday anymore.
I just don't see how 1 week of watching will make that much of a difference for him. If it was several weeks, then I'd at least understand, but one week makes no sense to me.
I agree, but I think that we can harm Kizer by starting him. I am not saying I am right, but in my opinion, I think it's best that he sits and watches for now, while still being coached up [especially in the film room] a lot.
Does that make sense?
It does by looking at one side of the coin.
I've seen QB's fight through the fire and learn by playing. I've seen QB's do better by learning from sitting. I don't believe there is a single answer to the question. I think it depends on the QB as to which way will work best.
As for which will work best with Kizer, I simply don't know.
I've already stated that at this point, it really doesn't make any difference. The end result will be the same.
Quote:
You know everything that's going to happen because you've seen it all before?Why do you even get out of bed in the morning if you know how it's all going to end?
Does it bother you so badly that you were wrong and I was right that you feel the need to try to move the goal post and make fun of the one who was right this time around? Yeah, that's what I thought.
Quote:
You're guessing just like everyone else. That's okay, just don't try to sell me your opinion as fact. Or maybe you're just an expert at 20/20 hindsight. I know the Browns suck. I know our quarterbacks suck. I've been watching them suck for a lot longer than 15 years. That doesn't always mean they always will suck so why pretend you have all the answers?
But I did have the answer, didn't I? And you're right to the point that if they would quit passing on good QB's in the draft, our QB's wouldn't suck. But they did pass on them and they do suck.
I don't understand how one week off or only giving Hogan one week to prove himself helped either QB... This is pure knee jerk reaction to me and tells me Hue is feeling the heat so much that he's beginning to get desperate. That's not good, he's going to lose the team now, watch and see.
I haven't been on the 'fire hue', 'blow it up', 'fire the FO' bandwagons but I'm getting closer by the day on Hue. Time will tell.
I'm ok with Kizer. He's moved the ball well. He needs to take care of it now. Besides we kicked our only Vet QB to the curb in the off season. Big mistake.
I said it before I'll say it again. "You keep your Veteran QB until you have a good replacement" This situation is self inflicted by the Browns FO IMO. Nothing new but the date and time. The beat goes on.
A thought just hit me on this. Maybe Hue and Kizer weren't focused on Hogan and our O last week, maybe they were focused on how Watson was succeeding. This makes good sense actually.
If Hue and Kizer spent the game dissecting how Watson was able to look like an all pro QB as a rookie; maybe just maybe Kizer did learn some valuable info to apply to his game.
This makes more sense in this light. But I still am confused as to what one week off could have accomplished otherwise.
Kevin Hogan had his ribs X-rayed after Houston loss. Results were negative. Hue Jackson will address if that affects him being third QB when he meets media
IT'S HORRIBLE that Hue is trashing Hogan and throwing him under the bus by starting Kizer.... WOW
Hogan threw himself under the bus by throwing every sideline pass out of bounds and every pass inside the stripes to the opposing team. Hogan was awful. He’s got no velocity. Making every out route, and curl a potential pick 6. Kiser may throw interceptions but at least I see a real NFL arm. Hogan is not a starter in this league. Kiser may not be either but he has a far better chance than Hogan. If we’re going to throw 3 interceptions a game I’d rather watch Kiser doing it knowing there’s maybe microscopically small chance he can improve.
IT'S HORRIBLE that Hue is trashing Hogan and throwing him under the bus by starting Kizer.... WOW
I actually think thats an area Hue has improved in ...
Last year he threw CK under the bus ... ran over him and backed it up a few times to run over him again ... *L*
This year ... not sure he could have handled it worse ... but he hasn’t thrown either of them under the bus ...
IMO right now Hue is OVERWHELMED just like Kizer ... putting Kizer tells me he’s not thinking straight ...
You think he would've given Hogan until the bye week to get a better evaluation of him instead of just yanking him like that. I didn't like the play calling in that game for him at all. Two of the interceptions were flukish. One sailed and got away when he tried to throw over the LB. The other one hit the LB right in the bread basket on the sidelines. The CB caught him staring down the WR and jumped it on the other. Hues coaching seems to ruin the natural ability of our QBs. Plus the complicated offense is ridiculous. Now he trashes Kevin.
Kevin Hogan had his ribs X-rayed after Houston loss. Results were negative. Hue Jackson will address if that affects him being third QB when he meets media
I think people are hung up on the QB and unconsciously forget that the offense doesn't have the skill position pieces to support Kizer or any QB (other then established vets) right now.
And even with a vet QB I think Hue and staff need to look at their offense game plan. I don't think the staff has fully accepted the limitations on offense and adapted the playcalling to suit.
People have short memories. No matter how bad Kizer and Hogan have been, it's nowhere close to how bad Kessler was last year. You can't be afraid to throw the ball. It doesn't get more basic than that.
Kevin Hogan had his ribs X-rayed after Houston loss. Results were negative. Hue Jackson will address if that affects him being third QB when he meets media
Well it looks like we may have seen the last of Hogan this season (unless injuries dictate otherwise). There is now no way that Hue can go back to Hogan as a starter. I don't agree with the choice, but Hue is the guy pulling the strings...
IT'S HORRIBLE that Hue is trashing Hogan and throwing him under the bus by starting Kizer.... WOW
Was it Hue driving the bus or was it Hogan releasing the parking brake then jumping under it?
Kizer released the parking brake game after game, and got a "chance" at least. Hogan gets burned and axed after one game, but just being real - I do think he's injured.
So Kizer learned what he needs to learn after sitting for one week? Or is he just the best out of a bunch of bad options?
I don't think Kessler is good or will ever be good, but part of me thinks that, if we are trying to win, he would be the best option because he at least wouldn't hurt the team.
(I know the players and coaches are physically trying to win the games on Sunday. I am not sure if that is the overall goal of the team in 2017.)
Something just occurred to me. I've seen something like this before a long time ago with the Steelers. The QB's involved were Terry Hanratty and Terry Bradshaw Bradshaw was the chosen one for sure but wasn't performing well and Noll yanked him for Hanratty.
If memory serves correctly, he made that switch several times and finally the light just went on for Bradshaw. That was the end of Hanratty.
This isn't really the same thing because, again, if memory serves, Hanratty was at least thought of as a good QB... Respected.
But it just made me wonder if Hue is trying to pull a Noll with these guys.
Just a random thought.. Nothing meant by it really.
We've reached the musical chairs at QB portion of the season. A tad earlier than last season I might add.
Why do I hear Yakety Sax when I read your post?
The music stopped and Kizer was the only one left in a chair.
Music might be starting up again before too long after today's press conference....
Nate Ulrich‏ @NateUlrichABJ #Browns HC Hue Jackson said he won't say DeShone Kizer will start for the rest of this season but he hopes that is the case
Something just occurred to me. I've seen something like this before a long time ago with the Steelers. The QB's involved were Terry Hanratty and Terry Bradshaw Bradshaw was the chosen one for sure but wasn't performing well and Noll yanked him for Hanratty.
If memory serves correctly, he made that switch several times and finally the light just went on for Bradshaw. That was the end of Hanratty.
This isn't really the same thing because, again, if memory serves, Hanratty was at least thought of as a good QB... Respected.
But it just made me wonder if Hue is trying to pull a Noll with these guys.
Just a random thought.. Nothing meant by it really.
My memory may be off here, but I am pretty sure around 1973 or 1974 Noll also pulled Bradshaw and went with Joe Gilliam for a while, so if my memory is correct, Bradshaw had that done to him twice. Noll was not trying to make friends.
I did actually think of a possible positive from Sunday regarding Kizer. From a mental perspective seeing Hogan struggle could make Kizer feel like "hey maybe it is not just me", and he can relax if he is pressing. Every athlete is different and with him being so young one week off could help. Time will tell. And if Kizer plays the rest of the year with no improvement we have a better answer regarding drafting a QB with our first pick.
To Hue's credit, he made a smart decision to end his mistake rather than continuing it just to save face. I'm somewhat troubled that Hue actually seemed to believe that Kevin Hogan had a future and gave us the best chance to win, but I'll consider it a positive it only took a week to come to his senses.
I'm a little worried about any negative trade off. I don't think there is much a quarterback can learn on the sidelines over the course of a single week, but he did learn that Hue's faith in him has faltered, and that's a destructive message to send a young quarterback - this is particularly true when Hue hasn't benched anyone else for poor play.
It remains to be seen if Kizer can come back and play loose and relaxed. Hue needs to stop with the perpetual benching if that's ever going to happen, otherwise any chance Kizer has of finding rhythm is never going to arrive.
I'm glad Kizer is back, however. The kid needs an opportunity to get it right.
General reply/ We all assume Hue is making the decisions. Or maybe going to Hogan was a f/u to Sashi? Maybe Hue was going to start Brock O. so Sashi cut him? Hue doesn't seem concerned about his job like a paid puppet. All we know is this sucks.
For those of you stuck on Hue sitting Kizer one week to learn from a different field of view.. I think it was less about that, and more about Hue wanting to see what Hogan could do when given the chance. Hogan did zilch, so now back to Kizer.
I think some of you are making it a lot more complicated than it really is.
For those of you stuck on Hue sitting Kizer one week to learn from a different field of view.. I think it was less about that, and more about Hue wanting to see what Hogan could do when given the chance. Hogan did zilch, so now back to Kizer.
I think some of you are making it a lot more complicated than it really is.
I think it's more about Hogan being injured (ribs). Then Hue saying "whelp Hogan sucked, back to kizer." I think if Hogan is healthy he'd be starting this week.
For those of you stuck on Hue sitting Kizer one week to learn from a different field of view.. I think it was less about that, and more about Hue wanting to see what Hogan could do when given the chance. Hogan did zilch, so now back to Kizer.
I think some of you are making it a lot more complicated than it really is.
I think it's more about Hogan being injured (ribs). Then Hue saying "whelp Hogan sucked, back to kizer." I think if Hogan is healthy he'd be starting this week.
I think it’s more about Hogan sucking than his being injured since he played until the end of the game.
BEREA, Ohio -- DeShone Kizer's benching lasted about as long as a toddler time-out in preschool, but it lit a fire under him just the same.
"It definitely sparked my competitive juices,'' Kizer said Wednesday after being reinstated as the starter for Sunday's game against the Titans. "It was definitely important for me throughout the week to make sure that I'm doing extra. In this league, you gotta talk less and do more. We gotta make sure we're out there grinding the way we should be."
Kizer didn't let the benching shake his confidence.
DeShone Kizer looks to be Browns QB for years to come
"I stayed on my same path and I trusted the process and I knew there was going to be another opportunity for me to potentially play this year. Obviously it came sooner than most expected,'' he said.
Ideally, Kizer would've stayed on the bench for three games until the bye week, but Kevin Hogan threw three first-half interceptions during Sunday's 33-17 loss to the Texans. If Jackson's going to play a young, struggling quarterback, it might as well be the leading candidate for longterm starter.
Hogan is also struggling with a rib injury, and will be inactive while Cody Kessler serves as the backup.
"I didn't know how long it was going to take (for Kizer to return). I just know (Kizer) was going to play again. ... He's playing this week and I'm looking forward to watching him play.''
Jackson will likely try to ride it out with Kizer as long as he can. The Browns need to know if he can be their man before they head into the QB-rich 2018 draft.
"I'm not going to say the rest of the season, but I know he's the guy right now,'' said Jackson. "I hope he is. I hope there are no more times we have to take him out and let him reset himself.''
What Browns' DeShone Kizer learned being benched Still, Jackson has no regrets.
"We're talking about a young quarterback who's 21 years old, whose learning the National Football League," said Jackson. "I thought it was the right thing to do. ... I think we'll be better for it and I think he'll be better for it and hopefully we'll see the growth."
Jackson put all of Kizer's mistakes on a DVD, including his nine interceptions -- four in the red zone -- to help him correct his mistakes.
"I remember the conversation we had in my office about it and then watching him be so into it on the sideline this past week,'' said Jackson. "He was able to see where I was coming from.''
Trying to carry the NFL's youngest team is a tall order for a rookie quarterback who started only two seasons at Notre Dame. Trying to turn around a 1-21 team is an enormous burden.
"That's why in my opinion, it's the greatest job on earth and it's also the most difficult job on earth,'' said Kizer. "This opportunity right now in front of me is the best opportunity you can possibly have. To walk into a team who just won the Super Bowl and undefeated would be a completely different situation, you'd be able to learn in a different way. But for me, this is the best opportunity for me to learn about myself, learn about my teammates and what it takes to win in this game."
Despite being last or second-last in the NFL in 10 of 11 QB categories, Kizer believes he can turn things around by eliminating the interceptions. He leads the NFL with nine.
"We lost three games by three points,'' Kizer said. "(If they don't) turn the ball over in the red zone, those would be three wins and we'd be right on the path we want to be heading. Our goals are still there. We have another half of division play that we have to go out and execute on.
"We have quite a few games in front of us we can go out and win. It's about treating ... each week as one of its own and make sure we're grinding as hard as we can to make sure we're successful that week."
He's aware Oakland's Derek Carr went 0-10 as a rookie before turning it around his second year.
"For me, 0-10 and 5-5 in this league are very close to each other," he said. "I'm trying to make sure that we can do whatever we can to realize those things that are stopping us from being 3-3 ... and focus in on them. Obviously it's turnovers in the red zone, it's lulls at the beginning of games.''
Jackson acknowledged he's tried to make Kizer as comfortable as possible in the offense. Heading into the Titans game, he's last in completion percentage at 50.9 and QB rating at 49.5.
"You want to have easy throws," Jackson said. "Our goal is to be quarterback-friendly and have him go out and feel really good about what he's doing and you look up and they're 13-of-14 and however many yards and a touchdown or two.
"That's the goal. We just haven't been able to pull it off yet. So we've just got to keep working at it."
If Kizer "gets it" between the ears, learns to put touch on the ball when needed. sees the field better, etc etc...He has the arm talent and size to be one of the better QB's in the league...
he just won't learn it by sitting a week...
if we just hold his feet to the fire the rest of the year and he pulls a Goff or Carr...I wouldn't complain...I'll just **B** every week til the off season lol
"Jackson put all of Kizer's mistakes on a DVD, including his nine interceptions -- four in the red zone -- to help him correct his mistakes."
I like that Hue did that. Not to put Kizer down, but to put a spot light on Kizer's errors. Hopefully that helped Kizer some, so he can start working on correcting those things.
101...Agree, allowing Kizer to watch his own mistakes is a great idea. Kizer can rerun those mistakes as many times as he needs, to better understand what he did wrong.
I'd put good money on Kizer watched that DVD more than once
I'd put more money that it was an incredibly LONG in duration too hahaha. Many mistakes to cover. Oh well, one week sitting though, dang, we're heading to the SB now hahahaha
What have we done that is so complicated? I think we have asked our qbs to make simpler reads, not more difficult ones. There is a reason we don't throw over the middle much.
Hogan as mentioned a while ago just is not an NFL starter.
Kizer gets time to heal, regroup and start his 2nd assault on the NFL game. Lets hope he improves.
Kessler I see is now next man up. I've stated he is our most Accurate passing QB and was always our best shot at winning this season. We'll see how that turns out. Yeah yeah I know his arm is weak.
Next year especially if we start winning games and are not in that top 5 pick bracket...I want us to get Baker Mansfield. He is the WOW accuracy guy. He will drop cause of his 6'1" height not in the 2nd round maybe but available when we pick. Strong arm and good leadership.
What have we done that is so complicated? I think we have asked our qbs to make simpler reads, not more difficult ones. There is a reason we don't throw over the middle much.
Makes sense. But is there a reason why we do not defend the throw over the middle?
What have we done that is so complicated? I think we have asked our qbs to make simpler reads, not more difficult ones. There is a reason we don't throw over the middle much.
Makes sense. But is there a reason why we do not defend the throw over the middle?
What have we done that is so complicated? I think we have asked our qbs to make simpler reads, not more difficult ones. There is a reason we don't throw over the middle much.
Makes sense. But is there a reason why we do not defend the throw over the middle?
What have we done that is so complicated? I think we have asked our qbs to make simpler reads, not more difficult ones. There is a reason we don't throw over the middle much.
Makes sense. But is there a reason why we do not defend the throw over the middle?
"Jackson put all of Kizer's mistakes on a DVD, including his nine interceptions -- four in the red zone -- to help him correct his mistakes."
I like that Hue did that. Not to put Kizer down, but to put a spot light on Kizer's errors. Hopefully that helped Kizer some, so he can start working on correcting those things.
I hope Hue and staff do some self-scouting and look at what they're doing offensively and in the passing game specifically.
I also think Hue should think about letting Al Saunders call the plays if the offense continues this current level of anemic production.
After Hogan moved the ball well in the clean-up effort when Kizer was struggling and was benched vs the Jets I thought the offensive issues were more on Kizer then I realized. But after the Texan's game I think that half was an aberration.
I like Hue and absolutely 100% think he should be retained. ^^I'm adding the above caveat to be clear that I'm writing this opinion from a team improvement standpoint and not a tear it down standpoint.
Great read there, nice eye opening info. I would always assume the middle of the field would be the most thrown. As I would assume its easier to throw accurately in front of you....versus to the left or right of you. Then again LBs scavenge that area normally, and safeties on top of them.
Thanks. Been claiming this for awhile, that we do not use routes regularly that other NFL teams make money on. Avoid the middle. Cross, dig, slant should help some lame receivers. We refuse to use these.
Throwing Hue's sideline pattern deep helps the D who have sideline as an extra defender. TE seam, look in, these are often there. Our selection sucks and it helps the defense. We are better than this if use stop doing and repeating some of the predictable crappy calls that are hurting us.
PS Thanks for this. I would risk another loss trying to do some of this that beat us. The stats for Packers & Falcons & several others really use these well. Two yard sidewinder check downs hurt us and kill drives. Roll him.
"We lost three games by three points,'' Kizer said. "(If they don't) turn the ball over in the red zone, those would be three wins and we'd be right on the path we want to be heading. Our goals are still there. We have another half of division play that we have to go out and execute on.
This is amongst my favourite lines from Kizer.
Six of Kizer's interceptions have come inside the red zone. Seven of nine have come inside opposition territory.
Kizer has actually moved the ball quite well but has made mistakes in the moments where mistakes just cannot be made. Not all of it is his fault, either, as three interceptions have come off the receivers hands, two of which were huge first downs. That's a large part of why a singular aspect of Kizer's play makes up for his worst moments;
Deshone Kizer on 3rd down: 19/41 (46%) for 238 yards, 0 touchdowns to 4 interceptions, 25.3 passer rating.
In fact, to pinpoint it even further, Kizer on 3rd down of a distance between 3-7 to the down: 2/10 (20%) for 15 yards, 0 touchdowns, 3 interceptions, 0 passer rating.
Here is another interesting note: Kizer on 2nd and 11+ is: 4/12 (33.3%) for 13 yards, 0 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 2.8 passer rating.
This, to me, highlights issues his issues with forcing passes and the game being a little too quick for him right now. As I've said, and will continue to say, I don't think that's the end of the world and it reminds me a lot of what I saw from Jared Goff as a rookie - In fact, Goff had similar issues of being much more consistently bad in similar situations (Goff, for example, had a passer rating in the 3rd and 3/7 category of 43.)
The big trade off was Kizer moves the ball better than Goff did, but makes more mistakes. Kizer has 977 yards in 4 1/2 games, Goff had 1,105 yards in 7 games (over 20 attempts in all). Our frustration is Kizer making too many mistakes, Rams frustration was Goff making a lot of mistakes and not moving the ball.
Evidently, it boils down to a hilariously simple logic: Rookies play poorly in bad situations.
If something goes wrong on first down, a penalty or a sack, Kizer seems to quickly make a mistake trying to gain those yards back to avoid a 3rd and long. In 3rd down situations, Kizer tends to make mistakes trying to convert.
If Kizer can work to correct those issues, his game will turn around pretty quickly. As he correctly stated, we've put ourselves in winning situations, as much as it can seem otherwise, but we haven't been able to make the play that turns a winning situation in to a win.
My big advice to Kizer, if I was a coach, would be simply dipping in to the platitudes: Take the checkdown or throw it away, live to fight another day, we'll get them next time. That's a platitude because Kizer is doing what a lot of young players do: Snowballing one mistake with another when his back is against the wall.
I don't entirely blame him for some of the struggles. Another thing important to remember is that Kizer's stat line when we're losing by more than nine points is his worst: 26/55 (47.3%, down from 64.3% otherwise) for 275 yards (5.00 average, down from 9.11 otherwise) for 1 touchdown to 5 interceptions, 30 passer rating (down 24 points).
In some ways, I really admire it. We've got a 21 year old developmental quarterback who inherited a 1-15 team with substandard receivers. He's put it all on his back with a gunslinger mentality and hasn't once shied away from leaving it all out on the field. However admirable that may be, I do hope in his return he starts to play things a little more smart. Give me desperation mistakes in the 4th Q with it all on the line, but don't rush trying to get it all back and put the game out of reach in the process.
I have high hopes for Kizer coming back. The week off might have done him the world of good, giving him a moment to catch his breath and slow things down. I enjoyed watching his presser this week, he's one of those really nice kids you want to see do well, and beating up on the Titans would go down a treat.
Hue is just game planning this to surprise Pittsburgh in game two with 80% over the middle passes and an upset victory to save his job. We beat Pitt and all is forgiven. lol
I agree, we don't use the TE enough on traditional TE routes.
A TE should be a young QB's best friend. With the two that we have, it should almost always be a mismatch. It does seem that Hue's O isn't TE friendly.
What have we done that is so complicated? I think we have asked our qbs to make simpler reads, not more difficult ones. There is a reason we don't throw over the middle much.
Makes sense. But is there a reason why we do not defend the throw over the middle?
What have we done that is so complicated? I think we have asked our qbs to make simpler reads, not more difficult ones. There is a reason we don't throw over the middle much.
Makes sense. But is there a reason why we do not defend the throw over the middle?
Exactly the point that I have been trying to make. Our TE is under-utilized...
Tyler Eifert ... nuff said!!!!
u guys are getting ridicoulous ...
U wanna say our TE’s are underutilized ... no problem,go for it .. once u say Hue’s O is not TE friendly, u lose ALL CREDIBILITY ... we have NO CLUE WHY ... maybe its because there our best two recievers and teams are taking them away ... I HAVE NO CLUE ... BUT NEITHER DO U ...
Hue’s becoming the Donald Trump of the Cleveland Browns ... EVERYTHINGS HIS FAULT!!!!
Exactly the point that I have been trying to make. Our TE is under-utilized...
Tyler Eifert ... nuff said!!!!
u guys are getting ridicoulous ...
U wanna say our TE’s are underutilized ... no problem,go for it .. once u say Hue’s O is not TE friendly, u lose ALL CREDIBILITY ... we have NO CLUE WHY ... maybe its because there our best two recievers and teams are taking them away ... I HAVE NO CLUE ... BUT NEITHER DO U ...
Hue’s becoming the Donald Trump of the Cleveland Browns ... EVERYTHINGS HIS FAULT!!!!
I'm not bashing Hue at all. In fact, I have said previously that I like him as a Head Coach; his play calling (as I pointed out) perhaps not so much. There is way too much testosterone on here lately...
This is very hard on all of us .. and i’m Really getting sick of all the finger pointing at anyone but Haslam ...
Guys are whining the FO blew the last two drafts all ready ... WE HAVE NO CLUE YET ... crap .. i know we didn’t make all the picks we had coming last year .... we may not have even made all the picks from their first draft if we have any picks left from the 2 first rounds of thier first draft ...
There just frustrated .. i know ... but its hard ... maybe i need a break from the board ...
Same with Hue ... hes made mistakes ... but sheesh ...
Let me end this apology/rant now ...
Sorry bro ... HOPEFULLY it don’t happen again ... *LOL* ...
Kizer needs to start and play every offensive play the rest of the season its the only way we will know if he has any value as a starter in this league, we need to know this before we pick in 2018 ... JMHO
Kizer needs to start and play every offensive play the rest of the season its the only way we will know if he has any value as a starter in this league, we need to know this before we pick in 2018 ... JMHO
At this stage, I think this is the route to go. Our QB situation has been beyond screwy and everyone is likely confused.
Just play Kizer, he can sink or swim. Hopefully he makes an idiot out of me and shows being benched for a week actually makes a difference.
Kizer needs to start and play every offensive play the rest of the season its the only way we will know if he has any value as a starter in this league, we need to know this before we pick in 2018 ... JMHO
At this stage, I think this is the route to go. Our QB situation has been beyond screwy and everyone is likely confused.
Just play Kizer, he can sink or swim. Hopefully he makes an idiot out of me and shows being benched for a week actually makes a difference.
I agree - but only because our QB situation is so pathetic.
Starting and inept rookie who is struggling (not saying that will be the result - but it might well be) and having the rest of the team struggle as a result and lose games we'd win with an 'average' QB ... is a huge detriment to everyone else on the team in terms of their development and moral and the perpetual culture of losing. If we had a QB that gave us a better chance to win games - I'd be all about starting that QB over Kizer. jmho - but while we need to know what we have in Kizer before the next draft - I don't think it should be att he expense of everything else. I'd rather just draft a QB with the first pick regardless of what you think you have in Kizer and win more games this year ...... sadly that's not really an option because of our QB situation.
I keep reading we have to play him so we know what we need to next year in the draft ...
So i got a question ...
If he plays like Jared Goff did last year as a rookie would that tell u we should draft a qb at the top in this draft? ...
If he plays like RG3 or Kap did in their rookie years does that mean we don’t need to draft a qb at the top of the draft? ...
Serious question to all those that say we need to play him so we know what to do next year ...
After u answer the questions ... come on back ... we’ll chat from there about how much were actually going to learn no matter what Kizer does the rest of the year ..
I don't know whether or not that can even be answered. If there is no improvement by season's end, then I expect you have no choice but to acquire the QB of your choosing. If he suddenly plays lights-out or at least shows significant improvement, then you are in a quandary as to who Kizer really is. Not easy...
I don't think him playing till year end resolves anything. We could have set him back and he's Montana in the making or he could have a few nice games (hello Derek!) and we are no wiser.
We draft or acquire a QB next offseason is my strong feeling.
If Kizer beats that guy out, then we know. If he doesn't we know.
You can't sit on this position till its fixed. Even then...
However DK plays for the rest of the season I think we should draft a QB. If DK doesn't play well then it is a no brainer to draft a QB high next year. If he plays well we could still draft the best QB available when we pick. If they both play well we can keep who we want and trade the other and get some picks back. If one of the QB's coming out looks like a franchise QB we shouldn't pass on him. JMO
Your point is 100% valid. And there is a host of QB's that I didn't get to see play that "stunk" based on their first year records - I'd have to check but I think Aikman, Peyton and Bradshaw all have very bad losing rookie years? And I'd place a large wager that each of their teams was much better than the current Browns.
RG3 and Kap are examples of the opposite.
With that said I think I can understand people's sentiments even if there are examples of people sitting and learning, playing great and busting or playing like busts and then 'getting it' .... With players like Wentz and Dak and Watson all 'bursting' onto the scene and looking legit - easy to want the same regardless of what the odds are when that QB is playing with WR talent that the Browns has.
DeShone Kizer calls players-only offensive meeting Posted by Charean Williams on October 20, 2017, 6:49 PM EDT
Getty Images In an attempt to display his leadership skills, Browns quarterback DeShone Kizer called a players-only offensive meeting Friday.
“As I said earlier this week, it’s about doing more, and that’s just a small thing that we can add into the week,” Kizer told Mary Kay Cabot of cleveland.com. “It’s something that I think can allow us to just open up the communication line and make sure they understand what I’m thinking and make sure I understand what they’re thinking.”
Kizer returns from a one-game benching to start against the Titans. He and the Browns have insisted sitting and watching Kevin Hogan was invaluable for the rookie. He showed that Friday.
“After sitting last week, it was something I thought we’d benefit from,” Kizer said of the meeting. “Yesterday there was a couple of things I wasn’t able to meet with them about individually, so if I figure if I can bring them all together and have them all listen to it at the same time, it would be alright.”
Kizer said several players usually speak during the weekly captains’ meeting, but he was the only one to talk during the special offensive meeting he called.
“It’s not easy especially in our position where we are right now,” fellow rookie David Njoku. “It’s shows his courage and his maturity. To come into an NFL locker room and call a meeting, it’s big-time, and I’m excited. He’s ready to turn this around and I’m 100 percent fully behind him.”
DeShone Kizer called a players-only offensive meeting Friday and addressed the unit
Updated on October 20, 2017 at 6:25 PM Posted on October 20, 2017 at 5:57 PM
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
BEREA, Ohio -- In his first game back from his one-week benching, Browns quarterback DeShone Kizer stepped up Friday and called a players-only offensive meeting in preparation for Sunday's game against the Titans.
"As I said earlier this week, it's about doing more, and that's just a small thing that we can add into the week,'' Kizer told cleveland.com. "It's something that I think can allow us to just open up the communication line and make sure they understand what I'm thinking and make sure I understand what they're thinking.''
Kizer said with the 0-6 Browns losing three of their games by only three points, any little thing might help.
"Maybe that's the separator in a game where we were able to discuss something on Friday that we hadn't discussed all week that can allow them to get one extra step on a defender that we can be able to complete some passes,'' he said.
Kizer came up with the idea this week when thinking of ways he could step up as a leader of the team.
"After sitting last week, it was something I thought we'd benefit from,'' he said. "Yesterday there was a couple of things I wasn't able to meet with them about individually, so if I figure if I can bring them all together and have them all listen to it at the same time, it would be all right.''
Kizer determined that his teammates should hear some things from him instead of just the coaches.
"It's just making sure that we can discuss the necessary things that go into completing passes, things we talk about every week, just making sure it's coming from me,'' he said. "It's a new perspective for some of these guys who are obviously new to this program and this organization. Maybe it sits a little better coming from me so we have a little more confidence going into Sunday.''
Related: Kizer returns from benching that 'sparked my competitive juices'
Kizer said it's customary for several players to speak on Friday during a captain's meeting, but during the special offensive meeting that he called, "I was the only guy.''
Teammates such as fellow rookie David Njoku said they were happy that Kizer took the initiative.
"It's not easy especially in our position where we are right now,'' the tight end said. "It's shows his courage and his maturity. To come into an NFL locker room and call a meeting, it's big-time and I'm excited. He's ready to turn this around and I'm 100 percent fully behind him.''
Njoku said Kizer handled the benching extremely well, and it inspired him to take on more of a leadership role.
"He watched and learned from a different point and I think it made him better,'' said Njoku. "A bunch of people would give up and say 'OK, let's work for next year.' But he's focused on the right now and that's what matters for us, and we really appreciate that.''
He said Kizer talked for about 10-15 minutes and it made an impact on his teammates.
"Kizer is a beast,'' Njoku said. "I tell everybody that because I truly believe that and he shows it. He's maturing every day, and obviously being a rookie, quarterback is probably one of the hardest things you can do. He's taking big, big steps and I'm really excited to see how he progresses.''
Njoku said the offense emerged from the meeting "closer as an offense, as a group. I think we're all on the same page a little more, so I think it will be a fun game for us.''
Fullback Dan Vitale also said Kizer showed a lot by putting himself out there.
"After he spent a week where he watched from the sidelines and now that he's back in, it gave him a chance to kind of look back and kind of reflect on mistakes he's made or mistakes we've made as an entire offense,'' said Vitale. "He talked about how we're going to go about fixing that and what we can do for him to help him, and how he's going to try and help us.''
A second-year pro, Vitale said it spoke to Kizer's quick development this season.
"I just saw a lot of growth in him just as a professional from that aspect, which is obviously very good to see and very exciting to see from a kid who's so young,'' said Vitale.
Like Njoku, Vitale said Kizer sent a strong message to the team by the way he handled his benching.
"He took it as an opportunity to learn to make some changes and not just sit there and pout,'' said Vitale.
Vitale said the speech made him want to dig even a little deep on Sunday against the Titans to support Kizer and end the winless streak.
"Obviously we haven't had the success we've wanted here, but this is that point now where it's now or never," he said. "When you've got a kid who's as young as him who wants to succeed as bad as he does, it's exciting for all of us and gets us all going.''
We've had so many QBs who are great off the field (McCoy, Delhomme, McCown, Kessler, Jason Campbell, and more), but we've never had a QB that also has the talent. So dumb.
I agree with the overall theme of your post - We're not really going to know what we've got with Kizer even if he does end up playing 14 1/2 games on the season.
With that said, 14 1/2 games is something. Anyone. If we're going to seriously consider drafting a quarterback wherever we end up drafting, likely top 3, then we need to have some form of clue regarding an NFL level evaluation of Kizer.
In some sense, we already know a lot. The game is too fast for him, we need to see if it can begin to slow down a little; that'll at least give us some indication if this is just an overwhelmed rookie, much as Goff was, or if we're looking at a Weeden-esque player whom the game is simply too fast for.
This is especially true when the quarterback situation in the 2018 draft is very questionable. It's not that they're bad, it's just that they're not clear-cut slam dunks.
My hope for Kizer hit overdrive when B/R's Matt Miller claimed the Browns have the worst front office in football who should be fired, put his hand up for the job, and then did a podcast stating he would trade down and take Baker Mayfield to build around because he rates Darnold/Rosen/Allen as lower than the top quarterbacks from the 2015/2017 drafts. While Miller isn't perfect, he's also not alone.
Worse, still, Darnold is clearly the top QB and there is a lot of talk that he's not going to declare for the 2018 draft, as originally reported by Daniel Jeremiah citing, "several sources close to Darnold."
What I mean by it being especially true that Kizer should gain experience now is for two specific quarterback issues that aren't even related to Kizer.
If we do select one of the 2018 quarterbacks, as much as we'll love him, I'd bet Kizer kicks the $#!t out of him in camp. Kizer played well this preseason, but he ultimately won due to a lack of options rather than his own NFL-readiness. Kizer will be much better competition to any of the top 2018 rookies, even Darnold, so he'll likely get the nod.
Secondly, there is always the chance that the worst happens and we're just not prepared to take a rookie QB early in 2018. If Darnold doesn't declare, it won't shock me if the Browns don't fall in love with Rosen or Allen. I quite like Allen, am not huge on Rosen, and really like Darnold, but I wouldn't be sprinting to the podium with reckless abandon for any of them.
With that said, I'll also say that there is no Myles Garrett to muddy the waters in 2018. Saquon Barkley is amazing but my philosophy is to avoid running backs in the first round. There are some impressive corners and safeties like Derwin James and Minkah Fitzpatrick but nobody as incredible, as Garrett was, to make rolling the dice on a QB an impossible sacrifice.
TL;DR (Apologies for the long posts)
1. One season isn't enough to evaluate Kizer, but something is better than nothing of giving us an indication of his shortcomings and if they can be overcame. That might be why Hue has thrown Kizer in to the fire rather than giving him a gimmick offense like Trubisky/Kaep/RG3 that makes the numbers look a lot better than they would otherwise be.
2. Even if we draft a QB in 2018, he might not start immediately if Kizer has shown progress and the rookie isn't ready. Unlike with Kizer, that would put us in a situation where we could afford patience to correctly develop a young QB.
3. The reality that we might not at all draft a QB high in 2018. Certainly seems likely, but might not be so.
Kizer is a wanna be. Very articulate and smart but just all smooth talk. I wish I was wrong. We need to draft the best QB possible in 2018. We have to go big and get our man. No jacking around. We need real football guys to determine if Hue is worth wasting time on. Go Browns!!
Cleveland Browns absolutely nowhere at quarterback -- Terry Pluto
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- After all the years and all the Cleveland Browns quarterbacks since 1999...
After this game, a 12-9 overtime loss to Tennessee...
After Cody Kessler came into the game early in the third quarter...
I know, I have yet to finish a sentence.
That's because I don't know what to say.
I'll start with this: When it comes to their quarterback situation, the Browns are nowhere.
Absolutely, positively nowhere.
They have no real starter.
They have no clear direction from the coaching staff on who should start.
The Browns are 0-7 this season, and only four times has a Browns quarterback gone the distance in a game.
Seven games into the season and three quarterbacks have played for the orange helmets.
Seven games into the season and none of the three quarterbacks has a single victory in their NFL careers.
Sigh.
NO REAL PLAN
I'd like to rip Hue Jackson for jerking DeShone Kizer out of the game, but I can't.
That's because I didn't think Kizer was ready to open the season as the Browns quarterback.
Jackson quickly gave up on Brock Osweiler (my choice). He was enamored with Kizer's obvious physical gifts ... strong arm on a sturdy 6-foot-4, 233-pound frame.
He's not ready.
I also believe Jackson has no clue of what he wants to do about his quarterbacks. He just wants to win a game. His record of 1-22 as coach of the Browns is weighing on him.
Like so many Browns coaches before him, Jackson can't believe it's so hard to win an NFL game ... any game ... any where.
So that has led to him changing quarterbacks ... over and over.
Last week, Kevin Hogan started what became a 33-17 loss in Houston. He threw three interceptions.
This week, Kizer returned to the starting lineup.
Kizer threw an interception on the Browns final possession of the first half.
Kizer threw an interception on the Browns first possession of the second half.
"You can't keep turning the ball over in the National Football League," said Jackson.
Kizer's confidence has to be feel bruised and blue right now.
"I can't worry about confidence," said Jackson. "If you keep turning the ball over, you can't play."
HERE COMES CODY
When the Browns stopped Tennessee on the Cleveland 1-yard line early in the third quarter, the Browns took over.
Cody Kessler came into the game ... for the first time this season.
I was almost screaming, "WHAT???"
Jackson has now benched Kizer twice for the second half. He also has benched Kizer for a full game in Houston.
On this sunny Sunday, Kizer was 12-of-20 passing for 114 yards. His longest completion was 19 yards.
With those two interceptions, he now has 11 this season. No one else in the NFL as more eight.
Which brings us to Kessler, who had a few nice moments. From the Cleveland 1-yard line, he led the Browns on a 10-play, 70-yard drive. That led to a 47-yard Zane Gonzalez field goal.
The Gregg Williams defense was excellent. It held Tennessee to four field goals. The Titans had only 80 yards rushing on 25 carries.
If the Browns could have scored only lousy touchdown, they could have won.
But they didn't.
Kessler was 10-of-19 passing for 121 yards and an interception.
In the Browns two possessions during the overtime, Kessler went three-and-out.
So what do the Browns do next?
Jackson said Kessler had some flow to the offense, but he made no commitment about next week.
The Browns quarterback play has been even more than awful. It's been destructive because of 17 interceptions this season.
They had only 14 interceptions in 2016.
So what's next at quarterback?
Who knows. And that's one of the saddest aspects of this season.
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Deshone Kizer's late Friday night out partying rankled coach Hue Jackson following Sunday's 12-9 loss to the Titans.
Kizer was replaced by Cody Kessler in the third quarter after throwing back-to-back interceptions for a total of 11 this season.
WOIO Channel 19 obtained video of Kizer partying with teammates at a downtown Cleveland establishment at 1:30 Saturday morning. The Browns practice on Saturday in preparation for Sunday's game.
At first Jackson thought there must be some mistake.
"It means a lot to me,'' Jackson said of him being out that late. "A guy's personal time is his personal time, but I still think that's not what our guys do. I think our guys work at what they do, and I'd be surprised if that happened. I have never heard of that. I don't think DeShone has that kind of character or personality that way. That's what it is."
Informed that Channel 19 has the video, Jackson said, "It is not a curfew, but you are right. You said it. That is the first I have heard of it. I appreciate you guys sharing that with me. Thank you."
Jackson is in the process of deciding who will start at quarterback Sunday in London against the Vikings, and said "everything is on the table.''
Asked about the video, Kizer said, "I am not here to talk about my personal life right now."
Pressed on if the late-night partying shows a lack of commitment, Kizer said, "Absolutely not. I was out. I was at the facility the next day, preparing for the game and the game right before that. Once again, I am not here to talk about my personal life."
Receiver Ricardo Louis also didn't think it was wise for Kizer to be out that late with the Browns trying to win their first game and Kizer just being reinstated as the starting quarterback.
"I don't think I'd be doing that,'' Louis said. "When you're a young guy in this league, you have to (learn now to prepare). He's learning right now. Preparation for success is such a fine line.''
Louis noted, however, that Kizer prepared all well week for the Titans.
Related: Kizer called a players-only offensive meeting Friday afternoon
Kizer's night out -- with teammates -- came hours after he showed maturity by calling a players-only offensive meeting to get the unit on the same page heading into the Titans game.
Kizer told cleveland.com on Friday afternoon that with the Browns losing three of their six games by only three points, any little thing might help the then 0-6 team.
"Maybe that's the separator in a game where we were able to discuss something on Friday that we hadn't discussed all week that can allow them to get one extra step on a defender that we can be able to complete some passes,'' he said.
Kizer said he came up with the idea after being reinstated from his one-week benching. He had also been yanked the week before at halftime of the Jets game.
"After sitting last week, it was something I thought we'd benefit from,'' he said. "Yesterday there was a couple of things I wasn't able to meet with them about individually, so if I figure if I can bring them all together and have them all listen to it at the same time, it would be alright.''
Teammates such as fellow rookie David Njoku were happy that Kizer took the initiative.
"It's not easy especially in our position where we are right now,'' said Njoku. "It's shows his courage and his maturity. To come into an NFL locker room and call a meeting, it's big-time and I'm excited. He's ready to turn this around and I'm 100% fully behind him.''
Kizer's bar night, captured by many on social media, came a week after Kenny Britt and Corey Coleman were sent home early from the 33-17 loss to the Texans Houston game and fined for missing curfew the night before.
Britt was back in the starting lineup against the Titans.
"We have dealt with it,'' said Jackson. "It was an in-house deal. I dealt with it. Moved on, moved forward and we will keep it that way. We will keep it in house."
The Browns are also sensitive about their rookie quarterbacks being captured on social media partying close to the game because of everything they went through with Johnny Manziel, the No. 22 overall pick in 2014.
Follow Jack McCurry @JMcCurryCLE A video just shown on Tailgate 19 from Friday night/Saturday morning around 1:30 am of #Browns QB DeShone Kizer partying at a Cleveland bar 8:04 AM - Oct 22, 2017 17 17 Replies 22 22 Retweets 16 16 likes
They have no clear direction from the coaching staff on who should start.
Mr. Pluto, who is to blame for that? The coaching staff or the FO?
I see you question and get on Hue and the coaching staff in this article, but nothing about the FO and their decisions on qbs.
You predicted 7 wins for the Browns. Why?
We don't have a qb. We don't have good WRs. Our TEs are inexperienced. We cut or traded our depth on the OL. We let our only decent WR walk. We cut our best corner. We didn't address the FS position and brought in yet another SS.
Sounds like we have no clue what to do there. Kessler comes in the third is all I need to read from that article. Kizer must've been horrible again, and I don't see how Hue could start him again if that's the case and benched, again, and etc.
I will say reading this is a lot better when I haven't see the game lol.
Vers, I agree with everything you just said. If SOMEONE in Cleveland media had the guts to address that directly to the FO, I would pass out. Also, look how the screwed up the QB search with the QBs they did not pursue. And no WRs after drafting 20 mid-low round the year before, just mind-boggling.
Then next year, we will hear about all the cap space Cleveland has.
I've been disappointed in Hue, but he's been dealt a crappy hand. You simply can't win in the NFL without a QB. The Browns do not have a QB. Your only hope is that you can out coach the other team, and that's not Hue's thing. He's not going to out coach anyone. He's made that clear by readily admitting to giving his players graduate level work as freshman and sophomores. So I think what the organization is banking on is that Hue will be the coach they hope he can be when he gets the talent.
But having no QB essentially means you enter every game with a less than 10% chance of winning.
Like the one the Steelers made at the end of the half. They run the ball w/about 12 seconds left at the end of the half. They get tackled and instead of calling a TO at either 7 or 8 seconds so they can run another play, they let it run down and are forced to kick the FG. The announcers were amazed by how "goofy" it was and Ben gave Tomlin an earful.
The funny thing is that the Steelers are now up on the Bengals 26 to 14 in the 4th quarter.
All coaches do "goofy things." But not all coaches face the talent and lack of experience thing that Hue faces.
Hue wants to win a game because he knows that a coach who is sitting at 1-23 at the bye of his 2nd season gets fired.
I don't think Hue Jackson should be fired, but it's hard to talk yourself into keeping a coach with that record.
The wheels are coming off. That's two weeks in a row that players have disrespected Hue and the Browns organization and have put themselves above the team.
Hue is desperate for a win and playing musical QBs for the second year in a row. Based on the decision making, the pressure to win is clearly weighing on him.
The thought of this FO drafting next year and trying to find us our QB leaves me hopeless.
Other than consistency as "letting the plan play out" there are little redeeming tangible qualities in which to hang our hats with this regime.
Sadly, I'll be shocked if Haslam doesn't light the dynamite.
Nobody can survive a 1-31 or 2-32 record.
I see this spiraling out of control before too long. Good grief.
I think most knew it was going to be bad, maybe even close to this bad. Lots of 3-13 type predictions. The problem is even 3-13 seems like a stretch now. The NFL is a very simple formula. In order to win, in order to even have a chance to win, you have to have a QB.
So many FOs have passed through here and have failed to deliver on that.
I really liked Hue's presser today, at least the parts I could watch (for some reason it wouldn't buffer completely). I think he's getting close to that "I don't care if they fire me" point. He was peeved but not overly emotional. Matter of fact. Got a little defensive when asked about Kizer's confidence, but there didn't seem to be a lot of coach speak. He knows things are bad and that the Browns basically have no hope to win games. He's taking on the "it is what it is" mentality right now. Which is really all he's got left. I commend him for not sugar coating it anymore.
Our division has historically laid out a blueprint for success: 1 - Pick your HC and stick with him through thick and thin 2 - Build your roster through the draft 3 - Find a QB who can make all the throws and is durable
I'm sure I can add more, but our FO has done these things.
Of course #3 is up in the air right now, but they did bring a guy in who at least looks the part. :shrug:
You can make that argument, but I think it is unreasonable.
I don't care who the coach is, the record would suck!!! The FO and owner signed up for this dumb ass plan and firing coaches isn't going to change things.
Look, I don't want anyone in the FO fired, but you guys drive me nuts w/this stupid ass talk about firing the coach for a problem that is not his.
You can make that argument, but I think it is unreasonable.
I don't care who the coach is, the record would suck!!! The FO and owner signed up for this dumb ass plan and firing coaches isn't going to change things.
Look, I don't want anyone in the FO fired, but you guys drive me nuts w/this stupid ass talk about firing the coach for a problem that is not his.
Whatever............this organization sucks.
So if it is a dumb ass plan, why stick with it? That seems pretty goofy. No??
I know you think I want to see Hue fired. I don't. I just know that change always starts with the head coach. When was the last time you saw a FO fired at the bye? Not saying it hasn't happened, but it is usually a coaching change.
So if it is a dumb ass plan, why stick with it? That seems pretty goofy. No??
peen, you are a pretty smart guy.............and I am sure you remember me saying the following two things:
--losing a ton of games leads to the blame game and guys getting fired.
and
--once we adopted the plan, the best course of action is to stick w/it.
Most of you loved the plan. I got ridiculed over and over and over again for saying that it wasn't the best of plans because losing so many games in the first couple of years of a regime change is tough on everyone. The fans, the media feeds on it, the coaches, the FO, the players, the owner, etc. It's hard to overcome, peen. That is why I say it's dumb.
However, we chose that plan knowing that we were going to lose a huge number of games these first 2-3 years. Now.......think about this...........we have a very young roster w/some talent. We have a ton of picks. We all talked about patience, as did Haslam. Stay the course.
If they fire guys, the plan will indeed be proven to be dumb. If they stay the course, the plan will most likely work.
The biggest risk of the plan is whether or not they have the fortitude to stick w/the plan or if they listen to all the noise and start blowing things up again.
3 - Find a QB who can make all the throws and is durable
I'm sure I can add more, but our FO has done these things.
This is the same FO that passed on Wentz and the rookie QB tied for the NFL in TD passes (who's not even top 25 in pass attempts for that matter).
This FO has failed miserably on the most important aspect of their job...finding a quarterback!!
The thing is....Hue was brought here to help solve the QB problem.
I think it's pretty clear that neither the front office nor Hue Jackson wanted Carson Wentz. We have pretty strong evidence to suggest that. I think there was a QB in this last draft that Hue Jackson wanted (probably Patrick Mahomes) that we missed on getting. Deshone Kizer was a lottery ticket.
I haven't been following this thread for a little while so forgive me if this was already posted.
DeShone Kizer’s late night out doesn’t sit well with Browns Posted by Charean Williams on October 22, 2017, 6:33 PM EDT
AP Cleveland’s WOIO Channel 19 obtained video of Browns quarterback DeShone Kizer partying early Saturday morning. Coach Hue Jackson was taken aback when told about it in postgame interviews.
“A guy’s personal time is his personal time, but I still think that’s not what our guys do,” Jackson said, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “I think our guys work at what they do, and I would be surprised if that happened. I have never heard of that. I don’t think DeShone has that kind of character or personality that way. That is what it is.”
Kizer was shown with teammates at a downtown Cleveland establishment at 1:30 a.m. Saturday. The Browns had practice Saturday in preparation for Sunday’s game.
“It is not a curfew, but you are right,” Jackson said. “You said it. That is the first I have heard of it. I appreciate you guys sharing that with me. Thank you.”
Kizer’s late night out came hours after he called a players-only offensive meeting Friday. Although Kizer didn’t miss any team activities, his Friday night partying still didn’t sit well with the winless Browns.
“I don’t think I’d be doing that,” wide receiver Ricardo Louis said. “When you’re a young guy in this league, you have to [learn now to prepare]. He’s learning right now. Preparation for success is such a fine line.”
Kizer was pulled in the second half of the team’s 12-9 overtime loss to the Browns after throwing back-to-back interceptions. He returned from a one-game benching to complete 12 of 20 passes for 114 yards and two picks.
The rookie told reporters in postgame interviews that he wasn’t “here to talk about my personal life right now” when asked about the video. He vehemently denied, however, that his partying shows a lack of commitment.
“Absolutely not,” Kizer said. “I was out. I was at the facility the next day, preparing for the game and the game right before that. Once again, I am not here to talk about my personal life.”
I didn't see this in whatever thread you saw it in. But I agree that this is somewhat of a big deal. I didn't expect this out of Kizer and I am very disappointed.
He's not making boots at a factory. He's a 21 year old NFL QB, which takes a lot of sacrifice, especially when you consider the circumstances. We just went through JFF hell... Btw Johnny is available... and our QB situation is wobbly...
Dude is getting paid huge money. He called a team meeting and talked about being a leader. He was coming off of a benching. He leads the league in picks despite not playing as many quarters as others. He is a freaking rookie who is extremely young.
I'd say that if I were in that position, there would be no way in hell I would be clubbing so close to a game. I'd be doing my best to prepare for the Titans and relishing the chance to redeem myself.
Did Kessler not staying out late help us win games?
Did hogan not staying out late help him win his first start?
Did the O line not staying out help them block better?
The team is trash. I didn’t want us to draft this bum in the first place, but honestly a 21 year old staying out late on a Friday night doesn’t mean much. He didn’t get arrested, he didn’t break curfew, he didn’t get a DUI. He didn’t hit his girlfriend.
The holier than thou crap is annoying. Y’all free to express whatever but so am I. He was throwing picks BEFORE he decided to go out with the crew. He didn’t stay out late before and he was still throwing picks.
And y’all bringing up manziel but at least his drunk ass won us a game. Glad y’all happy with the choir boys we got while we won one game the last 2 seasons.
You don't know that he wasn't going out late earlier in the year. He just didn't get caught.
Look, it's not a huge deal. I just think that I would not have done the same thing if I were in his position. It's not a damning statement. It's just my opinion.
I’ll try again ... your really really good at avoiding questions ... u REFUSE TO ANSWER them when their to tough .. and by tough ... i mean YOU WON’T LIKE THE ANSWER ...
And y’all bringing up manziel but at least his drunk ass won us a game. Glad y’all happy with the choir boys we got while we won one game the last 2 seasons.
Thats your type of peeps swish? ... he PARTIED HIMSELF OUT OF THE NFL ...
No one in the PP forum tonight so u have to come over and be ... well .. who u are ...
I want to state straightaway that I don't think Hue Jackson should be fired (at this point, things may change).
What has Hue Jackson done to prove that he should be the head coach to develop the next QB? One may argue that Kizer was forced upon and while that may be true (we'll never know for sure either way), he is the QB he has. Kizer has not improved at all since the preseason. He is doing the same things now that he was doing in the preseason. Also, jerking Kizer in and out of games when he is supposed to be learning on the field seems to be counterintuitive.
Sorry this is an incomplete thought, I am just trying to talk through things without thinking them all the way through.
Maybe it’s because Hue knows this kid can’t improve, at the very least, not until next season.
And yea based in some of the recent articles out, it might be somewhat safe to assume he didn’t even want Kizer in the first place.
I sincerely believe Hue hasn’t been allowed to pick his QB in the draft. And we got non football guys picking qb’s.
Hue Jackson wanted Jared Goff, but the Rams jumped us and got him. It's hard to pin that on anyone. He also wanted RGIII badly because "he felt the ground move beneath his feet" during his workout. There was the whole "trust me" comment about Cody Kessler which was weird and I still don't fully understand it. DeShaun Watson says that Hue Jackson wanted him, Hue Jackson disagrees with him. I think Jackson wanted Patrick Mahomes and that we were going to take him, but the Chiefs traded up for him. I think Kizer was basically a lottery ticket that Jackson got stuck with because all the other QBs were so bad and Kizer at least had potential (he has not developed at all).
It is correct that the people running the front office, particularly Sashi Brown and Paul DePodesta, are not football guys. But Hue Jackson should also be held responsible for giving the thumbs up on RGIII and not developing Kizer at all.
I don't think I want Sashi Brown and Paul DePodesta selecting a QB first overall in 2018 because I don't trust them to do it on their own. I also don't know if I trust Hue Jackson to develop a young QB. I also know that we can't keep firing people every two years. It's truly a mess.
This Kizer situation has reached ridiculous proportions. It's almost impossible to be benched, for productivity reasons and not injury, to a quarterback who was basically considered third-string at best, in Hogan, and then immediately again for a quarterback who had been inactive every week despite being a part of the weakest quarterback roster in the NFL (Kessler). It doesn't happen in the big leagues, folks. Not when you have passed on Goff (coulda traded up) and Wentz and Prescott (they took Kessler over him) and then you pass on Watson to trade down with the Texans (who selected him in that spot) to end up with Kizer in the second round.
Yanking him again, albeit after two ugly picks, in a game you would lose at home, 12-9, in overtime, is insane. I don't care that Kessler wasn't as bad – you just benched Kessler for six straight weeks behind these other two bad quarterbacks. It makes zero sense from player development and basically puts the next Browns regime – yeah, there ain't no way coaches/front office are surviving this - on the clock to select a quarterback with a top five pick in April. Whatever was left of Kizer feeling anyone there had his back is over, and the reality is he threw a ton of picks and made a lot of poor decisions at Notre Dame.
That's what they drafted, yet the winless team wasn't willing to let him try to learn by playing anymore. Even had the Browns won that game, given the way it went down, it's still a loss long-term. This may be a new low for them, which is truly saying something. Nobody does misery like them.
Because somebody goes out at night means they are or aren’t mature?
You not asking anything tough. All you’re doing is attempting to enforce your particular morality to this situation.
Its a real shame all U do is look do is look for fights .... thats it ... yout not interested in convo ...
4 or 5 posters have defended U to me in the past .... say your a good guy ... and i believe them and can see it ..,, hence why I think your angry .....
AND THIS RIGHT HERE PROVES IT .... even sadder is the fact I all ready know the BS you’ll come back ...
Here’s my one and only post about that, the one U originally replied too ...
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
We keep hearing about his maturity ... thats not very mature ... *L* ...
Lets hope its a one time thing and it never happens again ...
When it rains it pours ... its been raining on us for awhile now ... were all water logged by now ... *L*
Wow .... thats pretty harsh ... definetly me showing my kind of morality ... WOW ... that was BRUTAL ... thanks for pointing it out ...
for someone to take that and spin in it to what u have .... SOMETHINGS WRONG ... and it ain’t with me ...
Hopefully u get whatever’s bothering u taken care of ...
Benching Kizer left a bad taste in my mouth. I thought it was Kizer's most complete game yet. It's so strange to say regarding a player who had two costly interceptions, but outside of those two throws, he played quiet well on every other attempt. Normally a two interception game denotes someone who looked awful; not someone who looked awful on two throws.
I'm also not overly mad at the second interception. That was an amazing play from the DB. He played the under on a perfectly executed bait and switch. The first interception annoyed me, however. Perhaps not annoyed. To use the parental cliché: I'm not mad, I'm disappointed. He made a great read, he had a game-changing play there for the taking, wide open, and he threw a duck on a pass that wasn't complicated. He just didn't step in to it.
My frustration, however, is that Kessler wasn't any better. He struggled to move the chains just as much as Kizer did. Kizer keeps being benched for quarterbacks who aren't winning the game. We aren't making game breaking plays that Kizer can't make. Who aren't protecting the football. Who aren't delivering desired results.
I look at Trubisky in Chicago. Their gimmick offense is already showing down - so he completed FOUR of SEVEN passes. They won off the back of a monstrous defensive performance and a solid running game. They're prepared to stick with him when he is so bad that they'll only let him throw SEVEN passes, protecting him while he gains experience, but Hue Jackson can't seem to go more than two quarters without benching Deshone Kizer for whoever he decides will be this week's not-hero.
It is disturbing to watch a head coach quit on a rookie quarterback for playing no worse than those whom replace him.
This Kizer situation has reached ridiculous proportions. It's almost impossible to be benched, for productivity reasons and not injury, to a quarterback who was basically considered third-string at best, in Hogan, and then immediately again for a quarterback who had been inactive every week despite being a part of the weakest quarterback roster in the NFL (Kessler). It doesn't happen in the big leagues, folks. Not when you have passed on Goff (coulda traded up) and Wentz and Prescott (they took Kessler over him) and then you pass on Watson to trade down with the Texans (who selected him in that spot) to end up with Kizer in the second round.
Yanking him again, albeit after two ugly picks, in a game you would lose at home, 12-9, in overtime, is insane. I don't care that Kessler wasn't as bad – you just benched Kessler for six straight weeks behind these other two bad quarterbacks. It makes zero sense from player development and basically puts the next Browns regime – yeah, there ain't no way coaches/front office are surviving this - on the clock to select a quarterback with a top five pick in April. Whatever was left of Kizer feeling anyone there had his back is over, and the reality is he threw a ton of picks and made a lot of poor decisions at Notre Dame.
That's what they drafted, yet the winless team wasn't willing to let him try to learn by playing anymore. Even had the Browns won that game, given the way it went down, it's still a loss long-term. This may be a new low for them, which is truly saying something. Nobody does misery like them.
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