DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mr. Kizer

with out Hogan we would have be 2-2 in the preseason. If I am remembering correctly, he came in and won the last two games for us.

I don't think Hogan was given much consideration at all in preseason. He was always the afterthought. It was always Kessler, or Osweiller, then Kizer. I think Hogan only got into any preseason games, late in the second half, because the coaching staff thought they would give him a chance to catch on somewhere else. After all, they had to get rid of somebody. Then Hogan came in and looked good.

The Dolphins supposedly wanted to trade for Osweiller, but the FO turned them down. Suddenly Hogan looks good in a preseason mop up role, better than the other 3 QBs combined, and they cut Osweiller.

Now our afterthought Quarterback is the starter. Good for him ...

I suppose you may be right. Maybe the plan all along was to play Kizer to see what we have. If he succeeds, great, keep him in there and if he doesn't seem to do well it's back to the drawing board...

Vers, I just think DK needs more time to learn the reads and what the D is doing out there. Will he turn into our long term QB, who knows, but he has the physical ability and seems to be a worker. As far as QB's in college that can learn in the pro's faster, that is how to make reads faster, I'd put my money on a guy from Stanford!!!

Going to have to agree.

The "trust me" QB has went from #1 to not even starting/dressing on gamedays.

The "we like him" qb that was once starting in preseason isn't even on the team anymore.

The "I have faith in" QB was given a job he wasn't prepared for and hasn't improved, resulted in getting benched.

The one QB no one, including fans or the staff, gave a chance to is our best bet for a win and our best QB.

... I mean, you can't make it up. Some serious bad visions and decisions going on here. What the Hell are we doing in this circus here???

Hey Homes! I haven't given upon Kizer either. You are right that he has the physical gifts and seems to be a hard worker.

I worry about the reads. I think that you can certainly improve your pre-snap reads w/a lot of study and intelligence. I also think that post-snap reads of coverage is more of a processing skill and it isn't really related to intelligence. I think it is more of an innate thing.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...15-c5fbba024af1

After watching Hue Jackson's press conference, I think he likes Deshone Kizer a lot more than Deshone being benched suggests. Who knows if it is just 'coach speak' when addressing the media regarding one of his players, but that just has a very authentic feel to it, in my opinion.

Just the little things. The tone of his voice, choice of words, inflections, his general demeanour, etc. It just sounds like he genuinely does think Deshone has a bright future as a Cleveland Brown.

Interesting.

I believe he's giving him a "mental health" break. I also think he's hoping to stabilize the team by starting Hogan. Neither is a bad thing, or an indictment against Kizer.

Answer me this.
How did Kizer pass the analytics test and Wentz didnt with this front office ?

We got a boatload of picks for Wentz (and our head coach wanted Goff) and Kizer was a lottery ticket taken in the middle of the second round.

Bingo

I think a better question is what are the analytics between Hogan and Kizer?

The analytics for the #2 pick are much different than the analytics for the #54 pick ... pretty much DIFFERENT WORLDS ...

My guess is that the numbers (analytics is the use of numbers, not the data itself) loved Kizer's measurables. With that said, we didn't claim Hogan off of waivers and keep him for a whole season because didn't like him.

In reality, there is not a big enough sample to glean anything from either QB numbers wise.

Also, let's not forget that Hogan's game/mechanics were a hot mess last year. He's improved in that area, allowing him to think about executing the offense.

No doubt the sample size is too small in regards to the NFL...but Hogan's college profile is very impressive...and he was a 5 year guy...starter for 3 1/2 years ish. Kizer had a very good year (after a red-shirt year) and an awful year.

I see Hogan's college experience and his actual play this year...and say...why not? Why can he not continue to develop?

He's "better" than Kizer at every single thing/measurable except for arm strength. I don't think being 1" taller and 15 pounds heavier means a lot when the "smaller" guy is 6'3" and 220 pounds with bigger hands.

Not debating you here...just talkin'.

Hue's feeling the heat to win? Desperate for a win?

From Hue's comments in the postgame press conference following loss to the Jets...

And as Jackson weighs the pros and cons on how to best handle Cleveland’s latest quarterbacking conundrum, he again said the losing is taking its toll.

“Hell, my confidence is shaken,” Jackson said when asked if Kizer could be rattled by being pulled Sunday for Hogan. “We haven’t won a game. I am, what, 1-30? I don’t know what it is. My confidence is shaken, too, but I am going to walk in here every day and in this building every day with the mindset to get better and to get this organization and this football team to winning.

Link

From his press conference yesterday.....

On expecting Kizer to start again this year:

“Oh, I sure would hope so. Again, I think people think that I am doing this because I am maybe disappointed in certain things. I knew that this potentially could happen. I think I said that, but also, I think what you guys continue to write on because I said ‘I would ride with him through it’ – and I have – but also, I have to ride this football team. It is not just about one guy. It is about the team. At the end of the day, I have to do what I think is best to give our team the best opportunity to win. That is what this is all about. Nothing more, nothing less.”

On the determining factor in naming QB Kevin Hogan the starter this week:

“I just think it was the best chance to give our offense a chance to stay in rhythm and play consistently over four quarters. See if Kevin can do it. Obviously, he has done that in games. We have moved the ball. We have done some good things there. I just want to see if I can see him do that for a whole game. See where it goes.”

Hue Press Conference 10/11

So are we still not giving hue credit for developing hogan?

Here are Hogan's combine comparisons:

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/kevin-hogan

Doesn't this undermine Hogan? It probably doesn't matter but Jackson should have probably said something like, "We'll see how Kevin Hogan plays and go from there."

Isn't that what he said right here?

In general, Hue is in a tough spot. He's gotta support both QBs, even though he can only start one at a time.

In certain situations (like this one), picking apart what a coach says won't get you very far in terms of figuring out what's going on. The coach really can't say very much without damaging the situation further.

Looking back over the past games this season, I'm glad Hue made the decision to bench Kizer, and do so as gently as possible. The kid needs a break to catch his breath and try to figure stuff out... but he doesn't need to be beat up about it.

It's not cool to defend Hue. Get w/the program. LOL

The FO has provided Hue w/a ton of talent and experience. They are the gods of the NFL and Hue is ruining all the great work they do.

This is why I do not trust this FO to draft number one overall next year.

I think those are two different things. Maybe I am reading into things too much, but if you say you hope Kizer starts again this year, doesn't that mean Kevin Hogan failed?

I took as he hopes Kizer is who he thinks he is. And and some point this year he is hoping Kizer catches up and surpasses Hogan. Then insert Kizer...hence the "hope so" statement.

at least that how I took...

It does. Jackson is basically saying Hogan has no chance to be better than Kizer. He's just keeping the seat warm until Kizer is ready. Hopefully Hogan rubs it in his face.

Meh - I think it's coach speak, we see a lot of it from Hue. Hogan's fate is in his own hands (and the hands of the WR's!) ... if he plays well, gets wins, doesn't turn the ball over ... he will continue to 'keep the seat warm'. I think if he struggles or D's start catching up to him, we might see another change after the bye week. jmo

Hue sure is a curious guy. Looking for stuff to see, we keep tanking games. Kessler was sorry, Kizer plays until bottom of the NFL. And if Kizer develops enough, at some point to be determined, if ever, we have done what? Why draft this marginal a project?

I am tired of crapshoots. And the people judging football "horseflesh" are lousy at this drafting business. Kessler, and then Kizer. Any new flavor of the day will have baggage. I expected growing pains. Kizer is much worse than I thought. Against winnable opponents. Hogan has outplayed him by what he avoids. Practice must be an exercise in Blind Man's Bluff. Hue seems frantic to have this pick pan out; not so sure this will ever get good enough. Go, Browns. Way too much talk and explanation in interviews. Last in NFL.

I think people are looking to criticize Hue. I also think he was trying to say positive things about both players when asked direct questions about each.

It's not that freaking hard to understand.

Interesting and thanks for that. I couldn't find a % for Hogan tho?

J/c ....

Hue answered the question with the intent of saying something positive about Kizer .... the words didn’t come out as well as they could have ....

Hues made mistakes but this ain’t even close to being one of them ...

What skill set is missing or lacking with Hogan? I don't see how we could "know" that at the moment. Other than arm strength - he is better than Kizer at everything else asked of a QB.

It'll be interesting to see how he performs this week.

Fair enough. That wasn't his college rep though IIRC...and the NFL sample is still very small.

FWIW...I think Hogan has a better shot at overcoming accuracy issues than does Kizer.

I think Hue has handled Kizer the way Iwould have. He has the tools, he has the intelligence, you need to see what how he can do under pressure in order to gauge is growth. I also agree that it was time to go with Hogan.

You cant allow a rookie to continue to turn the ball over when u are losing games u should have been winning. Hogan gives the team a chance to win and right now Kizer does not. simple as that.