DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 2007 Heisman Trophy winner Troy Smith quarterback Ohio State University

if rounds 1 and 2 went troy smith and jake long, i'd be happy, that'd be a start...

there are plenty of solid players in these middle rounds

That's something I'm open for discussion for as the draft gets closer. Right now,we're where we are. And from that aspect,I'm going with that.

We've tried to trade up and down before with no luck. So the odds aren't very good. But as the draft approaches so we have some legitimate information and possibilities,we can look at it them.

JMHO

That's odd you say that about OL.
Didn't Savage draft Ogden? Maybe you should take up your arguement with Phil instead of me. He LOVES top rated LT's!

And I doubt your theory hurts Phils credability at all.

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I just posted in the other thread wondering how the feeling would be with LeCharles, Hank and Tuck in place.

Everything is always OSU/Michigan with you huh?

I havent even said anything about drafting Troy or not drafting Troy, yet you want to assume that I dont want to draft him, and you want to assume the reason is because he plays for Ohio State. I dont even think you actually read the posts. All you see is a Michigan fan and an opinion. You are a joke, always have been on here.

Oh well i guess now that you have said that I will stop posting. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

I know nobody likes getting called out especially when it is true, look like the sig question left a mark.

The guy doesn't have all of my respect as a scout, seeing as how he doesn't even know Troy Smith's story. He claimed Smith missed the Texas game because of a misdemeanor assault charge... which wasn't the case at all. As a weakness, I just don't see how he can say Troy has character issues. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" /> At least not now anyways...

The guy even admits it in there, that he would be a top 10 pick if he were just taller. That is the only knock on him, and with that being the only knock, the guy to me is well worth the risk. If he's there in round 2 we have GOT to snack him up.

And what sig would you be talking about smart guy?

Yeah he doesnt have them now anyways but I can See where he's coming from:

Troy Elbowed a Kid in high school during a basketball game knocking the player unconscious and was expelled from St. Edward High School for it.In 2004, Smith and Santonio Holmes broke a females jaw in a fight around 3am. They later pleaded guilty to lesser penalties and were never punished by the school. Smith was suspended for the bowl game Ohio State played that year, as well as the first game of the 2005 season, for taking money from a booster, an NCAA rules violation and also a violation of team rules. He was reinstated to play after the first game of the 2005 season

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Smith

Was Edwards a 5'8'' WR? Cause that's pretty much the parallel argument in this case. Edwards wasn't in the bottom end of the spectrum in measureables at his position. Taking a WR that is 6'3'', 220 LBS in the top 5 is a hell of a lot different then taking a 5'11-6'0'' QB in the top 10. Frankly, I don't see how that isn't blatantly obvious.

In the 2005 draft there wasn't a single offensive lineman taken in the top 10 and I think the first was Jammaal Brown at 13 or 14. There weren't any consensus stud LT's in the 05 draft, we didn't have any trade down parters, so we had to take the BPA.

-JC-

First and formost I am an OSU fan, but now I see why we get so much flack every draft. Seriously, Troy Smith should be far from the top of our draft list. C'mon now I had to hear my fellow fans have our entire draft board last year as Buckeys.

We need Offensive Line in the 1st. If a worthy one isn't available at our pick our back-up option is Deffensive Line. Period. I don't want any other position. We have neglected our trenches, especially on the O-line, for far too long. In fact if our entire draft was on both sides of the trenches, I'd light up one of my Cubans to celebrate.

We don't need the next Payton Manning, or Bret Favre to win a Superbowl. We need and Offensive Line to make holes for a running game and pass block for an average QB that only has to pass 15 times a game. (Note: See Pittsburg last year). Then we need a defensive line that can stop the run and man handle opposing O-lines so our linbackers can blitz and put pressure on the opposing QB's.

Troy Smith is not an option for us in this draft. If it was a different time and we had better pieces in place I would love to have him, but we don't. Our O-line is a joke our D-line is a joke and that's the facts. Fix those problems first and we can worry about who our QB will be.

Preach on Reverand Free!

I'm in your flock!
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I still think we should draft Adrian Peterson and sign 0-line, d-line in the next two rounds. Peterson is going to be awesome IMO. I don't want to look back like we are on LaDainian Tomlinson.

We need O-Line to run the ball and taking a guy that couldn't stay healthy in College in the first round to run behind an O-line that can't block isn't a good option in my opinion. Adrian Peterson could very easily be the next Lee Suggs.

Preach on Free!
I'm with ya there too!

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His injuries are somewhat worrisome but I've read many articles that have actually looked at them as a positive. I don't neccessarily agree (either way) but the article cited some NFL GM's as saying it saved a lot of mileage on his body. The GM's said they would rather he had suffered the injuries he did (and not have had his body run in to the ground) because it will lengthen his NFL career and keep his legs fresh. Again, I don't really have an opinion either way, I just thought it was kind of an interesting take. I'll try to find the article.

I want offensive and defensive lineman but the only player that I would remotely consider (and I do mean remotely) is Peterson given his size (220+ LBS) and speed (4.35). But all in all we've just ignored the trenches for way too long.......

I don't really care WHY you want him, that's of no concern to me. The fact that I don't want him has nothing to do with OSU, it has to do with the fact that he's a QB....

Somebody posed the question a while back "Would OSU be headed toward a national championship with Justin Zwick as the QB?" The obvious answer is.. No. So I ask, would Notre Dame be headed toward the national championship if they had Troy Smith? The equally obvious answer is... No. In fact, if the game could be held, I'd take OSU with Zwick and give even money against Notre Dame with Troy Smith... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And which games are we talking about? I mean I get the whole Michigan thing.. but other than those 2 games, which big games are we talking about?

So you think Troy Smith is the answer to us beating Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Cincy? Because he beat Michigan twice?

I won't do that if you can support it with logic...

You weren't around for the draft forum last year were you? My apologies that you are reaping what others have sewn but there were those who had mock drafts (and they were serious) showing us taking Buckeyes in the first 5 rounds.... there were also those willing to give away the farm to draft AJ Hawk... so while YOU may not be one of them, they are out there, just wait until the draft talk really heats up....

He did beat Michigan 3 times 04, 05 and 06. And other big games I guess would be the Feista Bowl last year against Notre Dame and Texas in Texas when Texas was ranked #2 at the time could also be called a big game. Besides that I see your point.



I can definatly vouch for you there, being and OSU fan there was only one Buckeye I wanted last year, Bobby Carpenter in the Second round but he ended up going in the middle of the first, (a lot higher that I expected him to go). But yeah people boards looked like this around draft time.

1) AJ
2) Carpenter
3) Holmes
4) Youboty
5) Whitner
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Look I say it again, if this was a different time and we had different peices in place I would love to have Troy in Brown and Orange. We have to look at our line, we have

Shaffer, a RT playing LT, poorly
Andruzzi LG, Over the Hill
Fraley C, Has played above average but is not Bentley
Colman RG, Over the Hill
Tucker RT, Mental Problems and Over the Hill.

Right now they need to resign Hank, From all the stuff I have read Bentley will not be back next year, or maybe ever. So resigning Hank shores up a short term problem. Move Shaffer to RG and cut Tucker.

We need to make sure we get a Left Tackle in the draft. One that can play next year. Then we need to find replacements for Andruzzi and Coleman either in the draft or FA, IDK who will be available in FA this year but usually it's hard to get young o-linemen in FA because teams usually won't let them go. Bentley was almost a once in a lifetime and look how that's playing out. We need to shore up 3 positions on the line maybe 4 if Hank won't resign. IMO how can we concentrait on anything but the O-line in the first round.

Savage is suppose to be the draft guru, well this is the biggest draft of his carreer. If the Browns are not compeating for a playoff spot next year there is going to be a huge outcry in the media and fans. And that won't bode well for Savage and RAC. And if they are fired were back to a 5 year plan. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hey, just agreeing with your "5 year plan" sermon in Pure Footbal forum. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It just amazes me Pitt. on how people don't realize that the neglect on the trenches is the reason our team is bad. We have drafted 3 trench guys in the first since 99". All 3 are no longer on this team.

If we dont seriously address this O-line & D-Line problems during this off season, I guarnetee, this time next season, write down the date becuase we will still be talking about the same bull were talking about today, we will still be blaming the same people were blaming today, were still gonna be getting out heads kicked in by the same teams were playing today....If the O-line & D-Line personnel dosent change, nothing else will.....Ya wanna Win...upgrade the Lines on both sides of the ball, not overhaul, just add 4-5 new players total on both sides.... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I didn't realize he played in the '04 Michigan game. The most impressive thing about Troy Smith, to me, if I'm not mistaken, is that in all 3 Michigan games, his full Texas game, his partial Texas game, and the Notre Dame game, with about 200 passing attempts he has 1 INT.

and I don't mean to take anything away from Troy Smith and you can't BLAME him for being on a superior team but I want to know how he would do with the Browns.... so while it's not his fault, you can't exactly ignore a few other facts.....

Notre Dame, OSU had 275 yards rushing to Notre Dames 62....

Michigan in '05 had 32 yards of rushing... and Michigan in '04 OSU had 205 yards rushing to Michigans 71....

Do you realize that since the Purdue game in '04, Troy Smith has NEVER been more than 1 score behind in his college career? And if I'm not mistaken has only been behind in the second half 3 or 4 times?

Again, I'm not taking anything away from Smith because his play is a big reason he has never had to play from behind.... but he's not going to have that luxury in the NFL, not here, not anywhere....

RAC won't be around, and everybody will be screaming for Phil's head on a platter.

And rightfully so. Our line doesn't have to be the best next year because it's going to (hopefully) have some new pieces and some rookies.... but if RAC and Phil can at least show that they ADDRESSED it, that will buy them another year... JMHO.

NFL Selling Smith Short

By Jemele Hill

Link

Serious question: If Michael Vick was the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft, why can't Troy Smith be?

I'm talking strictly in terms of College Vick vs. College Smith. Don't say Vick is superior because of speed. Most human beings concede Vick could probably outrun a Concorde jet. But since when is that a requirement for an NFL quarterback?

Don't say the freak factor. This isn't a PlayStation game.

Don't say passing. Smith makes throws Vick can't make right now. Not to mention, Vick completed barely a little more than half of his passes his final year at Virginia Tech (54 percent) while throwing for 1,234 yards and eight touchdowns. Compare that to Smith's astonishing senior season -- 67 percent completion rate, 30 TDs and a mere five interceptions. Smith transitioned from running quarterback to accurate pocket passer. We're still waiting for Vick to make that transition.

Don't say decision making. Check the touchdown-to-interception ratio again. Smith, who is just now being considered a top-15 pick in the April draft, can read defenses better than past and present Vick.

Don't say body of work. Smith is 10-1 against ranked teams and is the only quarterback in Ohio State history to beat Michigan three consecutive times. Smith has never shrunk in a big game. Brady Quinn has (see: Michigan this year).

Don't say height, either. Depending on who you believe, Smith is either an inch taller or shorter than Vick (who is listed at an even 6 feet).

And for those who have issues with Smith's height, here is some trivia for you: Name the next quarterback selected after Vick in the 2001 draft. Give up? Answer: Drew Brees, who is barely 6 feet tall.

Yes, the same Brees who is having the finest season of any NFL quarterback. The same Brees who dissected the Cowboys on Sunday night. The same Brees who has now successfully piloted two franchises (San Diego and New Orleans).

Coming out of Purdue, Brees had superb numbers but slipped to the second round because he was a shrimp by NFL standards and supposedly not strong enough to take the weekly beatings.

A quick refresher: Atlanta traded with San Diego so the Falcons could move up and take Vick at No. 1. In return, San Diego got LaDainian Tomlinson at No. 5 and Brees with the first pick of the second round.

Think Atlanta wants a do-over?

Think the Miami Dolphins, who elected to sign the taller, more athletic Daunte Culpepper over Brees last offseason -- officially a dumber decision than the Texans' passing on Vince Young and Reggie Bush -- want a do-over?

In 2001, everyone was so gaga over Vick's athleticism that nobody bothered to question whether he could regularly complete half of his passes. In Troy Smith, we have a quarterback who does all the right things, and yet he might as well be Gino Torretta.

NFL scouts will make the same mistake with Smith that they did with Brees. It's absolutely criminal that some people still consider Michigan State's Drew Stanton (never had a single defining win) and LSU's JaMarcus Russell (immense physical talents but not polished yet) better draft prospects than Smith.

It never fails. Every year one player's flaw takes on a whole new level of ridiculous importance. Last year, Vince Young annihilated virtually every defense in college football, but his Wonderlic test all of a sudden became stupidly significant.

This year, it's Smith's height. The critics act like an ewok is trying to become an NFL starter. On the other side of it, Quinn's coach and his offensive system are already the most overrated traits of any prospect. I'm not trying to take anything away from Quinn, who put up the numbers to justify his being the No. 1 pick in April, but there were very few games in which his presence alone was responsible for the Irish's winning. You never got the feeling he won the game. Besides, Quinn's most defining win this season was a comeback against a bad Michigan State team. Notre Dame hasn't beaten a top-10 team since Charlie Weis arrived in South Bend. Quinn has yet to win a bowl game and he perennially gets served up by rival USC. But there is your Maxwell Award winner for the best player in college football.

Meanwhile, there were at least half a dozen games in which Smith was the most powerful force on the field. Every Michigan game. The Penn State and Texas games this year. Iowa -- this year and last year. And, of course, Notre Dame in the 2006 Fiesta Bowl.

Against Michigan, the best defense that both Quinn and Smith faced, Quinn threw for 234 yards and three touchdowns. Smith bombed them for 316 yards and four scores. Quinn's 4-inch advantage over Smith couldn't be more overestimated.

Everything about Smith screams he is the wrong player to overlook. Yet that is exactly what will happen in April even though he had a college career that was better than one of the most glorified quarterbacks in recent memory.

But in the NFL, measurements are more valued than film. Stopwatches are trusted more than instinct.

At least there is one good thing that comes from Smith's not being a top-five pick. He's less likely to be drafted by the Detroit Lions.

Who did he lose to his sophomore season in a bowl game? Oh yea, the Oregon State Beavers...

Brady Quinn 17 of 29, for 214 yards, 2 TDs, and 1 INT... that's not a real bad game... unfortunately it wasn't enough to beat...

Derek Anderson 28 of 45, for 358 yards, 4 TDs, and 0 INTs...


<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So see, we don't need Quinn or Smith... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Jemele Hill?

Oh that's right. He was that great NFL talent evaluater from,from??????

Just another know nothing hack beat writer without a clue. But hey,he wrote it so it must be true.

And you're right DC,since Anderson beat Vick heads up in a bowl game,what the heck do we need another QB for?

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Wow, what a horrible article, I cant believe that was on ESPN.com.




Its not a requirement, but no one had ever seen a QB with speed like that. He was a Rb who had a cannon for an arm, he was a freak.



Why? He was a freak, that gets guys drafted all the time. Doesnt mean its correct, but it happens.



Didnt matter, see above.



Well, height is a factor unfortunately, I think it was Pit or maybe DC who provided a list of the QB's 6'2" and under compared to over. There were quite a few starting in the NFL but only Brees and Vick were worth much. Like it or not, height is an issue.



I dont see the point in that? It was a down year for QB's in the draft, awesome point. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />





Umm yeah, probably, but what does that have to do with Troy Smith? <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />



Yes we get it, Brees is amazing and he is a shrimp, he overcame the odds, its not impossible to suceed in the NFL if you are 6'0". Im going to give him yet another <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />



He might very well be, no one knows yet.



Only thing of value that the guy said was bringing up his big game value. And it is important, but there are many guys who had that and were also a bust.

Fact is know one knows, and for the Browns, that big game experience wont do anything for us when he is lying on his backside because our O-line and or running game sucks.

I guess Troy Smith has to be pleased that Brees is lighting it up like he is... otherwise we'd have to compare him to ... who?

Doug Flutie?
<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Im sure they would find something.

[color:"white"] Is it the history of Heisman winners to be drafted high in the first round? Are there any past winners who were not drafted in the first? [/color]

Yes, i dont have a list, but i know that just because you win the heisman, does not mean you are a first round draft choice. I think Wurfell went in the 6th.

Nothing against OSU, but if we draft Troy Smith in the 1st four or five rounds, I'll become ill.

I have to play devil's advocate with you here, 2119. This should not be construed with an endorsement for Smith, just trying to give a fair argument to a couple of your statements:

The Height Thing: is the over compared to under skewed because fewer short QBs are given the chance? Has Vick or Brees had trouble getting the ball past the line of scrimage (that's not a loaded question, I just don't know if they have or not). Could it be that the short kids that are athletic generally get sent to play RB or DB in high school, so the pool of shorter QBs is smaller? Anyway, just trying to say it might not be so cut-and-dry. I figure for every short QB who turns out to not make it, there are dozens of Tim Couches. (It still hurts to utter that name) <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Next, Vick has speed, and that is what got him drafted, but the NFL can contain speed. Elusiveness helps, but you can't rely on it exclusively. I think having a pocket pressence (which Vick is sorely lacking) with the elusiveness can combine for hiding the inadequacies of your offensive line.

One other point that was made about Smith farther up was that he has never really been in a pressure situation to come from behind (paraphrased). Look at OSU-Mich 2005. OSU was behind at the end of the game, in Ann Arbor, and Troy didn't look anxious or pressured. He just spread the ball around and marched right down the field. He looked so confident that at that moment, I knew he was going to own CFB this year.

All that said, if our lines were in better shape (both sides), I would be all for taking Troy. I think he will be a star. He just has "it," as cliched as that is, but he wins, he has the physical tools, he has the skills.

The one thing that scares me with players like this is you draft to fill a need, and find out in three years you passed on one of the best players in that position ever, like LT - not saying Troy is that, but you never know when you pass one of these guys over who just seems to have a little extra spark in his ass.

Good post.

I think the biggest thing is the "it" factor. And this is not a knock on Troy either...

Its not a measurable statistic though, it leaves too much open and that along with Troy's the other knocks on Troy, teams arent giong to take that multi million dollar risk just because he has "it"

And why draft Troy Smith for the "it" when you can get "it" on eBay? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Because the amount of "it" we need costs more on eBay than we have under the cap. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> So very true.

Unless he happens to agree with you, then he is a respectable evaluator with a keen eye for talent.

While I have stated before that I am not sold on drafting Smith, I TRULY enjoy the angst that even bringing up his name is causing some of you.

I mean, you would think this guy endorsed GWB for president.

For that, I will share with you all a picture I saw in email today.......you may have seen it before, but it made me laugh.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1379/troync8.jpg <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Angst?
Try humor.

Drafting a sub six foot tall QB with a top 10 pick is humor. Nothing to raise any "angst". I get a laugh at the very thought of it!

So you read it any way you wish. Writers,all of them,write to be successfull,not to "inspire and inform". Anything contraversial to sale papers,get hits an a web site,or whatever is their goal. To "pander" to people to get readership also to get noteriaty.

You got an article that fed a desire. An article to try to legitimize a move most NFL talent evaluaters would get a nice chuckle out of.

Hitler wrote a book too. I guess since he wrote it,it must carry some validity huh?

LMFAO
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