DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 2007 Heisman Trophy winner Troy Smith quarterback Ohio State University

You could bring up drafting any qb and I'd have angst over it this year...

Who can we get rid of if we have to trade up to get him? <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

plenty...

i don't think gino torretta was drafted at all... eric crouch was definitely not a first round pick, i'm not sure if he was even first day...

i just don't get the height thing... troy is currently throwing over taller lineman than the browns have...

i mean, if you just don't think he's that great of a quarterback, i can attest to that, to each his own opinion... but the height thing is pretty lame... considering what i said about his current lineman, who are all monsters...

I'd say we could give Cutt up for him.

In the immortal words of Billy Preston................................"Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'"

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Shifting gears, but I'm sure they would tell me it goes in this thread,....Troy cam home without the Trophy today. Love the effort by Homeland Security, but JC, this is the Heisman winner on your plane, why can't you sit there with the thing on your lap. If I had known this, I would have volunteered to drive over there and deliver it safely home. Now it's in the hands of the USPS. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

I mention this in passing, as I had the privilege of shining the inscription plate on Johnny Lattner's HT last month. The Trophy has a busted finger off the stiffarm hand, broken during "a shipment." No way to handle something that cherished. Bronze is fragile. And now there is no guarantee Troy can have it with him when he visits at Cleveland Glenville High tomorrow,.... <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> .

Problem is everyone is still hungover from the Couch debacle. The fact that we wasted a #1 overall pick on a bum has scared off many people from thinking a QB will help us. Many will take the "We need everything in place before drafting a QB" scenario.

While I don't disagree with that philosophy, given our situation, it would set us back for YEARS. You need a good QB to be consistent playoff contenders or around that mediocre level, nowhere near disasterous.

Everyone points to Trent Dilfer's Superbowl year, the Steelers last year and the 2002 Bucs to show that you don't need a QB to win a Superbowl. Here's variables that few one talks about...

-Dilfer's Superbowl year was a record-setting defense, a once in a lifetime opportunity.

-Jon Gruden had Bill Callahan by the balls. Gruden came from the Raiders a year before and knew EVERYTHING about their system and their players. Callahan didn't change a thing, Gruden schemed for them PERFECTLY. The Bucs knew more about the Raiders than the Raiders knew about the Bucs, and Gruden was the better coach (Callahan was fired the next year since he was a joke).

-Big Ben WAS an amazing QB before his motorcycle accident. I honestly doubt he'll ever get to that level again because something tells me a couple screws are loose in his brain and his peripheral vision is [censored]. Yes, he only threw 15-20 times a game, but he was damn good doing it. Then in the playoffs he threw it all over the place and was successful (minus the Superbowl).

Otherwise, the past Superbowl winning QB's were Kurt Warner and a man named Brady (who, ya know, led two gamewinning drives, cuz he has "it").

We cannot expect to build up a solid base, then take the next step by adding a QB in the draft. Adding a QB after building up a solid base would set us back a year or two. Might as well take our medicine now.

You have no frickin' clue if a rookie "would have been a bumb" if he hadn't took so much abuse during his first couple of seasons.

That's been the problem and continues to be the damn problem here! NO ROOKIE has the time to develop and have any confidence when he's getting his arse handed to him on a plate and his jersey could be a commercial for Tide laundry detergent!

That's why picking a first round QB is a moronic thing to even discuss before we actually get a consistant OL. Some people can't learn a damn thing from history. We've never had a FO build a legitimate OL since we came back in 99.

But every QB and RB are bumbs? Some people never learn sqwaut! Go ahead and draft Troy with this OL. Then he'll be the next bumb. Because without an OL? They're all bumbs.

This is why I don't want to take him,.....I fear for his safety.

People just seem to forget everything that's happenned it seems. They still blame the QB's,RB's and everyone under the sun,accept the fact we've never had a good OL. The closest we ever came,we actually backed our way into the playoffs.

Garcia doesn't suck,look how he's performing in Philly. Not a superstar,but a very adequate QB. But when he was here,people wanted to tar and feather him. Why? No frickin' OL! Same story. I get tired of everyone dissin' every player we have and thinking the next "future superstar" is some majic bullet. And that Couch and Garcia were nothing but bumbs.

A rookie needs an environment where he can develop and grow. Not run for his life and be pressured and beat to death. It's not rocket science but freom the sounds of it,you'd think it is. We have to create the environment that gives a top rated QB pick the best option to learn,flourish and grow,before we bring him in here and destroy his future.

JMHO

OL, OL, OL,... !!! Droughn's last year was a fluke,...I mean you gotta have a RB go for 1,000 at least every 20 years; it's only football nature.

I wish Troy could never graduate,....I certainly don't wish for him to be the next TC.

Tim Couch was a chump, plain and simple. Never had the demeanor of a winner. Even when he had a running game in '02 he didn't play well.

Is O-line our main problem? YES! BUT I was listening to Reggie Rucker on Triv today and he put it best: without a good QB, you're not gonna consistently win.

You CANNOT throw any bum back there, give him protection and a running game and expect him to succeed. So many people on this board have that magical vision dancing in their heads that it wasn't Big Ben that won p*ttsburgh so many games, but it was their O-line and running game, or have a Trent Dilfer "game manager" story in their heads.

Tommy Maddox disproves that theory.

I don't want a "game manager" or a "QB who's not always pretty and isn't always gonna play well, but with a solid base we can make the playoffs." We NEED another Carson Palmer-esque QB to go toe to toe with Palmer twice a year.

There's a reason the Ravens are doing better with Steve McNair than they ever did with Kyle Boller, and it's not the D since it was always a solid D.

and i'm still trying to figure out how drafting a quarterback in the first round is automatically not building through an offensive line...

you don't need to use your first pick on a lineman, especially if it's top 5... too much talent, that's why i still stand by the edwards pick, as well as the winslow pick...

i would like to see this team do more in rounds 2-4, as far as the line goes, they don't need to be great, but they need to be better than what we have now...

and i'd like to try and see if they can group a few guys together, to start that buliding...

everyone is against free agency, but if you do that wisely, it's just the same... some of the guys we've brought into here weren't that great to begin with... i was never huge on the shaffer signing, or the andruzzi signing..

if you're going to address your line through free agency, at least do it the right way...

lecharles bentley was the one move that we all did like, because the guy is good...

and while i'm with everyone else in that you have to load up on o and d lines... ignoring everything else but those is just as bad as ignoring it...

cornerbacks are also a problem with this team, tons of potential, but guys who just straight up can't stay on the field...

As per usual,we'll never know what Tim Couch might have been. We just know he was beaten down like a red headed step child to the point he was afraid of his own shadow.

And that's all we'll ever know. And repeating that process is a moronic follow-up. I saw agame when we were down 21-0 and he brought us back to win. So the potential was there. But when you get no protection and have no running game,you don't develop.

You cqn say what you want,but it just goes to show you wish to do the exact same things just as much as all the people who have been fired around here since 99.And your line of thinking has gotten us to where we are today,nowhere.

Thanks for the insight.

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Washington wins the Superbowl. QB? Doug Williams
Baltimore wins Super Bowl. QB Trent Dilfer
Chicago wins Super Bowl QB McMahon
Chicago 10-2 Grossman?

It's a team sport. Get a clue.
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So now you want Brady Quinn ? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Sure sounds like it,doesn't it?
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Can he run block?
Or play LT?

Well I think drafting a QB to come in here and get his head kicked in, and then everyone calling him a bum and booing him off the feild would set us back even farther.



Dilfer still had to not turn the ball over and take advantage of the situations that defense put him in.



Ok.....what about all the other teams they played in the playoffs to get to the Superbowl? Did Gruden know more about them then they knew about themselves?


Amazing??? I wouldn't call losing every game you had to throw 20 times or more Amazing. Let's face it, the team got hot at the end of the year and most of it had to do with a dominate running game and the "Gadget" play to put teams away. Granted Big Ben did make a few great plays, but I wouldn't say his play was Amazing.



Well I'm under the impression that building up a solid base and bringing in a QB would help protect him and help minimize the pressure placed on him to win a game and allow the offense to gel together over an entire year instead of having QB contraversies.

You mentioned the Tommy Maddox story. Well, Pittsburg was still a playoff contending team with Tommy Maddox. All the while they built up a solid O-line and D-line and then they drafted "Big Ben".

Quit trying to confuse him with the facts.
Gee whiz man.
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That's why you draft O-line in the 2nd round.

QB is one of our needs whether anyone wants to admit it or not, unless Anderson tears it up the next 3 games and we're comfortable going into next season with Anderson starting.

We're NOT comfortable with Charlie Frye. There's too much bad that I've seen that overshadows his good qualities.

For the Garcia argument: Garcia's also playing in an offensive system that plays to his strengths. He was a WCO QB. We see that in Philly right now.

p*ttsburgh was 6-10 when the "real Tommy Maddox" stood up. He was not the flash in the pan 2002 version. The '03 Maddox was dreadful, the '04 version even worse, the '05 version was so bad his lawn was set on fire. Remember when they stumbled, lost to the Jags and R*vens when Maddox was QB? Ben made that offense click. Charlie Frye couldn't do that.

And you think a 2nd round O-lineman is going to shore up this line. Not to mention we need to draft D-line also because TW, AM and OR arn't spring chickens.

If you really believe drafting Troy Smith and then 2nd round on O-line will vault this team into playoff contention then I am grateful that you are not running our draft this year. Savage knows what this team needs and read between the lines on his speaches. He is looking O-line in the first and if one is not availible he will draft D-line. If you have visions of Troy Smith comming here then your going to be let down on Draft day. We won't take him in the first round and teams like Baltimore, Chicago and Tampa Bay will take a hard look at him when they are drafting. Brady Quinn is going to be a Raider and that's that.

Fact is Ammo, you make all the excuses in the world for why a team won a Superbowl with and average QB, but you can't hide the fact all of those teams had great Lines on both sides of the ball.

Well have fun discussing this further I am done, you have your opinion and your entitled to it, and I'm not an NFL GM so I'm not an expert either, but I look at other teams and how they were built, and it was done with the trenches.

And the wonder boy Brees took how many years to develop? How about Favre?

You'd have kicked them to the curb long before they ever developed according to "you not being comfortable with Charlie".

I don't know who you mean by "WE" unless somebody made you their spokesman? You've just decided you want Troy and you'll do whatever you think will work to sale that idea.

Well,good luck with that.
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I have long defended Tim Couch... and this is BS... "even when we had a running game in '02"? as a team we rushed for 1600+ yards which ranked us 23rd in the NFL... 24th in YPC and 24th in rushing TDs... now since we were USED to being 31 or 32 in those categories, it may have SEEMED like we had a running game because we had improved some, but in reality it was still pretty putrid....

Tim Couch had all the fire and drive needed to play QB in the NFL. Why do you think he got SOOOO upset when we booed him.

He was giving all he had to this organization that was giving NOTHING but greif in return. He was hurt just about the whole time he was here (his whole career)


Point it, it's not Tim Couch's fault that he got sacked a million friggin times. Keep a QB on his feet, and watch him flourish.

Say what you will about TC, but I will NOT tolerate someone saying he didn't "have it" or whatever, because he did. He was a tough kid with a good arm and good accuracy. If he had Braylon and Kellen, we would be looking pretty good.


Our best weapon was KEVIN FRIGGIN JOHNSON, who can't even make a roster now. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Oh man, you just made my day. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Dude go away...no one asked you.

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Oh man, thats good stuff. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and I dont think anyone 'asked" you either.


<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

I wasn't calling someone out an laughin at them. You are, it shows your class.

You both suck....





Just like Troy Smith... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Im not calling you out, I was thanking you, that was classic. Good stuff.

Yep, my point is proven.

www.wkyc.com

He should be going on soon....

Ginn Sr. on right now at the press conference.

Ginn Sr. is letting out more Wooooooooo's than Ric Flair.

Pissing match with BpGdawg!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

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I think all you're doing is helping to prove our point. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

You cite Ben Roethleisburger and Steve McNair as examples of how a QB can make a difference. Well, that may be true but those teams needed ONE piece, not 10-12. The only thing those teams were missing was a QB that wouldn't LOSE them the game. Nothing that either of these QB's (McNair and Big Ben) have done has been spectacular, they've just been steady. They also went to teams with very good offensive lines, a dominant running game and oustanding defenses........we don't even posess one of those three things.

So Kyle Boller didn'y have it........I agree but atleast he got a FAIR SHAKE. He was on a team with a pro bowl RB, pro bowl LT and pro bowl TE........there were no excuses or weaknesses to hinder his growth or performance. Couch was never afforded that opportunity and Charlie may never be affored it either.........a QB isn't the answer when we have 15 other question marks......untill everyone sees that we'll continue to struggle.

Big day for Troy today, Congrats.


http://www.newsnet5.com/news/10528083/detail.html


CLEVELAND -- There were numerous speakers who showed up Wednesday afternoon to provide a few words about the accomplishments of Glenville High School graduate and The Ohio State University quarterback Troy Smith.

For the most part, the speakers spoke about Smith's character, leadership skills, humility, athleticism and academic achievement.

Smith was presented with proclamations and Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson presented the 2006 Heisman Trophy winner with a key to the city.

But two tributes during the ceremony were especially moving and emotional for Smith and the crowd. Those tributes came from Ted Ginn Sr. and his best friend, Bashir Jones.

Ginn presented Smith with a proclamation that he said describes a true Tarblooder, Smith. But Smith was brought to tears when Ginn presented him with the framed No. 7 Glenville jersey that Smith wore while playing at Glenville.

Jones, who talked about his best friend with love and admiration, said when he and Smith were in the seventh grade, Smith said he was going to play for the NFL.

"I believed him," Jones said, adding that he talked of becoming a poet or movie star at that age.

In one of the most moving tributes, Jones recited a poem that described his best friend as a rose that grew in the cement.


Before the tribute was over Smith told the audience filled with students, faculty and parents that they should view adversity as a way to build character.
Copyright 2006 by NewsNet5. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

I gotta jump in on this to agree; we have so many problems that it makes it impossible to pinpoint whether this guy or that guy could have or should have gotten it done at almost any stinkin' position on the roster right now except for the two kickers,....

What a wuss... he's the next Tim Couch. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Hey! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Even if that were the care, crucify him for being a beast. Against Michigan and Michgan State that year they were down two scores and ended up winning actually.

Eric Crouch won the Heisman and I don't think is even in the league anymore. Also Jason White from Oklahomo, Danny Wuerful I don't think either, and uhh, Chris Weinke.