DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mr. Kizer

Maybe Hue thinks we'll get a synergistic effect by doing both.

Are they bringing a chair out on the field?

Chair is reporting as an eligible receiver.

To Hue's credit, he made a smart decision to end his mistake rather than continuing it just to save face. I'm somewhat troubled that Hue actually seemed to believe that Kevin Hogan had a future and gave us the best chance to win, but I'll consider it a positive it only took a week to come to his senses.

I'm a little worried about any negative trade off. I don't think there is much a quarterback can learn on the sidelines over the course of a single week, but he did learn that Hue's faith in him has faltered, and that's a destructive message to send a young quarterback - this is particularly true when Hue hasn't benched anyone else for poor play.

It remains to be seen if Kizer can come back and play loose and relaxed. Hue needs to stop with the perpetual benching if that's ever going to happen, otherwise any chance Kizer has of finding rhythm is never going to arrive.

I'm glad Kizer is back, however. The kid needs an opportunity to get it right.

General reply/ We all assume Hue is making the decisions. Or maybe going to Hogan was a f/u to Sashi?
Maybe Hue was going to start Brock O. so Sashi cut him? Hue doesn't seem concerned about his job like a paid puppet. All we know is this sucks.

We are positioning for Darnold.

For those of you stuck on Hue sitting Kizer one week to learn from a different field of view.. I think it was less about that, and more about Hue wanting to see what Hogan could do when given the chance. Hogan did zilch, so now back to Kizer.

I think some of you are making it a lot more complicated than it really is.

I think it's more about Hogan being injured (ribs). Then Hue saying "whelp Hogan sucked, back to kizer."
I think if Hogan is healthy he'd be starting this week.

I think it’s more about Hogan sucking than his being injured since he played until the end of the game.

BEREA, Ohio -- DeShone Kizer's benching lasted about as long as a toddler time-out in preschool, but it lit a fire under him just the same.

"It definitely sparked my competitive juices,'' Kizer said Wednesday after being reinstated as the starter for Sunday's game against the Titans. "It was definitely important for me throughout the week to make sure that I'm doing extra. In this league, you gotta talk less and do more. We gotta make sure we're out there grinding the way we should be."

Kizer didn't let the benching shake his confidence.

DeShone Kizer looks to be Browns QB for years to come

"I stayed on my same path and I trusted the process and I knew there was going to be another opportunity for me to potentially play this year. Obviously it came sooner than most expected,'' he said.

Ideally, Kizer would've stayed on the bench for three games until the bye week, but Kevin Hogan threw three first-half interceptions during Sunday's 33-17 loss to the Texans. If Jackson's going to play a young, struggling quarterback, it might as well be the leading candidate for longterm starter.

Hogan is also struggling with a rib injury, and will be inactive while Cody Kessler serves as the backup.

"I didn't know how long it was going to take (for Kizer to return). I just know (Kizer) was going to play again. ... He's playing this week and I'm looking forward to watching him play.''


Jackson will likely try to ride it out with Kizer as long as he can. The Browns need to know if he can be their man before they head into the QB-rich 2018 draft.

"I'm not going to say the rest of the season, but I know he's the guy right now,'' said Jackson. "I hope he is. I hope there are no more times we have to take him out and let him reset himself.''

What Browns' DeShone Kizer learned being benched
Still, Jackson has no regrets.

"We're talking about a young quarterback who's 21 years old, whose learning the National Football League," said Jackson. "I thought it was the right thing to do. ... I think we'll be better for it and I think he'll be better for it and hopefully we'll see the growth."

Jackson put all of Kizer's mistakes on a DVD, including his nine interceptions -- four in the red zone -- to help him correct his mistakes.

"I remember the conversation we had in my office about it and then watching him be so into it on the sideline this past week,'' said Jackson. "He was able to see where I was coming from.''

Trying to carry the NFL's youngest team is a tall order for a rookie quarterback who started only two seasons at Notre Dame. Trying to turn around a 1-21 team is an enormous burden.

"That's why in my opinion, it's the greatest job on earth and it's also the most difficult job on earth,'' said Kizer. "This opportunity right now in front of me is the best opportunity you can possibly have. To walk into a team who just won the Super Bowl and undefeated would be a completely different situation, you'd be able to learn in a different way. But for me, this is the best opportunity for me to learn about myself, learn about my teammates and what it takes to win in this game."

Despite being last or second-last in the NFL in 10 of 11 QB categories, Kizer believes he can turn things around by eliminating the interceptions. He leads the NFL with nine.

"We lost three games by three points,'' Kizer said. "(If they don't) turn the ball over in the red zone, those would be three wins and we'd be right on the path we want to be heading. Our goals are still there. We have another half of division play that we have to go out and execute on.

"We have quite a few games in front of us we can go out and win. It's about treating ... each week as one of its own and make sure we're grinding as hard as we can to make sure we're successful that week."

He's aware Oakland's Derek Carr went 0-10 as a rookie before turning it around his second year.

"For me, 0-10 and 5-5 in this league are very close to each other," he said. "I'm trying to make sure that we can do whatever we can to realize those things that are stopping us from being 3-3 ... and focus in on them. Obviously it's turnovers in the red zone, it's lulls at the beginning of games.''

Jackson acknowledged he's tried to make Kizer as comfortable as possible in the offense. Heading into the Titans game, he's last in completion percentage at 50.9 and QB rating at 49.5.


"You want to have easy throws," Jackson said. "Our goal is to be quarterback-friendly and have him go out and feel really good about what he's doing and you look up and they're 13-of-14 and however many yards and a touchdown or two.

"That's the goal. We just haven't been able to pull it off yet. So we've just got to keep working at it."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/deshone_kizer_returns_from_ben.html

If Kizer "gets it" between the ears, learns to put touch on the ball when needed. sees the field better, etc etc...He has the arm talent and size to be one of the better QB's in the league...

he just won't learn it by sitting a week...

if we just hold his feet to the fire the rest of the year and he pulls a Goff or Carr...I wouldn't complain...I'll just **B** every week til the off season lol

"Jackson put all of Kizer's mistakes on a DVD, including his nine interceptions -- four in the red zone -- to help him correct his mistakes."

I like that Hue did that. Not to put Kizer down, but to put a spot light on Kizer's errors. Hopefully that helped Kizer some, so he can start working on correcting those things.

101...Agree, allowing Kizer to watch his own mistakes is a great idea. Kizer can rerun those mistakes as many times as he needs, to better understand what he did wrong.

...another teaching tool.

I'd put good money on Kizer watched that DVD more than once

Sounds like we're going vanilla O, that might help.

run it, try to use short/intermediate more, use some roll outs more effectively. Don't make it complicated

I'd put more money that it was an incredibly LONG in duration too hahaha. Many mistakes to cover. Oh well, one week sitting though, dang, we're heading to the SB now hahahaha

What have we done that is so complicated? I think we have asked our qbs to make simpler reads, not more difficult ones. There is a reason we don't throw over the middle much.

Makes sense. But is there a reason why we do not defend the throw over the middle?

Gary Barnidge:

- 2015 Targeted 123, 1043 yds, 79 completions, 9 TD's
- 2016 Targeted 81, 612 yds, 55 completions, 2 TD's

Speaks for itself...

Tyler Eifert in 2015?

Injured maybe like every other year?

I hope Hue and staff do some self-scouting and look at what they're doing offensively and in the passing game specifically.

I also think Hue should think about letting Al Saunders call the plays if the offense continues this current level of anemic production.

After Hogan moved the ball well in the clean-up effort when Kizer was struggling and was benched vs the Jets I thought the offensive issues were more on Kizer then I realized. But after the Texan's game I think that half was an aberration.

I like Hue and absolutely 100% think he should be retained.
^^I'm adding the above caveat to be clear that I'm writing this opinion from a team improvement standpoint and not a tear it down standpoint.

If not for ribs, we might have Hogan. If the bench helped Kizer so much in one game, then leave him there for bonus better time. Like until bye.

Not sure what is next, but if Hue calls plays like he has, I expect a same outcome.

Speaks for itself?

I can't figure out what it speaks to and why you posted it.

The only thing I can figure is that it is somehow related to many of your other recent posts in where you are trying to defend the FO by bashing Hue?

So, does the "speak to itself" thing mean it's Hue's fault?

Btw---------why didn't you post Barnidge's numbers from other years? Didn't they speak of the same thing? LOL

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/920121346536943617

Great read there, nice eye opening info. I would always assume the middle of the field would be the most thrown. As I would assume its easier to throw accurately in front of you....versus to the left or right of you. Then again LBs scavenge that area normally, and safeties on top of them.

Thanks. Been claiming this for awhile, that we do not use routes regularly that other NFL teams make money on. Avoid the middle. Cross, dig, slant should help some lame receivers. We refuse to use these.

Throwing Hue's sideline pattern deep helps the D who have sideline as an extra defender. TE seam, look in, these are often there. Our selection sucks and it helps the defense. We are better than this if use stop doing and repeating some of the predictable crappy calls that are hurting us.

PS Thanks for this. I would risk another loss trying to do some of this that beat us. The stats for Packers & Falcons & several others really use these well. Two yard sidewinder check downs hurt us and kill drives. Roll him.

This is amongst my favourite lines from Kizer.

Six of Kizer's interceptions have come inside the red zone. Seven of nine have come inside opposition territory.

Kizer has actually moved the ball quite well but has made mistakes in the moments where mistakes just cannot be made. Not all of it is his fault, either, as three interceptions have come off the receivers hands, two of which were huge first downs. That's a large part of why a singular aspect of Kizer's play makes up for his worst moments;

Deshone Kizer on 3rd down: 19/41 (46%) for 238 yards, 0 touchdowns to 4 interceptions, 25.3 passer rating.

In fact, to pinpoint it even further, Kizer on 3rd down of a distance between 3-7 to the down: 2/10 (20%) for 15 yards, 0 touchdowns, 3 interceptions, 0 passer rating.

Here is another interesting note: Kizer on 2nd and 11+ is: 4/12 (33.3%) for 13 yards, 0 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 2.8 passer rating.

This, to me, highlights issues his issues with forcing passes and the game being a little too quick for him right now. As I've said, and will continue to say, I don't think that's the end of the world and it reminds me a lot of what I saw from Jared Goff as a rookie - In fact, Goff had similar issues of being much more consistently bad in similar situations (Goff, for example, had a passer rating in the 3rd and 3/7 category of 43.)

The big trade off was Kizer moves the ball better than Goff did, but makes more mistakes. Kizer has 977 yards in 4 1/2 games, Goff had 1,105 yards in 7 games (over 20 attempts in all). Our frustration is Kizer making too many mistakes, Rams frustration was Goff making a lot of mistakes and not moving the ball.

Evidently, it boils down to a hilariously simple logic: Rookies play poorly in bad situations.

If something goes wrong on first down, a penalty or a sack, Kizer seems to quickly make a mistake trying to gain those yards back to avoid a 3rd and long. In 3rd down situations, Kizer tends to make mistakes trying to convert.

If Kizer can work to correct those issues, his game will turn around pretty quickly. As he correctly stated, we've put ourselves in winning situations, as much as it can seem otherwise, but we haven't been able to make the play that turns a winning situation in to a win.

My big advice to Kizer, if I was a coach, would be simply dipping in to the platitudes: Take the checkdown or throw it away, live to fight another day, we'll get them next time. That's a platitude because Kizer is doing what a lot of young players do: Snowballing one mistake with another when his back is against the wall.

I don't entirely blame him for some of the struggles. Another thing important to remember is that Kizer's stat line when we're losing by more than nine points is his worst: 26/55 (47.3%, down from 64.3% otherwise) for 275 yards (5.00 average, down from 9.11 otherwise) for 1 touchdown to 5 interceptions, 30 passer rating (down 24 points).

In some ways, I really admire it. We've got a 21 year old developmental quarterback who inherited a 1-15 team with substandard receivers. He's put it all on his back with a gunslinger mentality and hasn't once shied away from leaving it all out on the field. However admirable that may be, I do hope in his return he starts to play things a little more smart. Give me desperation mistakes in the 4th Q with it all on the line, but don't rush trying to get it all back and put the game out of reach in the process.

I have high hopes for Kizer coming back. The week off might have done him the world of good, giving him a moment to catch his breath and slow things down. I enjoyed watching his presser this week, he's one of those really nice kids you want to see do well, and beating up on the Titans would go down a treat.

Hue is just game planning this to surprise Pittsburgh in game two with 80% over the middle passes and an upset victory to save his job. We beat Pitt and all is forgiven. lol

Good stuff. Thanks.

I agree, we don't use the TE enough on traditional TE routes.

A TE should be a young QB's best friend. With the two that we have, it should almost always be a mismatch. It does seem that Hue's O isn't TE friendly.

Exactly the point that I have been trying to make. Our TE is under-utilized...

What does Barnidge have to do with us defending the throw over the middle? Did he play against us in 2015 and 2016?

You never learn.

Nothing, of course. Merely was a spot to post...

Tyler Eifert ... nuff said!!!!

u guys are getting ridicoulous ...

U wanna say our TE’s are underutilized ... no problem,go for it .. once u say Hue’s O is not TE friendly, u lose ALL CREDIBILITY ... we have NO CLUE WHY ... maybe its because there our best two recievers and teams are taking them away ... I HAVE NO CLUE ... BUT NEITHER DO U ...



Hue’s becoming the Donald Trump of the Cleveland Browns ... EVERYTHINGS HIS FAULT!!!!

I'm not bashing Hue at all. In fact, I have said previously that I like him as a Head Coach; his play calling (as I pointed out) perhaps not so much. There is way too much testosterone on here lately...

Sorry bro ..

I just took it out on U ..

This is very hard on all of us .. and i’m Really getting sick of all the finger pointing at anyone but Haslam ...

Guys are whining the FO blew the last two drafts all ready ... WE HAVE NO CLUE YET ... crap .. i know we didn’t make all the picks we had coming last year .... we may not have even made all the picks from their first draft if we have any picks left from the 2 first rounds of thier first draft ...

There just frustrated .. i know ... but its hard ... maybe i need a break from the board ...

Same with Hue ... hes made mistakes ... but sheesh ...

Let me end this apology/rant now ...

Sorry bro ... HOPEFULLY it don’t happen again ... *LOL* ...

No apology necessary, Diam. We all want the same thing; we simply differ on how to get there...