DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns begin reaching out to football executives

Another bingo....

Yet when reporters do the same exact thing with a positive slant, posters don't put them down. Funny how that works isn't it? lmao

Are you kidding me?

How about almost everything that comes from ClevelandBrowns.com? That gets bashed ALL the time on here.

"Homer articles" rings a bell among many other terms.

Winning is a goal of the front office, but they have to balance present and future.

Belichick is a master of this. He trades veteran players that would help the team win in the present all the time for the sake of the future.

I guess I just don't see where there is a need for that balance with our team right now. We're not bumping up against the cap, Haden was at least serviceable, we were already on the hook for Brock's contract. We're not in a position where we HAVE to make those tough decisions... so why are we making those those tough decisions?

I expect that this is not easy to achieve or for the fans to fully appreciate, but if you want long term success, it is mandatory. While our FO may have made (in our view) a few apparent mistakes, I'm certain that those moves (cuts, trades, etc...) were made with the longer goals in mind...

Not funny; merely easier to digest...

Vers! Does the "three full years" in your sig include the ST's? That has gone on too long already. Just wanted verification and clarification. But it is a point worth making. But Hue could use some re-direction and an OC who will attack better. Our production needs to skyrocket.

Paul DePodesta's hands are all over this. He is a systems thinker. You do everything the same every time no matter the situation. If you would cut Joe Haden when you are coming off a Super Bowl win, you cut Joe Haden when you are coming off a 1-15 season. You don't let outside noise effect your decision making. It's why the 76ers fans say "Trust the process." If you have the right process, eventually the good results will come.

A more simplistic example of this is in baseball. A pitcher can make a great pitch, but the hitter hits a homerun. He can also make a horrible pitch and get a pop up to the catcher. While the result of the horrible pitch is better, the pitcher would rather throw the great pitch all the time because it will most likely result in the better outcome.

Whether you think the front office is making the right decisions is a different question entirely.

(Reminder: Sam Hinkie, the GM of the 76ers, was fired before he could see the end results of his work.)

Yes, our brilliant FO cut a lot of good special team's players and kept their own guys.

I also do not think play calling is the problem.

I think the problem is a lack of experience and/or talent.

I find it amazing that people are questioning Hue and giving the FO a pass. Look at the last dozen or so posts. A lot of excuses and justifications. Yet, these same posters have no problem questioning Hue.

I call BS!

And yet, plenty of other rookies perform just fine so the lack of experience argument rings a bit hollow as well. Hue is the one coaching them up during the season, not the FO. Finding signs of improvement has been hard to do.

I'm not giving the FO a pass, but most of their work goes into the draft/trades. It plays in to Hue's trouble no doubt, but he's more directly involved right now with the continued mess we're seeing on the field, so he's getting the attention.

I'm not busting out the pitch fork, but I feel like he can do better.

It's also not entirely fair to blame the (current) FO for the lack of talent. The team lacked talent when they got here, and they have added some. Our DBs are somewhat an abomination, but they did try to address it. It's hard to account for a training camp kneecap injury. Broken hands are tough to predict for WRs as well.

I still think they must have built the stadium/facility on an Indian graveyard, too close to some unshielded power lines, Art Modell actually built a secret factory of sadness when he left, or something.

i am all for this can somebody fire haslam

I have a question, for anyone who cares to answer it:

What is a successful draft for an NFL team? How many starters .... how many primary backups .... how many core special teamers, and conversely, how many guys can you expect who simply cannot play at this level?

This was a complete tear-down. How long does it take to build a team from the ground up? How many guys can a team, realistically, expect to add each and every year, who will contribute at a high level?

I suspect that we will see lights come on sometimes next year, as we add to our WR corps, maybe another QB, a RB, and a couple of CBs, early in the draft. This does not mean that we will be a Super Bowl team, but we should expect less holes following next year's draft/free agency period.

I hate that we are not winning games, but man, we are starting QBs who have never won in the NFL ..... and our 2 starting WRs were lost to injury. People hate to hear "It's a process" .... but it's a process. It cannot happen in a single off-season, or 2. It's like saying that you are going to drive from Maine to LA in 8 hours. It just cannot happen ... at least not realistically. (and unless MPH the whole way)

I am frustrated, but then my realistic side kicks in. Unfortunately, it's hard to know what we have at QB, because of our difficulties at WR. How do you judge Kizer, when we have so many completely inexperienced WR, who may, or may not, be running the right routes, and who may, or may not, be able to get open?

If you guys really want to know a true indicator of whether or not Peyton is coming to Cleveland, someone should do a property records search to see if he is buying up store front for additional Papa Johns franchises. That to me would say he's making a long term commitment.

I hope we bring Manning in to be the leader of the franchise. I get that he has no FO experience, but nobody can deny that he is one of the best if not the best (on the field) football minds in our lifetimes. He very well could be a second coming of Paul Brown type for us.

Good question. I think people expect to much from each draft.

To me, if you can draft 2 players who are good or better and can play for maybe 10 years, and another 2 who can be fairly decent back-up or good special teams players and carve out a 5 year career, that is a good draft.

Is that with a normal draft...or one with the extra high round picks we have/had?

Can you imagine the vendors walking around, yelling out, using the Nationwide jingle, get-your-slice-of-pizza-here.

No-I-can't-imagine-that.

going by that we might have a team in 2010....

Historic Success Chart

The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:

1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)

2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)

5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)

7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20...-draft-by-round

Thought that was an interesting breakdown.

Not sure this is a good idea sashi has put the browns in a position to sign cousins then hold everybody hostage for the highest ranked qb.
To trade for rosen could cost you 6 high draft picks.

This is a hard question to answer because the Browns chose to cut players or let them walk in FA and keep the vast majority of their drafted players.

I guess you could make a claim that they've had two great drafts because so many of them are starters and even more on are still on the roster, but I think the numbers have been skewed by the tear down.




I agree and that is why I don't think we should fire anyone. I think a lot of people might misinterpret my intentions because I am always defending Hue and questioning the FO, but I am only doing that because so many more people are pointing the finger at Hue. I would defend the FO if most were saying that the FO guys were to blame for our record.

I didn't like the initial plan because I think it is hard to endure so many losses. People typically lose their jobs when you lose this many games. However, Haslam signed off on the plan and I think the best course of action is to stick w/it.

Cousins is having a great start to the season, too. The guy has been given a lot of chances to fail, and it just isn't happening.

My only concern is that the 49ers will 100% target Cousins. Kyle Shanahan was the one who demanded he be drafted in Washington, worked closely with him in Washington, and Cousins has watched what Shanahan did with Matt Ryan in going to a Superbowl. The 49ers also have their coach and GM on six year contracts, vowing to stick with them for that long, and they've got the most cap space in the league - narrowly ahead of us, although that's only because of Osweiler.

I would argue we have more talent, and we've got more assets to build upon that talent, but the 49ers can offer him system familiarity, a more desirable location to live (at least in terms of weather), guaranteed front office/coaching staff continuity and as much money as we can.

I don't like our chances in the Cousins sweepstakes. Best chance would be perhaps that Cousins has an ego, and I mean that in the best way. Only the Browns can sell a free agent on, "If you are the quarterback for the Cleveland Browns when it is all turned around, you will be forever be remembered." As frustrated as we are, Hue Jackson is highly respected around the league, we've got a Superbowl winning defensive co-ordinator, a fantastic offensive line and a heap of picks to build around him.

That could be a positive towards keeping the team around a little longer - If everyone is fired, there is 0% Cousins would be willing to sign on the dotted line.

It absolutely amazes me the amount of people who think Hue is doing an awesome job... and that our record is indicative of this lack of talent the front office has assembled or the "mistakes" they've made in cutting/signing players.

The Browns are 0-6 and that does NOT fall solely on the front office. I'm curious as to what Hue has done to instill so much confidence?


I think it's best to realize there should at least be equal blame among all parties. Are we a bad team? Yes. Are we that bad that we should be 0-6? No. Do wins/losses matter? No. Are we trying to lose to get the first pick? No. Do we want to win? Yes! Is Haslam trying to save as much money as he can? No!

We don't need to blow this up. We don't need to fire anyone. And we certainly do NOT need Peyton Manning.

The front office has made mistakes, sure, but Hue hasn't? Give me a break...

This is the absolute weakest schedule we have had since the return. Not only are we winless,we are not the least bit competitive. I like hue n this staff but they have failed misserably.


Fo gave hue 4 bad QBs and no receivers that's on them. It's on hue for not running the damn football.

If this regime wants to survive then they have to avoid the blame game and show they are unified with a common goal. Pointing fingers gets everyone fired.

Yeah as really think of Hue Jackson does not get his team back on track, he will be out after 2017 or earlier even.

j/c

Enough, guys...

Thank you.

First of all, I have never given Hue a free pass and I don't blame the FO for everything.

Secondly, the same suspects are doing what they always do. That's fine. I think anyone who is objective can see right through it.

It is...and it shows that after the 2nd round, teams are throwing darts with only a 40% shot at finding a player. Sure, some of them hit, but then again, the failure rates in even the 2nd round can be pretty high. That is why I think finding a couple of good starters and a couple of fairly decent back-up players in any one draft is a good draft. Even only 1 player can make a draft if the player turns out to be really good.

Indeed, 'peen. Two quality starters and two longer term developmental or backups is a very good draft...

I don't know that it matters. You can buy 1 Powerball ticket, or you can buy 20.

With 20, you increase your chances, but your odds don't change.

Interesting to see such a poor success rate for receivers. I think we'll also see the OL % fall given the commentary about how college spread offenses are not preparing OL for the NFL.

It all goes to show what a crapshoot the draft really is. I think the 2 drafts the FO have had have been decent enough, even good, but we need that and better to overcome years of bad drafting, especially in the first 2 rounds. If just one or a few of Manziel, Richardson, Quinn, Weeden, Gilbert, Taylor, any of Mangini's 2nd rounders would have panned out and still be here, it would have made a tangible difference.

It does matter ... it matters a lot ....

Powerball example isnt very good ... its an apples to oranges comparision ....

In powerball U have the exact same odds on every card no matter how many u buy ...

In rnd 1. It appears to be about a 65% overall rate on picks meeting whatever vague criteria they met ... in rnd 2 it appears to be about a 50% overall chance of hitting the criteria ..

Since the odds of success aren’t the same in each round of the draft the higher the rnd the pick is in the better your odds ... each powerball ticket u buy have the same success rate ...

Did I explain that right? ...

I don't know...you are probably right about powerball example because the odds are based on the number of balls and probablity of all 6(or whatever the number) hitting no matter the number of tickets sold.

So, sure, you are better off with more chances. At least you are getting a few extra chances to luck out.

Based on the numbers in the chart that was posted, it makes me think I would do everything I could to have nothing but 1st and 2nd round chances. Trade a few rounders to get another first rounder and everything else to get a 2nd rounder.

Call it a draft with 3 first round picks and 2 second round picks. I could live with that. Plus, as a fan I wouldn't have to sit around waiting on some stupid 5th round selection. Not to mention we wouldn't have to read posts about how we blew the 6th round pick by not selecting some other player.

Finally u said something in a way i can agree with ... it was bound to happen eventually ..

Just not sure at this point what to do to make it better ...

We had Berry (the young up and comer in my eyes ... hopefully anyhow)

And we added a “senior” guy last year ... not sure exactly what hes doing or where he fits in the org chart ...

I know adding a football guy would make me feel better ... just not sure where he’d fit and if we don’t all ready have enough ...

The only thing i know for sure mac is two fold ...

1. Its way to early to judge this FO and their drafts ...

2. last years draft was very important ( we ended up with 3 first rounders and a 2nd rounder ... ) and this years is just as important ...

They have to draft a qb this year ... they HAVE TOO ... and they will ... with either our 1st or 2nd first round pick ...

Well unless of course we get one in FA or trade for one next year ...

In a way, we have that except if I had to point to a weak link, it would be Andrew Berry. I could be wrong and Berry is great but Sashi does what he wants no matter the input from the others....but I don't think that the case. I am not saying to get rid of Berry. The problem as I see it is he came from being a pro personnel director. That is evaluating guys who are already good enough to make pro rosters. That is different than projecting college players in to pro players.

I like the strategy Depo has us embarked on by adding picks. I like the use of analytics to crunch size, speed, strength numbers by position to find the players who fit the mold, but yeah, you have to have somebody who can spot a "baller" or a "deadbeat".

It's hard to measure competitive spirt and desire. It's just something you have to see and feel.

If I was over the scouts, I'd tell them that when they visited a school, don't tell the coach who you are there to see. Just ask him to give you the names of the 4-5 most competitive players on the team...the guys who don't even like to lose video games.

If your guy isn't named by the coach, cross him off the list. At minumum put a big red flag by his name.